What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice

fintail said:

It had Snohomish plate frames - surprisingly, no flag.

Such behemoths are used as commuters in many places in this country. They don't have to cheat though, special regs.

Modified diesel trucks are putting out far more pollution than all the cheating VW TDIs. I wonder how many are stopped and ticketed in CA? It would seem GM with their poorly designed diesels and the D3 with their behemoth monster diesel engines have done more to give diesel a bad name than any VW scandal could.

Does anyone find it unusual that the people targeted German made diesel? Why not D3 diesel trucks? Far more of them on the road than all German diesels combined. Could it be the EPA has been told hands off our automakers? I find it very hard to believe a new Ford F250 Powerstroke does not put out far more NOx than my Touareg TDI. You should love this. All the pollution will be confined to the race track by law.

With the advance in vehicle electronics, companies like Hypertech, SCT, EFI Live and H&S Performance offer programmers/tuners that can increase both horsepower and torque.

But maximum power gains are achieved with the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) removed and a custom engine programmer.

However, the aftermarket performance companies offering the DPF Delete Kits are quick to point out their product is solely for closed-course racing and off-road use and is not street legal in any state.

http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/exhaust/

fintail

The heavy vehicle industry did it the right way - they lobbied, This is especially good in a culture that prides itself on being "business friendly".

ruking1

The truth of the matter is the B100 is almost a no-brainer! B100 specification engines currently incur the ire of the regulators!

gagrice

ruking1 said:

The truth of the matter is the B100 is almost a no-brainer! B100 specification engines currently incur the ire of the regulators!

The real issue with biodiesel is getting enough feedstocks to supply demand. I invested in Green Star GSPI about 12 years ago, and it has not done anything but go down. I talked to the President once and he was very open about all the pitfalls even though they were selling all they could produce. Looks from their website they are getting into Algae biodiesel which seems like the best idea. Maybe my 10,000 shares will one day be worth something.

http://www.gspi.com/b.htm

texases

There's a limited volume of B100 available from recycling fryer oil. Growing for it specifically runs into the same problems as ethanol. Push it further, and they destroy rainforests for palm oil. Already have.

gagrice

texases said:

There's a limited volume of B100 available from recycling fryer oil. Growing for it specifically runs into the same problems as ethanol. Push it further, and they destroy rainforests for palm oil. Already have.

Exactly right. Very limited feedstocks for recycled cooking oil and grease. The only logical source at this time is Algae. If they can make it competitively with cheap oil. I am paying $2.89 for RUG and $2.29 for diesel. Enjoying it while it lasts. It will also have to compete with the cleanest diesel on earth made from Natural Gas. GTL plants are going up in several locations.

GTL products are colourless and odourless. They contain almost none of the impurities – sulphur, aromatics and nitrogen – that are found in crude oil.

Natural gas is abundant, versatile and affordable. GTL production can help countries with natural gas resources grow their economies as new gas supplies come on-stream to satisfy growing global demand for liquid products.

Shell GTL Fuel is an alternative fuel for use in diesel engines, which can lower local emissions (e.g. particulate matter, NOx, hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide).

http://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/natural-gas/gas-to-liquids.html

ruking1

Yes! The new diesel fuels have been in the works & are already here! The theoretical, practical & real world ppm sulfur is ZERO ppm sulfur!!!!

Mr_Shiftright

gagrice said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well how can EPA certify B100 when no automaker will certify it for their engines?

At present, the EPA has not certified any *conversions* to biodiesel. That's not to say they wouldn't certify a B100 engine if VW or MB would make one.

Actually Willie Nelson has been running B100 in his MB since 2005 with the blessings of Mercedes. His wife has an older VW Jetta wagon diesel also running on B100. It seems the Biodiesel industry in Hawaii is much more advanced than the rest of the World. They also set up a B100 plant for Kettle Chips in Oregon. They use their old cooking oil to run a fleet of VW Beetles.

The Salem plant’s customers includes Salem Area Mass Transit District, Cherriots; the entire bus fleet runs on 20 percent biodiesel, Carpenter said. The City of Portland’s water bureau vehicles run on 99.9 percent biodiesel.

The biodiesel-production plant opened in 2005 and was the first one in the state.

http://stillisstillmoving.com/willienelson/willie-nelson-to-visit-e-salem-biodiesel-plant/

https://www.bio-beetle.com/images/biobeetlesinparadise.pdf

Our VW maui rental cars get 40 MPG, over 400 miles on a tank, and are NOT affected by the VW "diesel dupe" at all.

https://.us/

NOPE---B100 most definitely does not have the blessing of Mercedes Benz. Tell Willie he's been rejected.

"B100 must never be used in Mercedes-Benz vehicles."

Mercedes Biodiesel Brochure: https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

Mr_Shiftright

Automakers will warranty biodiesel but only up to B20 in some cases, and B5 in other cases.

VW will not warranty B100 under any circumstances.

ruking1

You're giving practice examples of what I've been saying, all along! So, it would appear that you agree with what I've been saying!

So for example,I don't even use B5. (VW/MB warrants only to B5)

Slow diesel Newsday! Costco, Folsom, CA: $2.07 diesel, $2.59 premium, $2.35 regular! Advantage ( price) , Advantage ( low cpmd: fuel) diesel !

gagrice

Mr_Shiftright said:

Automakers will warranty biodiesel but only up to B20 in some cases, and B5 in other cases.

VW will not warranty B100 under any circumstances.

Truth is the automakers have no choice. They have to prove the B100 was the problem before they can deny warranty coverage. That is what they told the CEO of Pacific Biodiesel that passed that info onto me. So far no warranty work has been denied as a result of running B100 on Maui and Oahu. If someone dumps old cooking oil in their diesel and it plugs up the injectors they will likely pay the bill. Know your biodiesel producer is imperative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGPw0uGaag

ruking1

It wouldl be interesting to see if that EPA official who was so logical & complementary about biodiesel still has her job! ?

ruking1

http://mashable.com/2016/01/11/nissan-titan-warrior-concept/#7kC_uw4xCkqK
If I had to get a truck, this probably would be it !

andres3

texases said:

carboy21 said:

Costs incurred by BP so far include an estimated $14 billion for response and cleanup and $4.5 billion in penalties announced after a settlement of a criminal case with the government.

Federal Justice department asking for $48 Billion from VW for cheating and unsubstantiated NOX emissions allegations is laughably ridiculous . Lets see what they can do if VW refuses to pay anything. TDI owners can keep driving them for years to come before any resolution comes out of the case. If they boot VW out , then VW is still a winner

Pure fantasy. The NOx allegations are proven and admitted. Why continue this dead end strategy? If you think the crimes are minimal, fine, but reality is reality.

I've heard estimates of "UP TO 40X" the allowable limit, but no indication they have a good estimate of how much actual NOX pollution VW is responsible for due to their cheating software systems.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

http://mashable.com/2016/01/11/nissan-titan-warrior-concept/#7kC_uw4xCkqK
If I had to get a truck, this probably would be it !

Wonder how much they will give me in trade for my low mileage 2008 Frontier?? They chose the best of the best diesel engines for their truck. I would prefer a V6 Cummins, but what the hey...

ruking1

gagrice said:

ruking1 said:

http://mashable.com/2016/01/11/nissan-titan-warrior-concept/#7kC_uw4xCkqK
If I had to get a truck, this probably would be it !

Wonder how much they will give me in trade for my low mileage 2008 Frontier?? They chose the best of the best diesel engines for their truck. I would prefer a V6 Cummins, but what the hey...

Yeah that actually is a good question ! I am led to believe the (compact truck) segment has very very good resale value's !

This Cummings V-8 turbo DIESEL engine is probably going to be one of the most ICONIC "light" truck engines in US markets!!!! If it proves to be reliable and durable, it will be one of THE most coveted engine for almost any application !
Yeah, my actual preferences would be: either 8 to 10 speed A/T or a 7 speed Tremec M/T.

gagrice

andres3 said:

texases said:

carboy21 said:

Costs incurred by BP so far include an estimated $14 billion for response and cleanup and $4.5 billion in penalties announced after a settlement of a criminal case with the government.

Pure fantasy. The NOx allegations are proven and admitted. Why continue this dead end strategy? If you think the crimes are minimal, fine, but reality is reality.

I've heard estimates of "UP TO 40X" the allowable limit, but no indication they have a good estimate of how much actual NOX pollution VW is responsible for due to their cheating software systems.

Yet the estimates are 5-40% in excess of the allowable NOx. Notice the diesel haters only use the 40% number. What is insignificant is the NOx from a handful of VW TDIs compared to the millions of diesel vehicles allowed to spew far more than the VW TDI legally.

Ask an owner, like myself if the Eco Nuts in EPA/CARB make me feel guilty, I will give them a resounding NO. I am putting out far less Global Warming CO2 than any gas vehicle in my class. I am putting out far less deadly Carbon monoxide than any gasser in class. Life is a compromise no vehicle is pollution free from MFG to the crusher. Lest anyone forget the life cycle pollution of a Prius is more than a Hummer according to studies made.

ruking1

Yes, I know folks can imagine how sad & devastated I am about all of this! So right now, the scenarios are a new CC or buy back!

Incidentally, the registration for the VW customer care package ($500 in 2 categories) and (3 year) roadside assist is completed. The two segments have an 11/2016 end date, so I have to get cracking on spending $1000. So defacto, VW (@ $2.07 per gal) bought 241.5 gal of ULSD. @ 40 mpg, that is 9,662 miles.

We also just got the biannual CA smog check. It passed with flying colors!!! It's (2009 VW TDI) good to go for another two years!

Mr_Shiftright

If I were agreeing with what you were saying, you'd know it right away.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

If I were agreeing with what you were saying, you'd know it right away.

To cut to the chase, you posted your agreements! That is IF you mean what you posted! If it is Obama speak, then I could understand your quote !!

No matter, I'm not holding my breath for a B 100 (TDI) engine specification passenger vehicle fleet cars. Would it be GREAT? Absolutely! B100 engines can be street legal, but it is done more anecdotally! I've heard talk of B 20, on some D3 products. R

Mr_Shiftright

Agreements to what exactly? I'm a bit lost here.

ruking1

I was looking at the Propel brand of HPR (ASTM D975) diesel fuel ! They also offer biodiesel. A lot of diesel folks will understand the brands advantages. To most folks, it's just TMI. https://propelfuels.com
Be that as it may, the locations are placed very conveniently to where I trek/pass, a majority of the time, both home & on the SOS/DD trek! I guess at some point, I should give them a shot ! They even have no wait, custom drive up/fill lanes. While Costco is cheaper, you have to get in line with some gassers. I think right now there's $.12 difference.

ruking1

Looks like we're getting a second VW customer care package ! http://mashable.com/2016/01/11/volkswagen-diesel-goodwill-program/?utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+(Mashable)&utm_cid=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed#coS9eiOZ9gqN

Mr_Shiftright

So....maybe the "allegations" that the 3.0L was involved was true after all?

gagrice

I will be happy to take the money. Just don't try to get my Touareg without a fight or a lot of cash. So far no indication from VW they are making any offers. If it becomes an issue I can always buy a home and change my residence to a non DEQ covered part of Oregon. Probably the smartest thing for me to do financially all around. I am getting fed up with the extortion in this state.

ruking1

Business extortion, plain & simple!

stever

I wish all you fed up people would dump your houses and leave.

Housing costs make it unaffordable for me to move there and a big housing glut would help slash prices.

VW to propose diesel emissions solution to EPA next week (Fox)

Maybe the solution will be DEF - what's that, urea in solution?

fintail

It is amusing how people who owe much of their wealth to the place due to lucky timing (I mean boostrapping and Horatio Alger-ing their way) cry about extortion. Had they lived in most other places, they wouldn't be nearly as fortunate.

I suspect retrofitting special cats will be a lot cheaper and easier than transplanting a DEF system.

texases

stever said:

I wish all you fed up people would dump your houses and leave.

Housing costs make it unaffordable for me to move there and a big housing glut would help slash prices.

VW to propose diesel emissions solution to EPA next week (Fox)

Maybe the solution will be DEF - what's that, urea in solution?

Yeah, that's what DEF is. Other articles talk about a 'revised catalytic converter'. DEF would be HUGE $$ to add, a cat just BIG $$.

stever

2009-'16 Volkswagen Touareg TDI Added to Volkswagen Diesel-Emissions Compensation Program

Never really believed the dilution is the solution to pollution catchphrase either.

Mr_Shiftright

If VW were a bank or brokerage house, they'd be getting a severe lecture right now and then giggling on their way out of the room after promising not to do it again.

Off-topic: Gee, nice places cost more to live in. Who would have thought?

fintail

Maybe VW should use the "too big to fail" defense, or perhaps "affluenza", seems to work in the Murkan court system

Speaking of diesels, this thing looks really nice, and no worries about emissions nonsense ;0

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/ctd/5389011907.html

ruking1

fintail said:

It is amusing how people who owe much of their wealth to the place due to lucky timing (I mean boostrapping and Horatio Alger-ing their way) cry about extortion. Had they lived in most other places, they wouldn't be nearly as fortunate.

I suspect retrofitting special cats will be a lot cheaper and easier than transplanting a DEF system.

While there are certainly elements of luck and timing, it's not even close to what you claim it is! If it was, folks like you would already have it, & in spades ! Thats why that kind of whining is entertaining and amusing ! Keep up the misdirected work !
More on topic, a new retrofitted catalytic converter would probably be the most efficient and effective solution!

Mr_Shiftright

Slow and stinky. No thanks. Been there, done that. Even with a turbo, you'll be the slowest car on the road by 2016 standards. Might be okay for a metro Uber driver with plenty of air freshener.

fintail

Speaking of whining, thou doth protest too much

Reminds me of those in the Seattle area who bought houses 35 years ago for 80K that are now worth 800K or more, and complain about the cost of living and taxes. Without that cost, the house would be worth 150K like it is in much of the rest of the country. Amazing luck.

I wonder if there will be a black market for un-modified pre-dieselgate VWs, as I am certain many will not get any mods.

Mr_Shiftright

They'll always be a niche for older VW diesels (not too old, though). I wouldn't mind one as a grocery-getter, but I wouldn't pay any kind of premium for it.

ruking1

fintail said:

Maybe VW should use the "too big to fail" defense, or perhaps "affluenza", seems to work in the Murkan court system

Speaking of diesels, this thing looks really nice, and no worries about emissions nonsense ;0

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/ctd/5389011907.html

IF there ever were companies that were too big to fail, VW has to be among the prime examples !

Now that's what we're talking about, a 31-year-old DIESEL vehicle with app 130,000 miles ! I would hope this particular one has the turbo. Without the turbo, it's a real hunting dog that doesn't hunt!

fintail

And it is nice looking and clean. It has many miles left on it. All 300Ds sold in the US from 1981+ are turbo, I think. I'd drive it.

ruking1 said:

Now that's what we're talking about, a 31-year-old DIESEL vehicle with app 130,000 miles ! I would hope this particular one has the turbo. Without the turbo, it's a real dog!

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Slow and stinky. No thanks. Been there, done that. Even with a turbo, you'll be the slowest car on the road by 2016 standards. Might be okay for a metro Uber driver with plenty of air freshener.

You may indeed have 3 good points there, but it's a $5800 excursion into the past. I really like my current diesels, especially on the upgrade !! I would dare say the 2003 VW Jetta TDI has more torque than the 1985 Mercedes Benz 300 D. It is still amazing to me that you can actually put about 300 pound feet of torque (155# ft stock) in those VWs! I remember relatives in the old days laughing because some MB owners were getting 225,000 miles!

Mr_Shiftright

A gerbil stoked with a double espresso has more torque than a 1985 Mercedes diesel. Remember, these cars were originally sold to the elderly Cadillac crowd during the "gas crunch" and also when Cadillac and Lincoln were driving themselves into a ditch.

Even with a turbo, this is a 0-60 in 15 seconds type of car. It's dicey on a modern freeway on ramp, and at altitude, turbo or not, you're going to struggle in these old timers.

Modern diesels are light years better in every way. No reason why a modern diesel, that is very well cared-for, cannot attain the high mileage one often hears attained by these old diesels (alleged but rarely documented with accompanying repair costs).

ruking1

Again points well taken ! Off-topic almost had a coffee spew!

gagrice

stever said:

I wish all you fed up people would dump your houses and leave.

Housing costs make it unaffordable for me to move there and a big housing glut would help slash prices.

VW to propose diesel emissions solution to EPA next week (Fox)

Maybe the solution will be DEF - what's that, urea in solution?

There will likely never be a housing glut in CA. Restrictions on building are far too extreme. I would be surprised if you can find a lot within commuting distance of any metro area for less than $250k. Then permits start about $50k and go up. Fannie and Freddie took care of the foreclosures by bundling and selling for pennies on the dollar to hedge funds. They are in rental pools and not available for sale. You can rent a studio here for about $1100 per month. If you can get into the Section8 program, you can get one of the new apartments being built for just those people.

PS
I would pack up and leave today if I could get my wife to go. Problem we can afford to live here. Or anywhere else we chose. This has been the coldest winter I can ever remember in San Diego. Just filled my propane tank. I filled it 36 days ago and today the bill is $538.18. So about $15 per day to heat our home that is insulated very well. Never got it above 70 degrees in here. Of course when it is hot the AC costs us about $300 a month to keep the place at 80 degrees. Not for the lower middle class unless you have the welfare system working for you.

gagrice

stever said:

2009-'16 Volkswagen Touareg TDI Added to Volkswagen Diesel-Emissions Compensation Program

Never really believed the dilution is the solution to pollution catchphrase either.

Goody, goody, love free money. That $500 is enough for about 5500 miles worth of diesel at our current price. In appreciation I will buy some shirts from my dealer to advertise the best automaker on the planet.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, yeah, grass is always greener. But it's not. This is the same concept that allows automakers to thrive.

ruking1

gagrice said:

stever said:

I wish all you fed up people would dump your houses and leave.

Housing costs make it unaffordable for me to move there and a big housing glut would help slash prices.

VW to propose diesel emissions solution to EPA next week (Fox)

Maybe the solution will be DEF - what's that, urea in solution?

There will likely never be a housing glut in CA. Restrictions on building are far too extreme. I would be surprised if you can find a lot within commuting distance of any metro area for less than $250k. Then permits start about $50k and go up. Fannie and Freddie took care of the foreclosures by bundling and selling for pennies on the dollar to hedge funds. They are in rental pools and not available for sale. You can rent a studio here for about $1100 per month. If you can get into the Section8 program, you can get one of the new apartments being built for just those people.

PS
I would pack up and leave today if I could get my wife to go. Problem we can afford to live here. Or anywhere else we chose. This has been the coldest winter I can ever remember in San Diego. Just filled my propane tank. I filled it 36 days ago and today the bill is $538.18. So about $15 per day to heat our home that is insulated very well. Never got it above 70 degrees in here. Of course when it is hot the AC costs us about $300 a month to keep the place at 80 degrees. Not for the lower middle class unless you have the welfare system working for you.

To address your PS, to the north, the nat gas consumption has doubled over last years' with the same thermometer settings. kWh consumption is down. So the total bill was about $145. 38 % of that was natural gas! So that is $1.84 per day to heat, have hot water & cook.

Mr_Shiftright

Houses in temperate climates are among the hardest to heat---no serious insulation.

ruking1

fintail said:

Speaking of whining, thou doth protest too much

Reminds me of those in the Seattle area who bought houses 35 years ago for 80K that are now worth 800K or more, and complain about the cost of living and taxes. Without that cost, the house would be worth 150K like it is in much of the rest of the country. Amazing luck.

I wonder if there will be a black market for un-modified pre-dieselgate VWs, as I am certain many will not get any mods.

Actually given the (YOUR) SPECIFIC example, it (lucky housing choices) actually does have a nexus into cars, more narrowly TDI's. It is also key to Seattle's economic health !

Yes there is very healthy market in pre diesel gate VW's!

ruking1

gagrice said:

stever said:

2009-'16 Volkswagen Touareg TDI Added to Volkswagen Diesel-Emissions Compensation Program

Never really believed the dilution is the solution to pollution catchphrase either.

Goody, goody, love free money. That $500 is enough for about 5500 miles worth of diesel at our current price. In appreciation I will buy some shirts from my dealer to advertise the best automaker on the planet.

I actually had a very interesting off-line discussion with a local Lexus dealership's service advisor. He/she of course was not representing the dealership . We were mainly talking gasser cars , but he/she asked me about diesels! So I look at him/ her kind of funny and asked IF he/ she really wanted to hear about it, as I really didn't want to bore! Green light! He/she was almost dumbfounded at the points made, beginning with the $1,00 VW customer care package& Roadside Assist at 104,000 miles on the 2009 VW TDI .

So I think the other truth is that EPA/CARB wants to extort more money than what VW is giving its customers, in diesel gate! It is sort of like the fact that the governments make more money from oil than oil companies !!!

gagrice

Mr_Shiftright said:

Houses in temperate climates are among the hardest to heat---no serious insulation.

Mine is only 10 years old and well insulated with all double pane windows. The biggest problem is also its biggest asset. It is 3000 sq ft on one level. Of course forced air heat is the least efficient. I wish it had a boiler and radiant heat in the floor. We are also paying $2.97 a gallon for propane. About 3 times the price of NG. Fortunately this is likely my largest propane bill for the year.

Mr_Shiftright

Remember when homes used heating oil? That was essentially diesel wasn't it?