What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

fintail

Musk's 600 mile claim is funny. Let's see, 21 gallon tank, easy 40+ mpg on the highway, I am sure someone of his stature can handle simple arithmetic.

I'd like to see an EV battery even at 400 miles of real world usage.

ruking1

Indeed, the (600) miles EV claim/s is/are beyond ludicrous! This is even after the non sequitur statement. The miles claim might be like the (mechanical) rabbit @ the dog races. Perhaps the most telling: the lack of real world mpg equivalent statistics/postings.

( x miles consumes how many kWh * cost per kWh)

More logically, E/EV have a hard time getting away from the logistic (grid -40%) & environment operational losses (-40% during winter). The grid loss, while seamless to consumers is reflected in the (higher) price per kWh The operational losses are reflected in up to 40% more kWh consumption. Some posts back, you advanced the good idea of making EV to diesel or gasoline engine 7/8/9/10 sp A/T. However if gasoline hybrids have a hard time justifying themselves, I would imagine EV will be worse for at least two decades.

In the EV, it would be interesting how far I’d get in the 210 miles trip to South Lake Tahoe, driven like the diesel. I could not make the return trip without a full charge plug in. There are also very few to no charging stations. If I start with approximately a full diesel tank, I do not have to fuel for the return trip. So I can fuel at any time or for the lowest possible price.

kyfdx

VW thinks electric is the future..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-29/how-volkswagen-walked-away-from-a-near-fatal-crash

ruking1

Evidently, issues at 100,000 miles for gasoline engines are more common than acknowledged? https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/5-trucks-that-can-start-having-problems-at-100000-miles.html/?ref=YF&yptr=yahoo

Tesla’s EV issues seem to be more massive @ 60,000 miles or less.

One CR pundit cites gasoline (emissions) issues @ 2%, but the definition is VERY narrow. It is greater than the whole diesel population!

ruking1

kyfdx said:

VW thinks electric is the future..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-29/how-volkswagen-walked-away-from-a-near-fatal-crash

The Bloomberg article is very interesting & on very many different levels! One piece of good news : VW US market share is less than 2.5%

This observation cracked me up. ... “One senior manager, who asked not to be identified discussing the internal mood, said workers are exhausted by the one-thing-after-another drumbeat of bad news. A certain gallows humor prevails across the Volkswagen group; some employees have taken to joking, when praised for doing a good job, “Yeah, well, I just modified my software””...

They stole a Silicon Valley line!

Locally, the Tesla battery factory really tightens up real estate (RE) values! The VW stock crashes (-33%) & slow recovery (app33%) were also ... (HUGELY) profitable ! Priceless was getting paid a small amount to drive VW diesels !

I predict CA can/will not see the forest for the trees to get a VW battery CA plant built!

gagrice

kyfdx said:

VW thinks electric is the future..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-29/how-volkswagen-walked-away-from-a-near-fatal-crash

Glad I bought VLKAY when they were down and out. About 20% of my IRA. The gain more than covered my IRA RMD last two years.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Evidently, issues at 100,000 miles for gasoline engines are more common than acknowledged? https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/5-trucks-that-can-start-having-problems-at-100000-miles.html/?ref=YF&yptr=yahoo

Tesla’s EV issues seem to be more massive @ 60,000 milesor less.

Glad the mentioned the Piece of Crap 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid. It did nothing for MPG and was horribly assembled. Hated the engine stop technology. So glad when an Eco nut from Los Angeles just had to have one. Only cost me about $4500 for the 26 months and the 12,687 miles I owned it. It really surprises me I ever bought another GM product. So far I am happy with the Canyon Duramax diesel.

xwesx

elias said:

in the diesel stickshift cruze, a hard acceleration in 1st gear will produce an extraordinarily low speed and extreme torque, with 2nd-gear-burst irritating/confusing/distancing the constant new-england tail-gators. on the highway the torque is awesome in 6th gear to burst-pass on the uphills, no shift needed... very useful on i-84, 81, 77, 26 recently.

currently the car has at least 2 square feet of DEF crystallized solid onto the paint & wheel. internally, it sips 1 gallon of def per 1000 miles, 3.8 gallon tank.

failure to actively select the DEF-idiot-light screen and preemptively refill the car with DEF results in the car's software triggering itself and/or myself into a mr-spock-pon-farr state.
i think i'm ready for the 7-year-DEF-itch next time whether it's me and/or the car with the itch. however i hereby warn society to stand well clear if you see me at a highway rest area or service-station with my DEF out, as my DEF-control remains demonstrably elusive.

so far, I have managed 57% of the DEF into the tank, 38% on the side of the car and wheel, 4% on my north-face jacket, and 1% on the roof of the car. one time via the plastic bottle-in-the-box and one time via the less-expesnive plastic bottle, $7.88 for 2.5 gal. i see bigrigs lugging DEF on the interstates, costing plenty of fuel and resources, is it worth it? it sure does seem to work to clean the exhaust along with DPF so far. my northface jacket and the roof of the car are less clean however. will it hurt the environment to dryclean my northface jacket?

if i ever learn to get more than 90% of the DEF into the tank, i'll treat myself and the car to free-range gluten-free digital-ready fair-trade DEF.

Elias, where is the DEF refill located on the Cruze? Is it co-located with the fuel refill, as it is on my Q7, or more difficult to access?

ruking1

200,000 miles, interesting statistics & %’s!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/04/02/full-size-suvs-most-likely-make-200-000-miles-new-report-shows/477351002/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatodaycommoney-topstories

gagrice

XwesX: Elias, where is the DEF refill located on the Cruze? Is it co-located with the fuel refill, as it is on my Q7, or more difficult to access?

On my GMC Canyon it is alongside the fuel filler. Very convenient. I hate the one on my Touareg TDI. Thankfully VW will now fill for free up to 120k Miles. GMC covers the DEF on the Canyon first 36k Miles. I did put in 2.5 gallons when the indicator said I needed it very early on. I don't think it was near full when new. Have about 3500 miles on oil change and DEF fill says ok. I do keep a 2.5 gallon jug, just in case. I found you have to screw that flex tube on real tight or it will leak. Got a little on the garage floor.

ruking1

Bullish for diesel? https://www.upi.com/Energy-News/2018/04/02/EPA-to-roll-back-Obama-era-fuel-efficiency-standards/3441522708462/

fintail

In terms of mpg standards, I'd think the newly overflowing swamp would be anti-diesel, as they don't want efficiency.

But with increasing fuel prices of late, and I suspect no end to that in sight, it could help diesel.

ruking1

My thought was removal of extermination of diesel orders removed the targeting there of. The nexus remains per 42 gal bbl of oil yields 20 gal gasoline/11 gal diesel, among other products that modern society can not function without.

fintail

I haven't seen data about diesel passenger car emissions being part of anything.

ruking1

None have obviously been published.

fintail

I suspect there won't be any, as diesel passenger cars are nearly statistically insignificant in terms of the overall vehicle population.

Knowing this swamp, I could imagine tax credits to coal-rolling trucks, however

ruking1

That line of reasoning is probably non sequiter. CA hybrids were targeted by environmental conservatives for 10% & 10% US. After 2.5 to 3 decades, it more like 2% to 4% PVF . Nationwide markets have been poorly documented, probably for obvious reasons. Despite US market hybrids proving themselves over 3 decades, investing NOW in “old electric technologies ” are chancey at best. US diesels have been disliked for easily that same time & probably longer & are 2.5 to 5% of the US PVF., 51% plus in the EU, with world wide %’s large. During that same time, gasoline, gasoline hybrid, natural gas, iterations have all failed to hit real world mpg goals. Diesels, as you probably would agree are at least 33% better mpg than any gasoline, gasoline hybrid, natural gas vehicle. EV’s are currently statistically insignificant in CA, US, EU & world markets. The range, real word energy losses, recharging, operations & acquisition costs all & each remain major stumbling blocks.

So. speaking of gasoline midsize sedans’ slow declines ... http://www.motortrend.com/news/midsize-sedan-sales-toyota-camry-leads-in-a-declining-segment/

fintail

True, pure EVs are even less significant than diesel cars. I've never had a problem beating EPA estimates in a gasser nor diesel, and the mpg goals are always overstated anyway. I want to see the elephant in the room re: grid capacity if everyone just switched to EV.

Gasoline sedans slow, but bloatling gasoline crossovers are spreading like wildfire with no end in sight.

ruking1

There are no “magic wands” in EPA mpg. One of the pieces of magic is/are the fact that the ACTUAL EPA MPG procedure/s IS/ARE shrouded in mystery. So the key (procedure) is once known/matched/beaten, one can either choose to best them or drive however one will, anyway.

I don’t know if anybody else has noticed this, but EV has no forward-looking targets for better mpg equivalent electrical energy use.

So to address the now ancient & over stressed electrical grid/s few if any electrical nods are built to handle the needed capacity, let alone the more future EV concept. The grid rehab concept is shrouded in trillions of $$’s of infrastructure upgrade/s. I like issues close to home like getting potholes filled. Ultimately upon “more fuller EV implementation”, would make rolling brownouts a normal occurrence. Fires would be more frequent. We think we have electrical infrastructure problems now? The future would be a/the literal nightmare.

To me, it’s zombie apocalypse now nightmare about EV implementation. Getting rid of gasoline & diesel is a pipe Hollywood dream to best: bad Harvey bankrupted movie production.The results (near nada) after three decades, are really hidden in plain sight in the statistics. Advantage diesel !

So for example, Santa Rosa, CA has approximately 8,500 + parcels that were utterly destroyed in the latest (defacto, environmentlly policy caused ) fire. Just the paperwork processing side is totally overwhelmed to build/rebuild exactly, an old parcel, which most are hopelessly out of date and non compliance with local regulations: costs $30,000 up!? Indeed, $143. per mo would cost $52,000 over 30 years @ 4%. I did some rough calculations and it’s cost is roughly 43% above the parcels worth before the fire to rebuild. The city of Santa Rosa will stand to reap $ 2.55 B UP $$’s in fees, where none were before the environmental fire.. Several years to actually rebuild (each parcel) is estimated. There is no to any logistical infrastructure to build/rebuild 8,500 parcels, let alone have standardized EV outlets. Currently one standardize EV outlet costs approximately $1,000. There are a number of totally backwards/stupid issues about having a home charging station, a.k.a. the concept is hopelessly out of date,...already.

Advantage diesel !

I’m ready for the 2019 Hyundai TDI, CUV https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-03/jeep-sales-surge-as-fiat-chrysler-s-deliveries-trounce-estimates?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=bd&utm_campaign=headline&cmpId=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo

fintail

Not to mention, if someone (a certain couple of foreign actors, perhaps) hacks into the grid and causes an outage, it would cripple transport as well as putting people in the dark. Do we really want one source of energy for everything?

gagrice

fintail said:

Not to mention, if someone (a certain couple of foreign actors, perhaps) hacks into the grid and causes an outage, it would cripple transport as well as putting people in the dark. Do we really want one source of energy for everything?

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

fintail

Solar panels in Seattle, I have to laugh at that idea. It might work for a few months out of the year, but I bet those projections don't include powering a vehicle for 15K+ miles/year.

Diesel here is still cheaper than RUG. If this keeps up, along with slow but steady gas price increases (and possible local and federal tax increases), it will influence my next vehicle decision.

gagrice said:

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

tifighter

fintail said:

Solar panels in Seattle, I have to laugh at that idea. It might work for a few months out of the year, but I bet those projections don't include powering a vehicle for 15K+ miles/year.

Diesel here is still cheaper than RUG. If this keeps up, along with slow but steady gas price increases (and possible local and federal tax increases), it will influence my next vehicle decision.

gagrice said:

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

I have a very modest 5.4kW system on my roof. Last year, it provided 80% of my energy needs, including one EV driven approx. 10k miles and our home's winter heating. Most installations are more in the 6-8 kW range. It can work pretty well in the Seattle area, actually.

ruking1

Why wasn’t a (modular) solar system that provides a minimum 100%+ plus (with battery storage & sell back of the product) of the energy needs installed?

This article probably defines the real issues !? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-03/california-utilities-want-wealthy-defectors-to-pay-up-for-power

kyfdx

tifighter said:

fintail said:

Solar panels in Seattle, I have to laugh at that idea. It might work for a few months out of the year, but I bet those projections don't include powering a vehicle for 15K+ miles/year.

Diesel here is still cheaper than RUG. If this keeps up, along with slow but steady gas price increases (and possible local and federal tax increases), it will influence my next vehicle decision.

gagrice said:

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

I have a very modest 5.4kW system on my roof. Last year, it provided 80% of my energy needs, including one EV driven approx. 10k miles and our home's winter heating. Most installations are more in the 6-8 kW range. It can work pretty well in the Seattle area, actually.

@fintail put his in the condo garage..

fintail

Yep, for those of us not in the lucky demographic able to afford detached housing within reasonable commuting distances, it won't work. This is becoming an area not devoted to single family residences. But I am sure the HOA won't mind if I commandeer the roof or stick some panels on my exterior walls

I believe that it might work for a couple and one EV, but with multiple vehicles or users, it might be hard, and maybe 1:1000 houses has it here now. Maybe increase our already insane gas taxes to pay for it, while the roads continue to crumble.

A cool idea would be to put heavy taxes on offshore purchasers, and use that for solar or other infrastructure.

tifighter

ruking1 said:

Why wasn’t a (modular) solar system that provides a minimum 100%+ plus (with battery storage & sell back of the product) of the energy needs installed?

Because I also bought a new roof at the same time. I can add more panels later; the inverter was purposely upsized for that reason.

tifighter

kyfdx said:

tifighter said:

fintail said:

Solar panels in Seattle, I have to laugh at that idea. It might work for a few months out of the year, but I bet those projections don't include powering a vehicle for 15K+ miles/year.

Diesel here is still cheaper than RUG. If this keeps up, along with slow but steady gas price increases (and possible local and federal tax increases), it will influence my next vehicle decision.

gagrice said:

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

I have a very modest 5.4kW system on my roof. Last year, it provided 80% of my energy needs, including one EV driven approx. 10k miles and our home's winter heating. Most installations are more in the 6-8 kW range. It can work pretty well in the Seattle area, actually.

@fintail put his in the condo garage..

C'mon, I didn't say it works for everyone all the time. The original statement was "Solar panels in Seattle, I have to laugh at that idea. It might work for a few months out of the year, but I bet those projections don't include powering a vehicle for 15K+ miles/year." I'm simply saying it isn't always laughable. And panels keep getting cheaper.

tifighter

fintail said:

Yep, for those of us not in the lucky demographic able to afford detached housing within reasonable commuting distances, it won't work.

My wife and I worked a combined 150 hours last week. Luck was hardly the driving factor.

fintail

There's sometimes a difference between working and being at work or on paid time

I was more referring to those of experienced age, who got in when normal working people could afford such luxuries in this region, and now have an "I got mine, to heck with you" attitude, and whine about taxes on their winning lottery tickets.

tifighter said:

My wife and I worked a combined 150 hours last week. Luck was hardly the driving factor.

xwesx

gagrice said:

fintail said:

Not to mention, if someone (a certain couple of foreign actors, perhaps) hacks into the grid and causes an outage, it would cripple transport as well as putting people in the dark. Do we really want one source of energy for everything?

Good point that I have thought about. Of course the ECO Nuts are convinced everyone can supply all their energy needs with solar panels. At this point in my life, 75 as of yesterday, I got my two diesels, so they can do as they like. Diesel is still much cheaper than premium so I am happy. Though it has ticked up to $2.82. Premium is over 3 bucks.

Happy birthday, Gary, at the 3/4 mark!

ruking1

Sedan sales dying? ? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sedans-dying-slow-death-gm-134601855.html

With years long slow growth & hot growth in CUV/SUV segments, how much less than 25% of the PVF are compact cars to midsize sedans? Not many really know the % of sedans sales are mandated/forced by the government regulations and ”suggestions” ?

Want a real mpg improvement? Diesels minimum os 33% ?

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Why wasn’t a (modular) solar system that provides a minimum 100%+ plus (with battery storage & sell back of the product) of the energy needs installed?

This article probably defines the real issues !? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-03/california-utilities-want-wealthy-defectors-to-pay-up-for-power

I heard grumbling of this before we moved from San Diego. Someone has to pay to maintain the infrastructure. Someone has to pay to keep the generators running when the sun ain't shining. I look for Net Metering to go the way of the Dodo bird very soon. What amazes me is out here in Nevada where the sun shines 350+ days a year. Very few people have solar. The Electric Cooperative is very supportive if you want to install Solar. Hard to justify as long as the price per KWH is only 10 cents.

Reading further on Bloomberg link: California Should Stand Its Ground on Tailpipe Rules
One state can stop Trump's EPA from turning back the clock on auto emissions.

This cannot bode well for Californians that cannot afford high priced EVs and the high cost of providing electricity for them. As more people are forced into apartment living for economic reasons, the problem is worse. I see a voter revolt in the state on many issues. Could be this year.

ruking1

For me to B/E installing solar would only make sense if I could sell back to the power company at approximately $250to $300 MINIMUM per month. I believe there is a law against that. They already penalize you when your power use exceeds what they think you should be using. Not only that, the power company sends a monthly SHAME letter. It basically says that you are fat and wasteful if you consume more than some idea “green house”. The question would be: why would I want to do (a solar project) that, just to break even ? The bottom line is that it’s economically and ecologically NOT sustainable! It makes more sense to put the (solar projects) $30,000 into the stock market making 12% to 15%.

fintail

Renters are another stumbling block for solar and/or EVs. Few landlords are going to invest in the infrastructure, and as the tax system is already set up to penalize renters, I suspect few will want to foot the bill themselves. I've seen almost no apartments in this area with more than one EV spot, and they are even quite rare in office towers. If you arrive after 0700 where I work, chances are you won't be charging your EV.

ruking1

And, there are many more renters that landlords. Indeed renters outnumber homeowners. So the majority of each category finds it economically unsustainable to implement solar or wind options.

One EV station is quite scary. One liability:electrocutions (in the rain) with rehabilitation and/or with the resultant death outweighs almost any benefits. Do insurance companies even write policies for accidental electrocution from EV ? Even an environmentalist doesn’t need a lawyer to figure that one out. It’s also telling on that Tesla fire netted 35 emergency responders when far less respond normally. Again, circumstances indicate logistics of the EV are not sustainable.

Advantage diesel !

gagrice

fintail said:

Renters are another stumbling block for solar and/or EVs. Few landlords are going to invest in the infrastructure, and as the tax system is already set up to penalize renters, I suspect few will want to foot the bill themselves. I've seen almost no apartments in this area with more than one EV spot, and they are even quite rare in office towers. If you arrive after 0700 where I work, chances are you won't be charging your EV.

It is even worse in San Diego. Nissan Leaf owner from my neighborhood works 35 miles from home on the Naval Ops center downtown. They have tax payer paid plug-ins for EVs. She has come out more than once to find her car unplugged and not charged enough for the 35 miles home mostly up hill. The jerk didn't even plug her back in after charging his EV. Eco nuts have no shame. Give me diesel and 600 miles between fueling. I guess some charging stations let you use a smartphone APP.

gagrice

fintail said:

Renters are another stumbling block for solar and/or EVs. Few landlords are going to invest in the infrastructure, and as the tax system is already set up to penalize renters, I suspect few will want to foot the bill themselves. I've seen almost no apartments in this area with more than one EV spot, and they are even quite rare in office towers. If you arrive after 0700 where I work, chances are you won't be charging your EV.

You do see more EV charging stations. Two at the last motel we stayed at in AZ. The two at Kohl's in Santee were never operable when we shopped there. Big sign Out of Order. Someone has to maintain them. As ruking mentioned, electrocution could put a company out of business. Those cables are not going to last forever, nor the electronics in the station. IF you only charge at home, and IF you have solar or cheap electric rates, IF you have a commute that gives you plenty of cushion for traffic, accidents etc. An EV may be for you. If your a fat cat that can take advantage of the one time $7500 tax credit.

ruking1

Isn’t it telling with 350,000 PVF diesels (taken) out of commission that nobody has measured the (immeasurable) differences taking 350,000 diesels has made? I thought that there would be at least one that wanted to rub my nose/face in it? Whom didn’t die that was scheduled to die from lung diesel due to those 350,000 “affected diesels? Oh & how many folks are scheduled to die from drinking coffee from Starbucks?

fintail

I'll take my diesel range, too. On a non-road trip month, I can fill up monthly.

There are some publicly funded chargers here too (the tax breaks aren't enough I guess).

gagrice said:

It is even worse in San Diego. Nissan Leaf owner from my neighborhood works 35 miles from home on the Naval Ops center downtown. They have tax payer paid plug-ins for EVs. She has come out more than once to find her car unplugged and not charged enough for the 35 miles home mostly up hill. The jerk didn't even plug her back in after charging his EV. Eco nuts have no shame. Give me diesel and 600 miles between fueling. I guess some charging stations let you use a smartphone APP.

ruking1

Yes, one simple way to get the range benefit consistently: fuel after the low fuel lamp and/or buzzer functions. Each company sets its own gal left criteria. (after lamp/buzzer functions)

fintail

I get "range anxiety" at about a quarter tank - probably leftover paranoia from my old car, which has quirky fuel gauge (but the light works). Even with that, 3/4 of a tank on the highway will easily be 600 miles. And it won't take me an hour to refuel.

ruking1

Well, I don’t know what to opine, other than if one is good with it, so am I for one. But my old 26.4 gal tank @ 32 mpg posted a 845 mile range. So for 60,000 miles, then buy back, I stopped approximately 71 times versus ...96 (many more).

I do have it on good authority that MB’s have accurate fuel gauges.

fintail

Parts on 50+ year old MBs can maybe beyond the time limit for which they were engineered. But I think the computer in the modern car is within 5-10% at worst. I think my car only has a 21.1 gallon tank.

Remember, Tesla valued a filling station visit at $100 (but doesn't deduct for waiting for a charge - if you can find one on the road!).

ruking1

As you recall, the LACK OF Tesla data (i.e.,equivalent fuel, aka, cost per mile driven) has been an ongoing issue. So I’m glad you brought it up. The $100 diesel bill is currently close. My 32 mpg diesel is 10.9 cents per gal & home fuel only for EV is more expensive. I also understand that the (Tesla) free for life recharging has been canceled for new buyers. It’s also telling there are no recharging solar panels on these machines. Nor does it appear any are planned. This is inexplicable given panels get way cheaper all the time.

gagrice

My cost per mile with my two diesels is just over 11 cents With NO worries about range. The Tesla owners claim 2.5-3 miles per KWH. With my last San Diego Electric bill as evidence. A Tesla owner in San Diego will pay between 14.3 cents and 17.2 cents per mile. Not impressed in the least. No running out of diesel stress. When the alarm comes on I know I have over 50 miles to find a station. My 10 trips moving from San Diego, I topped off when I left and filled after getting to my home in NV. Long before the alarm even towing a heavy trailer. Try that with any EV or Hybrid. I am optimistic for those of US that refuse to give up on diesel. GM has come through and now Hyundai. Look for the others to jump on the Diesel bandwagon. Been a long journey for me. Started looking for a diesel PU on Edmunds in 1998 and finally 20 years later I have what I wanted all along. Life is good.

ruking1

Is it all Trump’s fault again ? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/sexy-suv-ads-created-demand-now-being-used-to-attack-fuel-standards.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|story|&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

Is it really in the statistics? https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
https://www.webmd.com/default.htm

“The EPA estimated that the standards would help avoid up to 2,000 premature deaths per year when fully in place.

fintail

I wonder if the author of that first piece would comment on how many container ships it takes to equal the global emissions of ICE vehicles.

45 is a mess in many ways, but this isn't his mess. Then again, look at the source. I wouldn't be surprised if she lives a Gore-style "green" life.

gagrice

fintail said:

I wonder if the author of that first piece would comment on how many container ships it takes to equal the global emissions of ICE vehicles.

45 is a mess in many ways, but this isn't his mess. Then again, look at the source. I wouldn't be surprised if she lives a Gore-style "green" life.

The older generation buy SUV/CUVs for many reasons. To haul more stuff than a sedan, and getting in and out is so much easier on the old backs. Most are front wheel drive and not even designed for offroad. Easier getting around in snow. PU trucks have evolved into Multipurpose vehicles with 4 doors and comfortable back seating for the kids. We fought this fight tooth and nail over a decade ago. Those of us that like SUVs won the argument. The haters just don't give up, they go and sulk in the 11,000 sq ft McMansions or yachts.

fintail

Not just the olds - every 30 year old mommy out there wants one too, and I think as roads continue to decay, even normal car drivers will be moving that direction. I'd consider one for my next car, simply for a better ride. I think using a 1 ton 4x4 dually as a commuter is stupid, but I can't blame someone for choosing a GLE or Explorer.

On the green subject, I suspect the fuel and emissions savings to be gained from simply forcing the powers that be to optimize traffic controls would outweigh pie in the sky mpg requirements.

gagrice said:

The older generation buy SUV/CUVs for many reasons. To haul more stuff than a sedan, and getting in and out is so much easier on the old backs. Most are front wheel drive and not even designed for offroad. Easier getting around in snow. PU trucks have evolved into Multipurpose vehicles with 4 doors and comfortable back seating for the kids. We fought this fight tooth and nail over a decade ago. Those of us that like SUVs won the argument. The haters just don't give up, they go and sulk in the 11,000 sq ft McMansions or yachts.