Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Michaell

So glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

Lordy, lordy.

andres3

The new Civic is stuck at 200 HP from decades ago, and the new GTI has moved up to 240+. That's a 20% difference.

benjaminh

andres3 said:

The new Civic is stuck at 200 HP from decades ago, and the new GTI has moved up to 240+. That's a 20% difference.

As you say, the GTI is more powerful and much faster than the Civic Si.

But the base GTI's msrp is also $2200 higher than the Si's (before destination 27,300 vs 29,545).

The base GTI like the Si lacks a power driver's seat.

But the Civic Si has the following things standard that the base GTI lacks—"smart entry," moonroof, Bose premium stereo with xm, and dual zone climate control.

To get similar features on the GTI you need to get the SE, and by then the price difference is 7k.

The GTI has long been a dream car for me. I test drove a new one way back in 1990 and loved it. The power, handling, and functionality were awesome for that car. But the used Jetta that I ended up owning, although it also had great handling, turned out to be a nightmare for reliability and repair. Maybe things are better now for VW/Audi, but your experience and others with newer VWs and Audis sometimes raises some doubts.

The GTI is more of a real sports car than the Si, and the base model is still a great deal from my pov, but VW has also removed most physical buttons from the controls of the new GTI. As Motor Trend says, the design choice VW made in eliminating almost all the physical buttons from the new GTI, including even the volume knob, wasn't their favorite....

"Now we get to our singular glaring issue with the all-new VW GTI. It seems VW is keen on superimposing the all-electric ID4's interior tech onto its other new products, meaning the GTI's interior is almost entirely devoid of physical buttons. Instead, touch-capacitive panels adorn the dash and steering wheel, operating just about every function available. The headlights, climate control, drive modes, volume, tuning, cruise control, and cluster menu selection are all operated via these single-piece, backlit gloss plastic panels."

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-volkswagen-gti-first-test-first-drive-review/

I feel like Tesla can kind of make this work with the Model 3 because its electronic control screen is huge, but most others seemingly haven't figured out how to make this work very well.

benjaminh

The Giga Press, built by a company in Italy, is another innovation that Tesla is working on. Rather than having lots of pieces of a car body welded together, the Giga Press is able to mold it as two pieces. These machines are as big as a large house, weigh c. 450 tons, and cost many billions of dollars. But the bottom line is that if it works, and so far it seems to work, it will probably cut the manufacturing cost of Tesla's vehicles by a significant amount, while also resulting in higher quality.

Could Ford and/or VW buy a Giga Press? Yes. But at Tesla the Giga Press uses a proprietary formula of molten alloy, and then coats the casting with soy oil to make it come out of the press correctly. Tesla has spent years on material formulation, as well as all the other complicated things needed to make this work, and so seemingly has a head start of a few years. Can VW, GM, Ford and others catch up? They are trying, but obviously it's challenging. My guess is that they won't be able to catch up in the next five years, because clearly Tesla is continuing to innovate. The others might get close to where Tesla is now in 3-4 years, but by then Tesla will be in a different place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxkVBiAGhcs

stickguy

Sounds impractical for making escapes in Mexico.

stickguy

Charles’s again. Princess stole ours to go to the gym and some errands. Being stranded is upsetting!

stickguy

The civic is not slow, or way slower than a GTI. it’s a nicely balanced car and good power level for FWD. it’s also hundreds of pounds lighter and way cheaper.

benjaminh

The Civic Si is plenty fast from my pov. Motor Trend tested the last generation Si and got a 0-60 of 6.8, which sounds good to me. That's similar to my 2018 TLX with the 4-cylinder. Honda says they've improved the engine and transmission of the new Si, and so the 2022 Si might be a little faster.

But MT just tested the new GTI and they got a 0-60 of 5.4, which is faster than a rear-wheel drive Tesla Model 3. The Tesla Model 3 also costs 15k more. Even with the fuel savings of the Tesla it'll take you about ten years to make that difference up. But if the tax credit gets put back on for Tesla that'll obviously change things.

For andres the GTI might be a better choice, but an extended warranty might be a good idea.

stickguy

Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

jmonroe1

corvette said:

And this is what you get on the internet when people have nothing to do. Was kinda funny though.

jmonroe

tjc78

@stickguy said:
Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Is there anyone that would cross shop a Maverick and a Civic Si… oh wait 😆😆😆😆

28firefighter

@stickguy said:
Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Raises hand. Stands on desk.

sda

I admit to being intrigued by the Ford Maverick from a practical perspective. It is the right size, modesty priced and seems to be an easy to live with economical vehicle. Fun factor, nil. I am also interested in the Integra. Not a fan of boy racer looks, I prefer a sleeper but sporty look. Hoping there will be an Integra that benefits from Acura’s more premium touches while not jacking up the price over a Civic Touring hatchback. Memory seats with adjustable lumbar support over the Civic would be a real plus.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Not having much luck getting a Ford dealer to sell me a Mach E. Why are things overly difficult now? I got one still with an open recall they can’t sell. Another who keeps bugging me to buy a more expensive one than I want. Two who keep emailing me “we haven’t heard from you” when, in fact, they have but no real human has reached out. And one today who called and said “yes we have that in stock. Yes it is just msrp.” Ok, great, so sell it to me. “When can you come in to talk?” We’re talking now. I’ll take it. “Uhhh…ummm….I’ll have a sales associate call you Monday to go over your options.” Huh?? You have a car and a price and I have money and will pay what you are asking. This is classic case of talking yourself out of a sale. Close me! Now! No, I have to wait. WTH?

With the exception of a couple of stores I've found that the Ford dealers I've dealt with are only exceptional at p*ssing me off- like the one who sprung a "CPO fee" on me after I drove two hours to buy a car from them.

mjfloyd1

@28firefighter said:

@stickguy said:
Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Raises hand. Stands on desk.

Don’t jump. It’s not worth it

stickguy

tjc78 said:

@stickguy said:

Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Is there anyone that would cross shop a Maverick and a Civic Si… oh wait 😆😆😆😆

I guess I asked for that...

though I was talking to a Honda salesguy yesterday about a Ridgeline and Si at the same time. That seemed to confuse him. Can't imagine why. I told him that ultimately I want to have a utility vehicle (PU) and a fun, sporty toy car of some sort. I just can't afford both to be new or expensive. And finding a used truck worth owning these days is nearly impossible. So probably better option to try and find an older/cheaper fun car since there are a whole lot more options.

ab348

stickguy said:

I guess I asked for that...

though I was talking to a Honda salesguy yesterday about a Ridgeline and Si at the same time. That seemed to confuse him. Can't imagine why. I told him that ultimately I want to have a utility vehicle (PU) and a fun, sporty toy car of some sort. I just can't afford both to be new or expensive. And finding a used truck worth owning these days is nearly impossible. So probably better option to try and find an older/cheaper fun car since there are a whole lot more options.

https://youtu.be/U6WpYaseyW4

tjc78

@roadburner to the white courtesy phone:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-bmw-m6-75/

roadburner

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:

@stickguy said:

Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Is there anyone that would cross shop a Maverick and a Civic Si… oh wait 😆😆😆😆

I guess I asked for that...

though I was talking to a Honda salesguy yesterday about a Ridgeline and Si at the same time. That seemed to confuse him. Can't imagine why. I told him that ultimately I want to have a utility vehicle (PU) and a fun, sporty toy car of some sort. I just can't afford both to be new or expensive. And finding a used truck worth owning these days is nearly impossible. So probably better option to try and find an older/cheaper fun car since there are a whole lot more options.

Don't feel bad. When I worked at BMW another salesman and I spent hours showing cars to the wife of a well-known TV chef-she looked at everything from a 3 to a 7 to an X1 to an X5. She finally landed on an X3 and at that point her and her husband haggled with the sales guy for an hour over taking $25 off the monthly lease payment.

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

This person says that by April things should start getting better for chip supply/vehicle supply, and by July even better than that he predicts. By November of 2022 maybe more or less back to normal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsRoDkaFaWU

That guy seems to have the credentials (if you believe him). I’ve heard the same story about car chips being older and less profitable from other sources as well. On the down side I’ve read many predictions from other car “experts” about when the shortage will end. One said last December, another said this December and others were all over the place.

I hope this guy is right.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

@corvette said:

Oh. My. Goodness. Some days, the internet giveth.

That’s similar to the customer who when asked why she didn’t change her oil for 50,000 miles stated that the car had come with oil when she bought it.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Charles’s again. Princess stole ours to go to the gym and some errands. Being stranded is upsetting!

So you had to borrow a car from Charles?

nyccarguy

Good news. Cleaned out the garage a little this evening. All 194.5” of 2017 Pilot fits, so the Wrangler 4Xe will fit with room to spare.

kyfdx

Daughter-in-law’s new car. Picks it up, tomorrow.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:

@stickguy said:

Other than Breld, is there anybody that would be deciding between the Tesla and a GTI?

Is there anyone that would cross shop a Maverick and a Civic Si… oh wait 😆😆😆😆

I guess I asked for that...

though I was talking to a Honda salesguy yesterday about a Ridgeline and Si at the same time. That seemed to confuse him. Can't imagine why. I told him that ultimately I want to have a utility vehicle (PU) and a fun, sporty toy car of some sort. I just can't afford both to be new or expensive. And finding a used truck worth owning these days is nearly impossible. So probably better option to try and find an older/cheaper fun car since there are a whole lot more options.

Don't feel bad. When I worked at BMW another salesman and I spent hours showing cars to the wife of a well-known TV chef-she looked at everything from a 3 to a 7 to an X1 to an X5. She finally landed on an X3 and at that point her and her husband haggled with the sales guy for an hour over taking $25 off the monthly lease payment.

I’m guessing, with your help, those grinders got the salesman to split the difference, right?

jmonroe

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

benjaminh said:

This person says that by April things should start getting better for chip supply/vehicle supply, and by July even better than that he predicts. By November of 2022 maybe more or less back to normal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsRoDkaFaWU

That guy seems to have the credentials (if you believe him). I’ve heard the same story about car chips being older and less profitable from other sources as well. On the down side I’ve read many predictions from other car “experts” about when the shortage will end. One said last December, another said this December and others were all over the place.

I hope this guy is right.

I’m hoping he’s wrong so that the guys in here that have cars ordered will have them under the Christmas tree when they wake up on Christmas Morning.

jmonroe

tjc78

Mazda looks good in that color.

jmonroe1

kyfdx said:

Daughter-in-law’s new car. Picks it up, tomorrow.

If that’s the case she should have an extra bowl of Wheaties for breakfast in the morning.

jmonroe

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

<

That’s similar to the customer who when asked why she didn’t change her oil for 50,000 miles stated that the car had come with oil when she bought it.

From a forum that shall remain nameless- and yes, the idjit was serious:
"Hey guys so i have to send my DME in to RKTunes for a tune i bought and i was wondering if i'm able to drive my car without the DME in since it's my daily?
Let me know!
Thank you!"

ab348

tjc78 said:

Mazda looks good in that color.

I honestly could not detect a color.

qbrozen

@roadburner said:
From a forum that shall remain nameless- and yes, the idjit was serious:
"Hey guys so i have to send my DME in to RKTunes for a tune i bought and i was wondering if i'm able to drive my car without the DME in since it's my daily?
Let me know!
Thank you!"

My reply:
Absolutely.
Just leave some extra time for the journey because going uphill will take longer than usual.

au1994

stickguy said:

yeah, they claim to want a slightly modernized version of the type R. Which was always a low volume, expensive niche car. But going back to the last Integra (renamed RSX), that went away because nobody was buying it.

and I would bet the vast majority of people complaining online, if Acura did release a 2+2 hatch with unusable back seat, with expensive underpinnings and charged the $40K it would cost, wouldn't buy one anyway.

all through it's life, most of the Integra sales were more base models anyway, and though I don't have the numbers, would not surprise me at all if the 4 door outsold the 2 door, certainly once you got into the 2nd gen.

At least they used the Si Civic, and not the base car, as the entry level. Which is probably going to be quicker than almost every Integra that came before it!

I guess though with so many people wanting a small 2 door hatch with tiny back seats, the new BRZ/AE86 are going to sell like hotcakes!

Its the same people that will complain about the lack of brown, AWD, stick shift wagons on the market and yet will find a million reasons not to buy said wagon when one falls in their lap.

corvette

au1994 said:

...the lack of brown, AWD, stick shift wagons on the market...

But not diesel? Completely unacceptable.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

@roadburner to the white courtesy phone:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-bmw-m6-75/

That's a beautiful car. I'd want to R&R the timing chain and add the Motorsport Evo exhaust cam. And I'd fabricate an X-pipe to replace the overly restrictive catalyst.

mjfloyd1

It says added super sprint exhaust and catalytic converter delete so that’s less to worry about.

stickguy

that is a gorgeous car. Timeless classic. Makes some of the recent ones look terrible.

cdnpinhead

stickguy said:

Makes some of the recent ones look terrible.

This is not a difficult thing, but point taken.

xwesx

roadburner said:

That's a beautiful car. I'd want to R&R the timing chain and add the Motorsport Evo exhaust cam. And I'd fabricate an X-pipe to replace the overly restrictive catalyst.

What is going on with that door jam? Is that the result of a respray in a different color, or did the car actually come from the factory that way? Looks odd, either way.

roadburner

xwesx said:

roadburner said:

That's a beautiful car. I'd want to R&R the timing chain and add the Motorsport Evo exhaust cam. And I'd fabricate an X-pipe to replace the overly restrictive catalyst.

What is going on with that door jam? Is that the result of a respray in a different color, or did the car actually come from the factory that way? Looks odd, either way.

It's chrome; kind of a retro touch- even for the '70s.

xwesx

Oooh. I pulled it up and zoomed in and still couldn't really make it out. I thought maybe silver or white paint and felt it must be one lazy respray to not even try to get the door jams!

roadburner

I'm relatively certain that no one here will think it's a good idea, but I've run across a few low(under 30k miles) mileage 2005 TJ Rubicons. Not cheap, but a definite upgrade over my 1999. I really do like TJs; they make no pretense of being car-like.

28firefighter

@roadburner said:
I'm relatively certain that no one here will think it's a good idea, but I've run across a few low(under 30k miles) mileage 2005 TJ Rubicons. Not cheap, but a definite upgrade over my 1999. I really do like TJs; they make no pretense of being car-like.

Have you met our lord and savior, the Wrangler 4xE?

boomchek

Well I heard of dealer markups on some models during inventory shortage but this has to take the cake. Not sure who in their right mind will pay $40k over sticker on a RAV4. Even though we are short on inventory, we've been selling everything at MSRP, with no markups, and without any mandatory accessories or protection packages.

cdnpinhead

P.T. Barnum lives!

fintail

As if 50K MSRP on a RAV4 isn't enough.

Michaell

But ... but ... but, it's the special "Prime" version. Suprised the dealer isn't positioning it like a USDA piece of beef.

tjc78

ADM is just ridiculous on top of the mop-n-glo…

But the even bigger question to me is with a 50K budget why chose the RAV over soooooo many other better SUV choices at the price point?

The XC60 recharge and 4XE start only a few thousand higher

benjaminh

The new Ford F-150 Lightning EV is apparently already sold out for the next three years, although Ford has announced it's going to try to increase production.

https://electrek.co/2021/11/19/fords-lightning-order-numbers-dont-include-fleet-buyers-which-means-itll-be-sold-out-forever/

"Ford has upped its production plans for the F-150 before and announced big investments into adding EV production capacity. But as we’ve said before, it looks like the company’s going to have to do it again. Currently, Ford is planning to build 15,000 F-150s in 2022, 55,000 in 2023, and 80,000 in 2024. After that, the company will shift to its new EV-only TE1 truck platform. But that’s 150,000 trucks on the current platform, and at the beginning of this month, Ford shared that it has 160,000 reservations for the F-150 Lightning, up from 120,000 in August. And Ford now says the number is “approaching 200,000"....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxe352yOYyk&amp;t=202s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa879L8LOSo

benjaminh

".....Tesla’s Board Chair Robyn Denholm said, “By 2030, we are aiming to sell 20 million electric vehicles per year.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/08/teslas-goal-20-million-annual-car-sales-by-2030/

In 2021 Tesla is going to make about 900,000 vehicles worldwide, and so that would obviously be a mind-boggling increase.

It would mean that in 8 years Tesla will be by far the largest vehicle manufacturer in the world. Musk says he's aiming for production increases of close to 50% each year for the next several years.

But I take the 20 million vehicle figure for 2030 with a grain of salt, remembering Musk's promise of a $35,000 Model 3. The Model 3 currently has a starting msrp of over $46,000.

But I'd also guess that there's a good chance Tesla will get to at least 10 million vehicles a year by 2030, and already it's possible to see how the foundations for that factory capacity are being built.

In the US, Tesla has been expanding their Freemont factory over the past few years. This year Tesla Freemont is going to make about 450,000 vehicles, but if chip supplies and other supplies allow, in 2022 Tesla plans to make 600,000 EVs in Freemont.

https://insideevs.com/news/542318/tesla-production-sites-assignment-october2021/

And in January or so production is supposed to start at Tesla's Texas gigafactory, with first year production probably somewhere around 300,000, but in 2023 expected to get to about 600,000.

For this year, 2021, Tesla will make and sell about 450,000 EVs in North America.

And in 2022 Tesla will probably make and sell about 900,000 EVs in North America.

And by 2023 Tesla should have the capacity to sell 1.2 million EVs in the US. And if Tesla imports a low-cost "Model 2" from China as some are speculating that might even get to 1.5 million.

For comparison, in 2019 (before the pandemic and chip shortages) Honda and Acura combined sold about 1.6 million vehicles in the US.

Tesla is also apparently now looking at sites in India and Indonesia for new factories.

https://www.torquenews.com/11826/tesla-s-installed-production-capacity-reaches-13-million-vehicles-year-based-new-giga-shanghai-milestone

benjaminh

Tesla's Austin site at 2000 acres is the largest one they own. There seems to be room there for an entire second factory that's the size of this first one that's now nearing completion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwYcb0Uv5c8