Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

well, did get out to do some test drives. most of the dealers were dead, considering it was mid afternoon Saturday (though oddly, while test driving a mazda, it went from empty to packed while we were gone!)

There was one advantage to going today. Got to try out a few of the cars on semi-plowed roads. Not something you normally get to do.

anyway, stopped at VW, Ford, Mazda and Hyundai. with a quick pop-in to Honda and Toyota (the automall complex made the popping in easy). There were a couple of also-rans. The CIvic (it happened to be a 2013 on the floor) was not exciting, and neither of us liked the (base cloth) seats. Can't see doing one of them, even though it makes lots of practical sense. Though probably should at least try an EX (is there an EXL?) 1st. At Toyota, sat in a tC. Not bad, but probably not a smart idea for the son (better sticking with a 4 door or hatch)

Looked at buy did not drive a Hyundai Elantra (it was getting late). Turned out to be nicer than I expected. lots of features. Son liked the GT more. So that can stay on the list, and before he buys something we will stop back to drive one.

Did drive a Focus hatch. Not bad, but paled in comparison to other options. And tighter inside. We drove a lightly optioned hatch (a 2012). Did drive OK, but seemed cheaper (well, it actually was cheaper..) Not sure if a leather, etc. model would push more buttons, but again that ups the $$ required. So not keeping that on the short list, but not a "bad" car.

also drove a Jetta (both my son and I had looked at one at dealer previously but did not drive). He did the driving, and liked it a lot. well equipped car, drove nice, peppy engine, good seats. I did not like the manual seat lift, but did not seem to bother him. Other than that, comfortable, quick and very roomy (felt like a midsize car). We both were more impressed than we expected to be, so he is putting it back on the short list.

final drive was the Mazda 3 (a hatch this time). Base i touring. I rode in the back, son drove (his money, he drives!). Short drive, but he still liked it a lot. Probably not quite as quick as the Jetta, but pretty peppy. Nicest interior overall I think, and really well equipped for the money. Plus he really liked the dark blue!

so, unless some unexpected dark horse gets in the race, I think it is down to the Mazda and Jetta (pending a test drive in the Elantra GT). This is assuming he sticks with something new. I think it will be a 3i 4 door, unless he ends up going with a lease and one of the other options becomes too good to pass up.

ab348

@stickguy said:

so, unless some unexpected dark horse gets in the race, I think it is down to the Mazda and Jetta (pending a test drive in the Elantra GT). This is assuming he sticks with something new. I think it will be a 3i 4 door, unless he ends up going with a lease and one of the other options becomes too good to pass up.

Autos.ca just did a head to head between a Civic and Elantra GT, and the Civic won. So if you didn't like the Civic you probably wouldn't like the Elantra. The Jetta with the 1.8T and other improvements for 2014 sounds like a good choice these days.

Sandman6472

Stick, I have sat in all 3 vehicles this past week and though all are great vehicles, I liked the GT the best, hands down. True, I am biased towards Hyundai right now and though we own a Mazda 3s and still love it 8 years later, I'd go with the GT if I were the boy. But, he's the one paying...and driving it so he needs to get the best bang for the buck here. Truthfully, if I hadn't gone for my Tuscon, there would be a new Elantra GT parked out in the garage right now! I think it's that good, really...one hell of a value to. Again though, I am biased right now and if I had to bet, I'm betting the wife will agree in time and she will buy the Accent with the alloys and cruise...she knows this will please me.
Good luck as either vehicles are super to drive and look sharp. And right now, i am still very very happy with my Tuscon even after having driven the Tiguan last week because truth be told, deep down I really really wanted that Tiguan but kept it a secret so no one would influence my decision but actually, I got the best vehicle for me in the Tuscon. besides, to have gotten the Tiguan equipped the way I wanted it, I would have been approaching that $29k price point which is just ludicrous to me.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Found a great gas pricing sites, "Gas Guru" and it really is a great android app, free to. Shows the prices and the lowest one in the area one is looking in...a real time saver. Amazing how one can do so much with these smartphones...especially since I am on the road so much, a lot of these apps are very helpful. Since I don't carry a gps with me, the nav in my smartphone is what I need to depend on. And since I drive with others, usually 10 to 12 others, I can't get to the designated location to late or others might get a bit annoyed. Lots of personalities there!

The Sandman

oldfarmer50

@sandman_6472 said: just rotate us all fairly.

I feel you pain. At my school one the driver failed the drug test and was fired. She got her job back on a technicality and now extra work is given to her instead of rotating through us other drivers. Not only will this cost me current pay but will effect my pension calculations. Not fair stings.

Also called the old company and basically told them they had better rein in my old boss and tell him to stop talking about me or we're going to have an issue here! Explained the situation and the reason why I left and that I believe that his mouth cost me a job and said that ain't right. I never wanted to leave and want to still work there but not under the same conditions. But let her know in no uncertain terms that if he or any of them make any more comments about me, I will take it to the next level. I honestly did nothing wrong except tell the [non-permissible content removed] chase driver I had that he was unfair.
Spoke with another driver and he thought they used me less is because they assumed that since I get a pension and that having just bought a new vehicle that I didn't need the job like the others do. Told him that's bogus since they don't know my bills, I bought the Tuscon after I left & they should've brought this idea up with me if that was indeed an issue...personally, I think it's a crazy idea but I do know some of the others only had this for a job. Sure I get a pension but I earned that by working hard all those years and it should not be held against me! All I asked for was an equal shot at being called into work...just rotate us all fairly and that they could not do...so I moved on to a place where they can be more fair. My need, or lack there of should not come into play. I am there, so obviously I want to work!

The Sandman

oldfarmer50

@breld said:
So I'm doing a lease for the first time. At the dealership now. And already have the 'vert on craigslist.

That's the 335? Which CL I'd love to see the ad.

tommister2

One thing about leasing is the title - if you buy the car (early or at the end) you need to retitle it. Here in Virginia that costs you 4%. I've only done this once. It also cost me doc fees again. If you get enough lease incentives this could still be a better deal than buying it up front. If you aren't going to keep the car long enough to buy it this doesn't matter anyway

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe he should drive a Focus ST, or is that out of the picture? Looks like it will be in the $23K range.

oldfarmer50

@nyccarguy said:
So I guess my BMW was hot last night under it's blanket of snow & decided to open its windows to cool off. Now I know what you are all thinking: "you must have hit the button while the key fob was in your pocket Bradd!" We have a key dish, so there goes that theory. All 4 windows were open 3/4 of the way down and the sunroof was closed. Needless to say I was not happy when I went outside @ 5:55 this AM to start up my car and clean it off. Pic to follow.

A guy at work had the same problem with his BMW in a snow storm. Only his sunroof opened too and he found six inches of snow on his leather. He said it sucked bad in the snow too.

Sandman6472

Yes Old, it ain't fair and it stinks! She should just be rotated back in the rotation with no special treatment as it was her fault she got fired in the first place. Too penalize the rest of the drivers is totally unfair and I for one would complain and get this wrong righted...heck, if ya don't ask, ya don't get! Something I never used to do but now I do...I question unfairness and basically won't tolerate it anywhere.
And in my situation, if the old company needed a body tomorrow, I'd go in and work as for me, it's not going to get personal. A job is a job and I am there for the $, nothing more as I've said before...getting along with my co-workers is just a perk for me and if we remain strangers, that's o k to. Just don't "f" with my paycheck, bottom line here!!!

The Sandman

stickguy

I'll ask the experts her for their opinions (I know y'all aren't shy about sharing). What would you pick for my son? These are the criteria:

1) something slightly "sporty" with decent handling, but nothing hard-core.
2) 4 door or hatch
3) not too big (smaller than the TL)
4) good MPG
5) not too slow (remember, he is used to the TL power)
6) wants a moonroof, and decent amount of techy features
7) nothing overly bland/boring/appliancey (so don't bother with a Corolla LE).
8) needs to be in the low-mid 20s (say 23ish).

So Oracles, what is the short list? are we missing anything?

breld

@oldfarmer50 said:

No - it's the 330ci that I have listed on craigslist. It's on Denver's craigslist - if you do a search for "330ci" it should be easy to find.

For fun, I have been scanning the ads for an E90 convertible with a stickshift - sort of combining the two 3 series into one.

breld

@stickguy said:
I'll ask the experts her for their opinions (I know y'all aren't shy about sharing).

I think you have it narrowed down to the best choices, though it is certainly fun to try everything out there. I agree with the Focus - it may have led the pack in compacts when the current version first came out, but everything else has gotten better. And it does seem real tight on the interior to me too.

I think I mentioned this before, but I like the look of the new Mazda3 sedan. Always preferred the hatch, but something about the new sedan is sharp. Either style would be a great choice, based on everything I've read.

And you know I like the Jetta with that 1.8t. Truthfully, if I didn't need the backseat room, I would've gone with a Jetta over the Passat. It's a nice size, like you pointed out - feels more like a mid-size on the inside, but is fairly nimble on the road.

Did I mention that VW has these good lease deals?

I like the Elantra GT too - came pretty close a couple of times to getting one. I just think the new 3 and Jetta are better.

There's a new Fit coming from Honda soon - but that is a size class below what you're looking at.

Good deals on the outgoing GTI, if your son prefers a hatch but likes the VW. Or wait a few months for the new Golf with the 1.8t.

breld

I've never been to into a red car, but that Imola Red does work on this:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4271610238.html

kyfdx

@breld said:
I've never been to into a red car, but that Imola Red does work on this:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4271610238.html

Take away two doors and two years, and that is my car!

tifighter

At the beginning of Dec, Honda released a software update for the Accord that includes Siri compatibility on top of the infotainment system. While this can be done at the dealer (they quote about 2 hrs), what would be the fun in that? After a few weeks, I finally got around to this project since I have an iphone. I found the instruction pdf online as well as the software needed for my laptop to talk to the Accord over bluetooth. Downloaded the update, connected the laptop to the car via BT, uploaded the update. After 45 minutes, boom, Siri. I can now reply to texts by voice using the talk button the steering wheel, send emails, etc...all the normal Siri stuff. First time I connected my own computer to any car before, but it was pretty straight forward. I guess the future is now.

Michaell

@stickguy said:
So Oracles, what is the short list? are we missing anything?

I'm probably a bit biased here since I own one of the choices, but I'll try to provide an objective opinion.

While I really like my E-GT, if there were lease specials on the '14 Mazda 3 I'd probably have one of those right now.

I also really liked the Jetta with the 1.8T engine but wanted a hatch this time around. Golf with new engine not available until later in 2014.

Kia Forte? Cousin to the E-GT. I think it can be had with the same 2.4 engine as in Sandy's Tuscon, so that may help on the power front.

Focus, as noted, is pretty small inside. Sat in but never test drove a Dart. Still have a little distrust of CVTs so Nissan and Subie were out. Liked the Cruze but again no hatch offered (on this continent). Sonic a bit too small.

I found that Hyundai and Kia have the best tech availability for the price.

Keep us posted - I suspect punch #2 of 2014 is nigh!

roadburner

Well ^#%^! I emailed the Chicago M-B dealer about the red 2013 Abarth and it does have a hole in the roof. Moving on, nothing too see here...

au1994

@breld said:
I've never been to into a red car, but that Imola Red does work on this:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4271610238.html

Imola Red may be one of the best colors BMW has ever done!

stever

@tifighter said:
I guess the future is now.

Pretty fun.

btw, the domain names "brickedsiri.com" and "brickedcar.com" are available. :-)

breld

@kyfdx@Edmunds said:
Take away two doors and two years, and that is my car!

I thought yours was something along those lines!

Does the ZHP add anything in particular that is of maintenance/reliability concerns? Would the 78k miles be scary to you?

If I could find a ZHP of any body style with low miles (like 50-60k) I'd be somewhat tempted. Of course, most owners with something like that know what they have and ask dearly for it.

nyccarguy

@breld

That '04 ZHP is a beautiful car (I love imola red), but $16K seems lie a steep asking price for a 10 year old car that was what, $45K new. Not saying its bad, just interjecting a small voice of reason. On the other hand, if someone is asking $10K for one with 100K mies that has a few dings, maybe it's the right price.

stickguy

@michaell, we already have 2 punches. I would be #3!

nyccarguy

@stickguy

Having never driven anything on your son's short list, going by the reviews and write ups I've read, it sounds like the Jetta with the 1.8t is the car for him. Let us know how the negotiations go. There's a small VW dealer on Long Island that sells a lot of cars (Platinum VW), who was fantastic to work with when I helped a friend buy a 2013 Tiguan last year. I know it's far from you, but just in case you can't make any headway, it might be worth the trip.

nyccarguy

@oldfarmer50

Your friend's BMW that "sucks in the snow" is most likely an older model from the late '80s or early to mid '90s that's RWD and doesn't have snow tires. My car has X-Drive which is a very sophisticated, computer controlled, AWD system. My car drives great in the snow.

nyccarguy

@jpp5862

Well, I actually got my wife to agree that we lease a car for her when my BMW lease is up since she only works 2.5 miles from home. I'll be inheriting the Pilot as my daily driver. So far her criteria are that it be a sedan, automatic, & blue.

stickguy

@nyccarguy said:
stickguy

Having never driven anything on your son's short list, going by the reviews and write ups I've read, it sounds like the Jetta with the 1.8t is the car for him. Let us know how the negotiations go. There's a small VW dealer on Long Island that sells a lot of cars (Platinum VW), who was fantastic to work with when I helped a friend buy a 2013 Tiguan last year. I know it's far from you, but just in case you can't make any headway, it might be worth the trip.

Pretty sure I will draw the line prior to heading to LI! now, if the west nyack dealer had something that makes sense, since it is close to my parents house, so I am around there a lot.

one thing with the VW that gives me pause. He mentioned yesterday that whatever he gets he plans to keep for a long time. Maybe not a VW concept? Now, if he ends up leasing, that would not be an issue.

For me, the VW issue becomes needing to go above the SE trim level, because I really need the full power seat. So that is SEL (or I think GLI!). Now we are up in the 27k+ MSRP range. Son would get an SE connectivity+sunroof model, so sticker just about 24K I think.

the Mazda also has more goodies for the same price. Nav, back up cam, full power seat, and blind spot monitoring. All for MSRP of $24,590 for a 4 door GT model.

oldfarmer50

@nyccarguy said:
oldfarmer50

Your friend's BMW that "sucks in the snow" is most likely an older model from the late '80s or early to mid '90s that's RWD and doesn't have snow tires. My car has X-Drive which is a very sophisticated, computer controlled, AWD system. My car drives great in the snow.

IIRC my coworker's Bimmer was pretty new like a 2008. Probably was RWD. Maybe he had summer tires.

Sandman6472

Have driven many many Foci at work, both '13's and '14's and it's not a vehicle that I would ever buy...crazy auto tranny, weird electronics...just not worth the $ they charge though I do like the hatch a lot for it's versatility. We love the Mazda 3, I mean with over 127k on it already, we must really like it! And it is holding up well so far.
Have driven a few new Forte's at work but they were probably the 2.0 engined one's but still, a nice vehicle really and not a bad choice in this segment though I prefer the interior of the Elantra. Hyundai/Kia make fine vehicles and so far, I am very pleased with ours and wouldn't be surprised if the wife gets one next time.
Got my title yesterday so I officially own the Tuscon in the eyes of the state of Florida! With just under 1800 on the clock, all is good with no complaints. Hoping the mpg's will come up a bit once I get past that magic 5k mark but since I don't really drive that much, not going to sweat it here. And now that I plan to stay at my kids a few nights a week, the miles driven/day will go down by 2/3 at least. Once she moves in June, then we'll rethink this option.

The Sandman

corvette

@stickguy said:
michaell, we already have 2 punches. I would be #3!

I have graphicguy's TL down as a 2013 purchase. Am I wrong on that?

kyfdx

@breld said:

_Does the ZHP add anything in particular that is of maintenance/reliability concerns? Would the 78k miles be scary to you?

If I could find a ZHP of any body style with low miles (like 50-60k) I'd be somewhat tempted. Of course, most owners with something like that know what they have and ask dearly for it._

Well.. 18" tires are pricy. Other than that, just the typical maintenance/repair that you have on any E46. Which is to say... the prices aren't that bad, if you find a good independent repair shop, but it's not a Honda Accord. It doesn't scare me... and I've got 80K miles on mine (bought it with 40K).

I am rolling into the "repair/maintain/replace" zone, though...

2013:

New Koni struts/shocks
New Michelin Pilot Super Sports (staggered 18")
Custom alignment
Control arm bushings (all of that.. about $2700)
OEM BMW short-shift kit ($300)

New thermostat/housing plus rear brakes/rotors ($700)
Two oil changes ($180)

That's a big year, but not too bad considering the new tires/suspension.

But, it's going in tomorrow for CCV replacement (including associated hoses, etc) that will be around $500, and the alternator has been acting hinky, so if I do that, another $500-$600 for an aftermarket Bosch replacement. All of the above prices include labor.

It's worth every penny. ;-)

qbrozen

@breld said:
So, I'm really focusing on the buyout of the lease, since I think that's the easiest way to compare it to a purchase. One thing I noticed, different than what's been discussed here previously, is that you're not locked into paying the entire rent charge (interest essentially) if you sell/payoff early. That amount simply amortizes over the term of the lease, just like a car loan.

I don't think that's true, unless it varies by state. Anytime I've been in a lease and call for a payoff, it is the residual plus tax plus all remaining payments (full payments). So, for example, if I were to call today for the Leaf, they'd tell me its my $20k residual (I don't remember exact number) + $250/mo for 12 mos = $23k.

breld

Q - you're explanation is more consistent with what I was told, but the lease agreement seemed pretty clear on mine. But I could be reading it wrong - I'll figure it out when I start getting statements, just for curiosity sake.

breld

@nyccarguy said:
breld

That '04 ZHP is a beautiful car (I love imola red), but $16K seems lie a steep asking price for a 10 year old car that was what, $45K new. Not saying its bad, just interjecting a small voice of reason.

Yeah, I don't disagree. But as the ZHPs get more and more scarce, seems like they're bringing strong money. I've seen 330i's with just the "normal" sport package for much more reasonable prices. Probably a better buy.

breld

@nyccarguy said:
jpp5862

Well, I actually got my wife to agree that we lease a car for her when my BMW lease is up since she only works 2.5 miles from home. I'll be inheriting the Pilot as my daily driver. So far her criteria are that it be a sedan, automatic, & blue.

So, is that a bit less exciting a prospect for you then? Or you'll still enjoy the shopping experience even though it won't be yours?

breld

@kyfdx@Edmunds said:
It's worth every penny. ;-)

Yeah, not cheap, but doesn't seem like anything specific to the ZHP. Good to know. I thought the ZHP came with a short shifter - did you replace the stock with a new one?

Speaking of tire costs, we scored a great deal on craigslist today. Wife's wagon rides on some 16" wheels and snow tires for the winter. They are okay, but are quite a contrast to the 18" m-sport wheels she has on the rest of the year. I've had some 17" BMW sport wheels sitting in the garage in case I ever wanted to put snows on my 335. So we got 4 Blizzak RFTs with just a few thousand miles on them for $400 and will mount those on the 17s and put them on her wagon. We can probably sell her old set and at least break even.

roadburner

@nyccarguy said:
oldfarmer50

Your friend's BMW that "sucks in the snow" is most likely an older model from the late '80s or early to mid '90s that's RWD and doesn't have snow tires. My car has X-Drive which is a very sophisticated, computer controlled, AWD system. My car drives great in the snow.

A modern RWD BMW with winter tires also performs great in the snow. A RWD Bimmer with all-season or summer tires with a bone-headed driver WILL suck in the snow...

kyfdx

@breld said:

Yes... the ZHP comes with a short-shift kit, but like everything else, there is a better one... Comes with a neat brushed aluminum/alcantara knob, too... It's about 20% shorter throw, with what feels like only 5% more effort.. I also removed the CDV at the same time, which did wonders for the clutch action..

I wish I could run across some nice used winter tires... Mine are past the point of being really good in the snow, but I can't seem to pull the trigger for $850 for a new set..

breld

Okay, speaking of holding their value well. Here's a 'vert I wouldn't mind replacing both my BMWs for. Only 25k miles, but $30k? And this is a one price shop. Price aside, what kind of maintenance and repairs do you need to prepare for on these?

http://www.schompbmw.com/used/BMW/2006-BMW-3+Series-e08706640a0a00640f78fe77030e819e.htm

jayrider

@breld said:
Okay, speaking of holding their value well. Here's a 'vert I wouldn't mind replacing both my BMWs for. Only 25k miles, but $30k? And this is a one price shop. Price aside, what kind of maintenance and repairs do you need to prepare for on these?

http://www.schompbmw.com/used/BMW/2006-BMW-3+Series-e08706640a0a00640f78fe77030e819e.htm

Black inerior on a vert would be a no go in St. Louis. Nice car for sure.

corvette

@kyfdx@Edmunds said:
I wish I could run across some nice used winter tires... Mine are past the point of being really good in the snow, but I can't seem to pull the trigger for $850 for a new set..

If you want to get all of the possible mileage out of them, you could run them through next spring/summer/fall and plan to replace them before the first snow next winter.

abacomike

SPEAKING OF TIRES...

When I was driving the E350's, they were fitted with 18" staggered sized tires and were rated all-season radials - V rated from my recollection. On my CLS550, the tires are 19" staggered sized "summer tires" and are Y rated.

I have tried to figure out the differences between all-season and summer tires as well as V rated compared to Y rated.

Any help would be appreciated.

corvette

@abacomike said:
I have tried to figure out the differences between all-season and summer tires as well as V rated compared to Y rated.

All season tires are designed to offer some snow traction as well as perform acceptably in freezing temperatures. Summer tires are designed for dry and rain performance above freezing temperatures. A summer tire will not perform as well below 32 degrees, even on dry pavement, and in snow or ice, a summer tire can be dangerous.

V-rated tires are designed for sustained speeds up to 149 MPH, a Y rating means they are designed for sustained speeds up to 186 MPH (assuming the tire is at the proper inflation pressure and hasn't been damaged).

stever

Don't forget "all weather" tires (some Nokians for example). They work good on snow for my AWD Subaru, not so great on my FWD minivan. Good in the rain for the van though.

tifighter

@Stever@Edmunds said:
Don't forget "all weather" tires (some Nokians for example). They work good on snow for my AWD Subaru, not so great on my FWD minivan. Good in the rain for the van though.

I recently got a set of these (Nokian WRG2) on the RDX, and they are great wet weather tires. No summer mileage yet so wear is still a question, but we have pretty mild summers in the PNW.

abacomike

@corvette
@stever

Thanks, guys. Then it would seem that the tires on my CLS550 are perfect for Florida weather!

Tomorrow night we are supposed to drop into the mid 40's (brrrr) so we'll see how they perform in cold environs.

stever

@tifighter, those WRG2s are what I got for the Outback winter before last. Liked them a lot so I got a set last spring for the Quest. I wind up going too fast for conditions in the Outback now since they work so well. They didn't do miracles for the van in the snow though so it stays mostly parked this time of year except for running errands around town.

tifighter

@Stever - Yeah, I only have one snow day with them and they seemed very good. I'm hoping these combined with the SH-AWD make a good ski machine. Not that we've had a ski season. One thing is certain; they sure aren't cheap.

stickguy

you can look up the corresponding #s, but basically the V, Y (or S, T, etc.) are the speed rating that the tire is safe for. But unless you plan to run over something like 149 MPH, not likely to need the extra letter!

summer vs. AS is just in the tread compound. the AS has a composite that stays flexible (in effect) at lower temps, and some differences in the tread pattern to handle snow better. Summers will normally handle better, and down where you are, won't be a problem.

I once had a Dodge Colt (of all things) that came with summer compound (basically a showroom stock racing tire) tires. Very little tread (the outer 1/3 looked like a golf ball). On any snow (even a dusting) it was dangerous. Like driving on 4 toboggans.

abacomike

@stickguy:....
summer vs. AS is just in the tread compound.

When I first got the car, I noticed a tremendous difference in the tread design. Both the E350 and the new CLS550 have Continentals. But the tread on the CLS550 is smoother with a one strip center tread - perhaps for stability in rain. The rubber also seems to wear more quickly as well.

Yes, I would expect these tires to wear more quickly, especially with the hot asphalted roads down here in summer. I guess I will be a little more careful when it gets cold here tomorrow night and Tuesday since it was mentioned that these summer tires do not handle as well in colder temps.

Thanks again for the info.