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Infiniti M35 / M45 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • ckelly14ckelly14 Posts: 105
    Brianfox:

    First, I have to say that compared to many people, you are thinking a few steps ahead, and I applaud you for it. You are at least thinking about what you would do with the money if you didn't pay for the car up front, or the "opportunity cost" of paying for the car up front vs. investing the money. However, I think your calculations are incorrect.

    Perhaps I am not fully understanding what you are saying. You said "It's worth $400 to be able to hang onto that $56K for a couple of years". Are you saying that the lease only cost you $400 over the term of the lease compared to paying cash up front? This would be impossible. If your capitalized cost (negotiated price + TTL) is about 56K and the residual is about 42K, then you rent charge would be 98,000 X money factor (for simplicity .002) would be $196per month. This would amount to $4704 over 24 months. Perhaps you forgot about the trade-in? Or are you accounting for inflation or some other financial nuance that you haven't mentioned?

    I don't want to get on a soap box here, but if you go into a lease not understanding it (at least the very basics) you will most likely be ripped off. I'm not talking about you, brianfox, as I may not have understood you correctly. I'm talking about people who come on and say " My lease is $540 a month, is this a good price?" I think the worst thing you can do is spend hours at Edmunds, researching the right car at the right price, and then turned around and be boned by the lease. Walk into a dealership, demand a certain lease payment, and he will likely deliver it to you! Take five minutes and read an article about leasing. Next negotiate the best price on the car without ever mentioning you are going to lease it. Then, and only then, ask about SPECIFIC LEASE TERMS. Ask what the residual is. Do you think you can sell the car or trade it in at that price at the end? Most likely you wouldn't be able to, especially if you usually trade-in. Second, ask about the money factor, multiply it by 2400, and compare it to the current interest rate. If it is 2%, and the current new car loan rate is 5.8 %, you may be better off leasing. Brianfox- if you are planning on buying at the end of your lease, do you know in some states you may be changed sales tax again? I'm not sure about your state.

    Phew! Sorry about being so long-winded but lack of understanding about leases is a pet-peeve.
  • brianfoxbrianfox Posts: 25
    ckelley,

    As you can see, my original post was deleted by site administrators because I mentioned names. Unfortunately, my followup was also deleted (it would have appeared just before your post).

    Here's the summary that was deleted:

    I negotiated a purchase price of about $800 over invoice for a black/black M45, Journey/Tech, Chome Wheels, Aero Kit. This came to $52K and change. The out the door price after T&L would have been $56.8K.

    I was all set up to pay cash, then got 'wise' to the notion of a lease - mostly at the sweet talking of the finance guy. I had signed the lease with the understanding that if my intention was to purchase the car at the end of the lease anyway, the total out of pocket costs would be about the same (give or take $500). That sounded like a great deal to me - keep the money I would have used for purchase in the bank, and buy it at the end of the lease.

    Unfortunately, my 8K trade in was almost exactly the (I forget the exact term) "park cost"? It's the finance charges they knock you with during the lease period. Granted, the money factor was well under 2. A couple of hours after driving the car off the lot, I realized I would be paying 12K in lease payments, plus 41.5K in residual + 3K in taxes on the residual = 56.5K. Same price as buying, right? Well, not if you figure in that they also got my trade in for 8K. This makes the lease/purchase path actually cost about 65K.

    I turned around and returned to the dealer looking for a fight. They were very apologetic, scrutinized the papers and actually looked surprised that the lease was not as good a deal. With ansolutely no argument from them, they drew up a purchase agreement and voided the lease.

    I admit - I was a total greenhorn about leasing. Never - NEVER walk into a dealership and change your course of action. If you are setting out to buy - then buy.

    Because I went back just three hours later, I don't think they could have stuck to their guns. I had made it abundantly clear every step of the way that I was signing the lease with the understanding that it would basically be equivalent to purchase. Clearly it was not.

    Now, I must point out that had I planned on financing a purchase, the lease option would have possibly been a consideration. Had I financed at 6% for 60 months, the finance charges would be about 8K.

    So, leasing then purchasing with cash would roughtly have been equivalent to financing. However, financing the residual would easily push the deal in favor of financing the whole purchase.

    In my case, nothing beat cash.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 123
    "In my case, nothing beat cash."

    Unless the money could have gone to an investment or combination of investments that was earning 6%+/year . Or maybe you could have taken out a home equity loan for $56K with a lower APR and only had to average 4%+ year on your $56K invested given the tax implications. And if the lease is partly or in full for business reasons, etc... My point is pure cash is sometimes or even often more expensive than other options.

    Bottom line is, everyone should understand and look at every angle involved. Interest rates, opportunity cost of investment, time factor of money, tax implications, alternate financing schemes, inflation, the list goes on. In my situation, leasing gave me the highest possible ROI.
  • Just signed on for a lease on
    Infiniti M35 (base) + Journey + Tech + Mats + Splash Guard
    MSRP 47800
    Capitalized Cost: 44800
    MF: 0.0204
    36 months / 12,000 (63% residual)
    Down: $550 Bank fee, $200 registration / tags + 1st payment
    Payment: $551 before tax ($585 including NJ tax).

    any thoughts?
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Posts: 105
    Exactly the car I want so thanks for posting. I calculated about $850 over invoice: an excellent deal! Residual/MF seemed to also be in line. Great work. Enjoy your car! I told my wife I'd wait until November to buy.....grumble,grumble :( ">
  • bidyutbidyut Posts: 18
    Just picked up my M35 with tech + journey + splash guard + trunk mat for 44912$ + tax license fee. No haggle or no hassle. Infiniti of Pleasanton. Best and nicest people I have dealt with. I traded in my eclipse 1998 for $4500. Also added 48mo/60k maintanance service for 1120$. Now i am smiling..:)
  • homantaghomantag Posts: 21
    To get the M35x to the same level as the Acura RL, you pretty much need to add the jourey package and tech package.

    I just got the M35 because my wife liked the interior better, and the back seat had more room for a baby's car seat.

    I got the following lease terms:

    24 months, 15k miles p/yr
    MSRP = $49,670 (with Aero Package)
    $650 per month (including tax)
    $1500 Drive Off (not the same as a "down" where you pay extra for tax, license, etc.).
    (I believe the capital cost was $47,218).

    Comments on whether good or bad for So. CA?
  • homantaghomantag Posts: 21
    I got the following lease terms:

    24 months, 15k miles p/yr
    MSRP = $49,670 (with Aero Package)
    $650 per month (including tax)
    $1500 Drive Off (not the same as a "down" where you pay extra for tax, license, etc.).
    (I believe the capital cost was $47,218).

    Comments on whether good or bad for So. CA?
  • ptkimptkim Posts: 14
    I'm assuming you got the M35 non-sport with Journey+ tech + aero + trunk mat? This comes out to MSRP of $49670. The invoice of this car should have been $45121. So your cap cost was $2097 over invoice.

    Looks like the dealer is giving you the Infinit Financing corp base rate (they're not making money on lease), but appears that they did charge more than usual on price over invoice, especially in So. Cal where Infiniti dealers are abundant.

    In So. Cal, I think you can expect to pay $850 ~ $1500 over invoice, on the M35. I believe there's also more room to negotiate on the M35's than the M45s. I you had paid about $1000 over invoice, I think it could have saved you about 20-30 dollars on your monthly payment.

    I personally think the deal was...ok. Not terribly bad (like paying MSRP), and not great either in So. Cal. But who cares, as long as you are satisfied with the car and the dealer was professional. enjoy your car!
  • drhippodrhippo Posts: 8
    california seems to have better deals! I've leased for years, and (in Nevada) just got a 35x with journey/tech, tint, full spare, splash guard--3000 out of pocket, 641/month plus tax, 39 months, 12k/year. This was down considerably from what they started out at.

    Any comments?
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Just picked up my M35 with tech + journey + splash guard + trunk mat for 44912$ ... No haggle or no hassle.

    Congrats on a great price - at $800 over Invoice; I wouldn't need to haggle either :surprise: Are you being serious on the, "No haggle or no hassle."? was this the starting price? :confuse:

    I'm a little surprised to hear such a great price with no haggle/hassle.
  • bidyutbidyut Posts: 18
    I am serious. Actually the internet sales guy from the dealership gave me the price long ago. That time I asked for the car with diamond graphite interior. He said that he needed to order that and it would take 90 days. So I settled for liquid platinum. That also he didn't have, but he located it somewhere and go it shipped. He didn't charge that on me. He stuck to his price inspite of all that.

    Even on the trade-in, over the phone he told me it would be 4500$ without looking at the car. According to KBB, my car price should be $4050. After inspecting the car, still I got $4500.

    Apart from that, I got $750 worth coupons to use against service and parts, free sirius activation and 3 months free service. I have yet to do the activation.
  • Hello,

    Thanks for everyone's help as I help my buddy buy his M. What kind of money factors are you finding out there? He's been quoted 2.13 (.00213 I assume) and I'm curious if anyone knows what the "base" rate might be for this vehicle. Thanks!
  • Hey Everyone,

    Since I posted the above, I found LeaseCompare.com, which provides a sampling of money factors for several lease financing providers. I found this useful in making sure the M35 lease I'm analyzing has reasonable MF numbers.
  • salc1salc1 Posts: 12
    Just started looking at an M35x (crimson or Twilight blue) w/ Journey and Nav. Local dealer (Harte Infiniti, West Haven , CT) has given me a quote using the Costco Auto Purchasing Program which takes 5% off the MSRP.

    With a sticker price of $48,500 that would bring me down to $46,075. It appears that there may be some better pricing out there for this vehicle. I'm not in a rush to purchase (would hope to have vehicle by Nov.).

    Would appreciate any feedback on dealer experiences and pricing in the Metro area. It would some NJ dealers are quite aggressive on price.

    I'm leaning towards purchasing rather than leasing for the fact that i drive 18,000+ miles per year.

    as far as purchase I'd be looking for a longer term deal as I what to keep costs in check as much as possible.

    Comments and feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Any comments
  • steve777steve777 Posts: 41
    I got my M35x (base model) from Ramsey (NJ) Infiniti using my VPP code. They blew away the competition.

    Paying under $550 a month for 15k miles w/1777 in upfront fees. Ask for Kendra. Tell her Steve form Sony sent you.
  • davidc1davidc1 Posts: 168
    Can you elaborate? I am not sure how $550/mo for a base model is blowing away the competition.
  • ktb7ktb7 Posts: 4
    Hello all, I have never leased a car before and was unfortunately rushed into making a deal. I think I made a fair deal but would appreciate any insight as I have yet to take delivery. The details are as follow:

    M35X with Journey Package and Sirius
    39 months with 17,000 miles/year
    $640/month with taxes, registration, and tags up front
    Capitalized Cost: $46,226.84
    Residual Value: $27,038.70

    Thanks for any help.
  • salc1salc1 Posts: 12
    thanks for the info Steve. I'll definitely check out Ramsey. Can you elaborate on what the VPP code is.
  • Annoyed in Ft. Lauderdale...I too went into the Coconut Creek dealership with an M45. The salesman was thorough and did an excellent job of selling the car and the dealership. However, the Desk is a mess in this dealership and backed off an offer that the salesman proposed last night when I arrived today to complete the purchase. They claimed that the prior manager made a mistake with the tax-in part of the deal and took their numbers up by the tax amount or $47 per month! The salesman indicated last night that we had an offer on an M45 Sport with Tech & Journey at $ 725 tax in 39/12k + TTL or, a $1300 deal.

    :( When the "Desk" pulls garbage like this, they can't be trusted to complete an honorable deal. The salesman was disappointed as was I. Watch out in this dealership as they tend to "pull the rug out from under the sales rep's at the time of closing. Finally, I too find that the S. FL Infiniti dealerships have a sense of smugness about the ability to crush every sale of this HOT car. However, HOT lasts only for the first few payments until the next great car shows up.

    Let me know if you ever completed your purchase and are happy with the M45.
  • Where and, when do you expect to take delivery?
  • The salesman at Marin Infiniti called to wish my wife a happy birthday. This is the first time we've ever received an after-the-sale call from a dealer that wasn't trying to sell something.
  • I got an e-mail yesterday from a dealer I had made a previous inquiry a while saying they were short on August sales and any M45 in stock was priced at $900 over invoice. One day price only of course :P
  • ajamoajamo Posts: 18
    I've been negotiating cap cost on an M45 Sport lease all week. Two of the initial quotes were at MSRP, one was 1K off list and another was 2K off, all done via e-mail.

    The car, equipped exactly as I wanted, didn't exist within a 150 mile radius. The dealer that was 2K off told me he had a car en route that was identical to my spec except it had splash guards, trunk mat, and full spare. Of course that worked for me and I countered with $700 over invoice. He claimed he couldn't get under $1400 over for a car they had on order.

    I searched existing inventory in PA, NJ, DE, and MD and came up with two cars that were identical, except stone leather vs. graphite (my first choice). Anyway, I called this dealer back and told him where the cars were that I'd accept and that I'd give him $1K over invoice. He counters with $1700 over, citing a $225 cost to transfer a car. Wow.

    Wound up calling a dealer that made a crappy initial offer and told him of my trouble getting a deal done. I told him about the cars, where they were, and offered 1K over for either car that I located. He agreed and I pick the bad boy up tomorrow. Total conversation time: 90 seconds.

    I wound up paying cash for a spoiler, but will pay a shade over $700/mo for 12K/39 mos. with only $1235 due at signing (which includes the spoiler).

    I'm putting a pot of coffee on so I can stay up all night and stare at the M literature I have in my home office.

    14 hours to go...
  • It's encouraging to hear that someone can get a fair lease deal on this vehicle. I made several offers of $1300 over sticker here in S. FL and was allowed to leave with my money and no car. If you have the exact details such as residual percentage, money factor, and other fees (dealer fees), please clarify. For a $1000 dollar savings, I would pick the car up somewhere outside of the state.
  • We just picked up our M 35x serg. sand with journey and tech package, spoiler. I want to thank everybody in this forum for all the information shared. The car stickered at $ 51900. I purchased it for $ 48603. They also paid $ 12500 for the Mercedes ML 320 2000 for our trade in. I did the entire thing on the internet. I live in Cincinnati and got quotes from Dayton, Columbus, Lexington, Indianapolis and Cincinnati. I ended buying from Infiniti of Columbus. Nobody came close to there offer ( Lexington said they would match it but did not have any cars in stock) The
    Cincinnati dealer was the worse saying that they did not have any cars and were not very willing to negotiate and only offered $ 11000 for the trade in. We also considered the Lexus GS 300 but liked the M much better.

    We had a very good experience with Infiniti of Columbus- great guys. Looks like the demand for these cars in the Mid West is quiet high and most dealers said they would only offer 1000 of sticker.

    Param. :)
  • Steve,

    How far off from invoice was the VPP cost? Also, any idea what the money factor was?

    Thanks,
    Greg from Philly
  • ajamoajamo Posts: 18
    Rickwell,

    No problem. The residual for my M45 was 61%, MF was .00209 which equates to 5.016, dealer fees were $550. All standard for top tier credit for 39 mo/12K lease I believe.

    I am in the Philadelphia Metro area though, got the car at Winner Infiniti in Newark, DE ~ might be a bit too far from South Florida!!??
  • Rickwell...I did wind up purchasing the M35 about 3 weeks ago. Just one day after the Coconut Creek incident. I did the deal over the phone however, I'm currently not too happy with the dealership. I literally drove my new car home from the dealership and garaged it for a week. No stops in between. A week later I took it to have the windows tinted and 3M xpel installed where the guy who owns the shop went over the car meticulously. He discovered that my passenger side front rim was scraped before he took the car into the stall and showed it to me. I immediately called my salesman (who, by the way, was somewhat of a jerk during delivery) and told him my situation. He accused me of scraping the wheel and would not do anything for me. I then fired off a letter to the general manager of the dealership and to Infiniti in CA. It's been almost two weeks (I've already got the return receipts) and no contact except for a voicemail from the salesman who I now refuse to deal with. If you want to deal with this dealership let me know, but at this point I'm NOT recommending them unless they make good with a new wheel.

    I've been a long-time Lexus owner, and I would bet the ranch things would be entirely different had this been Lexus. Total cheeseballs=Infiniti :confuse:
  • Did you inspect the car before leaving the dealership? While the dealership should complete an inspection of its own before releasing the car, the new owner of the car has the obligation to examine the vehicle before taking it off the lot and noting any problems at that time.

    Even if you have garaged the car, I think it's expecting quite a bit from the dealership to repair the rim 3 weeks after you've taken delivery. I've worked with Lexus too and while they ARE very customer service oriented, they don't give away the shop. I seriously doubt you would have received a free replacement from them either.

    The one thing I would recommend is finding a good rim repair shop in your city. I had been led to believe that the new alloys were difficult to repair when scraped or cracked but have found this to be false. I had some road rash repaired on my G35 Coupe and for $70 I had a rim that looked like new. It's a lot cheaper than a new rim, especially if you have the 19 in twin spokes.
This discussion has been closed.