What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

Like we have been saying all along about the VW Touareg !? https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019-volkswagen-touareg-suv/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+CNETAsiaBlogs+(CNET+Asia+Blogs)#ftag=CAD590a51e

fintail

The Kool-Aid drinking comments on that page make me question humanity. Tesla has a cult around it that the old MB/VW diesel community can never rival.

gagrice said:

ruking1 said:

Again advantage diesel ! Would I rather run my TDI’s (same power & adjusted) with 1,000 #’s less? OH YEAH!

The GLK 250 BT 4 matic with diesel mpg greatly exceeds the (like model-gasoline) GLK 350 SANS 4 matic mpg. The weight is not much different? (65 #‘s I’ve read)

No doubt in my mind. Diesel is the way to go and far safer than gas or batteries. Being fried in a Tesla by burning batteries is what nightmares are made of.

https://electrek.co/2018/03/23/tesla-fire-battery-pack-model-x-crash/

ruking1

The removal & storage of so called “diesel-gate” VW passenger vehicles have had an immeasurable (not) (zero) effect on NOX emissions: local, county, state, region, USA.

gagrice

I think the bigger question is how long can Tesla bleed money and survive? $675 million down the toilet last quarter. Will investors keep throwing good money after bad. How much has he wasted with stunts like putting a Tesla sports car into orbit? Glad I don't have any TSLA in my portfolios.

But now that Tesla has started deliveries to regular folks, bigger flaws are emerging. A tear-down test, by benchmarkers Munro and Associates, compared build quality to that of a 1990s era Kia. That's not good.

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-model-3-production-problems-elon-musk-feb-2018/

fintail

I suspect every dieselgate cheater combined put out less dangerous pollutants than one large container ship.

I live in Tesla Mecca and have seen 3 Model 3s. I see more Bentaygas.

ruking1

For $80,000 to $140,000 per Tesla model X unit, & $1,000 per recharging station, the $$’s would have bought UP to 4 new diesel MB GLK 250 BT’s! ? Since one (ours) has been tasked to run a yrly. commute, the “leftover” $$’s buys up to 75.4 years of commuting.

(36 mpg, $165,000, @ $3.39 ULSD, buys 31,416 gals * 36 mpg = 1,130,976 miles/15,000 yr)

2019 VW Touareg TDI Most of this stuff I would not spring for, but to each their own! https://www.yahoo.com/news/discover-top-10-tech-features-070620526.html

fintail

I can't imagine a Model X being bought for pragmatic reasons - these are all about showing off pseudo-techie status, I suspect they are very appealing to the microwave blinking 12:00 24/7 set.

ruking1

gagrice said:

I think the bigger question is how long can Tesla bleed money and survive? $675 million down the toilet last quarter. Will investors keep throwing good money after bad. How much has he wasted with stunts like putting a Tesla sports car into orbit? Glad I don't have any TSLA in my portfolios.

But now that Tesla has started deliveries to regular folks, bigger flaws are emerging. A tear-down test, by benchmarkers Munro and Associates, compared build quality to that of a 1990s era Kia. That's not good.

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-model-3-production-problems-elon-musk-feb-2018/

The bigger question (“BATTLE”) is really for the CONTROL of the ELECTRICAL GRID, & solar,, wind, geo thermal pro! This is largely seamless to the car products segment, i.e. Tesla’s car products in a manner of speaking

gagrice

The 2019 looks ok. I would not be in the least interested in a diesel guzzling V8 rocket. Notice the towing capacity is down to 7000 lbs vs 7700 for the last generation. Put a beefy 4 cylinder diesel in and I am open to trading my trusty 2013 in.

gagrice

Something for investors to think about. Tesla sold 29,870 vehicles last quarter of 2017. They lost $675 million that quarter. That means a $22,597 loss per vehicle sold. And the $7500 tax ripoff will soon end. Not to mention at Musk's projected 5000 model 3s per month it will take right at 10 years to fulfill the orders he has. And the $35,000 price is closer to $50k.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

iluvmysephia1

Hey, gagrice - a week or so ago you posted to me on the 'Report Your Gas Prices' thread. Asking about my location. Just getting back to you now. My wife and I have been ultra-busy here in Alamogordo house hunting.

The last place we were in was Wenatchee, WA. It's my home state, just that it's the east side of the Cascades. Because of our two dogs and two cats, we're in trouble trying to get a rental. Well, we scored the lower level of a beautiful lodge on Lake Chelan to rent. We did have upstairs neighbors and, we found out our Chow and Pom barked the entire time we were gone if we went shopping or something. So, we had to take the dogs with us every time we left the house. Long story short is that the entire Wenatchee-Chelan region outpriced us. 

And, since my job was an hour and 15 minutes south when it wasn't snowy and icy, I started nodding off on the way home. One day an e-mail dropped in my box from the same recruiter who got me the Alamogordo job in January 2013. He had a Sleep Tech job opening there, that's my forte. They hired me back, paid off the $4,200 left on our lease that went through mid-May of 2018, and they're reimbursing me for travel expenses getting the 1590 miles down here in southern New Mexico.

Wow! We are aiming to close on a house here on the 30th of March. Gonna see if a big anchor will keep us in one place for a while!

gagrice

I have always advised people move where you get the most bang for your buck on COL. You can make $150k a year in CA and live lower middle class. Where we are now you can do ok on $15 an hour. It amazes me how much less the COL is where we are in Pahrump NV. Less than half of San Diego. With very nice weather. Enjoy that new home in Alamagordo. You could do a lot worse. Being wanted bad enough to help you move is a good sign. I often wonder where our host Steve ended up. He did not stay anyplace for long. Left us while in Las Cruces.

iluvmysephia1

I often wonder where our host Steve ended up. He did not stay anyplace for long. Left us while in Las Cruces.

I have wondered about stever a bit, too, lately. I'm gonna post a comment over on 'Cars and Conversations' later asking if anyone has seen or heard from him. Nice to chat with you again, Gary!

ruking1

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/europe-cracks-down-diesel-vehicles-143000270.html

Diesel killers? IF/WHEN they do this to diesels, what can they prohibit/ kill next ?

Hybrid/s took (approximately three) decades to develop, design, redesign, prove, to wit 2003 Toyota Prius. Now, going forward getting an “approved” yet acknowledged, outdated, economically senseless, technology was/is/remains problematic, senseless & worth less! ? The 2018 Prius (25.5k to 33.5k MSRP) & Corolla (20.1 k to 21.6 k) are still “competitive” examples. The “widespread (2%) “use of hybrids emissions were/are/remain basically immeasurable in the real world.

Advantage diesel !

fintail

I think that kinda-article is a bit alarmist. From a linked article:

" Of the 15m diesel cars registered in Germany, around 6m are of a “Euro 6” emissions standard that would probably escape a ban"

There will be no outright ban, at worst, more like a culling old ill-maintained heavy polluters, something I wouldn't complain about if it happened in other places. For every diesel X5 I see quietly and odorlessly ambling down the road, there's a coal rolling bro truck of ineptitude and impotence out there sullying the reputation of the fuel.

Also no mention in those blurbs that DUH has received money from Toyota.

gagrice

I have not seen a single one of the "Rollin' Coal" silly trucks since moving to Nevada. I think in California it is a protest against the many crazy rules and regulations. Modify your vehicle and put it back legal every two years for the silly smog test. In San Diego there are specialty shops just for that. NY Times says they are Rebels.

Bro, yo, bro, BRO. Bro, remember that whole thing that we would do, where we, Bros, would pour thick, acrid, choking smoke all over people who happen to drive a Toyota Prius? Yeah, hilarious.

https://jalopnik.com/the-epa-just-said-that-this-whole-rolling-coal-thing-is-1601808499

andres3

gagrice said:

I have not seen a single one of the "Rollin' Coal" silly trucks since moving to Nevada. I think in California it is a protest against the many crazy rules and regulations. Modify your vehicle and put it back legal every two years for the silly smog test. In San Diego there are specialty shops just for that. NY Times says they are Rebels.

Bro, yo, bro, BRO. Bro, remember that whole thing that we would do, where we, Bros, would pour thick, acrid, choking smoke all over people who happen to drive a Toyota Prius? Yeah, hilarious.

https://jalopnik.com/the-epa-just-said-that-this-whole-rolling-coal-thing-is-1601808499

has anyone sold a bumper sticker that says "Suck my Pipes!" yet?

fintail

I doubt the people making their overcompensators roll coal have the cranial capacity to formulate a protest or understand those oh so evil regulations. Every time I see one of those I imagine my forefinger and thumb about 1cm apart.

Should be a five figure fine, which would probably end up being paid by daddy, as so many of that type are funded by parental largesse directly or indirectly. Nothing has sullied the reputation of diesel here like stinky dbaggy impotence-masking trucks.

gagrice said:

I have not seen a single one of the "Rollin' Coal" silly trucks since moving to Nevada. I think in California it is a protest against the many crazy rules and regulations. Modify your vehicle and put it back legal every two years for the silly smog test. In San Diego there are specialty shops just for that. NY Times says they are Rebels.

Bro, yo, bro, BRO. Bro, remember that whole thing that we would do, where we, Bros, would pour thick, acrid, choking smoke all over people who happen to drive a Toyota Prius? Yeah, hilarious.

https://jalopnik.com/the-epa-just-said-that-this-whole-rolling-coal-thing-is-1601808499

ruking1

...“To complicate matters further, California has long held a waiver from the EPA to set its own standards, a quirk that dates back to the state’s smoggy days from decades ago. California, unlike other states, can set tighter standards than federal law dictates. As a result, California has the ability to lead the nation in tightening fuel efficiency, dragging the rest of the country along.”... Butt EPA can cancel the waiver.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/380260-epa-expected-to-declare-obama-car-efficiency-rules-too-strict

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article206961619.html

kyfdx

Good for them!

gagrice

kyfdx said:

Good for them!

I assume you mean California. Problem is they do not enforce the laws they are so good at passing. San Diego highways are loaded with OLD diesel trucks with Mexican plates. They don't get smog checks. They don't get stopped. They come across the border to haul our old tires, TVs, appliances, building materials back to Mexico. Blowing black smoke the whole way. Really drove me crazy seeing small PU trucks and vans with diesel engines, when I could not legally own one in California. The land of Hypocrites, so glad to be out of there.

fintail

To be fair, if a car isn't registered in a location, it won't be held to that location's standards. Cross-border emissions tests aren't a thing anywhere. Just as if I live in Seattle and have a nice 1979 car (emissions exempt here), take a two week road trip to CA, I won't be expected to pass local emissions while I am there. I'd be more worried about the insurance and physical condition of those trucks, and if I want to complain about them, I might complain to those who profit from their presence - someone is making bank from it, and chances are, it is more of the "I built it myself" crowd who took over a family business while pining on about hard work and discipline, rather than the elitists in the halls of government who call so much legislation.

There will be hypocrisy around any such policy, as there is always a political bent to it, and politics is the vocation of hypocrites. There is endless hypocrisy around most areas of policy on both sides of the aisle - from greenies who preach high density housing and transit but would never partake in it themselves, to the morality/family values squawkers who never practice what they preach, to the "self-sufficient" Randian goons who either have a fat publicly funded benefits package or were gifted a lot from family. That's politics for ya.

ruking1

Ain’t life grand? Practically, there are actually MORE regulations toward gasoline products than diesel’s. To wit, CA’s biannual diesel smog test never did/still does not measure emissions. If it did, I’m absolutely sure diesel options would proliferate in US & world markets! So in your example, (Gagrice’s case) a NV registered (diesel) would not be stopped in CA, the other 48 states, Indian nations, 2 contiguous foreign counties. Sub-standard to no insurances has/have been a (severe) problem for many decades The short answer is an extra cost “no” insurance add-on or policy. CA, I suspect the rest of the US is fully close to 30% of the PVF. If you count under insurance, I’m sure that figure is closer to 67 % of the PVF.

It is truly amazing from all the “issues“ involved, we have been/are/will continue experiencing THE safest years in recorded history (in arrears). https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Life is good!

fintail

Definitely less regs for diesels. In my state, diesels are exempt if under 3 tons, or after 2007.

For gassers, all gasoline and some hybrid cars up to 25 years old, from before 2009, must be tested.

It all has to do with where a car is registered - just like CA can't emissions-test a car driven by a tourist from WA, a car registered in Hoquiam doesn't have to meet the standards of one registered in Seattle.

Insurance is more of a worry - even away from the border, I suspect ranks of uninsured would boggle the mind, especially as rates continue to rise, and the socio-economic gap isn't narrowing.

houdini1

I saw a short blurb this AM. Concept from VW, a P.U. based on Atlas SUV, called a Tanoak. Probably more info if you google.

ruking1

https://youtu.be/To5h3Rd_v4A

houdini1

Thx for posting

fintail

For fans of LED DRLs.

ruking1

2019 Hyundai Santa Fe TDI. https://youtu.be/m3ilxcZv1rw

ruking1

FRAUD behind global warming scare statistics? Say it ain’t so, Joe. ( DiMaggio ) https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/the-stunning-statistical-fraud-behind-the-global-warming-scare/

Is NOAA (one of many) a de facto government arm of the global warming religion?

xwesx

More diesel options! All good news.

ruking1

Keep the diesel options coming, OEM’S !

Hyundai (the Korean auto oem) despite many instances of US (gasoline) fraud, seems to be fairly serious about continual & constant improvement/s. So it’s good to see that they’re putting a compact/mid size diesel option (2.2 L , 320 # ft) nto the US market diesel game.

I watched (one YouTube video, where @ a Hyundai plant) it was pressing GALVANIZE steel into body parts. On the other hand, Toyota, Honda, etc. use normally new, mixed & recycled steel: aka,: FAR less rust resistance.

Here iare two articles about VW buyback American concentration camps.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/massive-volkswagen-buyback-looks-142132322.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/29/597991227/why-300-000-volkswagens-are-being-stored-in-these-massive-auto-boneyards

fintail

I seem to see more diesels around Vancouver than in Seattle, although maybe not many more. More Bluetecs anyway. They had diesel Smart here, too.

elias

gagrice, your diesel vehicles are begging for a random road trip, maybe pick a random long distance destination and visit gratuitously? 304 miles in a month is just not enough. maybe visit mt rushmore before all 4 of the sculptured president faces are painted orange?

14000 for me in 5 months on cruze diesel but i'm going to park it for a while or try to get my better-half to drive it instead of her sonic.

gm reports i did 1800 'hard acceleration events' in discounted cruze diesel since i bought it... heh. nice.

ruking1

What kind of mpg are you getting in the 14,000 miles (in 5 months.) ?

elias

in the 2017 chevy cruze diesel stickshift first 5 months ownership, 14k miles: average 53 mpg on the florida/southern winter fuel. average is 49 mpg in the arctic/NH/MN/Boston/northern-fuel conditions, including lots of idling/stopped.
ps - i don't miss any of my previous 4 VW TDIs now that I've got a GM stickshift TurboDiesel. https://nypost.com/2018/03/30/volkswagens-graveyards-for-diesels/

ruking1

So I’m guessing 51 mpg average for 14,000 miles ? Yee Ha!

I am particularly impressed with the complete & utter deadening silence of the diesel HATERS’ magical circus of storing/destruction in the neighborhood of 350,000 diesel automobiles. There are ZERO measurable effects to real world emissions, etc., etc. !

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/volkswagen-storing-around-300-000-diesels-37-facilities-065817060--finance.html

Michaell

elias said:

in the 2017 chevy cruze diesel stickshift first 5 months ownership, 14k miles: average 53 mpg on the florida/southern winter fuel. average is 49 mpg in the arctic/NH/MN/Boston/northern-fuel conditions, including lots of idling/stopped.
ps - i don't miss any of my previous 4 VW TDIs now that I've got a GM stickshift TurboDiesel. https://nypost.com/2018/03/30/volkswagens-graveyards-for-diesels/

elias said:

in the 2017 chevy cruze diesel stickshift first 5 months ownership, 14k miles: average 53 mpg on the florida/southern winter fuel. average is 49 mpg in the arctic/NH/MN/Boston/northern-fuel conditions, including lots of idling/stopped.
ps - i don't miss any of my previous 4 VW TDIs now that I've got a GM stickshift TurboDiesel. https://nypost.com/2018/03/30/volkswagens-graveyards-for-diesels/

OK, those are some seriously good numbers. I'll have to look into that.

ruking1

Yes, for much of the 186,000 miles on a 2003 VW Jetta 1.9 L TDI, 5sp manual, it was just normal for between 48 to 52 MPG. But, it’s really very easy to get 59/62 MPG.(on the highway’s.) I just did not want to exercise the patience needed, over most of that mileage. Most TDI’s really beckon to be driven “correctly“. Indeed TDI‘s should/can be driven differently than gasoline models. One’s results can/will/do vary, whether diesel adjustments are used or ... not.

ruking1

Coffee more dangerous in CA than PVF diesel emissions? Does the $2,500 civil penalty come given in Starbucks gift cards ? I should have been a lawyer in litigation.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-california-judge-coffee-needs-212748202.html

andres3

elias said:

gagrice, your diesel vehicles are begging for a random road trip, maybe pick a random long distance destination and visit gratuitously? 304 miles in a month is just not enough. maybe visit mt rushmore before all 4 of the sculptured president faces are painted orange?

14000 for me in 5 months on cruze diesel but i'm going to park it for a while or try to get my better-half to drive it instead of her sonic.

gm reports i did 1800 'hard acceleration events' in discounted cruze diesel since i bought it... heh. nice.

Careful! They might amend the warranty to state it is void as soon as you perform 1,801 "hard acceleration events."

gagrice

elias said:

gagrice, your diesel vehicles are begging for a random road trip, maybe pick a random long distance destination and visit gratuitously? 304 miles in a month is just not enough. maybe visit mt rushmore before all 4 of the sculptured president faces are painted orange?

14000 for me in 5 months on cruze diesel but i'm going to park it for a while or try to get my better-half to drive it instead of her sonic.

gm reports i did 1800 'hard acceleration events' in discounted cruze diesel since i bought it... heh. nice.

I know that. So busy here getting settled in. Still waiting on home in San Diego to sell. Will for sure head North when the temps hit 100+ here in Nevada. Visit my sis in Lake Tahoe and my kids in Oregon. Maybe rent a condo for a month on the Oregon coast. These short 3-4 mile trips really knock down my mileage a lot. Last tank 21.7 MPG. I have almost 500 miles on this tank and the warning light just came on going to the post office to mail off our 6 tax returns. Diesel is $2.76 today at Smith's.

xwesx

I just rolled over 71,000 miles on the Q7, this, up from what, around 51,500 when I bought it thirteen months ago? I need to take fewer trips or something.....

I'm planning on making a run to Oregon in June, and I hope my wife will let us take the Q7. Otherwise, it's the Forester, and (as much as I like it) it just doesn't have the same level of comfort for long distance driving.

ruking1

ULSD (N0X & other emissions) doesn’t even rate a 3rd rate mention. https://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/ss/slideshow-lung-cancer-overview

Funny how CA legalizes marijuana ! ?

ruking1

Diesels = ULE’s? https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a19609371/ultra-low-emissions-diesel-hydrogen/

End of diesel ?

...”Evan Johnson doesn’t think so. To him, diesel just needs some help from another alternative fuel—hydrogen. Johnson, CTO of HyTech Power, says that injecting hydrogen into the air-fuel mixture of a diesel engine can dramatically improve fuel mileage and lower its emissions. HyTech promises a 20 to 30 percent reduction in fuel consumption, 85 percent less particulate matter, and a reduction in nitrogen oxides of 50 to 90 percent.”...

Issues in EV battery land?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nissan-leaf-30-kwh-battery-decline-3-times-130000235.html

Texas skip steps? 18 sp manual = Eden in Eaton/Fuller? https://youtu.be/8mBgrsS5rDU

gagrice

Tesla can't even come close to manufacturing the Model 3 cars they have sold. Don't think they will sell that many Semi EVs. That hydrogen diesel sounds very promising. I like that they produce the hydrogen as needed. No nasty tanks to deal with. Diesel is still the safest fuel to haul around. One of the comments on the Yahoo story, is waiting for Tesla to come out with a 600+ mile battery. Claims no ICE can top that. I got news for him, I have many of my 96 refills well over 600 miles with enough diesel to get me another 100 miles. One tank was 703 miles with 2 gallons left in reserve. I hope he is not holding his breath on those Musk promises.

ruking1

There can be no doubt that Elon (Musk) makes the best promises in the world. Indeed, some are out of this world.

No ice can top 600 + miles? Too funny! ? Yours & my (previous) 26.4 gal tank * 32 mpg= 844 miles. Indeed my three VW’s all did.

Oil burners! https://youtu.be/aExFfzabBtA
https://youtu.be/PgdZSXOslDM

elias

in the diesel stickshift cruze, a hard acceleration in 1st gear will produce an extraordinarily low speed and extreme torque, with 2nd-gear-burst irritating/confusing/distancing the constant new-england tail-gators. on the highway the torque is awesome in 6th gear to burst-pass on the uphills, no shift needed... very useful on i-84, 81, 77, 26 recently.

currently the car has at least 2 square feet of DEF crystallized solid onto the paint & wheel. internally, it sips 1 gallon of def per 1000 miles, 3.8 gallon tank.

failure to actively select the DEF-idiot-light screen and preemptively refill the car with DEF results in the car's software triggering itself and/or myself into a mr-spock-pon-farr state.
i think i'm ready for the 7-year-DEF-itch next time whether it's me and/or the car with the itch. however i hereby warn society to stand well clear if you see me at a highway rest area or service-station with my DEF out, as my DEF-control remains demonstrably elusive.

so far, I have managed 57% of the DEF into the tank, 38% on the side of the car and wheel, 4% on my north-face jacket, and 1% on the roof of the car. one time via the plastic bottle-in-the-box and one time via the less-expesnive plastic bottle, $7.88 for 2.5 gal. i see bigrigs lugging DEF on the interstates, costing plenty of fuel and resources, is it worth it? it sure does seem to work to clean the exhaust along with DPF so far. my northface jacket and the roof of the car are less clean however. will it hurt the environment to dryclean my northface jacket?

if i ever learn to get more than 90% of the DEF into the tank, i'll treat myself and the car to free-range gluten-free digital-ready fair-trade DEF.

houdini1

fintail said:

For fans of LED DRLs.

Would look right at home in Las Vegas.

fintail

I think the recent sequential Audi rear signals (I know, barely ever used) are influenced by 1960s sign marquees.

houdini1 said:

fintail said:

For fans of LED DRLs.

Would look right at home in Las Vegas.