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I doubt a $75K price point would work; that's too high by 1/3.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
My wife took her 2014 SQ5 to the dealer service dept for the 35K service interval. This dealer typically aligns the car they offer the customer as their loaner car with the customer's actual car. Well, of course they don't have loaner SQ5's (didn't even think they would); so they offer her an S4. She said, "Since my husband has an S4, could you put me in something that I don't normally have access to?" Service adviser -- who knows us well -- says, "Sure, what would you like?" My wife says, "How about an A7 or S7." "Well the last A7 just left, but we have a 2015 3.0T A6 with sport package that you might find interesting . . . "
Longer story short: She takes the sported-up A6 and drives it to work, the grocery store and home. Next morning (Saturday) she asks me to return the A6 and pick up the SQ5.
The A6 is, hmm, sublime, it is so smooooth and powerful and almost eerily quiet. The thing accelerates with a great deal of urgency but somehow behind the wheel there is virtually no drama. There's a certain tightness to the suspension (better be, it had the sport suspension and upsized wheels and tires) -- I got the sense this (relatively) large car was proving itself to be damn near nimble.
And, at $59K, it is about the same MSRP as my S4. I could see myself driving this thing -- it has more comfort, but it appears to give up but little in responsiveness to the wheel and whip.
Then I get into a stretch that I know from many years of experience is full of twisties and off-camber turns and those kind of "liquid potholes" -- undulations in the pavement that have yet to break through to the substrate. Kind of upside down speed bumps.
In any case, I am seriously looking forward to the ride.
That is, until I take my first corner at speed -- about triple what the posted "curve ahead" yellow sign with the big black arrow "suggests." The car has NO issue taking the turn, It seems unflapped by my request for it to turn in sharply -- it does not understeer (that I could tell, anyway) and the tires didn't howl.
Damn, damn, damn -- the leather covered driver's seat is a flat as a board and about as slick as a kid's slide. The car takes the turn with great aplomb -- too bad it all but threw me overboard (thankfully I was wearing my lap/shoulder belt and was holding on to the steering wheel with both hands.)
Somewhere I heard, or thought I heard, "WHOA NELLIE!"
My 2009 A4 Prestige with sport package and my 2005 A6 -- BOTH of THEM -- had sport seats (optional, yes). I returned the car to the dealer and at that exact moment in time, the sales team was sans customers, so I asked (thankful my opinion pertaining to the horrible "bucket" seats would not be overheard by any other customers), "Can I order sport seats on a new A6 with the sport package?" And, "Can I order sport seats through the Audi Exclusive channel?"
The S6 (which is another $20,000) can have sport seats, the A6, no matter how optioned cannot.
What a world, what a world. I'm melting, melting.
Back in time, my '98 A4 had its standard seats that were somewhere in between these two current extremes. It's unfortunate that the standard seats in current models look like couch seats and that there is no in-between level of bolstering similar to what you might find in a Honda or Mazda today. I thought the standard seats were pretty ugly.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The same is true, apparently, across the line -- the only way to get the really good chairs is to opt for the "S" or "RS" versions. Now, I am a fan, but I loved my 2.0T A4 with sport package when I picked it up in 2008. And, my '05 A6 also had the bolsters on it (a $1,000 option in "dark burnt orange").
Nothing gold can stay.
My favorite seats were the sport seats in my Acura TL SH AWD. Comfortable with perfect bolstering.../not too much....not too little....just right. Decent padding, too (which I could not say with the S4 seats which were particularly unyielding) 2nd is in the CTS. Thigh extensions, really nice leather. Could use a bit more bolstering. But for overall use and comfort, they acquit themselves quite well.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2018 430i Gran Coupe
However, Germans have always known how to make good car seats. They just don't care enough to give us one in their base price, which is inexcusable, IMHO.
As I keep owning my BMW and really like it, I became quite disgruntled with the way they market and price their product. Not so much about the pricing level (because in comparison to Europe and other markets we have it really good here), but the sneaky way they put the content together and sometimes truly embarrassing configurations. Besides the front seats, my other "favorite" is fold-down seats, which used to be $500 option on previous generations and still remains one on 320 line (now standard on 328/335). What was worse, majority of dealers appear to be oblivious to that and ordered cars without them, so I am absolutely positive there were plenty of people shocked to learn their "luxury" car lacked a feature standard on the cheapest vehicle sold in the country.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Looking forward to the coming years when y'all are writing about how great your new XEs and XFs are!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I'd of been worried about needing a Hertz tow truck. Of course, I've talked about a previous Camaro requiring a new transmission before the weekend was out. They conveniently towed his car off the track and put it next to the adjacent public highway before the "Hertz" tow truck got there; to avoid any possible confrontations about why the car broke down. I read all the fine print in Hertz's contract, and it doesn't specifically exclude HPDE's.
I'd leave instructions for my heirs to sue for everything Hertz and the at-fault party were worth (driver and insurance that directly caused the rental in the first place). I'm certainly honestly concerned about safety, as I hope the **** never hits the fan, but you never know.
You could argue you take trips to the mountains, maybe go on dirt or snowy roads, so you have to have AWD. You could argue you need the creature comforts of a premium car, the nice sound system, and other features you enjoy. There's a reason someone buys a luxury sport vehicle, and you can't just replace it with an old Chevy Impala rental because it's as big or bigger and has 4-doors.
As to being insured for HPDE events, as of about a year ago, Geico specifically has made an effort to exclude it in the policy. However, you wouldn't be suing for insurance coverage while your at the track, you'd be suing for "loss of use," as very few cars are track-suitable, or as fun to drive as an S4. I think it's two entirely different concepts. It's equivalent to if your house burns down and you have (loss of use housing coverage) putting you in a 4,000 SF mansion in El Centro, CA, instead of La Jolla, CA. Equivalent to insurance companies, but not anyone else that lives in the real world.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Heck, RB, if you can make the switch from BMW to Chrysler, I think everyone could!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I used to have exactly the same impressions of American vs. German car seats. It looks like the Germans are pandering to the mainstream US tastes and then getting a good seat is another way to nickel and dime those already high prices into higher prices. VW tried to pander to the US tastes with their blandmobiles like the current Jetta and the bloated Passat - and they have fully lost my interest on any of their models.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The option is called Individual Contour Seating Package. Please sit down.
It is $3,450.00.
Shut the front door.
Now, the seating package includes magic finger massage and full gender specif catheterization so you never have stop for those pesky bathroom breaks on those long 400 mile stints where there are no bathrooms.
The seats ARE very very nice -- I was hoping for something in the $1,000 range tho . . .
Of course there's always the $20,000 S6 upgrade which comes with the good seats, standard.
Decisions, decisions.
Oh yea, it also comes with stints. Whatever that means.
As I drive my lowly pre-beak TSX, it's interesting to hear my betters discuss this sort of stuff.
Some do it better than others.
Since when did "backup camera's" become essential equipment? I would say just 5 years ago they were still rarely seen. What the heck is park assist? I can park my own car. People did just fine without back up cameras for decades upon decades; it is far from essential. I got a red S4 without the back up cam and overpriced MMI/navigation, but I do have IPhone Bluetooth integration; perhaps the setup is different without MMI and you didn't know?
Cars are getting more and more expensive, and I believe it is because of all the non-essential "so-called essentials." The essentials are getting from A to B reliably. Being a ELPS category means that the L and P are important. My taste prefers my money go more towards P.
Hence Chrysler still lives in the basement of CR's reliability rankings (including more recent models/renamed old models); the more you think things have changed, the more they really remain the same.
Honda and Audi were not perfect experiences for me, but the fact they stood behind their product and either paid for repairs or reimbursed me for repairs (even if technically after warranty period) went a long way towards gaining my trust.
A lot of my knowledge on this is from comparing the vast and varied superiorities of the '06 A3 to the same year GTI. Also back then you got free maintenance for 50K miles. I would say the '15 GTI has caught up to my old A3 in most ways.
I'm a classic example of purchasing an entry level luxury car, having a great experience, and moving from $30K for the A3 to nearly $55K (out the door) for the '14 S4. If I was an entry level buyer today, I'm not sure the current A3 would do it for me. I feel the '06 A3 was a better value and car for the time. Essentially, it has been 9 years and the entry level A3 is inferior to my '06 A3 in a lot of ways, plus costing more. The 2.0T A3 Quattro is the right "entry" level car, but still, I prefer the '06 interior.
At the track I noticed I had developed some bad habits though, as it's possible to under steer and push the S4 around a turn, and still be able to rotate the car with the rear diff at the same time. Essentially you are forcing the car around the turn and pushing the front tires where you want to go even though they are not helping you accelerate. Not the fastest way to drive, and hard on the front tires. You can get away with it though, as the car is very forgiving to a heavy right foot.
So far, Cadillac has treated me as well/better as any other brand I've ever owned, that includes BMW, Audi, and Acura.
The CTS feels so solid, I can't quite see any parts flying off.
I have had cars with great seat profiles for over 10 years no - 2003 WRX, 2008 STI and 2012 328 with Sport Package. Bad seat profile is a deal breaker for me, period.
BTW - I'm quite heavy, so my bottom and back "fill" those seats perfectly. It means I'm just perfect size to take full advantage of the bolstering . Perhaps that's the reason I like them so much.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2009 A4 2.0T w/sport package
2005 A6 with optional sport seats
2005 X3 with optional sports seats
2001 A6 4.2 with optional sport seats
2000 A6 4.2 with optional sport seats
1997 A8 with sport seats and about a million adjustments
1996 S6 with the standard leather sport seats of the day
1986 5000S quattro with the optional sport seats (in wool)
We also had a 1988 325ix BMW with the optional sport package, which, oddly, did not include sport suspension, but everything else was sported up, including the front chairs (which were great) and the super nice steering wheel -- which could not be heated when you got the sport package?!?
Currently, an A6 can be sort of had with sport seats, but, as I noted previously they are called Individual Contour Seats -- they seem to be a cross between the standard A6 seats and my S4 seats, plus massage and ventilation -- but the bolsters are not quite as prominent as in the S4.
I'm with those of you who consider the seats a deal breaker if they aren't what I want.
Most of the above cars that had sport seats that were optional came with a maximum price of $1,000 and a normal price of $500 -- even adjusted for inflation, I can't figure out why not offer the options that people want -- IF YOU ALREADY market them in other geographies.
I wondered for years what the big deal was about NOT offering heated REAR seats -- the cost of the seat warmers is probably quite low and a $250 - $500 up charge seems like a no-brainer. Finally, with respect to Audi at least, heated rear seats are at least offered for an extra charge.
I signed onto the Audi Exclusive web page, and there are many optional choices for interior treatments that can be had -- yet, it is clear it is very difficult to order sportier seats via that exclusive program if they are not normally offered in your market. The Audi Exclusive program seems more like a decorating option than a functional one -- not that that is a bad thing.
While I am ranting, I really don't get why so many things are bundled together into one mid-four-figure "package" -- if all I want is a top-view camera, it appears I have to take automatic cruise control, w/stop and start, lane keeping assistance and pre-sense plus. Now, I'd gladly buy top view and pre-sense plus, but paying for lane assist and cruise control with full-stop, start capabilities does not, today at least, interest me.
My belief is that folks do things based on what is marketed to them within certain cost parms.
I am not keen on paying for a seat massage function, when all I am after is bolstered chairs in the first place, so, I am likely to pass on the expensive option, and, without that option, I am likely to pass on the car and HOPE that the next gen A4 line will amp up both the L and the P.
I hope and pray that the explanation for all this bundling isn't to reduce the cost of certifying the cars for sale in the US -- stranger things, I imagine, though.
I also had to live with the exponentially increasing rattles after 36,000 miles, so by the time 60K miles hit, there were more rattles than a modern day super computer could count up to.