Midsize Sedans 2.0

[Deleted User]

Here is my family's old car.
Here is the jump seat I loved and spent hours in (especially with the 55mph speed limit

limit) playing with matchbox cars, dinosaurs, etc with my friend Craig.
I don't remember the color inside being so garishly green. I think the inside of this car has been restored. Funny though, we always kept the T&C in the garage, so the green in this example is not the right color. No, I am not an expert, but you would need sunglasses to look at that!!!


We loved Deep Creek Lake. My dads friend had a nice speedboat docked at our timeshare, so we would use it to cruise across the lake and order lunch from the take out joint on the other side. You could only get there by boat...or ski's.

Furthermore, look at the simple control layout. No computers. All mechanical. It never proke down...but did overheat quite a bit until my dad replaced the radiator and thermostat. It took 1/2 hour and cost $20.

Now, I know that this is mid size sedans.....but it has been slow. Have ANY of you seen this car ON THE ROAD?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aussiefordadverts/13347233524/in/photostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aussiefordadverts/13346671335/in/photostream/

ab348

A '72 T&C was maybe the best of the Fuselage wagons. Huge capacity in those. Note the dual A/C on the inner roof.

[Deleted User]

DUPLICATE: Deleted by Author

[Deleted User]

deleted by author. Duplicate

brian125

nyccarguy said:

How much money has my new 2015 Legacy saved me over the 2011 328xi I just turned in? Possibly 1 speeding ticket's worth of fines so far. I've been watching my speed in the Legacy, especially since Subaru advises against using the cruise control for the 1st 500 miles. As I stated the other day, the speed limit on highways in New York City is 50 mph. This AM, I caught the nose of a white Charger sticking out from behind a guard rail at the bottom of a hill (where I've NEVER seen a cop before). I was going about 65. If I was in the BMW, I easily would have had the cruise set at 75 and gotten nailed.

The speed limit on local roads in Stamford, CT (where I live) is 25 mph. My wife got pulled over for going 40 the other day. Thankfully she was wearing her scrubs and just given a verbal warning. She has really been doing her best to drive 25 to 30 mph since then & it is close to impossible.

@nyccarguy

Check out the Passport 9500 xi radar detector. Great investment for $475. Best radar system on the market . GPS and Satellite driven with red light camera and speed trap notification

Whats awesome is that the 9500ix couples radar detection with GPS, using the precise location of alerts to automatically learn false alarms in your area – and then ignore them. After passing the same signal three times, the unit beeps and briefly displays “Stored” and from then on, it ignores alerts at that location. Because it is analyzing the frequency of the radar signal, it will still alert if a cop happens to be radar-ing in that same spot. You can also manually mark a spot to be ignored.

My son tested this radar system with his NYPD buddies at work. His bottom line was its a great unit with plenty of notification time on all radar. POP radar is the hardest one to detect cause cops turn this on and off. The passport did very well with pop.

I bought 2 passport units for my vehicles and its laughable that I have never been stop yet.
NY to Boston where my daughter lives............ and Myrtle beach.




I have driven from NY to S.C. Myrtle beach often. Cops everywhere. When I first bought this unit 6 years ago I made my boy drive with me a couple of times to Myrtle beach to test it out fearing of getting a ticket. At very high speeds 95 at times and hoping to get pulled over which never happen. The 9500 gave us plenty of time to slow down

I highly recommend this unit and its legal in our area........... Best 475 you will ever spend

brian125

The 9500xi can also be hard wired thru your vehicle. I was going to do it with my R-spec Genesis but my son said in some of the states where radar is illegal .....VA , DC, Police can now detect if you have this system attached to your car. So I decide to keep it mobile.

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

Id like to try that stunt driving thru VA with a radar dector on my windshield

In VA the cops have radar detector-detectors,....so we have detector-detector-detector units. Freaking nuts. I think I want an EMP on my car...just shuts down the cruiser period. Try chasing me down then assho*&*^

[Deleted User]

ab348 said:

A '72 T&C was maybe the best of the Fuselage wagons. Huge capacity in those. Note the dual A/C on the inner roof.

Wow, you are right. I thought they were speakers. It's funny how we cruised down the road w/ the A/C on h=just like today...nice and comfortable.....for long, long periods of time. You know, There was still no limit in Montana and parts of Texas. Th didn't need any federal money to maintain what...8 roads?

[Deleted User]

backy said:

@ab348 said:
Again, I must raise the question of how/why the auto reviewers everywhere give the 6 such glowing reviews when people in the real world do not seem to like it all that much. You are a good example of that. Seems very odd.

Mazda6 owners seem to like their cars. It had the highest owner satisfaction of any mid-sized car in Consumer Reports' most recent Car Owner Satisfaction Survey:

http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/owner-satisfaction/index.htm

They may be satisfied and happy in their new admittedly great handling car until they get blown away by a Fusion, Kia, and especially it's nemesis, the Accord.
Like I said, after 2 test drives. 185 hp = no sale. Why would I trade my car for a slower one?

stickguy

well, you would save on speeding tickets for one thing!

akirby

Why are you so obsessed over a few hp in a midsized family sedan?

m6user

Mazda6 - 185 hp
Accord - 185 hp
Altima - 182 hp
Camry - 173 hp
Legacy - 175 hp
Sonata - 190 hp
Passat - `170 hp
Fusion - 175 hp
Optima - 190 hp

Fusion 0-60 = 7.9 secs
Mazda6 0-60 = 7.5 secs
Optima/Sonata 0-60 7.7 secs

Yeah, looks like the Fusion really blows the doors off the Mazda6??? Seems the HP is right in the middle of the group and it's 0-60 time is in the top third. Appears that someone is exaggerating. The only Accord that "blows away" the Mazda6 is the stick and that is by a whole one second. And to tell the truth I have never seen a published 0-60 time for the stick Mazda6 so I have no idea how it would really do.

Bottom line: All this talk about 0-60 and drag racing is kind of silly. People don't even care how fast these cars are as long as they can get out of their own way. Anybody that cares about real speed is going to buy a car with 240hp+ at least. Talking about one 4banger blowing away another 4banger with a couple of extra horses is trash talk.

explorerx4

I think I've figured out something about how my Fusion measures fuel mileage. It seems to over estimate how much coasting adds to the average fuel mileage. I drive over a good size 'hill' on my normal commute. The mileage doesn't seem to drop us much after going up the hill as it goes up on the way down. The average mpg readout does seem to get more accurate the closer to empty I push the range.

nyccarguy

Horsepower & Fuel Economy numbers don't "tell as much of the story" as they used to. A car's acceleration and fuel economy are as much determined by the transmission, how the car is geared, and of course it's weight as the car's power output.

@cski‌

I totally understand you not wanting to go for the Mazda6, especially if you feel it is an inferior vehicle (acceleration wise) and it is in the same category as your Optima.

I'm adjusting to life with my 175 horsepower Subaru Legacy quite nicely. So far (3 days into ownership), I'm impressed with the car's build quality. I can't seem to find a place where Subaru "cheaped out." Believe me, I'd have noticed by now. The ride is definitely comfortable and compliant without being sprung "overly soft." I do like the fact that it is different (even though the grill & headlights seemed to ave been ripped off a Ford Taurus). So far I've only seen 1 "in the wild" since I took delivery (red).

I know it has been said a few times, but there is a lot of competition in this class for a reason. Different strokes for different folks. Each car has something unique and special about it whether it be acceleration, handling, driving dynamics, comfort, a turbo motor, a diesel motor, availability of a manual transmission, AWD, interior comfort, trunk space, most features for the buck.. There is no correct answer. Just the right choice.

stickguy

NYC, glad you are liking it. I figured the Legacy would be a good option for your commute. Let me know what you end up getting for real world MPG too.

ab348

The topic of the day is why the new 2015 Hyundai Sonata Turbo is so slow when compared to its claimed Hp as compared to its competition. This is based on results of acceleration tests conducted by all the usual magazines and websites. Aparently it is a real slug. Discuss.

stickguy

geared for MPG?

nyccarguy

Now I have to do some more digging into the owner's manual to see how the trip computer works. Does it automatically reset after each fill up? The car had 95 miles on it when I took delivery. My salesman told me he filled the car up, so the trip computer was set at ZERO. Right now sitting in my driveway it shows the average mpg at 30. I'll see how long I can go until my 1st fill up.

backy

ab348 said:

The topic of the day is why the new 2015 Hyundai Sonata Turbo is so slow when compared to its claimed Hp as compared to its competition. This is based on results of acceleration tests conducted by all the usual magazines and websites. Aparently it is a real slug. Discuss.

You meant the 2.0T, right? (There's also the 1.6T.) The 2015 Sonata 2.0T is down 29 HP from the prior generation, using a smaller turbo than the 2014 car. Then Hyundai re-tuned the car for better response at lower speed vs. 0-60 time.

Edmunds.com gave the 2015 Sonata 2.0T an "A" overall rating. As was noted above, not everyone (including me) is looking for blistering acceleration in their mid-sized family cars. There's other characteristics that are more important. (My Sonata of choice is the 1.6T Eco, and I'm sure that would be blown away on the drag strip by several other mid-sized cars.) So while the Sonata 2.0T won't win many 0-60 races against competitors, it seems to be a solid overall package in the class. In giving the Sonata 2.0T an "A" for "Fun to Drive", Edmunds.com said:

It's difficult to label the vast majority of midsize family sedans as "fun-to-drive." The 2015 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.0T does an admirable job of approaching that level by remaining composed and capable through curves. Power may be down versus V6 rivals, but it feels faster than it is.

http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/sonata/2015/rating-details.html?sub=sedan

Consider: why has the Miata been so popular over the years? Because of its power and 0-60 times? No. It has other attributes that are appealing to buyers looking for a fun-to-drive convertible. Just as the Sonata 2.0T has attributes appealing to buyers of mid-sized family sedans. For buyers like you, there's quicker cars to choose from.

stickguy

I saw the 200 at the auto show, and it was a huge improvement style wise. Have not sat in or driven one.

IMO, the mid-size class right now is full of great options. Even the "bottom feeder" cars are quite nice, and loaded with goodies for an attractive price. The competition is fierce, which is great for buyers. Really hard to go wrong with any option.

so, as always, each model has it's own unique personality and plusses/minuses. So buyers just need to figure out which one pushes their buttons the best. I love the new Legacy for a number or reasons, but know that some others will not like it at all. I also looked at a Camry expecting to hate it, and turned out to really like it, and came close to leasing one (still might if I manage to sell my other cars!)

so Ryan, drive the 200. Heck, drive them all. Then report back what you think!

akirby

There really aren't any terrible choices. It comes down to price and styling and what features are important to you.

brian125

The 2015 Chrysler 200 has plenty of leg room for over 6 footers. Head Rm, was good. Hip room was tight due to the contoured seats and middle consult. What I found interesting about the Chrysler 200 was interior looks and the layout inside. Big improvement. I see why they are selling over 10k units a month. On the upper model S, awd 30k version there is a rotary shifter. A big knob in the center stack which is a nice touch. Jaguar vehicles also have the rotary shifter. Right next to the shifter was a parking brake button you push to secure brake. The alpine stereo sounded good and the info center was nice. Interior room not as big as Accord , Altima , or Fusion. Probably not worth 30k plus for upper model. Even with the 296 h/p V-6.
Resale value should still remain awful on this vehicle. Quality and build is the question mark for buyers looking to keep car 6 plus years .

Its a Good lease car if interior space isn't your number 1

benjaminh

Midsize sales for Sept:

Accord 32,956

Camry 28,507

Fusion 21,693

Altima 21,675

Malibu 15,186

Sonata 14,918

200 10,995

Optima 10,908

Passat 7280

Legacy 6198

Mazda6 4263

benjaminh

CSKI:

My first car was a green, 1969 Pontiac Catalina Safari wagon with a rear facing third seat. Beyond huge. That thing could hold 9 with ease. C. 7 liter engine, iirc., or whatever a 400 cubic inch V8 translates to....

nyccarguy

Cool - so I'm 1 of 6198;)

[Deleted User]

Considering my past THREE (3) speeding tickets over the course of 1 week, I have enrolled in the "driver improvement program" run by the county. Hey, it takes 6 points off for $55.

I have also decided on a slower vehicle, and one that requires no license...because that could happen during my court procedins! (1% chance) A 1975 Honda Cub Cadet and a raincoat would work, but lets face it. The Peel POP 50 is the best option for low cost driving in a congested area and having no license. +

Here is a picture of my new car. The dealer was even very excited about an even exchange deal. How could I go wrong? I mean,; How hard can it be?

stickguy

My Volvo will get you out of tickets. Slow and steady and how pays attention to a little Volvo?

[Deleted User]

From :> Benjaminh

My first car was a green, 1969 Pontiac Catalina Safari wagon with a rear facing third seat. Beyond huge. That thing could hold 9 with ease. C. 7 liter engine, iirc., or whatever a 400 cubic inch V8 translates to...It translates to to 6.5 liters and in the Safari Wagon has 290 HP and 385 lb ft. Here is an enthusiasts web site about it: http://www.oldride.com/library/1969_pontiac_catalina.html

BTW, The Safari without the wagon or the rear doors and with ceratin specific options was known as the GTO. So, your folks had a GTO. (wagon, but say that really softly). A;lso, the Goat had 366 HP and 430 lb ft. fast car for 3300 Lbs.

It had rear A\C routed through the roof like my dads old Chrysler T/C wagon.

nyccarguy

So far, so good. 1 full week, and about 483 miles later I'm thrilled to own my Legacy. Officially I got 28.3 mpg on my 1st tank. The suspension seems to be tuned just right for my commuting needs. The ride is extremely compliant and comfortable. The CVT drives like a very responsive conventional automatic. Throttle response is linear.

m6user

"BTW, The Safari without the wagon or the rear doors and with ceratin specific options was known as the GTO. So, your folks had a GTO. (wagon, but say that really softly). A;lso, the Goat had 366 HP and 430 lb ft. fast car for 3300 Lbs."

No, the the GTO) was not based on the Safari or Catalina or Bonneville. It was based on the Pontiac Tempest/Lemans, a midsize car of the time. The others were full size "boats". The GTO got an engine from the larger cars and it was the 389, not the 400. I actually had a 1963 Tempest and the 1964 Tempest was a completely different car of which a version of it was the GTO.

stevedebi

m6user said:

... I actually had a 1963 Tempest and the 1964 Tempest was a completely different car of which a version of it was the GTO.

Ah, the Tempest. My folks had a '62 two door that we got from my Grandparents. It was a four banger, but we drove it in Germany where my dad was stationed, and it kept up fine. That was my first driving car (besides learning on a fintail when I was 12). I could fit an amazing amount of stuff in the trunk, as I proved on several vacations.

backy

Yes, even the base LX has the 9AT for 2015.

http://www.chrysler.com/hostc/bmo/CUC201509/compareModels.do

[Deleted User]

m6user said:

"BTW, The Safari without the wagon or the rear doors and with ceratin specific options was known as the GTO. So, your folks had a GTO. (wagon, but say that really softly). Also, the Goat had 366 HP and 430 lb ft. fast car for 3300 Lbs."

No, the the GTO) was not based on the Safari or Catalina or Bonneville. It was based on the Pontiac Tempest/Lemans, a midsize car of the time. The others were full size "boats". The GTO got an engine from the larger cars and it was the 389, not the 400. I actually had a 1963 Tempest and the 1964 Tempest was a completely different car of which a version of it was the GTO.

No, the GTO was based on the subframe of the tempest/lemans but was stretched for the wagon Safari. The Safai only had 290 HP and 350+ lbs of torque, but it was the same block

I will give you all the kudos on this one. I thought it was pretty straightforward, but my god they used a lot of different V8's and the 2 speed trans available until 1972 shows just how far we have come technologically.

[Deleted User]

ryanhandler said:

I have grown increasingly obsessed with the all new 2015 Chrysler 200 personally. Chrysler seems to have gone a long way in improving this vehicle, far from the old Sebring days. Now the one question I have, and hopefully someone can answer it.

Does the 200 come stock with a 9 speed transmission? I saw on Arrigo Sawgrass that most of the ones in their inventory included the 9 speed. Could someone please answer this for me?

I will answer the question directly and quickly. The 200 is a stretched Dart. It looks great inside and out, and the merger with CHrysler and Fiat seems to be working. I am seeing a lot of Cherokee's on the road. Here's the thing though. Does Fiat help or hinder the cars reliability? parts availability? I would wait a year and see how many TSB's and recalls are issued. I did the exact same thing on my car. I waited for the 2012, and glad I did. They fixed the strut/pulling to the left problem on 77,000 of them, and my car was quoted the correct MPG and F/E numbers so no probs there.
My mom just told me she got a rear view camera in the mail for MY car. No charge. Awesome!!!

explorerx4

Let my wife take the Fusion for about a 100 mile round trip last week. When she got back, she had a big smile and said that car loves to run. Predictably, mileage for this fill up was down a couple of MPG.

brian125

k. posted in wrong forum....

brian125

Surprised more buyers are not test driving/ talking about the new hybrid version midsize vehicles.

Anyone drive a Ford, GM, Toyota, or Honda midsize hybrid.

stickguy

I think it is a price issue. Mid size buyers IMO lean toward value (iow are cheap!). Plus a 4 cyl now tends to get quite good mileage anyway.

backy

I averaged 40 mpg on a recent 260 mile round trip with my wife's 2013 Sonata 2.4. The latest designs e.g. Mazda6, Sonata Eco, and Accord would likely do better than that. I could do a little better with a hybrid, but given we only drive that car about 7500 miles a year, we'd never recoup the difference in price, especially with gas in the $3 a gallon range.

explorerx4

My Fusion with 2.0 turbo is averaging about 28 MPG. Even if I got 42 MPG with a hybrid, it wouldn't make sense to buy a hybrid based on the 11k per year I've been averaging.

brian125

I think the 4cyl Accord gets 40 h/w also. Not bad for a 22/23k out the door low end model. Couple more years mpg's have to be higher for all car companies mandated by the gov't.

brian125

what year is your fusion?. Is there a change in the 2015 models mpg's

explorerx4

@brian125, I have a 2013. It's rated @22/33. My trips have been I-84/I-81/I-80. Usually a fill up every 2+ weeks in my normal driving.

brian125

I just pulled some random numbers on the new 2015 midsize cars turbo engines being offered .

The 2015 VW Passat 2 turbo engines offered :

1.8L Turbo............. 24/36....................... 170 h/p @‌4800.............3230 LBs

2.0L Turbo ..............30/42 ..........................150 h/p @3500..............3230 LBs

2015 Accord lx cvt........27/36

2015 Camry 2.5L.........25/35

2015 Fusion 2.5L.........22/34

2015 Sonata 2.4L.........25/37

2015 mazda6 2.5L........26/38

Couple more years a lot of midsize vehicles will be at the 40 mpg mark.

backy

A few corrections and notes:

* The Passat's 2.0L Turbo is a TDI, not gas as are all the other cars.
* The Accord, Camry, and Mazda6 don't offer a turbo.
* The Sonata offers 2 gas turbos, a 1.6L rated at 28/38/32 and a 2.0L rated at 23/32/26.
* The Fusion offers 2 gas turbos, a 1.5L rated at 25/37/29 (with optional auto-stop) and a 2.0T rated at 22/33/26 (FWD). The 2.5L isn't a turbo.
* One midsized non-hybrid gas car, the Mazda6, does hit 40 mpg in one variant, with EPA ratings of 28/40/32. Without a turbo.

brian125

The 2015 Altima 2.5L mpg's is also very impressive @ 27/38. Probably the best out of all midsize gas motors on paper.

Diesel is 3.26 plus a gallon here in the NYC/ five boroughs. Still 15 to 20 cents cheaper then Regular gas. I Was in Edison, NJ today seen gas prices as low as $ 2.81 a gallon for reg. Not bad at all.

I sat in the 2015 Passat and I'm disappointed with the front head room. To small for me. Head room was terrible with and w/o sunroof. Edmunds has it listed at 38.3. legroom was fine at 42.4. shoulder rm. at 56.9 was also good.

With new choice motors and vehicle upgrades the 2015 Passat will sell a lot more this upcoming year.

m6user

brian125 said:  "The 2015 Altima 2.5L mpg's is also very impressive @ 27/38. Probably the best out of all midsize gas motors on paper."

The Mazda6 motor has more HP and more torque and both are achieved at lower rpms than the Altima and the 6 gets about the same mpg as the Altima.  Curious why you would say the Altima motor is best "on paper".

Avg price of diesel nationally is about $.50 more per gal than reg unleaded.  It is less than reg in a few areas but by and large diesel is about 15%-20% more than reg gas.

brian125

Last I looked the Altima and Mazda6 4cyl. motors were very close everything. On paper Altima 27/38 gas mpg is best in class.

backy

Actually, on paper the Mazda6 (as high as 28/40) and Sonata 1.6 (28/38) gas engines both top the Altima in fuel economy. The Altima is very good there, just not "best in class".

brian125

I stand correct with the Sonata it is king of the small 4cyl.

Mazda6 at 28/40. Edmunds, Nada, and kbb have it @26/38.

Regardless give and take a few mpg all excellent