What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

fintail

If our dotard regime would open up tourism, it would catapult them into a new era. Most of that entire region would barely be past third world status without tourism, why not them? There's only so much a relatively isolated island with a population similar to moderately sized states can do otherwise.

ruking1

fintail said:

If our dotard regime would open up tourism, it would catapult them into a new era. Most of that entire region would barely be past third world status without tourism, why not them? There's only so much a relatively isolated island with a population similar to moderately sized states can do otherwise.

Isolated? No! Any number of communist countries could have stepped in & up! Indeed any number of non communist countries could have also. You might want to study why the South American countries were not making a tourist bee line & rehabilitation of Cuba?

No, infrastructure would be massively overloaded & overwhelmed. Indeed that is why the Emperor F. Castro consented to BHO POTUS opening in the first place. Most everything in Cuba is 60 to 75 years out of date. Cuba, for conceptual purposes needs to be made into a brand new & massive Disney World with room for growth. More to your political point, the democrat BHO POTUS administration, which included the demo candidate that some say should have won 2016 election, had 8 years (before) to do the deed. Instead they wait to the last second. Less we forget, it was JFK of the dotard demo attitude, who erected the barriers to start with? Come to think of it, JFK & LBJ got us nose deep into the Vietnam War fiasco! It's only now (40+ years later) that we are closed to paying ($$'s) off that cluster F---.

fintail

Of course, the world was a different place in 1961 than today. Things did open up a tiny bit during the last same old same old regime - and now we are regressing again.

Tired of winning yet? LOOOL But that little island couldn't be less relevant to this thread, unless you want to see a Hyundai diesel in a 53 Chevy. Not going to see any Cuban-made diesel cars on the road here.

ruking1 said:

fintail said:

Well the demo o bummer administration, which included the demo candidate that to some should have won, had 8 years (before) to do the deed. Let's we forget, it was JFK of the dotard demo attitude, who erected the barriers?

ruking1

I'm looking forward to diesel's resurgence, for the next 4 years *2 years!

Needless to say, some say the 2 * 4 years demo administration's came very close to executing the diesels PVF demise.

So I hope you'd agree, advantage diesels !

fintail

A more appealing choice than hybrids and EVs for driving any substantial distance, without a doubt.

I am pretty sure the diesel lineup actually expanded under the false promise of hope and change, but I don't see the current regime of alternative facts doing anything to bring it back

ruking1

fintail said:

A more appealing choice than hybrids and EVs for driving any substantial distance, without a doubt.

I am pretty sure the diesel lineup actually expanded under the false promise of hope and change, but I don't see the current regime of alternative facts doing anything to bring it back

Well, off the top of my head, two things that may not look like much are in the works. 1. The review of EPA mpg, aka, roll backs. 2 Since CUV's, SUV's, small (but large) trucks have different standards than compact to mid size sedans, they can be legislated to penned passed 2025 way restrictive standards. Stricter standards can be levied on the compact to mid sized sedans. Moonbeam minions & CARB will probably sue anyway. So OEM's can do 49 state diesels as CA would be loathed to pass up the various fees CA license plate monies generate from the other 49 states.

fintail

Lots of empty platitudes in this tiresome new age. I'll believe it when I see it. I'll see it when MB has diesel passenger cars here again. Not holding my breath

It's definitely time for trucks and SUVs to not be held to their own (less restrictive) standards, diesel or gasoline.

ruking1

So you were ok with 96 months of tiresome SOS/DD. Yet, with the new sheriff in town, 9 months are now tiresome? But really the point: the old/current standards are STILL APPLICABLE / GOOD! I'd like also for MB to grow a pair & hit US markets with diesels again. Its probably more complicated, but it does so appear MB (among others) are sticking periscopes up out of the "bomb shelters" they seem to be hiding in. Most to all OEM's seem to be hiding behind the global warming hoax.

fintail

I am pretty sure there have been more moronic tweetstorms, bold-faced lies/alternative facts, and turmoil this calendar year than in the entire decade before. It's tiresome and embarrassing.

An even better ideal might be the diesel hybrids as seen in the more evolved European market - but I don't know the red tape involved with bringing those here. Diesel highway cruising with hybrid gridlock efficiency, seems to be the ideal.

ruking1

Indeed your first paragraph is true. Fake news is the rage!

For me, two issues would be a diesels & hybrids additional prices. I'm not sure of the cuurrent hybrid advantage, but I recall 20%. So (my) 2014 MB GLK 250 BT, 36-38 mpgs could be more like 43.2 - 45.6 mpg.

I'd hesitate, but 2017 Toyota Highlander/hybrid on fuelly.com are 21/29 mpg. Edmunds.com is very skeptical hybrids are worth it! It makes me wonder why EVs are a good buy, when one adds EV costs at twice the pmd:fuel price!? Oi

So indeed, IF it's a 38% current hybrid advantage, my T TDI's 36-38 mpg should be more like 49.68 - 52.44 mpg!!! Given similar B/E $$'s & time, it's pretty hard not to like! GLK 350 is more like 21 mpg PUG!

gagrice

fintail said:

A more appealing choice than hybrids and EVs for driving any substantial distance, without a doubt.

I am pretty sure the diesel lineup actually expanded under the false promise of hope and change, but I don't see the current regime of alternative facts doing anything to bring it back

EVs and Hybrids are not faring much better. Several getting the axe:

http://www3.forbes.com/business/15-cars-that-will-be-discontinued-for-2018/?utm_campaign=15-Cars-Discontinued-In-18-2017&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=referral

Michaell

Let's please stay away from the political discussions, and focus on diesels in the marketplace, shall we?

ruking1

It would appear that for the literal plethora of reasons, 2017 yearly sales of 17.6 M will hit the literal & proverbial wall. (2015 281.3 M PVF, 6.27%) it would appear that the auto OEMs are bracing for a 2018 MY . 6 M unit (3.4%) contraction. This contraction presents a lot of cruelty and opportunities!

Gasoline hybrids, EV's, natural gas, are & remain were niche markets & products @ best. Government subsidies don't come near to making EV them a reasonable alternative. Diesel PVF is @ 5% & has the capability for making a huge comeback! Used car sales (33 M) will probably increase and the prices should be over all lower. So I think the 2018 will present huge opportunities for really good new car deals.

gagrice

My GMC Canyon Duramax continues to be a magnet over in Pahrump. Stopped at a garage sale. The owner has a Colorado. He wanted the diesel and the dealer convinced him the wait for one would be too long. He has the V6 and is lucky when he gets 19 MPG. Made him upset when I told him my overall the first 3000 miles is 26.6 MPG. I just drove straight back to CA, and the computer says 31.8 MPG. Will fill it tomorrow and see how close it is to accurate. Only two stop and go places around Riverside on I 215. Rest was 75 MPH keeping with the flow of traffic.

ruking1

It seems like eitherTDI the Canyon or Touareg (depending on what you are doing) are right for the area I

andres3

gagrice said:

My GMC Canyon Duramax continues to be a magnet over in Pahrump. Stopped at a garage sale. The owner has a Colorado. He wanted the diesel and the dealer convinced him the wait for one would be too long. He has the V6 and is lucky when he gets 19 MPG. Made him upset when I told him my overall the first 3000 miles is 26.6 MPG. I just drove straight back to CA, and the computer says 31.8 MPG. Will fill it tomorrow and see how close it is to accurate. Only two stop and go places around Riverside on I 215. Rest was 75 MPH keeping with the flow of traffic.

I've noticed dealers will always be more negative towards cars not on the lot currently, versus cars already on their lot at the time.

xwesx

andres3 said:

I've noticed dealers will always be more negative towards cars not on the lot currently, versus cars already on their lot at the time.

Quite true! I think I shared the experience I had at the local Chevrolet place back in July regarding the Equinox diesel. I still haven't been back there to check out the new "2018" model (of any variant).

ruking1

The powers that be want more EV!? http://www.latimes.com/popular/#nt=tertiarynavbar

ruking1

I'm not sure what happened to the above link posting.

ruking1

Michaell said:

Let's please stay away from the political discussions, and focus on diesels in the marketplace, shall we?

I, like you wish the powers that be (CARB/EPA. Legislators, etc.), leave gasoline & diesel PVF products off their political hit lists! Yet, gasoline/execution ( it) is front & center on their agendas?

I am with Fintail tail on this, with a wait-and-see attitude on what DJT POTUS wif ill do with CARB/EPA.

Please do not misconstrue, but I'm guessing that SoCA folks KNOW open spaces & cities great & small can burn down & in the proverbial New York minute!

But the CA wine country & other ares suffer greatly & MASSIVELY from environmental 40,000 ft policies and procedures ! Here is just one small ground & sea level example.

Electrical power was smashed and burned. Studies have also shown most CA fires are started by protected environmental items falling on transmission lines! Many to all cell phone towers servicing the area were rendered part to mostly out of commission. Cell phone use was severely choked off. So almost all took to recharging their BATTERY cellphones by starting up & idling their gasoline cars! So they want to put EV cars on home & area recharging? DAH ( if anybody can't see the implications here, don't call me, because I can't fix stupid) All of a sudden whole bunchs of people remembered why they used to have "LAND" lines.

fintail

Of course the powers-that-be want more EV. It soothes something in the soul of social-engineering SJW types, and I suspect a lot of them are invested in it and preach it for their own profit. It's a great way to export negative externalities to someone else's backyard, which is a hallmark of that demographic.

ruking1

Indeed, China (massively) leads the United States and the world in EV & battery powered transportation products! The articles I've read indicate recognizable brand names, like: GM, Renault, etc. Remember that China's frail electrical infrastructure is powered mainly by coal fired power plants, all the better to implement EV. & battery technologies. If you will remember, COAL fired power plants technologies were brought and licensed to China by WJC POTUS. 20 Jan 1993 to 20 Jan 2001.

As I have mentioned in others posts, Afghanistan is the country that has the rare (rare earth) minerals needed for the battery production! Even the CIA in unclassified documents indicate $10 T in overall mining assets. This does not include the yearly opium related production. So are the "environmental agendas" the real reasons behind/ for bleeding American (mostly) blood and treasure in the fight for Afghanistan!? Chinese companies have already negotiated mining, transportation, production & manufacturing contracts.

imidazol97

SJW?
What does that mean?

ruking1

DJT are initials for Donald J. Trump.

kyfdx

We are going to take a break from this discussion.

gagrice

Loaded the GMC Canyon diesel down to where you could tell by the handling. Still got 29.3 MPG from San Diego to Pahrump NV. That was with Sinclair diesel bought in San Diego for $3.15 per gallon. Still paying $2.72 on CC here in Pahrump. Hope I don't have to make many more trips moving. Looks like that station is now $3.35 with the new road tax. I am loving the GMC Canyon. 4500 miles over the last two months since it was new.

ruking1

I’m glad the GMC Canyon TDI does what you need! A 27,000 mile per year pace/29.3 mpg/20 mpg = 922 gal-1,350 gal. consumed. This = 428 gal saved. Over 12 years (avg PVFs age) doubters can do the math. 2017 + 12 years puts that into 2029 & 324,000 miles.

ruking1

Heck, I might have to eat less of those $1.50 COSTCO hot dogs with drink to get $2.99 ULSD vs $2.79 RUG/$3.09 PUG? Folsom, CA. Oh well, how about those Houston Astros?

Both my wife & daughter got tapped to attend an industry meeting/conference in Nashville, TN. I jokingly suggested the trip in the 2014 MB GLK 250 BT. Ah.... no. Heading up to South Lake Tahoe is more like it?

fintail

I'm in Germany now, diesels diesels everywhere.

And my diesel threw a little tantrum about 3 hours before I left, giving me a "Auxiliary Battery Malfunction" error. As one would expect, it's not an engine fault, rather a quirk in the W212 that doesn't appear to be rare.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

I’m glad the GMC Canyon TDI does what you need! A 27,000 mile per year pace/29.3 mpg/20 mpg = 922 gal-1,350 gal. consumed. This = 428 gal saved. Over 12 years (avg PVFs age) doubters can do the math. 2017 + 12 years puts that into 2029 & 324,000 miles.

I would say the current driving will end when the move is finished. Funny we rarely had house guests living in San Diego. We are booked up into January here in Pahrump. Must be the cheap gas. The mover was very happy to fill his Chevy Dually PU with diesel for the drive back to CA.

gagrice

Made our first trip to Costco in Las Vegas. We were both surprised how pleasant the drive is. NO freeways only state highways 160/159. First 30 miles is 4 lane 70 MPH, with no traffic at 9 AM. Last 20 miles going on 159 is through Red Rock Canyon. Posted 50 MPH, most drive 60 MPH. From home to Costco is 58 miles, one hour 10 minutes. That included slowing for the burros on the highway. Costco is right in the center of Summerlin shopping district. Even have s See's candy store there. Makes for an easy day of shopping and NO freeways to deal with. Never get into the Las Vegas tourist area. The pass on 160 is 5600 feet elevation. May have to deal with snow in the winter? As the locals say "over the hump to Pahrump".

ruking1

fintail said:

I'm in Germany now, diesels diesels everywhere.

And my diesel threw a little tantrum about 3 hours before I left, giving me a "Auxiliary Battery Malfunction" error. As one would expect, it's not an engine fault, rather a quirk in the W212 that doesn't appear to be rare.

Indeed, each has their own quirks. It’s good that we have boards to report these kinds of diesel issues: small to large.

Please give us the 411 on TDI’s we don’t have here in the USA! Let’s see what diesels some oems will bring to the USA market, 2019 & 2020!

We here on this board wish you a great trip!

ruking1

gagrice said:

ruking1 said:

I’m glad the GMC Canyon TDI does what you need! A 27,000 mile per year pace/29.3 mpg/20 mpg = 922 gal-1,350 gal. consumed. This = 428 gal saved. Over 12 years (avg PVFs age) doubters can do the math. 2017 + 12 years puts that into 2029 & 324,000 miles.

I would say the current driving will end when the move is finished. Funny we rarely had house guests living in San Diego. We are booked up into January here in Pahrump. Must be the cheap gas. The mover was very happy to fill his Chevy Dually PU with diesel for the drive back to CA.

Yes, mileage can/does pile up when new. The (my) 2003 VW Jetta TDI was on a 25,000 miles per year pace for (the first) four years. Then, it tapered off to now (yrly avg) 13,600 miles.

Off topic of response to your thread & TDI’s: BUT It seems that both Lexus & Toyota, my old standby seems to lock up the reliability and durability badges, year after year.

I wish they made it easy like VW/Porsche to offer diesels in Lexus/Toyota mid size CUV’s, etc.

fintail

Or diesel non-issues. My diesel car has a hiccup likely related to overly complex German electronics, not the diesel part of it. That's a good thing.

Around here, you name it, it exists as a diesel. Insanely diverse market here. I hope more will come back in a couple years, especially for MB,

ruking1 said:

Indeed, each has their own quirks. It’s good that we have boards to report these kinds of diesel issues: small to large.

Please give us the 411 on TDI’s we don’t have here in the USA! Let’s see what diesels some oems will bring to the USA market, 2019 & 2020!

We here on this board wish you a great trip!

gagrice

fintail said:

Or diesel non-issues. My diesel car has a hiccup likely related to overly complex German electronics, not the diesel part of it. That's a good thing.

Around here, you name it, it exists as a diesel. Insanely diverse market here. I hope more will come back in a couple years, especially for MB,

ruking1 said:

Indeed, each has their own quirks. It’s good that we have boards to report these kinds of diesel issues: small to large.

Please give us the 411 on TDI’s we don’t have here in the USA! Let’s see what diesels some oems will bring to the USA market, 2019 & 2020!

We here on this board wish you a great trip!

Germans have made some bold laws about going to all EVs. I will believe it when I see it. Easy to kick the can down the road to 2030 and feel like you are doing a great thing. Bet they are still clinging to diesel vehicles when that date comes and goes. Like CA going to 10% EV in late 1990s. Here 20 years later I doubt 1% of the vehicles on the road are pure EV.

xwesx

fintail said:

I'm in Germany now, diesels diesels everywhere.

And my diesel threw a little tantrum about 3 hours before I left, giving me a "Auxiliary Battery Malfunction" error. As one would expect, it's not an engine fault, rather a quirk in the W212 that doesn't appear to be rare.

Something to which you can look forward upon your return! In the meantime, enjoy your travels!

ruking1

gagrice said:

fintail said:

Or diesel non-issues. My diesel car has a hiccup likely related to overly complex German electronics, not the diesel part of it. That's a good thing.

Around here, you name it, it exists as a diesel. Insanely diverse market here. I hope more will come back in a couple years, especially for MB,

ruking1 said:

Indeed, each has their own quirks. It’s good that we have boards to report these kinds of diesel issues: small to large.

Please give us the 411 on TDI’s we don’t have here in the USA! Let’s see what diesels some oems will bring to the USA market, 2019 & 2020!

We here on this board wish you a great trip!

Germans have made some bold laws about going to all EVs. I will believe it when I see it. Easy to kick the can down the road to 2030 and feel like you are doing a great thing. Bet they are still clinging to diesel vehicles when that date comes and goes. Like CA going to 10% EV in late 1990s. Here 20 years later I doubt 1% of the vehicles on the road are pure EV.

To agree would only state the obvious!!! It’s hard to take environmentalists & governments seriously when even they do not buy the vehicles they want to cramp in your/s wallets! Or more literally, strap to ‘our’ butts! The examples are too numerous to even mention. LA County cannot even measure the changes wrought by the highest percentage of EV and gas hybrid, natural gas vehicles.(7.75 M PVF) Coincidently, neither can the rest of the state of CA. Now, IF they can NOT do that with the small CA population of 33.5 million vehicles, hows that happening with 2015 281.3 M USA vehicles?

The latest FL, TX, LA, CA, NV, PR (apologies, if I’ve left anywhere out) natural/made-made disasters continues to highlight the total bankruptcy & folly of going to a single FORCED & unwanted EV solution, rather than a series of solutions, like: %’s of diesels, etc. I mean really ladies and gentlemen, IF we are going to be totally overwhelmed with environmental pollution like wildfire products due to environmental policies, what are a few more n0x’s alledgedly maxed out by pvf diesels?

But @ the same time, battery factories like Tesla’s in Reno, NV, are popping up all over in China. I guess it’s time to monetize all that USA blood and treasure expended in Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc., Afghanistan for China to get the (rare earth EV) mining contracts!? What do we get? A good portion of Afghanistan’s yearly opium products?

fintail

With the way cars age out of the fleet slower than ever these days, and the way EV producers seem to stumble and make excuses, even if no internal combustion cars were made from this day forward, it would take at least a decade to really "go" EV. And with no serious work being made on that ridiculous goal, I don't see it happening in the near term.

I didn't see any new-to-me diesels today, but I did see an entire load of new VW commercial rigs with what seemed like every possible body configuration - weird double cab van things, van-pickup combos, etc. All diesel, no doubt.

I've seen some new style E-class already in the taxi fleet, definitely diesel. Also an interesting car to me, a prior E wagon, facelift model, LED lighting, Distronic/drivers assist (both expensive options in the US), but a debadged model with a cloth interior. This is likely a small 4 cylinder diesel, maybe even the 136hp model. Fun.

ruking1

I do get that sedans: small to midsize are popular in the European PVF. Nobody posts the #/%’s. Now I do know that the European PVF is slightly bigger than the USA PVF’s at 281.3 M, 2015. I do also understand that Euro diesel versions PVF are in excess of 50%.

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Small to midsize sedan’s in the US PVF are less than 25%

fintail

For larger cars, say E/5 and above, diesel probably outnumbers gasoline 10:1.

I saw a new style E police car today. Probably a big diesel.

ruking1

Here’s an easy one, gasoline police cars & cuv’s in the USA markets!

The policies of taking away diesel choices in USA markets are stupid in shortsightedness, for a host of reasons! Let’s start with one barrel of oil yielding 19 gal of gasoline & 13 gals of diesel. A 95-97% gasoline PVF uses far more barrels of oil than with a 50% to 60% diesel PVF.

gagrice

Thinking about the 4-6 San Diego Sheriff's Ford Explorers parked at Janet's eatery every morning. All of them idling to keep $100k worth of electronics running. How many millions a year would the tax payer save if the fleet was diesel instead of gas guzzlers. No way they could go with EVs. The electronics would drain the batteries just while they have their meeting over breakfast. Gas engines make no sense to me. I will only buy diesels. Two now in the garage among the boxes etc with moving.

ruking1

Using the patrol civilian cuv’s as examples, electrical car needs climbs steadily to exponentially more energy use, not less. It also was not a scant decade ago that 29 miles per gallon in a compact gasoline pick up truck was a pipe dream. Advantage diesel!

gagrice

My 2006 GMC 1500 Sierra V8 hybrid was the same length, weight and towing capacity. So Mid size is kind of a misnomer. I was lucky when it got 16 MPG. I hated the auto stop feature. Engine would stop when you would slow to go around a corner, the pause waiting for the engine to fire back up would cause wheel spin. I was so lucky to find someone that just had to have a hybrid PU truck. Good riddance.

ruking1

I’m not sure why the “ ‘hybrid is the answer’ vs ‘bad diesel’ ” fake news keeps going on & on.

The data you’ve presented (16 mpg/29 mpg) indicates diesel posts 81.25% better mpg than a gasoline hybrid.

Pandora’s box has indeed been opened. I’m not sure why anybody getting 29 mpg would want to go back to 16 mpg.( a.k.a. lose 45%)?

On the flipside, we've seen a whole lot of resistance going the other way. In other words, somebody getting 16 mpg gasoline normally has tremendous resistance going to a diesel getting 29 mpg.

The wife did not like the auto stop feature on a brand new gasoline MB sedan loaner for 7 days at all.

fintail

Bluetecs after 2014 or 2015 have start/stop, too. A simple button turns it off, but you have to do it with every initial start.

ruking1

Any words on diesel start/stop mpg savings?

kyfdx

We have stop/start on our 2017 X3. It's been on all the BMW loaners we've had for the last few years. We always turned it off. But, now that we own it, we've been leaving it active, and you get used to it pretty quick. System retains that you've deactivated it, so you don't have to do it, every time.

We've heard it saves 0.5 MPG, but that was when it first came out (2012, I think). Of course this is for a gas engine.

ruking1

That’s pretty much low hanging fruit, to be sure. But diesel should be anywhere from a low of 30% to 80% better,= .9 mpg. One can get that by: better right foot control, proper tire inflation, or lower viscosity oil within specifications of course.

fintail

In Prague now, lots of TDis here - Skoda TDi, as they are a VW with a different body and slightly lower prices. Also saw a diesel Range Rover Sport and Jeep Wrangler, mixed in with the usual Germans. Diesel doesn't seem to be going anywhere yet.