What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice

Was she a guest at Front Sight? I have not visited yet. Have friends in San Diego that go every year. I can just drive 5 miles out into BLM and set up and spend all the money I want. Unlike CA.

ruking1

No. But like you said, head out to the desert (known shooting areas) & shoot to ones hearts content.

fintail

I brought back a pile of car magazines from Europe (mostly Germany) and have started to read them. There's a short diesel story in Auto Motor und Sport about cars with the best NOx emissions - apparently a big deal. Surprising winner was the BMW 520d, with MB E220d coming in just behind it. A Golf apparently did the best for cars without urea injection or similar secondary emissions cleaning (if I am reading it right, lots of weird acronyms and compound words in German technical lit).

And if the me me me generation is going to laugh at Antifa, they should also maybe not laugh when they realize literal fascists have weaseled their way into advisory positions over the past year or so. Just as diesel emissions are an insignificant spec in the world of pollution evils, one worries me a lot more than the other

fintail

This wonder wagon was on the showroom floor at the MB Niederlassung / dealer attached to the MB Museum in Unterturkheim. A C220d 4Matic wagon. Yes, brown diesel manual wagon. Some people in the hipster automotive "journalist" (term used very lightly) community would have a seizure over this:



I'd prefer more frills and a slushbox, but an AWD C diesel wagon is the one model I wish we had here that isn't on any horizon.

ruking1

2nd amendment rights are there precisely to protect against the likes of AntiFA & those employing them. So your characterizations are wrong on every count. They are not there for the large anti gun advocates to rally against, domestic shooting violence, hunting, target practice, etc., even though those are some of the many & varied applications. Indeed, the anti diesel sentiments are taken from the very same anti playbook.

I’m not sure why one would want the MB C220d 4matic (station wagon, 4 door sedan) over here when not even the advocator would buy one?

fintail

That's actually the one I would want to buy. Well, I would prefer the C250d for more hp, but the AWD diesel C wagon is the one I see as a long term car, custom order it and keep it a decade or more.

That reminds me, on the road, I saw a prior gen C-class C350 CDi - the big diesel, which would be quite swift in the smaller car. I think that model is quite rare.

houdini1

ruking1 said:

I get the local LEO’s do not appear to act like the threat is ‘imminent” nor dare I say credible from this suspected “guy”, even after investigation? Even his descriptions are all over the spectrum. Geez where’s Fox & Mulder when you need them? It makes you wonder what beer brand was left as evidence? Shape shifting alien DNA, from a pinch between one’s cheek & gums?

My daughter was just recently out in the Las Vegas, NV desert functioning some “pieces” & enjoying her, “all of youz’s” USA’s # 2 amendment right. Then comes the dirty side ! ...CLEANING!

AntiFA can exercise first amendment rights out there. But unless there’s a CNN camera crew documenting, whose going to know, let alone care. Out to & back from the desert in the 2003 VW Jetta TDI. Well, it doesn’t have the suspension travel and ground clearance that a CUV/SUV has.....

That Art Bell story sounded like he may be slightly paranoid. I noted that the article was about 2 years old.

gagrice

Locals say he spends time with his wife and young child. Much at her home in the Philippines. Time to retire when you are 72.

gagrice

Speaking of diesel. I have come to the conclusion the diesel fuel I am buying in California has less energy than the diesel I have been getting from Smith's in Pahrump, NV. Every other tank full is Smith's. Most of my driving is trips back and forth to CA moving. So I am loaded down driving to NV. That could account for the consistent 2 MPG less. However, I drive much faster empty going back to San Diego. My overall mileage for 5724 miles is 26.9 MPG on Fuelly. Hard to complain with that on a 4x4 PU rated at 6200 lbs.

iluvmysephia1

I guess Bell is still here. This is an interesting story from local paper.


Art Bell was historically a bit paranoid. Perhaps he has a right ta be - he is pretty well known and there are a lot of kooks out there. I sure like Coast-ta-Coast with Art Bell better than with George Noory. Although, in all fairness to George Noory, who I think does a really good job, I am more familiar with Art Bell's radio delivery and personality. It must've been the 90's when I started listening to Art Bell. Maybe the mid-90's?

fintail

Oh look, witty unhinged old man edited more of his political screed after the fact. Edmunds software dorks - limit the edit function to an hour, PLEASE. The second amendment some so dearly cling to (while likely being able to talk about no other parts of the constitution) is also to ward off some of the types who have had legitimate (per legal sense) advisory roles in the past year. I am much more leery of Bannon and Miller than some masked protesters who have accomplished nothing and will continue to do so.

Comparing antifa to anti-diesel is also amusing, seeing as some of the least fascist places in the world have the most embrace of diesel. Nice try though.

I could imagine CA diesel having water or orange juice in it to make diesel less attractive and to get more people into "zero emissions" EVs. Speaking of that, with the victim mentality types whining about VWs "clean diesel" claims, why is there no action against the Leaf actually wearing a "zero emissions" badge? That's deceptive labeling if I have ever seen it.

ruking1

Tis good the editing gets under ones’ crawl.

It can’t be the curse it’s made out by some to be young, (under) appreciated, (mis) guided & angry! But surely, landlords make monies from this discontent. So should you? Worst case, buy ones’ own home? Screed? Don’t like it? Don’t read it. It beats young oblique spew, except for fish chumming..

It begs the question, what other amendments were of interest? @ least you were made aware of two: 1. AntiFA, in the free speech context in wide-open desert spaces (sans audience, aka, no big deal) 2. Traveling in the TDI to/fro cited desert spaces for umbrella 2nd amendment interests: fun target practice.

On your paragraph 2, continuing with the phony characterizations!? They were only compared in your mind, speaking of being unhinged, at an early age. But using Art Bell as an example, just because he’s paranoid doesn’t mean nobody’s out to get him.

Some of where you consider the least facist places in the world had to get the facist stuffing kicked, ending in 1945. Trust me, I wasn’t there. Some parts of those areas needed recovery into the 1980’s. I’m not sure I would have liked too many 1960’s/1970’s/1980’s diesels. I drove a 1985 MB 300 d (W123) extensively, sans turbo & was duly & massively underwhelmed.

ruking1

gagrice said:

Speaking of diesel. I have come to the conclusion the diesel fuel I am buying in California has less energy than the diesel I have been getting from Smith's in Pahrump, NV. Every other tank full is Smith's. Most of my driving is trips back and forth to CA moving. So I am loaded down driving to NV. That could account for the consistent 2 MPG less. However, I drive much faster empty going back to San Diego. My overall mileage for 5724 miles is 26.9 MPG on Fuelly. Hard to complain with that on a 4x4 PU rated at 6200 lbs.

I would think the proof is in the pudding.

It’s also hard to quantify, as not much (additive stocks: winter,etc.) is documented. I don’t think that ULSD is as segmented & boutique as CA RUG/PUG, however.

kyfdx

I think we are done here... thanks for playing.

kyfdx

Please stick to the topic. Political and off-topic posts may not only lead to the re-closure of this topic, but result in the loss of your Edmunds membership. (along with a full refund of your membership fee)

ruking1

The local Porsche dealer is selling 2015/2016 Cayenne TDI’s. They are on the market for MSRP’s of approximately $72,000 to $76,000.

ruking1

On the 2003 VW Jetta TDI, (1.9 L, M/T 5 sp) not that my daughter cares, but 525 miles at 80 mph from Las Vegas, NV to the San Jose, CA area, she posted 52 mpg. She’ll probably have enough ULSD to hit the Sonoma, CA wine country.

xwesx

ruking1 said:

The local Porsche dealer is selling 2015/2016 Cayenne TDI’s. They are on the market for MSRP’s of approximately $72,000 to $76,000.

I have also seen "new" 2015 Q7s out there for sale. Again, MSRP listed. I wonder what a reasonable sale price is on NOS like this. Perhaps MSRP-20%?

ruking1

Yes ! And for the start of the negotiations! Hopefully this 3.0 L & 2.0 L “diesel gate” has scared off enough of all but serious folks! The greater percentage of the affected diesels can actually be resold!

xwesx

Agreed. Dealers may be very proud of their remaining stock, but, for most buyers, they're still old cars at this point. Nothing is going to change the fact that the tech level in them will continue to look old - people won't even see the fantastic drivetrain underneath.

ruking1

Yes, fact driven specifications are always trumped by sex!? Two examples I’ve always mentioned: 1. 32 mpg ULSD vs 19 mpg gas 2. .84/.92 g skid pad. I think it will be a very long time before any mid sized CUV can match these two figures, among many others. Then, ... who cares? Many to all of the new “hot” options literally take hours to dial into. I have no real need for, let alone want for most.

xwesx

ruking1 said:

Yes, fact driven specifications are always trumped by sex!? Two examples I’ve always mentioned: 1. 32 mpg ULSD vs 19 mpg gas 2. .84/.92 g skid pad. I think it will be a very long time before any mid sized CUV can match these two figures, among many others. Then, ... who cares? Many to all of the new “hot” options literally take hours to dial into. I have no real need for, let alone want for most.

Yes, totally agreed here. At best, some of these things are "nice to have." Most, though, are more of an annoyance than anything else. Examples for my Q7 include the proximity sensors (front and rear), which can be useful during the warmer months. Unfortunately, during the winter they tend to be covered in snow/ice most of the time and then just beep incessantly with no value. I have the volumes turned to their lowest settings, but not possible to turn off altogether except on a case-by-base basis.

And, most tech gizmos are of a similar nature.

Michaell

xwesx said:

ruking1 said:

Yes, fact driven specifications are always trumped by sex!? Two examples I’ve always mentioned: 1. 32 mpg ULSD vs 19 mpg gas 2. .84/.92 g skid pad. I think it will be a very long time before any mid sized CUV can match these two figures, among many others. Then, ... who cares? Many to all of the new “hot” options literally take hours to dial into. I have no real need for, let alone want for most.

Yes, totally agreed here. At best, some of these things are "nice to have." Most, though, are more of an annoyance than anything else. Examples for my Q7 include the proximity sensors (front and rear), which can be useful during the warmer months. Unfortunately, during the winter they tend to be covered in snow/ice most of the time and then just beep incessantly with no value. I have the volumes turned to their lowest settings, but not possible to turn off altogether except on a case-by-base basis.

And, most tech gizmos are of a similar nature.

You should trade in the Q7 and find a nice early to mid-70's Suburban.

xwesx

Michaell said:

xwesx said:

ruking1 said:

Yes, fact driven specifications are always trumped by sex!? Two examples I’ve always mentioned: 1. 32 mpg ULSD vs 19 mpg gas 2. .84/.92 g skid pad. I think it will be a very long time before any mid sized CUV can match these two figures, among many others. Then, ... who cares? Many to all of the new “hot” options literally take hours to dial into. I have no real need for, let alone want for most.

Yes, totally agreed here. At best, some of these things are "nice to have." Most, though, are more of an annoyance than anything else. Examples for my Q7 include the proximity sensors (front and rear), which can be useful during the warmer months. Unfortunately, during the winter they tend to be covered in snow/ice most of the time and then just beep incessantly with no value. I have the volumes turned to their lowest settings, but not possible to turn off altogether except on a case-by-base basis.

And, most tech gizmos are of a similar nature.

You should trade in the Q7 and find a nice early to mid-70's Suburban.

Well, I definitely won't trade it in, but I might sell it! And, yes, a 69-72 Suburban would be fabulous... particularly with a engine/drivetrain swap... perhaps with a 3.0L TDI!

ruking1

Indeed, there are precious few drivetrain combinations that can match the “out of the box” torque (406 # ft & 620 # ft 8 speed A/T) & skid pad specifications (.92G). The suspension is also included here.

I’ve been a longer-term admirer of (gas) Chevrolet Corvette engines. (5.7 L to 7.0 L) I’ve always loved how they’ve (crate engines) been used to RE-purpose older vehicles However, the best cruising, on street applications seems to be (way smaller) 3.0 L to 5.0 DIESEL platforms. The 8 speed A/T’s Toyota and ZF are also included.

I’d love a diesel Corvette with an 850 mile range! (32 mpg, 26.4 gal tank)

xwesx

ruking1 said:

Indeed, there are precious few drivetrain combinations that can match the “out of the box” torque (406 # ft & 620 # ft 8 speed A/T) & skid pad specifications (.92G)

I’ve been a longer-term admirer of (gas) Chevrolet Corvette engines. (5.7 L to 7.0 L) I’ve always loved how they’ve (crate engines) been used to RE-purpose older vehicles However, the best cruising, on street applications seems to be (way smaller) 3.0 L to 5.0 DIESEL platforms.

Quite so. Considering the lighter weight, it may very well be that the Canyon's drive train would be a very good match for something like the Suburban mentioned above. It would certainly make for a much nicer driver than original, as well as getting better than twice the fuel economy.

With it's original 307 V8, my 1969 C20 pickup manages a meager 11 mpg highway, unless I keep it at/under 55, in which case I might see as "good" as 15. This is for a vehicle that weighs about 3,400#, if I recall correctly.

ruking1

I think most people know about UPS & it’s competitors, so here’s an interesting diesel total fleet post! https://www.yahoo.com/news/ups-reserves-125-tesla-semi-165335987.html

My prediction is very simple. Even if they (& it’s competitors) implement EV tractor-trailers: there will be NO measurable (over all) air quality difference, due to implementation.

Why CA has seen fit to exempt “non mitigated to less mitigated emissions” generated by electrical, et al. is inexplicable. Or the truth is probably closer to ...follow the Democratic money trails.

The diesel pvf has very strict emissions standards.

fintail

If one doesn't like modern (sometimes superfluous or dopey) tech, better maintain that old car, as the tech is here to stay. As diesels last so long, maybe this is a good thing for Luddite diesel enthusiasts. Myself, if I am choosing a late model highline car, I want some toys.

As something like 30-40 ocean liners put out as much pollution as all the road vehicles in the world, indeed, those EV trucks won't make a dent in air quality, even with bitter political babble. Really, the only diesel emissions issue is older vehicles, especially trucks and commercials, which were held to low standards for too long.

ruking1

Indeed, the real EV global EV stairsteppings are getting into full stepping : a.k.a., huge (China) coal fired plants reliance! It’s no secret that China wants to become the largest producer and sellers of EV products, all over the world. They can’t do any of that without... (mitigated, unmitigated) coal fired plants, among other things like, rare earth metals....from China rare earth mining contracts in Afghanistan.

fintail

When there are no regulations and very little consideration given to quality of life or the value of human lives, some things are easier to accomplish.

To quote Fat Tony: "Actually, you can really keep costs down when you don't pay for materials, or labor, or permits or... land. "

Every time I see a "Zero Emissions" badged leaf, my eyes roll audibly. And people still whine about "clean diesel".

ruking1

Indeed, the exact opposites are true! There are TOO many regulations and the quality of life considerations are beyond the pale along the whole spectrum. USA spends INXS of $5 T of treasure & too much (USA) blood to make Afghanistan safe for China’s rare earth mining contracts. Some ??‘s might be: why not China? Their treasure? Their blood?

It’s almost comical to quote FT, either the cartoon or real life version.

I would agree that ZE is a crock.

fintail

Some regulations are good. You don't want to live in a world with no regulations. Sadly, not all regulations are good, this can definitely be seen in the non-gasoline vehicle world. A lot can be said for the money spent to secure those rare earths, and why it happens, probably best not said here.

Looking forward to a few hundred mile trip over the weekend, hoping for at least a low 40s mpg average even in the cold.

xwesx

fintail said:

Some regulations are good. You don't want to live in a world with no regulations. Sadly, not all regulations are good, this can definitely be seen in the non-gasoline vehicle world. A lot can be said for the money spent to secure those rare earths, and why it happens, probably best not said here.

Looking forward to a few hundred mile trip over the weekend, hoping for at least a low 40s mpg average even in the cold.

Yes! I hope that posters will continue to use some restraint in terms of the scope of conversation. @kyfdx was very kind to open this up again.....

ruking1

Indeed, so do I!

Viva la France! Speaking of NIMBY? https://www.yahoo.com/news/france-ban-domestic-production-oil-160230411.html

fintail

France, which historically loves diesel, barely makes any oil to begin with. More feel good greenieism.

ruking1

Being as how Francis trying to get rid of its diesels, 75% of its energy comes from nuclear!? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/france-loses-enthusiasm-for-nuclear-power/

fintail

Nuclear is great, the problem is how many Homer Simpsons are involved, and what do you when tender hearts win, and you want to change direction. I'd have imagined EV proponents would be big nuke supporters.

ruking1

Anti nukes are = to/equivalent of the eco cons in the USA! They might be a little farther along than say the USA. Even if Homer had read the article, he would not have concluded the imaginations.

gagrice

xwesx said:

ruking1 said:

Indeed, there are precious few drivetrain combinations that can match the “out of the box” torque (406 # ft & 620 # ft 8 speed A/T) & skid pad specifications (.92G)

I’ve been a longer-term admirer of (gas) Chevrolet Corvette engines. (5.7 L to 7.0 L) I’ve always loved how they’ve (crate engines) been used to RE-purpose older vehicles However, the best cruising, on street applications seems to be (way smaller) 3.0 L to 5.0 DIESEL platforms.

Quite so. Considering the lighter weight, it may very well be that the Canyon's drive train would be a very good match for something like the Suburban mentioned above. It would certainly make for a much nicer driver than original, as well as getting better than twice the fuel economy.

With it's original 307 V8, my 1969 C20 pickup manages a meager 11 mpg highway, unless I keep it at/under 55, in which case I might see as "good" as 15. This is for a vehicle that weighs about 3,400#, if I recall correctly.

I just hauled a huge load in my Canyon diesel PU. It had the tires squashed out and you could feel the heavy load on the corners. That 2.8L Duramax was more than able to handle the load. Overall average since new is 26.9 MPG. Most of that is the 8 round trips moving from San Diego to Pahrump NV. We are now 98% moved. The Canyon is more than living up to my expectations. Worst tank was this last one at 23.4 MPG. Heavy load, Sunday traffic on I15 to Vegas averaging over 80 MPH. And high head winds to boot. I would be happy replacing the Touareg with an Acadia and the 2.8L diesel engine. A Yukon, Suburban or Tahoe would be fine with this engine.

gagrice

fintail said:

Nuclear is great, the problem is how many Homer Simpsons are involved, and what do you when tender hearts win, and you want to change direction. I'd have imagined EV proponents would be big nuke supporters.

Just don't try to send your nasty Nuke Waste to Yucca Mt. We don't want it. Our buddy Rocky is distraught over all the nuke waste sitting in cooling ponds on His lake Michigan.

gagrice

So is anyone building a diesel mini van? I may want one. 7 passenger minimum diesel.

ruking1

I’m purely guessing, the OEM’s have to build TDI minivans (segment) for the product survival in the USA marketplace; IF the regulators are anywhere serious about mpg improvements /gains. Like F/S & compact PU trucks, it’s really another no brainer, they’ve been dragging their figurative feet on.

I showed some business guests around Lake Tahoe, CA (6,232 ft) & even going slowly around the Lake, the Toyota Sienna minivan got terrible fuel mpg, was totally gutless (v6?) & handled terribly. It did, however effortlessly transport six adults.

So evidently, there are some major compelling reasons/exemptions why they have not put in either EV or Hybrid.

Michaell

gagrice said:

So is anyone building a diesel mini van? I may want one. 7 passenger minimum diesel.

No diesel minivans on the market, currently.

And, no plans for anyone to introduce one. At the moment.

But I doubt it will happen, given the current public sentiment about diesel engines.

houdini1

xwesx said:

fintail said:

Some regulations are good. You don't want to live in a world with no regulations. Sadly, not all regulations are good, this can definitely be seen in the non-gasoline vehicle world. A lot can be said for the money spent to secure those rare earths, and why it happens, probably best not said here.

Looking forward to a few hundred mile trip over the weekend, hoping for at least a low 40s mpg average even in the cold.

Yes! I hope that posters will continue to use some restraint in terms of the scope of conversation. @kyfdx was very kind to open this up again.....

Agree. I don't post much here, but I do follow this forum. If it gets out of hand again I hope kyfdx uses a scalpel and not a meat ax.

fintail

2 strikes against a diesel minivan in Murka - diesel and minivan. Not gonna happen. Diesel is too niche even before the VW fiasco, and minivan is a curse word to many, who embrace the bloatling CUV.

There are plenty of minivan (or small van, vanlet) type things in Europe, all with diesel. Maybe do a private import of an older car, even with the asinine 25 year import rule, some relatively modern 90s stuff is becoming available, or will be soon.

gagrice

I would rather have a GMC Acadia Denali with the 2.8L diesel. Add an 8 speed auto transmission for smoothness. Our friends with the gas versions never get much over 16-17 MPG. Maybe 20 on trips. What ever I replace the VW Touareg TDI with will be diesel and have a dealership in Pahrump Nevada. I am not going to drive to Las Vegas for service. It is so convenient having the GM dealer 2.4 miles from the house. With their free car wash service it is a big bonus. I could opt for the GMC Terrain diesel. 40 MPG on the highway would be nice.

kyfdx

Can't you get the little Ford Transit with a diesel? Or, is that just the big one?

ruking1

Indeed, for a few to most of the latest assertions!

The parts that haven’t changed much are the greater than 75% & GROWING large car to small (but really large) truck markets & less than 25% (shrinking) mid size to compact car markets. The average age of the PVF indicates that (bought) preferences last an average of about 12 years.

I’m sure there are Don Quixote types wishing the USA markets be flush with station wagons, but the majority of those preferring those products are even smaller niche markets. Even those markets are dying off. So while waxing nostalgic is not a bad thing, I’m sure that the New York fashion industry with help from the Hollywood elite will probably someday want to bring back polyester leisure suits @ elite pricing. Count me a non-pre-buyer and I will enjoy the hilarity of it all.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

Can't you get the little Ford Transit with a diesel? Or, is that just the big one?

The Transit is the big one - you can get it with the 3.2L diesel engine (185HP, 350 torques)

You're thinking of the Transit Connect - that only comes with the 2.5L gas 4-banger

ruking1

I don’t remember where or when I read this; but for such a practical working van, I understand that the (diesel) Transit is an absolute hoot to drive!