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I don't know... just wondering... I think the OEM tires on a Camry LE might be pretty crappy, already..
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That's where I live, Kellogg, ID. Oh, yes. Sweeping, winding curves and 4th of July Pass going from Coeur d' Alene east to Cataldo, Kingston, Pinehurst, Smelterville, Kellogg, Osburn, Silverton, Wallace and finally Mullan, before one finally is up Lookout Pass and eventually heading down the hill into western Montana. We have ice and snow about 6 solid months out of the year with sometime brutal driving but a lot of time just common-sensed slowing down will do the trick to stay safe.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Snow continued to fall...we headed up Fourth of July Pass. Whoa. Everything came to a stop...where are the snowplows? I'll tell you where they are, they're on the other side of I-90, heading west towards Coeur d' Alene! Trucks heading west were just sitting there half in the road and half off, and us, heading east? Going about 20-25 mph being careful not to make any fast steering wheel movements! Yikes, it took about an hour and a half to go 36 miles, at least. I was so tired when we got back to Kellogg that all I could do was collapse on the bed, falling fast asleep.
Idaho's panhandle can be a much-adventured thing.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
We decided it would be best to shorten our vacation, pack up, and head for home. Driving a Ford country squire SW, automatic, at that time and looking back I'm sure that drive home over Rodgers pass with 6" of snow would have been a lot less nerve-racking with a stick shift.
(Currently I'm in my 0xThirties.)
WW and other experts, please consider this assertion:
Manual transmission cars stop quicker than the all-else-equal automatic transmission cars because they WEIGH LESS.
so LESS BRAKING DISTANCE from 70 mph to 0 mph for an manual transmission car. theoretically.
Same holds true for 4WD vs 2WD/1WD. AWD & 4WD increase stopping distance & energy that the brakes have to dissipate.
I await correction by our esteemed WW on the math for the above things, and I defer to his additional authority on the physics of spongepants squarebob's underwater wonderland, where I understand all the vehicles have automatic transmissions.
Perhaps most drivers will never experience a spin and are lucky for it.
I've handled one at 70 mph in interstate traffic due to road obstacle, and safely stopped 4 lanes of 70 highway behind me after fishtailing and then doing a 180 at about 60 mph. 4 lanes slowed and stopped safely for that one, zero collisions.
No spin on yesterday's commute, but surely some drivers behind me collided with metal chunks or other car... Yesterday I safely stopped my car and 4 lanes of 70 mph traffic behind me: a big ladder and construction-toolboxes fell off F250 driven by maniac, like the tailgate fell open maybe. I had to emergency-stop in the left lane from 65 mph, all 4 lanes doing 70 mph behind me. I could have stopped quicker but but eased onto the brakes as *early* and slowly as i could, using every inch of the available distance to slowly stop. all 4 lanes came to a stop on the highway until the metallic debris/chunks all stopped bouncing/flying, and then everyone started driving around it in breakdown lane and between lanes.
it was frightening, but not as frightening the memorable 180 @ 70 mph 30 years ago.
WW may have a better analysis on what I should have done in any given situation: maybe chose to drive over the debris? (low car, big chunks of metal debris, bouncing all over the road directly ahead during sweeping left packed-traffic 70 mph turn, too fast to quickly cut into the left-breakdown lane without risking another been-there-done-that 180. debris bouncing in breakdown lane too. So 4 lanes of highway stopped due to my decision (and nearby-lane drivers somewhat-slower decision) to *stop* rather than drive over it all at ~65 mph. some people did not have enough space/brakes/reflexes to stop and they drove over it, then immediately pulling over with broken cars & flat tires. I reported all the details to the state police including those of the zigzagging/tailgating/aggressive F250 diesel driver who was in the middle of it and probably caused it.
ps - the above 2 emergency situations both occurred with high performance manual transmission cars, making it luckier for me and the drivers behind me. gotta be especially careful not to brake too fast for the tailgating driver occupying one's entire rearview mirror when one has a car with especially above-average performance.
The same newtonian physics that shows the rear-brake spinout danger tends to cause SUVs to roll over -> in that case angular momentum points sideways instead of straigt up, as in a conventional spin. interested readers can google "angular-momentum right-hand-rule", probably there is good wiki stuff on it.
Would you like to drive a Benz where it hits the brakes all by itself when someone stops in front and we may be too busy looking at the incredible seatcovers on the car driving in the adjacent lane? I'd consider it, especially if the Benz is a diesel! I wonder if the Benz electronic brain looks/considers also the cars behind to see if there are cars close that will rear-end-crash unless they-too have automatic braking! ?
The electronic brain may well be faster to hit the brakes than the human reaction time of 0.4 to 0.6 seconds. I haven't really looked into it in enough curious detail since Benz is not really in my price-range currently! Maybe the folks over in luxo-car-forum have some experience/info about it...
The only time I worry, consider, the following vehicle's distance and speed is just as a traffic light turns amber. In an emergency stop, a TRUE emergency stop....my sole object is to STOP.....DAMN that ABS.
New chapter in Newtonian physics that I haven't read..??
Read braking, rear ONLY braking, has the same effect on keeping the vehicle "in line" as does the force of gravity in keeping a pendulum's weight at the bottom, downward.
Not I..!
Now if I have a CHOICE on how to stop, how fast, or even whether to stop at all (traffic light just turned amber), yes, I'll look behind to check.
Please tell me we're not going to go through this again... :mad:
Edit: Volvo is the one I'm thinking of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9_ePZWxWGw
Whoops! Though there may have been others.
I mean, back up cameras on a Mini Cooper? Gimme a break.
I suspect that my desire for the manual transmission is secretly about my battle to regain control of my car from the Nanny Police.
Dunno if you've seen my setup, but I installed a backup cam on my minivan (high rear glass means you see nothing less than 4' tall), and it really comes in handy. Magellan has 7" portable GPSs, and they just came out with a backup cam that plugs right in to those. Simple kit, no splicing.
But if I were young again and had a family and a minivan, I'd probably order one with a stickshift!
Could I even GET one anymore with a manual transmission? I'll have to look that up.
I tried and tried, but it just wasn't big enough. We wanted an 8 seater, and the Mazda5 only seats 6, even then only if they don't bring any luggage.
You can manually move the gated shifter to 1-2-3-D4-D but I don't bother.
I've found manual controls are slow to respond, and by then the auto gives you the gear you wanted anyway, at least most of the time.
With the gated shifter, it would take a unique level of stupidity to perform that same feat, as it would require the absolute intention of doing it. Actually, the car might even refuse to let you do it now, I'm not sure, because I haven't driven an automatic in the years since gates became commonplace.
I would think so too, but it did make a nasty clunking sound and the engine did die immediately, which, if in neutral, the engine would keep running.
A friend and I accidently did the same thing in a 1980 Chevette we were screwing around in. I was manually shifting the automatic and slammed it too far one time. Punched in reverse going around a sharp bend at about 40mph. The tranny very quickly and violently engaged reverse, spinning the tires backwards and stalling the engine. Same as the other story, the car was fine afterwards.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was pretty embarrassed about it, but when you're used to manual transmissions, automatics can feel rather awkward from time to time. At least I had quit stomping the floor to the left of the brake pedal by that time! :P
FWIW, now refuses to drive anyting with an automatic. I guess I "learned'em good". :P
To answer your question, the typical damage metted out to the drive train by a student is to the clutch assembly, and while somewhat expensive to replace (figure a thousand dollars, plus or minus), it still wouldn't equal the price of having bought the car with an automatic in the first place.
Oh, I guess they could also over-rev the engine by downshifting into too low a gear at high speed---that would defeat the rev limiter. Exactly what such an over-rev would do to an engine is unclear---maybe nothing---hard to predict.
Do you think/find most students of manuals overuse the clutch (ride the clutch too much), or does most of the "excessive" damage/wear and tear come from them dropping the clutch too fast and hard?
Yeah, I don't really get that. That is one of the biggest factors in the Fiesta leading the pack for me in terms of a replacement car right now. I can option that car any way I want with either transmission type. Of course, one size bigger (Focus), and the same issue as with the Hyundai (and every other car out there) rears its ugly head: You want a stick? Here's a base model for you.... :sick:
Subaru had the Forester Premium, which he bought, but even then not the Limited, and not the turbo, either.
You can't get a Kia Rio upper level model with a stick either, though Hyundai offers the Accent that way. Strange, especially since Kia wants to position itself as sportier than its sibling brand.
I will say, the Mazda5 makes incredible use of the room it has! I was impressed by that aspect, including the miniature captain's chairs in the second row. The seats were quite comfy - soft, but supportive. The cockpit was well laid out and comfortable, even though there are some protruding switches (like the volume control and speed control on the cruise) that I can see being annoying. Talk about plastic, though. Wow; that rig had it in droves! Finally, the styling details along the exterior sides of the vehicle were a nice touch.
The major downside? The manual is only available on the base (sport) trim, although it does come well-equipped at that level compared to other base trims, and you can add a few features. You don't have the option of xenon HID lights, heated mirrors or seats, or a moonroof, though.
On the Mazda2, it was impressive in terms of passenger (and driver) space. I did the ol' "sit behind yourself" test, and the rear seats have ample leg room - it is very comfortable in that respect. The red pinstriping on the seats were a nice touch, and the cockpit was very similar to the 5. Also, the manual is available with no trim or option restrictions, even though that list is fairly short for the 2.
The major detractor in this car was the rear head room. I don't imagine that anyone over 5'6" could sit back there without stooping forward. I could sit erect if I compressed myself probably 4", and that was with my head tight against the ceiling. Just based on that, I doubt I would buy this car. :sick:
All in all, though, it was fun and a worthwhile visit. My daughter (four in a couple weeks), had a great time! She kept wanting me to let her rummage through the CX-7 and CX-9 that were on the showroom floor. I told her that I wasn't interested in those cars, so we were not going to open them up & get them dirty. Her response? "But Dad, I'm interested in them!" :P
Did they have the SkyActiv-powered 2 yet? I'd wait for that, if you were interested.
I test drove a 5, looked at it many times. Do they have a driver's arm rest yet? Early ones did not, not even a center console. I also wanted a 7 seater model, don't think they addressed that.
Mazda deleted the Navi option on the 5 entirely. Very odd to go backwards in car tech like that. Not sure why.
Because people like you are always harping on how factory navs are a waste of money and a $90 Garmin is better.
It wasn't that long ago car phones were about the size of two bricks AND permanently installed in a car.
Either way, the Mazda3 is another car with no option restrictions regardless of the transmission. :shades: