What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

The wife & daughter are staying @ the hotel within eyeshot & two softball throws of the CMA awards show. Yee Haw! They both got in close to where one of the stars sent a hello segment to the Ellen show. I’m getting this is music & video Hollywood East. I probably should not say this, but access is both free & easy!

The attitude toward diesel seems to be: choose what you want and need !

fintail

Saw some odd diesels today - Chrysler minivans (built in Austria, I think), Ford Ranger (Euro style), PT Cruiser.

ruking1

I’m sure you’ve a frame of reference for “ odd to old diesels”. But diesel Chrysler minivans and Ford Ranger and PT cruisers make all the sense in the world, albeit NOT in US markets (banned). I asked a close relative, who gets into Prague (from US ) a lot IF 50% diesel pvf is a noticeable issue. By the response, it is absolutely not noticeable, nada!

Indeed the 2003 Jetta TDI with 186,000 miles presents ZERO emissions issues.

Non diesel related; local city permit to put in Tesla recharger $500., $600. Labor. Currently that would give me 13,200 miles or almost one year of commute mileage.

Need to get estimates on Tesla battery back up circuits like ; back up for “almost scheduled” power outages, for freezers, refrigerators, etc.

fintail

Yep, diesels just makes sense above a certain vehicle size and weight. A diesel hybrid would be good too. I won't even get started on Tesla, just not a fan.

I saw a good diesel today, another PT Cruiser, but the epitome of a boomer with bad taste, one with wood/vinyl siding and wide whites. Hilariously bad. Also a Dodge Nitro diesel - Mopar was getting into Europe long before FCA.

ruking1

If it sells in that market, that is really the name of the game! Who’s going to semi customize something you like with zero demands/markets?

But then when I ordered the (gasoline) 2001 Z06 Corvette, Chevrolt/GM offered to paint it a non offered color that year,which I had in mind. In the 2001 ZO6 history, there are two of that color. Mine could’ve been number three. The concept I had was just a few more gallons of metallic colored paint. Oh well.

Diesel motor (touring comes to mind) bikes are awesome too!

fintail

The vans seemed to do OK in Europe, I have seen many over the years. I think they seem more solid and car-like than Euro brand minivans, and are competitively priced. I wonder if a diesel minivan would fly in NA, or of the demographic would be scared of it.

I am sure diesel bikes are good in specific applications (military comes to mind), but I think electric bikes make sense - that's one realm where I am not as cynical on EVs.

ruking1

VW miss-manage the diesel efforts in the US markets, not doing compact to large CUV’s from the get-go. Don’t take that to mean that I am not appreciative of the VW diesel cars that I have bought.

rickdon

Not car, but I have a diesel truck!

ruking1

fintail said:

The vans seemed to do OK in Europe, I have seen many over the years. I think they seem more solid and car-like than Euro brand minivans, and are competitively priced. I wonder if a diesel minivan would fly in NA, or of the demographic would be scared of it.

I am sure diesel bikes are good in specific applications (military comes to mind), but I think electric bikes make sense - that's one realm where I am not as cynical on EVs.

The “vans” in the US markets are an example of hiding in plain sight. MB has been guietly (zzzzzzzzzzzzz) grinding out variations of the Sprinter TDI van. I’ve seen no published MB TDI percentages. However, I’m just guessing TDI %’s are pretty big. MB has brought another US market gasoline smaller van. I think it’s called the MB Metris.

Of course, this brings up questions to environmentalists. Why no gas hybrid, EV? Are there any guesses as to which would be highly favored? I think most of us on this board know the answers to that. In London, UK the old and new ( Nissan taxi cabs, diesel engines with MT to boot ) taxi cabs are diesels !? The average London taxi cab ( I have read) gets between 70,000-90,000 MILES per year. So a five year old taxi cab could have easily between 350,000 to 450,000 miles.

iluvmysephia1

Some of the Sprinter cabs are kind of cool. Sage Rentals of Coldwell Banker Lake Chelan Properties (our leasing Manager) operates Chrysler made utility vans. I wonder what kind of a rig for a couple with an Akita Chow and a Pomeranian they would be. Never mind - with all the room inside they'd be a great choice. Do they come with a hemi? Diesel, too?

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

Some of the Sprinter cabs are kind of cool. Sage Rentals of Coldwell Banker Lake Chelan Properties (our leasing Manager) operates Chrysler made utility vans. I wonder what kind of a rig for a couple with an Akita Chow and a Pomeranian they would be. Never mind - with all the room inside they'd be a great choice. Do they come with a hemi? Diesel, too?

You might want to look here for more information

fintail

There's a not-insignificant demographic who doesn't like the height and truck-ness of a Sprinter, these are the people who still buy traditional minivans. I imagine there'd be a market for diesel ones, as these buyers tend to be very practical and somewhat traditional. Metris is a good alternative, but I believe is just a gasser.

The durability issue you mention also favors diesels. No worries about expensive battery issues, and less electronics to start with.

I'm taking a taxi in the morning, I wonder if it will be a diesel Skoda.

ruking1

Indeed, ask the taxi driver how many miles on the taxi and how old.

iluvmysephia1

That does it - I'll take a Mercedes one. They're actually my favorite of the "family utility vans." Perfect way to go diesel, too.

ruking1

If I was a Santa Rosa, CA home owner rebuilding, a MB Sprinter camper (any works here) comes to mind. It’s grey water, water, natural gas & electrical systems could be hooked up on the property, with the rebuild in progress. The city is unlikely to let you suspend water, sewer, garbage, electrical accounts while one rebuilds. Indeed this would be a great solar system function test! Yes, you probably guessed it will be outlawed by the very same environmentalists!? Keep in mind approximately 9,000 homes burned down in the conflagration.

There are a great many towns in the US without 9,000 population. So, assuming 2 to 4 people per building, we are talking 18,000 to 36,000 population. An admittedly calloused view might be: this is just another case of urban renewal ?

ruking1

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/best-diesel-cars/?ref=yfp

Some diesels to ponder?

fintail

Taxi was a B180d, 2017 model, basic Euro spec - no nav, cloth, etc. Driver was fine it with, and we bounded around the streets of Prague. Start/stop was barely detectable, and the car seemed to have some pull off the line - but the local driving method is "floor it", so it could have just been the driver.

I'm now in a mode of transport where electric works - moving along at about 100 mph on a smooth train. More of those public goods that create a higher quality of life in some areas.

gagrice

fintail said:

Taxi was a B180d, 2017 model, basic Euro spec - no nav, cloth, etc. Driver was fine it with, and we bounded around the streets of Prague. Start/stop was barely detectable, and the car seemed to have some pull off the line - but the local driving method is "floor it", so it could have just been the driver.

I'm now in a mode of transport where electric works - moving along at about 100 mph on a smooth train. More of those public goods that create a higher quality of life in some areas.

Diesel likely generates the Electricity that drives the wheels on the train engine. Bet they don't have the smog control we have on our diesel vehicles.

ruking1

Indeed! I’ve also posted more than once that larger motivators have normally NO/NONE to little emissions mitigation. The very trains being ridden are the very same “business friendly” (given a total emissions pass) vilified by a few on this board Coal fired & nuclear plants provide the reliability & durability behind electric train operations.

So if they fail (by law) to have ANY emissions controls, at all, it really begs the question: are they as dangerous as many environmentalists, et al., would want to scare you to believe?

Diesels in the PVF’s are ALL emissions controlled.

fintail

Definitely right about the smog control. Heck, even greenie Germany still gets massive amounts of its power from coal. However, I suspect it pollutes no more than similar operations in NA, but this way (powering social goods like advanced transit networks that exist in legitimately developed nations), people actually see more benefit from it. The real "business friendly" joke is the lesser standards for "commercial" diesel motor vehicles in the US, which are then often used as personal vehicles as well. Maybe it'll trickle down lolol, it's gotta happen sometime, right? Or not.

Saw a gasoline X6 in Vienna today, 6cyl, someone has iffy taste in both design and propulsion. Why someone would choose that engine in this market, I don't know.

ruking1

It is fun to dig @ your digging. However, one could make the case of an inside joke.

So let me be clear, taking trains, airplanes, boats, etc. even commercial, private transportations are economic enactments of the 8 to 1 multiplier effect!

Europe would be a FAR worse off place, if it wasn’t for the ability of (world) people/s to (circulation) come and visit and/or do business. So for example, why are the Castro Bros emperors courting tourism? I’m sure they will want to turn Cuba into a Cuban Disneyisland ! Socialism has been bankrupt for a very long time.

Or perhaps the So California auto chop shops want to get ahold of the America 50s era cars?

fintail

What's your point? The US would also be a far worse off place if people didn't come to visit and/or do business. In fact, the US was in a more than roundabout way founded on related ideals. It's what made America great, before populist idiots and the semi-literate thought they could build something that never existed.

Actual socialism (or communism, or capitalism) doesn't exist. But some places have a higher quality of life than others. Mobility for all is a significant part of it. Diesel can help with that, as you know.

ruking1

Ive made the points! Indeed your US point is true. Indeed a lot of populist idiots in the semi literate want to take away mobility for all & build stuff that has no real chance of existing.

fintail

nah, no points

Yep, stuff with no chance, like walls and workable trickle down theory The current state of American public transit (and virtually all public goods in the US) does not help quality of life, and is a part of why the US does not lead in so many human development indices.

ruking1

Indeed, I know you don’t get it. Moving on....

We made it up to the South Tahoe, CA, in pretty close to a 210 mile commute, albeit a leisurely 3.25 hr time frame. More normally, I do the upgrade trip between 2.75 hrs to 3 hrs. The normal 3/4 choke points were in full Friday form, so no joy there.

Also to demonstrate how the environmentalists priorities are so out of kilter, wack & control, with no follow through, are, app 13% of the trees on the way up the Tahoe are sick, diseased, dead or dying. This is after tremendous & historic winter snow falls. This also means that another 13% of trees can also be thinned for long term maximum health. If one guessed mitigation’s not happening, one is probably dead right. This does not decrease the fire danger, whether we have a drought or another winfall H2O season.

So diesel pvf emissions are so infinite intestinally small, it’s not even measurable. To wit, nobody has done the estimations as to how regular and almost normal wildfires do to people with LUNG related issues.

Before we left, we went to our tire guru. We only had 24 psi in the tires!? (last done by dealer) So he pumped it up to 3 psi over the door placard (38/42 psi). Got the normal 36 mpg.

To veterans, thank you for your service to our country!

andres3

fintail said:

nah, no points

Yep, stuff with no chance, like walls and workable trickle down theory The current state of American public transit (and virtually all public goods in the US) does not help quality of life, and is a part of why the US does not lead in so many human development indices.

What about California's high-speed train that might get built by the year 3000, and go all of 70 MPH because in CA, speed kills.

andres3

fintail said:

Taxi was a B180d, 2017 model, basic Euro spec - no nav, cloth, etc. Driver was fine it with, and we bounded around the streets of Prague. Start/stop was barely detectable, and the car seemed to have some pull off the line - but the local driving method is "floor it", so it could have just been the driver.

I'm now in a mode of transport where electric works - moving along at about 100 mph on a smooth train. More of those public goods that create a higher quality of life in some areas.

Sounds like I'd fit right in with that driving style and method.

ruking1

Yup, 100 mph trains are soooo WW2, aka, 72 years old & ago! European trains need an immediate upgrade to those 300 mph Japan electric bullet trains jobs ($67 billion for CA high speed rail to trillions $$’s) ? ! It will probably support a couple of to many more more coal fired plants!

I’m amazed that there is absolutely no information on what kind of energy demands California’s high-speed 250 mph? rails will make. Yee haw!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail

fintail

This wasn't a high speed/express train, just a normal train. 100 mph indeed isn't special. The 200 mph German trains on the other hand, that's the kind of infrastructure you'll find in legitimately developed areas. Places where diesel also has many friends

fintail

Floor it then slam on the brakes because you only have a block until you encounter traffic. Oh, and you'll end up with scrapes, a price paid for living in an area built before cars

This environment isn't the best for diesels, other than getting them to warm up to a good operating temperature. I am in Vienna now, and have seen Toyota and Hyundai hybrid taxis along with the ubiquitous MBs. A bit of honking too, and almost nobody holding a phone while driving. It's like a weird parallel universe.

andres3 said:

Sounds like I'd fit right in with that driving style and method.

fintail

Or maybe move on because you don't get it

Thinning of forests is a big area where the greenies have stumbled. I shudder to think of fires exacerbated because they cry at any attempt of being proactive. The same people cry about cars, but don't like to face that 40 shipping freighters put out more fumes than all cars combined.

Saw an E200 Bluetec today, don't know if my car would be more fun with 50+ less hp, but I doubt it

ruking1 said:

Indeed, I know you don’t get it. Moving on....

We made it up to the South Tahoe, CA, in pretty close to a 210 mile commute, albeit a leisurely 3.25 hr time frame. More normally, I do the upgrade trip between 2.75 hrs to 3 hrs. The normal 3/4 choke points were in full Friday form, so no joy there. ues.

Before we left, we went to our tire guru. We only had 24 psi in the tires!? (last done by dealer) So he pumped it up to 3 psi over the door placard (38/42 psi). Got the normal 36 mpg.

To veterans, thank you for your service to our country!

ruking1

For sure, it’s a more of because YOU don’t get it! You can condescend all you will about how superior Germany is, or more specifically it’s public transportation; but even you aren’t trying to immigrate there. Indeed, it’s having a super hard time absorbing the 1M + refugees it has in years past let in. The other, new US transportation projects like what you covet aren’t happening soon.

Romney got vilified for it, but truly 46% of the US population pays little to no Federal income taxes. Those that want or need those kinds of transportation systems are probably not anxious about taxing/or voting to tax themselves to make it happen.

Michaell

Folks, it was the political posts that caused us to temporarily shut down this thread.

If these posts continue, it will get shut down again - with no guarantee that it will get re-opened.

ruking1

Yup! How about them diesels? Minus - the VWA group. https://www.edmunds.com/diesel/

Michaell

@elias - come on over and talk to us about your new Cruze diesel stick shift.

fintail

Ah yeah, the "love it or leave it" line of thought from entitled spoiled boomers, never fails

If one looks at taxes including healthcare costs, my counterpart here probably pays no more than I do. That's what happens when a place lacks large swaths of temporarily embarrassed millionaires who cling to failed economic policy.

Too bad Rocky gave up here, he could talk a lot about his Cruze diesel. I wonder what it would take for Chevy/GM to drop that unit into some other cars - they already have the engine, and so many cars are 4-bangers anyway. Maybe the engineering costs would be more than predicted gains in incremental sales.

ruking1

“Love it or leave it” attitude? No! Hardly! Again, I’ve already told you the (one) point of truth you can’t see or won’t acknowledge. So do I love it? Absolutely! Would I leave it? Absolutely! (with TMI caveats)

I’d hate for you to live your life in perpetual disappointment, sans your short trips to Germany! So evidently, by your own post, it is not as bad here, as your perpetual & entitled whinings would indicate.

The Cruise diesel is an interesting bird. I would hope it stands the test of time, like the 2003 VW Jetta TDI at 190,000 miles, the 225,000 (15,000 miles/15 yrs.) miles being the more instructive. If Chevy/GM came out with V6 3.0 L or a V8 4.0, 5.0 L TDI, it would be a no-brainer for larger portions of its more profitable lines.

houdini1

fintail said:

nah, no points

Yep, stuff with no chance, like walls and workable trickle down theory The current state of American public transit (and virtually all public goods in the US) does not help quality of life, and is a part of why the US does not lead in so many human development indices.

And yet, given the choice, I don't think very many people, unless they were in some type of extraordinary circumstances, would choose to give up their U.S. citizenship.

fintail

Yet quite a few do every year, especially to Switzerland. And we hear constant threats from the Randian moron set that there will be a mass exodus if we don't continue pity-the-rich tax policy. But this isn't a political forum, so we should stop

houdini1 said:

And yet, given the choice, I don't think very many people, unless they were in some type of extraordinary circumstances, would choose to give up their U.S. citizenship.

fintail

That's not what love it or leave it means, but that's moot. A boomer no doubt living large off public sector funds via a fat unearned pension, winning the lottery of cashing in on the greatest asset appreciation period in American history, calling someone entitled - hilarious. Almost as funny as thinking moving is as easy as jumping on a plane. Back to diesel, please

A 6 cyl diesel would also work in full sized consumer grade trucks, no need for the big one.

ruking1 said:

“Love it or leave it” attitude? No! Hardly! Again, I’ve already told you the (one) point of truth you can’t see or won’t acknowledge. So do I love it? Absolutely! Would I leave it? Absolutely! (with TMI caveats)

I’d hate for you to live your life in perpetual disappointment, sans your short trips to Germany! So evidently, by your own post, it is not as bad here, as your perpetual & entitled whinings would indicate.

The Cruise diesel is an interesting bird. I would hope it stands the test of time, like the 2003 VW Jetta TDI at 190,000 miles, the 225,000 (15,000 miles/15 yrs.) miles being the more instructive. If Chevy/GM came out with V6 3.0 L or a V8 4.0, 5.0 L TDI, it would be a no-brainer for larger portions of its more profitable lines.

ruking1

I’m glad you now know your characterization was erroneous & moot!

Well ‘your need” should really be what the markets will bear. I would suspect that truck (1500 series) buyers/owners would probably choose the higher torque options (450, 550, 600 # ft of torque) also. While I’m not a large pick up truck buyer, there are a whole host of segments that will spend 40,000, $50,000 $60,000, $70,000 for a pick up truck.

As an aside to folks that cite the extra cost of diesel, the brouhaha about diesels costing more are indeed mood, in many segments.

fintail

Not wrong here. Ford is selling plenty of large trucks with smaller engines now, GM could do the same, but historically might not be the trendsetter when it comes to technological progress. Sometimes what the market will bear can be a dangerous thing.

For even normal full sized trucks, diesel fuel costs could be recouped almost as quickly as for large cars that require PUG in gasoline applications - the mileage improvement has to be substantial. A co-worker had a big V8 Ford and moved to a new 6cyl Ford - decent gain. I bet he could easily beat the 6cyl mileage, but with more torque, in a similar size diesel.

ruking1

Perhaps you didn’t catch that Ford is planning on coming out with pu truck 1 series diesel. It, as you probably know has 2/3 series V8 diesels.

The posted Edmunds link cites about 35% better mpg for RAM 3.0 L diesel over RUG.

fintail

Nope, didn't see that. Will be it be a non-V8? I think the typical suburban commuter PU buyer would find a smaller displacement engine to be more than exceptional for all of their realistic needs.

Competing with the RAM would be something, too. Those have been diesel leaders for eons, albeit large engines.

ruking1

While you rarely post links, here’s one for 2018 Ford 150 (maybe 3.0L) diesel. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-ford-f-150-revealed-with-diesel-power-news

Yeah, I’m not really sure why you tout Ford’s technological progress, with what 500+ # weight loss (due to way high $$’s metal option) & negligible mpg gain?

Then, Ford is going to stick the old tried-and-true, but tweaked gasoline V8 5.0 L five point YO (sup bro) car engine, as an option in the (porky truck) F-150? Boy howdy! Dont tell me porky with wings can can now fly or get way better mpg with the gasoline 5.0L over a 5.0L TDI? I’m hoping not! (I like the much higher hp due to cool stickers).

So if the five point yo bro will be an option (in addition to a 3.0 L TDI) a 5.0L yo V-8 diesel is almost another no-brainer.

I hope this next link is not considered “too political “. Used coffee grounds to bio diesel ?

If ethanol % in a gal of gasoline goes ZERO % from 10 to 15%: mpg should rise ( omg we must NOT have that), unmitigated pollution from burned & production of ethanol should smack zero, oil barrel demand can drop precipitously! https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2017/11/12/u-s-biofuel-jeopardy/846811001/?ref=yfp.
Now with the pvf @ 60% diesel, oil barrel demand can drop another 60%

2014 MB GLK 250 BT, 37 mpg.

ruking1

I’m almost sure! SNAFU! Can you imagine cruising over that at 55 mph, since you’ve been paying your fuel taxes? Now Moonbeam wants $5.4 B more?

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/13/roadshow-where-will-money-from-new-gas-tax-go/?ref=yfp

fintail

The V8 will always be an option, as you say, the market needs it even if it is superfluous especially compared to diesels. With how much some of these rigs weigh, you will only get marginal mpg gains even with weight loss. I suspect a diesel of the same displacement would create more of a mpg gain than the weight loss. Combine them both, and the truck bro whiners won't be moaning and groaning via their own poor planning the next time gas prices spike, and we are overdo for another summer of 2008.

I've seen a few VW Anorak here lately, I suspect those are dream cars for more than a few people in NA. You know those will all be diesel.

Regarding gas taxes, those are just tricks to bail out underfunded bloated pensions, right?

ruking1

No, You represent that totally wrong, I am not saying that saying the gasoline V8 5.0L will always be an option. Your second to fourth sentences tells me you agree with that @ least that portion of what I have been saying. I’m not so sure that your assertion the truck bro’s will be upset, come the next rise in gas prices. Historically, fuel prices have risen and fallen. Of course, you get the applicable yippee and groans at predictable points. Most gasoline truck folks are used to paying whatever they pay. Indeed, there has been a big shift away from small - mid sedans TO large sedans - light trucks. The yearly PVF mileage (3.095 overall has been going steadily higher every year. https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx.

Who really knows anymore, what are the real average miles per gallon. So for example, No one thinks it is very disingenuous when a Chevrolet XL Suburban E 85 that gets maybe 15/20 mpg is rated at 100 mpg (epa calculation purposes)

However, the (est) yearly average miles driven are between 12,000 miles and 15,000 miles. So for somebody new to the site, might ask; what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Reverse the extra $5.4 B fuel tax rip off!

Yes, I would agree with your assertion that Fed/state/county/local union, etc.pensions are BLOATED & fubar; that’s a technical economic term. Get rid of those unions & cut in half pensions to start long term. Critical services can be handled any number of ways. If they don’t, falling off fiscal cliffs are almost lock step moves.

So for example, the military doesn’t have pension vesting until 19 years 366 days. They don’t pay near in those 19 years 366 days what markets or even governments pay. One way to adjust government’s head count, cut bloated salaries in half. Bring back “volunteering” like fire departments, Peace Corps, military draft, similar concepts.

fintail

That might be harsh, but at least make compensation closer to real market rates.

I have a good friend who has worked public and private sector in the same line of work. He sums it up along the lines that public sector has 80% of the salary, 50% of the work/stress, and 200% of the benefits.

We're just going to have more tax hikes, diesel fuel included, until the runaway train is apprehended.

xwesx

Lots of snow here over the last couple of days, which has been fun except for the fact that I have yet to be able to perform a vehicle recovery. I suppose that's good, when I really stop to think about it.

When I was out plowing yesterday, watching my dollars burn moment by moment as my old truck's 360 V8 guzzled fuel like a binge drinker, I idly pondered whether it might be a practical thing to attach a plow to something like Gary's Colorado....