Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

ruking1 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

I've had an interesting few days. I suddenly could not log in here after I changed the phone number associated with my login email address. Kirstie was very helpful.

Now I have 385 messages to scan through from all you knuckleheads.

You should read every one....they are pure gold!

I made it (I don't think I read every page).

I sort of panicked when I realized I couldn't log in here. After a day or two I realized I really didn't miss it that much. That's when I contacted Edmund's to see if they could fix it.

venture

Oh. I got my Legacy back a day or so ago.

If you remember, or care, we figured about $550 in parts and who knows what else when they "open it up". $2,500 seemed about right and they said 3 or 4 days. I forget who said $4k would probably be more like it.

Well...it ended up being 2 weeks and a little over $4,000; plus over $700 for a rental. Man!

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

That and a whole bunch of other things.

berri

I've seen some more stuff on the MAX. Apparently a half dozen or so AA pilots encountered and reported nose down symptoms after taking off. Being well trained and experienced, they quickly resolved the matter. But a number of pilots have complained about inadequate information on the plane from Boeing, making their initial flying more hassled. Now it appears the gov shutdown impacted the time it has taken Boeing to get the MCAS software update FAA approved and released. What a mess. But I'm not totally excusing Boeing after the mess they've made with the B767 converted AF tankers. Also, it appears that at this point US airline pilots flying the MAX generally like the aircraft and believe it has advantages over the prior B737 models. Probably a good thing because the Airbus NEO narrow bodies have something like a 5 years delivery lead time right now. And yes, I think media, politics and potential litigation has all played into the situation. If the MAX pilots are generally happy with it, I'd get on a MAX. As they say, the pilots see the ground first.

ab348

Interesting article on what PGA Tour pro golfers are driving this week:

https://www.golf.com/news/columns/2019/03/14/pga-tour-player-cars-players-championship/

(There is an auto-play video at the start that has nothing to do with the article, stop it.)

explorerx4

@ab348,
One of my BIL's used to manage that course before he moved up.

abacomike

berri said:

I've seen some more stuff on the MAX. Apparently a half dozen or so AA pilots encountered and reported nose down symptoms after taking off. Being well trained and experienced, they quickly resolved the matter. But a number of pilots have complained about inadequate information on the plane from Boeing, making their initial flying more hassled. Now it appears the gov shutdown impacted the time it has taken Boeing to get the MCAS software update FAA approved and released. What a mess. But I'm not totally excusing Boeing after the mess they've made with the B767 converted AF tankers. Also, it appears that at this point US airline pilots flying the MAX generally like the aircraft and believe it has advantages over the prior B737 models. Probably a good thing because the Airbus NEO narrow bodies have something like a 5 years delivery lead time right now. And yes, I think media, politics and potential litigation has all played into the situation. If the MAX pilots are generally happy with it, I'd get on a MAX. As they say, the pilots see the ground first.

From reports I have read, pilots experienced “nose up” after wheels up on the MAX8 which was corrected by software in order to avoid stalls.  The cause of “nose up” supposedly is due to the larger engines on the MAX8/9 which produce significantly more thrust than previous variations of the 737 and which are significantly heavier.  Boeing designers and engineers moved the engines further forward and closer to the fuselage in order to compensate for the additional weight.  That could cause a “nose up” reaction by the aircraft at full throttle.

To solve that problem, software was developed to cause the nose to go down in situations where there was an impending stall after wheels up due to the thrust and position of the engines.  That is where the problems are according to reports I have read.  The reports further stated that there is a lack of info in the pilot’s manual on how to deal with the aircraft’s over response to this situation - i.e. the nose goes down to such an extent that a potential nose down loss of control can occur.

As a twin-engine pilot myself back in my more youthful days (Beechcraft King Air 350), the powerful twin turbo prop engines would, depending on winds and weather, cause a “nose up” situation which was easy to correct.  In anticipation of that possibility with strong headwinds after wheels up, I would level the aircraft to gain forward speed momentarily and then bring the nose up in a controlled manner.  There was no software on that plane that would automatically correct pitch like there is on the MAX8/9.

Another issue might be the inadequate training and flight experience of the pilots and co-pilots on how to disengage the computer software that controls the nose down response of the aircraft to a nose up situation in the event of a loss of control.

These are just possibilities raised by pilots.  Until the black boxes are downloaded and data analyzed in addition to the cockpit voice recorders, everything is merely conjecture.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

When two planes go down due to similar conditions, that is not media hype that is something that has to be investigated quickly. I have heard several reports from very credible pilots that Boeing's manual was lacking information about how their plane should be handled during take offs and landings which are the most critical conditions that a pilot has to deal with. I'm sure Boeing will figure it out and I'm just as sure it will be years before the general public hears what was really done to correct the problem/s but to be honest, we don't have to know about it quickly, only the pilots need that info quickly.

jmonroe

abacomike

ab348 said:

Interesting article on what PGA Tour pro golfers are driving this week: https://www.golf.com/news/columns/2019/03/14/pga-tour-player-cars-players-championship/ (There is an auto-play video at the start that has nothing to do with the article, stop it.)

My brother lives a couple of miles from TPC Sawgrass in Ponte Vedra.  I have been on that course as a spectator several times and it is truly magnificent.  Traffic during the Players Championship is always unbearable because there is no easy access to the course.  All there is is Ponte Vedra Blvd. north or south right along the ocean.  Parking is almost impossible.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

Since when is a contraversy not media driven?

ab348

abacomike said:

Another issue might be the inadequate training and flight experience of the pilots and co-pilots on how to disengage the computer software that controls the nose down response of the aircraft to a nose up situation in the event of a loss of control.

In doing some reading on the subject it appears the software can conspire with faulty sensors to cause the very dangerous nose-down situation. But you hit the nail on the head regarding pilot training. Supposedly if that worst-case situation occurs, the software can be disabled in seconds with the push of two buttons, but this was not outlined anywhere that pilots would know about, at least in some cases.

ruking1

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

Not to down play the twin tragedies one iota, but while it’s looking more & more like pilots’ error’s due to lack of training & government inaction, etc., stuff like this moves a whole lot of areas, including stock markets.

Mr_Shiftright

We should have a "Best Of" contest!

stickguy

well, if it is pilot error due to that, then they should be grounded until every pilot is uptrained/retrained and verified they know what to do, and the apparent pending software update is made.

oldfarmer50

venture said:

Oh. I got my Legacy back a day or so ago.

If you remember, or care, we figured about $550 in parts and who knows what else when they "open it up". $2,500 seemed about right and they said 3 or 4 days. I forget who said $4k would probably be more like it.

Well...it ended up being 2 weeks and a little over $4,000; plus over $700 for a rental. Man!

So now your neighbor hates you for what she thinks is a gouge?

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

@driver100

What are you doing? Starting your own college? EUF

imidazol97 said:

@driver100

What are you doing? Starting your own college? EUF

I should have made clear that "EUF" was Edmunds University of Florida.

dino001

I find “it’s all made up” attitude a bit cavalier and misguided. We don’t know if there is a problem with the plane and if so, how big, but planes have been grounded for lesser reasons than 300 people dying on two planes going down in seemingly similar circumstances. That’s how modern aviation became so safe - caution, deliberation and honest investigations. I think Boeing was quite tone deaf in first days after the crash and using its influence to lean on FAA to make it last government to ground the plane, was disappointing to say the least, but more like unconscionable. That puts FAA at reputation risk as agency that might care more about the corporations it oversees than public it is supposed to protect.

I’m also quite distressed by what looked to me like some people immediately running into „us vs. them” tribal corners, alleging it must be some kind of worldwide conspiracy against Boeing, cause ya know, it’s American, so it has to be the best and those other people, they live in shacks, eat worms and now they dare to question our superior technology. Just like on the other side of the Atlantic others were triumphantly shouting “take it suckas”. I think both are unhelpfull and really callous in light of those victims and pain of their families.

I don’t know if it was the plane, the pilots, the ground crew, or what. Five separete American pilots reported problems during early flight stages, indicating the autopilot was not performing as expected. It’s been also widely reported that Boeing did not fully document the features of the system in its flight manual or training procedures. They might have meant well, trying to avoid information overload, but if true, it surely looks like serious lapse of judgment, regardless of the motivation. They were so keen on selling the idea that „it’s the same, just better” that they might have overdone it. That’s regardless of what is the direct cause of those two crashes.

I’m sure, if there is a real problem (that’s still an if), Boeing will figure out, fix it and the plane will be fine. But if even half of the reports are true, Boeing should and probably will pay for some of the claims and they can only hope it’s just with money, not reputation.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

Oh. I got my Legacy back a day or so ago.

If you remember, or care, we figured about $550 in parts and who knows what else when they "open it up". $2,500 seemed about right and they said 3 or 4 days. I forget who said $4k would probably be more like it.

Well...it ended up being 2 weeks and a little over $4,000; plus over $700 for a rental. Man!

So now your neighbor hates you for what she thinks is a gouge?

That was suydam who had the neighbor collision. Mine was when I backed into the mail truck the moron parked right across from my driveway as I leave my garage.

oldfarmer50

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

Oh. I got my Legacy back a day or so ago.

If you remember, or care, we figured about $550 in parts and who knows what else when they "open it up". $2,500 seemed about right and they said 3 or 4 days. I forget who said $4k would probably be more like it.

Well...it ended up being 2 weeks and a little over $4,000; plus over $700 for a rental. Man!

So now your neighbor hates you for what she thinks is a gouge?

That was suydam who had the neighbor collision. Mine was when I backed into the mail truck the moron parked right across from my driveway as I leave my garage.

Oh sorry, got confused with all the car mayhem lately. So I guess it’s you who has the grudge.

driver100

Dino....your post about Boeing and the max 737 is right on. When lives are at stake, and multi $ million planes are at stake, and the reputation of a large company, you would think they would cover all the bases....including training the pilots properly.
In an airplane, a 3% error in judgement, not being able to turn off the auto pilot, can make a 100% error in whether that plane has a safe trip.
They'll fix the problem, it is too important not to fix it, but passenger planes should not be the test ground.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

Oh. I got my Legacy back a day or so ago.

If you remember, or care, we figured about $550 in parts and who knows what else when they "open it up". $2,500 seemed about right and they said 3 or 4 days. I forget who said $4k would probably be more like it.

Well...it ended up being 2 weeks and a little over $4,000; plus over $700 for a rental. Man!

So now your neighbor hates you for what she thinks is a gouge?

That was suydam who had the neighbor collision. Mine was when I backed into the mail truck the moron parked right across from my driveway as I leave my garage.

Oh sorry, got confused with all the car mayhem lately. So I guess it’s you who has the grudge.

Yes.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

I find “it’s all made up” attitude a bit cavalier and misguided.

I don't think anyone is saying it's all made up but that there seems to be more media coverage on it then there really should be. And yes the media does do that, they latch onto a story and won't let go like a rabid bulldog. There usually is some story that the media over reports on to the point where they cannot give proper coverage to all the rest of the news.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

It’s time to get the Boeing cargo planes ready. Lots of fake news & half true news. My opinion, if I had to fly Boeing 737 max 8, put me on it.

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

Actually, the media only knows 50% of the Boeing saga. Those planes should have been grounded much sooner than they were by the U.S. Boeing called in some political “favors”! Didn’t matter. FAA had all the evidence they needed, but were stopped from grounding the Max sooner.

fintail

A federal organization closely linked to a large corporation in an oligocracy? Say it aint so

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I the only one who thinks this 737 controversy is 50% media driven?

Every public controversy/issue is media driven to some more or less greater extent. Weather, politics, causes, etc.

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

dino001 said:

I find “it’s all made up” attitude a bit cavalier and misguided.

I don't think anyone is saying it's all made up but that there seems to be more media coverage on it then there really should be. And yes the media does do that, they latch onto a story and won't let go like a rabid bulldog. There usually is some story that the media over reports on to the point where they cannot give proper coverage to all the rest of the news.

It depends on where a person lands on the internet for their news, doesn't it? There are sober outlets that don't pander to hysteria. Professional journalism isn't entirely dead.....yet.

What does seem factual.....immediate control problems on take off...dangerous rate of acceleration...rapid oscillations in altitude....(determined by radar) a somewhat panicked request from the pilot to return to the airport (from control tower personnel comments), a hard turn to the right....and then the crash.

berri

I think the US hurt its reputation on this incident by kind of just staying out of it until almost forced to do something. Hence, the flight boxes to France instead, which I believe is perfectly capable of analyzing them. I start to get concerned that the US is losing its trust factor around he world. Not a good thing in the long term if true.

ruking1

Right now Boeing (BA) is @ $368. & change.🛬 it’s a slow news day. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-happens-when-an-airline-cant-fly-its-planes-144608838.html

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

I find “it’s all made up” attitude a bit cavalier and misguided.

I don't think anyone is saying it's all made up but that there seems to be more media coverage on it then there really should be. And yes the media does do that, they latch onto a story and won't let go like a rabid bulldog. There usually is some story that the media over reports on to the point where they cannot give proper coverage to all the rest of the news.

It depends on where a person lands on the internet for their news, doesn't it? There are sober outlets that don't pander to hysteria. Professional journalism isn't entirely dead.....yet. What does seem factual.....immediate control problems on take off...dangerous rate of acceleration...rapid oscillations in altitude....(determined by radar) a somewhat panicked request from the pilot to return to the airport (from control tower personnel comments), a hard turn to the right....and then the crash.

Well I was thinking of more mainstream media such as local and network TV news, news papers, radio and the such. 

snakeweasel

Never forget 3/15/-44

oldfarmer50

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2019 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

snakeweasel said:

dino001 said:

I find “it’s all made up” attitude a bit cavalier and misguided.

I don't think anyone is saying it's all made up but that there seems to be more media coverage on it then there really should be. And yes the media does do that, they latch onto a story and won't let go like a rabid bulldog. There usually is some story that the media over reports on to the point where they cannot give proper coverage to all the rest of the news.

It depends on where a person lands on the internet for their news, doesn't it? There are sober outlets that don't pander to hysteria. Professional journalism isn't entirely dead.....yet.

What does seem factual.....immediate control problems on take off...dangerous rate of acceleration...rapid oscillations in altitude....(determined by radar) a somewhat panicked request from the pilot to return to the airport (from control tower personnel comments), a hard turn to the right....and then the crash.

Well I was thinking of more mainstream media such as local and network TV news, news papers, radio and the such. 

Yeah, me too. There's a wide spectrum of quality out there.

ab348

Congrats, @oldfarmer50 ! The Soul is pretty well-liked. Is it replacing a member of the fleet?

stickguy

enjoy OF. Nice color. Works well to help mute the lines on that car. Sounds like a good deal. I like those, but my wife would never go for it.

Michaell

@oldfarmer50 - congrats on the new car! Looks like a great fit for the family. Plus the long warranty

ruking1

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2919 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Good shooting! Keep us posted on how you like the car.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2919 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Good luck with it @oldfarmer50 but I suggest you get that right front side buffed out before you take it home. If not, that's a good way to get in a few laps around the dinning room table:

I'm sure you have driven a few of these at Enterprise but a few personal updates are more meaningful.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

Never forget 3/15/-44

Did you waste a whole bottle of salad dressing for that? Slow news day indeed.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Congrats, @oldfarmer50 ! The Soul is pretty well-liked. Is it replacing a member of the fleet?

Yeah, the PT which at only 46k mileage is showing it’s age. After I fix a few things I’ll hand it down to my son for Uber use.

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2019 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2019 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Congrats, I bet you will really like it. Good price too.

ruking1

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Congrats, @oldfarmer50 ! The Soul is pretty well-liked. Is it replacing a member of the fleet?

Yeah, the PT which at only 46k mileage is showing it’s age. After I fix a few things I’ll hand it down to my son for Uber use.

May I ask: what in the 46,000 miles (PT) makes it show its age?

suydam

Congrats! As we, ahem, age, it’s good to have one vehicle in the fleet with easy ingress. I like the color on that vehicle, makes it look less cartoony. Will be interested to hear driving impressions.

fintail

The Soul is perhaps the least pretentious new car on sale, the definition of cheap and cheerful. May it serve you well.

I like this design more than the new one.

28firefighter

Congrats, @oldfarmer50!

In other news, I filed my taxes today and loaned the government way too much money last year. I aim to come out at zero or owing a bit, and that just did not happen.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2019 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610. Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that. It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Congrats on the new car. Hope you have many wonderful miles with her.

Now in a few years you will get s letter from your dealership trying to get you to trade it in for a newer car. That letter will start out with "We want your soul"

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

Never forget 3/15/-44

Did you waste a whole bottle of salad dressing for that? Slow news day indeed.

That's the beauty of the internet, somewhere some idiot already did it and posted the picture. So all we have to do is spend a few seconds to find it. 

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just got home from the dealer with a new 2919 Kia Soul+. Got it for got it for $18287 plus TTL. Beat Edmunds TMV of $19000 and TrueCar’s ‘great deal’ of $18885. Sticker was $21610.



Pretty routine transaction. Only glitch was when we disagreed on the sales tax. I forgot that good old NY taxes the rebates which boosted the price $160. Minimum upsell for warranties. Did you know dealers offer a warranty for losing your keys or flat tires? Had to suppress the urge to chuckle at that.

It’s an ugly little car but since it’s the only one that gave my mobility impaired wife easy entry it’ll do for grocery runs.

Good luck with it @oldfarmer50 but I suggest you get that right front side buffed out before you take it home. If not, that's a good way to get in a few laps around the dinning room table:

I'm sure you have driven a few of these at Enterprise but a few personal updates are more meaningful.

jmonroe

That’s a photo off the dealer website and I’m guessing that’s plastic residue from shipping that wasn’t fully removed. Notice the little blue door ding guards too. All was fine at delivery.

Reminds me of when one of the younger guys at work was asked to do a ‘personal favor’ for the boss. He thought he was special until he found out he’d be stripping plastic off hundreds of new deliveries over in our receiving lot.

He did it for about 6 hours before he told the boss that he’d quit before he did any more.

jmonroe1

Here's my personal auto-pilot (AP) story. As I have mentioned before, when I was in the Navy I was an Airdale and was a member of a flight crew. Not as a pilot but as a loader on cargo planes of which our squadron had several types. Although my primary duty was as a loader I sat in the flight engineers seat quite often since my job when not flying was as an electrical / instrumentation person. This particular story was when I was in a non-turbo two engine plane that the Navy designated as an R4Y:

We were about 2 hours into a flight from Patuxent River MD (better known as PAX River) headed for Key West FL when the pilot decided to turn off the AP and fly the plane because he was getting bored. Not uncommon at all. Anyway, when he hit the AP release push-button mounted on the top right side of the yoke, nothing happened. He blurted out, "what the hell"? and asked the co-pilot if he could release it from his yoke. The co-pilot hit his button and the AP released. The pilot turned to me and said, "well jmonroe, what are we (really just me) going to do about this"? I told him we couldn't fix it in the air and even when we landed, we didn't have a spare switch in our box of parts, so I'd have to see if some squadron in Key West had a plane that used the same yoke mounted switch. He said, "do a quick check but we can't waste all day since we have to get some cargo and get it down to Gitmo" (Cuba). No luck with finding a switch so he agreed to fly the plane using the co-pilots engage/release AP button. The co-pilot asked "and what happens if my switch acts up, do we just pull the circuit breaker or what"? Pulling the circuit breaker is what we decided to do. The only other thing to do, although it wouldn't be nearly as fast, would have been to remove the AP power Cannon plug connector on the AP amplifier that was mounted in a small instrument rack located behind the pilots seat (slightly to the rear left of the flight engineers jump seat) in the aisle just before you climb into the cockpit. So, since we had a few backups, the pilot decided to go onto Gitmo.

To this day I can still see that AP circuit breaker that was mounted on the circuit breaker panel right behind the co-pilots seat. It was circuit breaker No. 16 (second row down, 4th breaker from the left). Funny how some things stick with you.

jmonroe

sda

OF, a good friend's wife bought her 2nd Kia Soul as she liked her 1st one so much. It provided her good service for over 170k. She has a 100 mi commute each way. Enjoy!