Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

breld said:

So I'm in full on search mode for a Civic Type R - obsessively scanning forums and online listings, calling and emailing dealerships nationwide.

If I would have accurately foreseen my desire to own one, I would have been more diligent about giving a deposit at a reputable dealership months ago. But I didn't.

There are indeed several available out there, but with crazy markups, or subject to a bidding war. There are a number of dealerships amenable to MSRP, but they naturally have long waiting lists at this point.

Anyway, with this great network of enthusiasts across the nation, I thought I'd simply ask if anyone happens to see or hear of a Type R available in their area from a reputable dealer accepting MSRP, feel free to pass along that info my way. I'm absolutely open to having a car shipped or traveling to obtain one.

Have you checked truecar?

Definitely be patient.

To me, $35k for a FWD econohatch is already more than enough.

stickguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

dealers closed on Sunday in Jersey. But, my daughter said she is getting out a little early from work tomorrow, and she is not booked socially, so that we could go out after dinner to drive some cars. Now just need to decide where to go.

Remind us, what's on the list and what have you already driven?

I don't know and hard to remember!

Ok, I drove a civic touring, and Mini hatchback 4 door S model stickshift. List also has an Si civic, new accord (EX and sport), Golf WB manual, and TLX. Daughter wants to see the upcoming new Jetta (I do too). Plus more to come. Maybe a maxima, S60 Volvo, and 2018 sonata 2.0t sport.

Michaell

benjaminh said:

A video of someone paying $5000 more than msrp for a new Civic Type R....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk-lHxPnpiU

There was an interesting article (either TTAC or Jalopnik, can't remember now), about how dealer greed all but screwed up the launch of the Focus RS. In fact, 2 years or so after release, there are still some dealers asking $10K or more over sticker for them.

Due to lack of sales, Ford will be dropping the RS in the not-too-distant future.

Hope not to see a repeat of that with the Type R.

stickguy

Also drove an Elantra sport AT. Forgot about that one. Might take a stick out at some point

qbrozen

Michaell said:

There was an interesting article (either TTAC or Jalopnik, can't remember now), about how dealer greed all but screwed up the launch of the Focus RS. In fact, 2 years or so after release, there are still some dealers asking $10K or more over sticker for them.

Due to lack of sales, Ford will be dropping the RS in the not-too-distant future.

Hope not to see a repeat of that with the Type R.

Truecar showing $1700 off the 2017 RS in my area.

roadburner

Michaell said:

benjaminh said:

A video of someone paying $5000 more than msrp for a new Civic Type R....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk-lHxPnpiU

There was an interesting article (either TTAC or Jalopnik, can't remember now), about how dealer greed all but screwed up the launch of the Focus RS. In fact, 2 years or so after release, there are still some dealers asking $10K or more over sticker for them.

Due to lack of sales, Ford will be dropping the RS in the not-too-distant future.

Hope not to see a repeat of that with the Type R.

My nearest Ford dealer offered me their first RS at MSRP but I wanted the X Plan price.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

So I'm in full on search mode for a Civic Type R - obsessively scanning forums and online listings, calling and emailing dealerships nationwide.

If I would have accurately foreseen my desire to own one, I would have been more diligent about giving a deposit at a reputable dealership months ago. But I didn't.

There are indeed several available out there, but with crazy markups, or subject to a bidding war. There are a number of dealerships amenable to MSRP, but they naturally have long waiting lists at this point.

Anyway, with this great network of enthusiasts across the nation, I thought I'd simply ask if anyone happens to see or hear of a Type R available in their area from a reputable dealer accepting MSRP, feel free to pass along that info my way. I'm absolutely open to having a car shipped or traveling to obtain one.

Manly Honda in Santa Rosa is offering a 3-day money back guarantee, if you keep the car under 250 miles. I would volunteer to break one in for you (I use the motorcycle break-in method for new engines and I swear by it).

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

There was an interesting article (either TTAC or Jalopnik, can't remember now), about how dealer greed all but screwed up the launch of the Focus RS. In fact, 2 years or so after release, there are still some dealers asking $10K or more over sticker for them.

Due to lack of sales, Ford will be dropping the RS in the not-too-distant future.

Hope not to see a repeat of that with the Type R.

Truecar showing $1700 off the 2017 RS in my area.

What data points does TC use to come up with that number?

Better yet, use cars.com to find all Focus for sale, and sort by price descending.

Highest price is, ironically, here in Denver - $49,760.

134 with asking prices north of $40K

breld

Thanks all for the input and assistance on the Type R search!

@Marcothecarguy1986 - well, that's definitely beyond the call of duty. But hey, if you have any luck I won't decline the assistance!

@benjaminh - yeah, I think by next Spring there will be more availability. I would guess discounts, if any, will be minimal. I'm just so bad at waiting! But no so bad that I'm willing to pay anything over MSRP. That video of $5k over MSRP - that's considered a pretty fair deal among early adopters on the Civic forum I've been keeping up with!

@pensfan83 - I'll definitely check Baierl out. I seem to have seen positive experiences from buyers in the Pittsburgh area, and I do think the larger dealers are receiving more allocations.

@qbrozen - yeah, I'm firm at keeping at MSRP for the Type R, though I'll consider paying for shipping if I find one remotely. I think Honda priced it fairly for what it is - it more or less competes with the "upper tier" of its class, like the STI, Golf R and Focus RS, but being FWD, it has a bit of a disadvantage - and that's reflected in it being priced at least a few thousand less than those. But I've been following closely the early adopters on the Civic forums - there are definitely several who purchased at MSRP, but there are many more cases of buyers spending thousands more, and one of them...$20k more.

Most of the posters are realistic about it - saying that within 6-12 months it will die down, which is absolutely correct.

I just corresponded with Honda of Lincoln, who is offering the Type R's at MSRP (plus throwing in a 1 year protection package (paintless dent repair, wheel repair, etc.) - not that I care that much, but at least there's not some extra charge). They have 5 individuals with deposits currently - which sounds a lot better than being #16 at my local dealership.

breld

Mr_Shiftright said:

breld said:

So I'm in full on search mode for a Civic Type R - obsessively scanning forums and online listings, calling and emailing dealerships nationwide.

If I would have accurately foreseen my desire to own one, I would have been more diligent about giving a deposit at a reputable dealership months ago. But I didn't.

There are indeed several available out there, but with crazy markups, or subject to a bidding war. There are a number of dealerships amenable to MSRP, but they naturally have long waiting lists at this point.

Anyway, with this great network of enthusiasts across the nation, I thought I'd simply ask if anyone happens to see or hear of a Type R available in their area from a reputable dealer accepting MSRP, feel free to pass along that info my way. I'm absolutely open to having a car shipped or traveling to obtain one.

Manly Honda in Santa Rosa is offering a 3-day money back guarantee, if you keep the car under 250 miles. I would volunteer to break one in for you (I use the motorcycle break-in method for new engines and I swear by it).

Hey! I'd take you up on that!

Michaell

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

breld

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

Close in look, but nope. Ours had beige leather seats instead of the sport seats, and also had different wheels (not that those couldn't have been changed). Someone from Nebraska came out and bought ours.

Nice though - wonder how much it would go for.

Michaell

breld said:

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

Close in look, but nope. Ours had beige leather seats instead of the sport seats, and also had different wheels (not that those couldn't have been changed). Someone from Nebraska came out and bought ours.

Nice though - wonder how much it would go for.

This one isn't marked "No Reserve" (though there are plenty of others for sale that are marked as such), so no idea what the owner is looking to get.

We can get @roadburner to give us an estimate.

Michaell

Not only can you buy the classic car of your dreams; you can also buy the transportation to get it home:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291892/1936-autocar-car-hauler/

Michaell

And one that is truly unique here in the states:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291485/1991-toyota-soarer-gt-limited/

pensfan83

Michaell said:

What data points does TC use to come up with that number?

Better yet, use cars.com to find all Focus for sale, and sort by price descending.

Highest price is, ironically, here in Denver - $49,760.

134 with asking prices north of $40K

I'm curious about this as well. I didn't use any 3rd party for data during my last purchase and based on the values being returned for some of the vehicles I have settled on I'm probably on the aggressive side with what I was thinking of for offers on all of them.

stickguy

got an email from Honda about the new updated (I think, or redesigned?) 2018 Fit. Looks nice. Good value. An EX has a moonroof and car play, and with a stick, is only MSRP $19,000. Not sure my wife would be enthused by it, but surprisingly roomy and practical for something so small. Of course, might change my mind after driving one.

thebean

Michaell said:

And one that is truly unique here in the states:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291485/1991-toyota-soarer-gt-limited/

JDM version of Lexus SC400?

thebean

stickguy said:

got an email from Honda about the new updated (I think, or redesigned?) 2018 Fit. Looks nice. Good value. An EX has a moonroof and car play, and with a stick, is only MSRP $19,000. Not sure my wife would be enthused by it, but surprisingly roomy and practical for something so small. Of course, might change my mind after driving one.

They are really tinny and cheap feeling. We drove one before the wife chose the Civic. They are better than a Toyota Yaris hatch, but still a ways away from the Corolla iM, which was really very nice for the price.

benjaminh

breld said:

Thanks all for the input and assistance on the Type R search!

@Marcothecarguy1986 - well, that's definitely beyond the call of duty. But hey, if you have any luck I won't decline the assistance!

@benjaminh - yeah, I think by next Spring there will be more availability. I would guess discounts, if any, will be minimal. I'm just so bad at waiting! ....

Just a brainstorm here, and almost certainly not what you're looking for, but in just a few months you'll be able to get a 2018 Accord Sport with a slightly less powerful version of the Type R's 2.0T, plus probably an identical 6-speed manual—for an msrp of about $5000 less. Just a thought. My guess is that the 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT will list for c. $30k. Of course, I realize it's not nearly as exclusive as the Type R, and not quite as fast, but....

Michaell

thebean said:

Michaell said:

And one that is truly unique here in the states:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291485/1991-toyota-soarer-gt-limited/

JDM version of Lexus SC400?

Exactly. Now that the 25 year period has expired, these can be imported into the US.

benjaminh

And I'm sure you've thought of this, but a 2018 Accord Sport sort-of Type R will likely save you thousands of dollars on car insurance.

stickguy

I am really thinking of the Accord Sport as a better option to the Si Civic, assuming the 1.5t model has the minimum acceptable level of options. Sounds like the 2.0T will be loaded, but I would be fine with the base engine and more manageable price tag!

Michaell

benjaminh said:

breld said:

Thanks all for the input and assistance on the Type R search!

@Marcothecarguy1986 - well, that's definitely beyond the call of duty. But hey, if you have any luck I won't decline the assistance!

@benjaminh - yeah, I think by next Spring there will be more availability. I would guess discounts, if any, will be minimal. I'm just so bad at waiting! ....

Just a brainstorm here, and almost certainly not what you're looking for, but in just a few months you'll be able to get a 2018 Accord Sport with a slightly less powerful version of the Type R's 2.0T, plus probably an identical 6-speed manual—for an msrp of about $5000 less. Just a thought. My guess is that the 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT will list for c. $30k. Of course, I realize it's not nearly as exclusive as the Type R, and not quite as fast, but....

And, not as garish to look at.

But, the Type R is a halo vehicle, with limited availability, and @breld has some major jonesing going on for it. I've never known him to not get the vehicle he sets his sights on, eventually.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

What data points does TC use to come up with that number?

Better yet, use cars.com to find all Focus for sale, and sort by price descending.

Highest price is, ironically, here in Denver - $49,760.

134 with asking prices north of $40K

truecar is a buying/selling service, so that should not be an estimate but an actual price you can buy it for by using their service. I've never actually done it, I have only used it as a negotiation tool.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

What data points does TC use to come up with that number?

Better yet, use cars.com to find all Focus for sale, and sort by price descending.

Highest price is, ironically, here in Denver - $49,760.

134 with asking prices north of $40K

truecar is a buying/selling service, so that should not be an estimate but an actual price you can buy it for by using their service. I've never actually done it, I have only used it as a negotiation tool.

Not sure if you read this, but a cautionary tale about TrueCar:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/07/buying-truecar-really-helped-pay-truck/

pensfan83

That makes more sense...and after reading the article I would rather just stay with what's worked in the past for me.

EDIT: probably should have read some of the other articles out there before rendering an opinion. Seems like a mixed bag with opinions dependent on the result.

thebean

Michaell said:

thebean said:

Michaell said:

And one that is truly unique here in the states:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291485/1991-toyota-soarer-gt-limited/

JDM version of Lexus SC400?

Exactly. Now that the 25 year period has expired, these can be imported into the US.

I always thought those were great looking cars. They were too dear for my pocketbook back then, but I loved the design. Didn't know there was a Toyota variant in Japan. Thanks for the link.

roadburner

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

That's my cars identical twin. BMW NA called it a Club Sport rather than an M Sport, FWIW. And I think closer to 400 were built. I have the dealer ordering info and it states that there were 400 slots scheduled for an October SOP.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

That's my cars identical twin. BMW NA called it a Club Sport rather than an M Sport, FWIW. And I think closer to 400 were built. I have the dealer ordering info and it states that there were 400 slots scheduled for an October SOP.

Any thoughts as to what it might bring at auction?

qbrozen

Michaell said:

What data points does TC use to come up with that number? Better yet, use cars.com to find all Focus for sale, and sort by price descending. Highest price is, ironically, here in Denver - $49,760. 134 with asking prices north of $40K

truecar is a buying/selling service, so that should not be an estimate but an actual price you can buy it for by using their service. I've never actually done it, I have only used it as a negotiation tool.

Not sure if you read this, but a cautionary tale about TrueCar: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/07/buying-truecar-really-helped-pay-truck/

Interesting enough anecdote, but hardly the norm. I got a great deal on my Mustang by flashing the truecar price. Got shown the door by a mazda dealer once upon a time because "no way can we give that truecar price." And made a Chrysler GM go into convulsive fits when I threatened to walk away and just use truecar to buy the vehicle. YES, I have also run into examples where I felt their price was too high. So use it for what you will. But, in the case above, if you are only getting quotes of MSRP or higher, why not give truecar a shot at their below MSRP price?

stickguy

Low miles, only $7k. Would anyone touch it?

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2004-jaguar-xj-4dr_sedan_vdp-used-16619070.html

breld

@benjaminh - that upcoming Accord Sport is definitely on the list, but at least 2 cars down the road after the Type R.

Wife and I were actually talking specifically about this over breakfast this weekend, and she said she would actively talk me out of the Accord right now since I've been hankering for the Civic for a while now. We agreed the Accord may be a nice change after satisfying the Type R craving - something with a similar drivetrain, but much more comfortable and mature.

Plus, that Accord, assuming you can find one, will make a much better used car buy. I believe a manual Accord would take a big hit on depreciation from new, whereas the Type R obviously will not.

mjfloyd1

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver. Was this yours? https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

Close in look, but nope. Ours had beige leather seats instead of the sport seats, and also had different wheels (not that those couldn't have been changed). Someone from Nebraska came out and bought ours. Nice though - wonder how much it would go for.

This one isn't marked "No Reserve" (though there are plenty of others for sale that are marked as such), so no idea what the owner is looking to get. We can get @roadburner to give us an estimate.

Keep in mind that there is a 10% buyers premium and a 10% sellers premium that are both paid to Mecum

mjfloyd1

Michaell said:

Not only can you buy the classic car of your dreams; you can also buy the transportation to get it home: https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291892/1936-autocar-car-hauler/

That looks exactly like one that didn't sell in Indy when I was there

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

Looks like a fair amount of orange peel on the trunk lid doesn't it?

That's right--you should deduct 20% from the posted auction price to get the "hammer price".

I'd guess $4500 to $5200, more or less.

Michaell

mjfloyd1 said:

Michaell said:

Not only can you buy the classic car of your dreams; you can also buy the transportation to get it home:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291892/1936-autocar-car-hauler/

That looks exactly like one that didn't sell in Indy when I was there

What's the auction equivalent of a "lot queen"?

Michaell

breld said:

@benjaminh - that upcoming Accord Sport is definitely on the list, but at least 2 cars down the road after the Type R.

Wife and I were actually talking specifically about this over breakfast this weekend, and she said she would actively talk me out of the Accord right now since I've been hankering for the Civic for a while now. We agreed the Accord may be a nice change after satisfying the Type R craving - something with a similar drivetrain, but much more comfortable and mature.

Plus, that Accord, assuming you can find one, will make a much better used car buy. I believe a manual Accord would take a big hit on depreciation from new, whereas the Type R obviously will not.

Let's not forget the Miata RF that is in your future, too. Or, is that one of the two cars between the Type R and the Accord 2.0T Sport?

mjfloyd1

Michaell said:

Michaell said:

Not only can you buy the classic car of your dreams; you can also buy the transportation to get it home: https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291892/1936-autocar-car-hauler/

That looks exactly like one that didn't sell in Indy when I was there

What's the auction equivalent of a "lot queen"?

?auction lizard?

stickguy

If I get an Accord, it will likely be a long term keeper. And if I want a stick, that is what I will get. Can always sell it if need be, to one of the other die hards left out there! Real trick will be finding one in stock to try out, let along buy.

the RF does nothing for me. If I get a Miata, it will be a real one.

ab348

Michaell said:

Let's not forget the Miata RF that is in your future, too. Or, is that one of the two cars between the Type R and the Accord 2.0T Sport?

I'm sure there could be a couple of weeks in between those two that would allow one of those to be fitted in...

roadburner

Michaell said:

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

@breld - was reviewing the list of cars up for auction at Mecum this weekend here in Denver.

Was this yours?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0717-291839/1995-bmw-318ti-m-sport/

That's my cars identical twin. BMW NA called it a Club Sport rather than an M Sport, FWIW. And I think closer to 400 were built. I have the dealer ordering info and it states that there were 400 slots scheduled for an October SOP.

Any thoughts as to what it might bring at auction?

Beats me; I'd say $10k is all the money and a tick over $5k would not surprise me.

breld

FWIW, we bought our low mileage (relatively, at 108k miles) 1995 318ti locally for $5,500 and sold it several months later for $4,900.

So $5k seems about right, but who knows. If someone really wants a nice example (presumably), they may pay to play.

breld

Yeah, I'm probably off the Miata RF too - I've read enough, including the article @michaell posted, to determine that although I like the lines of the RF overall, sounds like it's a real detriment to the top down experience - which of course, is quite silly when buying a Miata.

A soft top will be easily obtainable next Spring/Summer when Mrs. Breld has tired of her convertible experience.

Although you can hardly get her to put that top up, even in light rain. Crazy how she didn't care much for our previous Miata or the two 3-series convertibles we've had, but she loves the experience with her new Beetle.

breld

And...I'm #6 in line for a Type R from Honda of Lincoln.

Talked to a salesperson there this afternoon, and it was a refreshingly easy experience. No mark-up, including no D&H or other fees. He asked for my top three color choices, and made no bones about the deposit being fully refundable - that it is just simply a way for them to differentiate between the serious buyers and the lookie-loos.

I imagine they may not get the same number of allocated models as the large dealer here in Denver, but I've gotta think being #6 is better than #16 at the Denver one.

Michaell

@breld - does anyone know how many Type R's are coming to the US?

tbirdmarco

@breld no problem any time man really do injoy doing this a lot used to do it mor for the hell of it! did try to start my one auto finding bizness for peapol few years back no luck with the internet and all just payed bunch of muny for an websight still have it! everything is alwas worth an shot! want to get in to the auto feald one day will keep on trying! and never give up!

tbirdmarco

@breld did call two dealers today so far. Honda City and HUntingthon Honda boath on long Island HOnda City said they should be getting an few in in the next few weeks! they took down my name and number! Huntington Honda told me they just solde the one that they had but are getting in sum mor to in the next few weeks. also took down my name and number. Told them Helping out an frend of mine who lives in an nother state! if anyone elce neads any help to as whell just ask!

tbirdmarco

@breld will call mor dealers this week! and when get any phone calls will let you no! and I will ask them if they are selling them at MSRP if they are doing any crazy markups will not bother with them!

breld

Marcothecarguy1986 said:

@breld did call two dealers today so far. Honda City and HUntingthon Honda boath on long Island HOnda City said they should be getting an few in in the next few weeks! they took down my name and number! Huntington Honda told me they just solde the one that they had but are getting in sum mor to in the next few weeks. also took down my name and number. Told them Helping out an frend of mine who lives in an nother state! if anyone elce neads any help to as whell just ask!

That's so awesome! Thanks @Marcothecarguy1986!