The Future Of The Manual Transmission

ateixeira

I guess it's a double-H pattern. Maybe they can't call it that because the wrestler owns that trademark.

Won't the 911's trans arrive first?

andys120

I don't think a 7-speed manual makes any sense, it would force you to be shifting all the time and you'd have trouble remembering what gear you were in. It might work on a sequential shifter if there was a display reading out the gears but you'd still be doing a lot of shifting.

I'm not sure I'd want an autobox with that many gears either, think how tiny those gears would be. They'd have to make them in Switzerland.

ruking1

Yes the DSG's I have read are going to the 7th speed. I don't remember where I read this but there is an 8 speed coming on the market (auto)

ateixeira

I pretty much use only 2 gears on my bike, which has, approximately, 1,856 ratios.

ateixeira

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2011/09/c7-chevy-corvette-coming-with-7- -speed-manual-di-variable-lift.html

With DI and a tall 7th maybe it can get 40mpg highway.

I'm kidding. Sort of. :P

lemmer

Once you get to 7 speeds, I think I'll give in and get a DSG. Corvettes don't really need the 6th gear as is.

volkov

ZF has an 8 that is now or will be used by many marques including Chrysler, MB, Rolls and I think BMW. Forgot Audi/VW.
Lexus has an eight they claim is their own and GM is supposed to be working on one.

MB claimed to be working on a 9! It would have to skip gears based on real time parameters, otherwise it would be shifting constantly.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't even use all 6 on a Mini Cooper for gawd's sake. :surprise:

ruking1

Thanks for the picture post. 7th gear position is where I had guessed (high right position). R (reverse) is REVERSED) to the far right lower H pattern. (it was on the far right high position)

I also stand corrected as the ZR-1 runs the Tremec 6060 and not the 6066 .

plekto

The real reason they added it was to get good test-track numbers. With tall enough gearing, 200mph+ is quite easy to do.

Remember that you can quite easily drive a Corvette and never even use 4th gear in your life if you keep it to legal speeds.

ruking1

There can be no doubt. But equally, you also can drive it in 6th gear and keep it to legal speeds. (I have yet to see the practical range of 7th gear so I have no SOTP nor infomation to really say)

Mr_Shiftright

I could see a 7th gear on the autobahn, with the high speeds and the very expensive gasoline. But in the U.S. you're lucky to get up to 85 mph.

The only car that is starting to make sense here in America (for enthusiastic drivers I mean) is a small, light car with an under 2.0L engine and 6-speeds. You can't go really fast but you can certainly feel like you are.

ruking1

Yes, I really do want the VW Golf GDI with a 6 speed manual. (turbo diesel version of the GTI) . They are roughly the same weight, app 3000 #'s. They are made to cruise at autobahn speeds literally all day all night. Well in my case till 675 miles clicks off (14 gals with .5 gal to look for fuel)

The most I would dare go in a Z06 Corvette is app 468 miles (18 gal tank with .5 to look for fuel)

stever

Infographic (Hunch)

Hm, got the yellow kitchen walls and Levis.

ateixeira

Sure enough, I match up with most of those. :shades:

srs_49

Same here, especially the one about "75% have changed a flat tire" :P .

ateixeira

Not only on my car, but also on my motorcycle, and of course bicycles (several).

xwesx

I am uncategorizable! :P

I did chuckle at the "prefers desktop computer over laptop," as I certainly fit that to a 'T'!

robr2

I fit about 70% of the profile.

BTW - I like reisling...

wwest

"..would be shifting constantly.."

Apparently you haven't driven one of these newer 6(10) speed automatics, well known for their "shiftiness".

All about trying to match the FE of a CVT.

volkov

I know they are trying to emulate CVT parameters and I have driven the MB 7. Shifting was smooth, but frequent, and therefore I have to think a 9 would be moreso unless it was designed as I said to skip gears and go to the most optimal for the engine load and throttle. Autos lose efficiency while shifting, whereas DSG and CVT do not to anywhere near the same degree.

kyfdx

Radiohead/SteelyDan/Mumford and Sons....

check..

xwesx

Creep. :P

stever

Gear Shifter Cufflinks

Mr_Shiftright

Must be for geezers....I mean, who wears cufflinks anymore and who drives an "old" 5-speed--the modern equivalent of 3-on-the-tree. :P 6 is sexy.

shipo

Hmmm, guess I'm a geezer; I've been wearing cuff-links since I started wearing suits in the late 1970s. In fact, I don't think I own a dress shirt with buttons for the cuffs. :shades:

ruking1

LOL. When I was considering a 5 speed 2003 VW TDI (in late 2002), it was almost a deal breaker not having a 6 speed. FF to MY 2009 and manuals come with gear 6.

Mr_Shiftright

I do keep a suit handy for funerals and if I get arrested and have to appear in court, but otherwise--it's been a long time...we are, after all California Casual out here---a blazer does the trick.

Actually I have a pair of Renault Dauphine cufflinks, and I'm taking offers! :P

stever

I'm sure my suit is still available down at the local thrift. I do have a tie of my own though.

I dunno Shifty, haven't had much experience with six speeds but I sure like the 5 speed pattern. The six speed I drove (at posted speed limits) just seemed to be a bit redundant. Even with a 5 speed, I'm often skipping a gear or two, usually 4th.

ruking1

Indeed, even on the Corvette, 6th gear is normally a double over drive configuration. One of the benefits can be better mpg at higher cruising speeds, if one sets up the scenarios for it.

lemmer

It is all about the gearing. Some 5 speeds are great on the highway, like my old Porsche 944. Others, like my Miata, were screaming for mercy at 80 mph.

stever

Going 80 isn't unusual, but my old Tercel really didn't scream much. I used to get up Turnagain Pass (900' from sea level to the top in about a mile) in 4th loaded up with two passengers and skis.

Miatas should stay on the blue highways. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

On my MINI 6-speed, I use 6-5 to get up long inclines a bit easier and I use 6-4 to pass someone and 6-3 if I really need to get out of someone's way.

FINALLY found the slow coolant leak in the MINI by pressure testing. It's the thermostat housing O-ring. The part is not very much $$$. Now all I need is a mechanic's grenade, part no. SST 145932, and a hand-held backhoe to excavate around the area in question. :sick:

stever

Would you really miss 6th? Especially if 5th was a bit taller if need be?

Mr_Shiftright

I think it would be a bit of a gas hog without the taller 6th, yeah, even if 5th were made a bit taller---in that latter case the gap between 4 and 5 would be too much, and with a 1.6L engine, I think it would fall on its face every time you shifted into 5. The MINI is not a light car for its size.

stever

Looks like a typical MINI runs around 2600 pounds, vs 2015 for my Tercel. Maybe I could have gotten by with a 3 speed. :shades:

xwesx

and I must say that the future of the manual looks bright to me!

I happened to be near the Ford dealership on Saturday, so I thought I would swing in and take a physical look at the Fiesta even though their website earlier in the week didn't show any manuals in stock. The kids always get a rush out of a visit to a car dealer, so I figured they would have fun with it even if I didn't get to drive anything.

Well, what did I find when I arrived, but a "yellow blaze" Fiesta, with top level trim (except leather seats) and a manual transmission! That was too tempting - I just had to drive it. With the munchkins egging me on, I really didn't have much choice, now did I?

I'll say right up front that it blew the pants off the Mazda2 in terms of the interior feel. While the 2 had better leg room in the rear, I could still sit behind myself in this one and without hitting my knees on the front seatback. I also could sit upright in the rear of this car, with my head touching the ceiling but not having to duck at all. So, that was better, anyway. Seat-of-the-pants, I would estimate 4" better clearance back there.

Visibility was excellent aside from the headrests on the rear seats jutting upward into the rear visibility, but the mirrors on this car were fantastic, with convex units integrated into the side mirrors.

It had a push-button start, which was incredibly weird to me, but also convenient and practical in a "high-tech" sort of way. I would need more exposure to it to draw out the downsides to that, but my initial reaction was positive. The controls were okay, but not nearly as intuitive as, say, Subaru. I did like the HVAC dials - those would be easy to operate with gloves on, which is always a consideration in this climate!

So, on to the transmission. SMOOTH! Definitely the smoothest I have ever driven, and by a large margin. The clutch pedal was perfectly weighted and intuitive; I had no problem with a perfectly smooth engagement right from the initial start. The car felt rather sluggish with RPMs under ~2,000, but put it above that and it was extremely peppy, with handling to match. I tell ya, it was a disappointment to go back to my Escort after that drive. I kept having to rationalize my practicality this weekend so I could resist the temptation to just go back and buy the darn thing, so obviously I need to go do random test drives more often.

My kids loved the car. It took me a few minutes to get my daughter out of the car after the test. I had to finally tell her that I was not buying it whether she stayed in it or not, and concluded with, "you can stay here if you want, but I'm walking away now and I'm not coming back." As I started walking, she hollered, "Wait! Dad! I'm coming!" :shades:

Anyway, it was fun. It really blew the socks of my Escort's performance, which surprised me a little since we are talking about economy-oriented cars, after all. Surely I was not getting 38 mpg during my 3-4 mile drive, but I wasn't testing it for fuel economy at that point.

I'm looking forward to the other new offerings in this (and the next larger) segment. Other than space and price, I don't feel like I'm giving anything up by limiting my short-list to economical sub-compacts; especially since the availability of manual transmissions in this group is fairly widespread.

ateixeira

I'm not sure I've ever seen such a lop-sided advantage comparing one trans to the other, but check out this test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/11q3/2012_chevy_sonic_ltz_turbo_- - vs._2011_honda_fit_sport_2012_hyundai_accent_se_2012_kia_rio5_sx_2012_nissan_ver- - sa_sl_2012_toyota_yaris_se-comparison_tests

The Accent manual and Rio auto have the same engine and are basically clones, yet the one with the manual simply CRUSHES the auto:

33mpg to 28mpg (18% better)
8.0s vs. 9.5s to 60mph (peppy vs. kinda slow)

It's too bad they didn't test a manual Rio, because I think it's a sportier package overall.

xwesx

I'd like to try a Fit one of these days, they just *never* have MT units in stock.

xwesx

I took a look at a Fit yesterday (along with the Rio5), but didn't drive it (it was an auto). I can definitely see why this car wins the comparison tests! Interior-wise, this car is not even in the same league as the rest of them. Cargo space, head room, visibility, passenger room... all felt much better than any of the others. I will say the Rio5 had good head room in the rear seat as well, but the seats felt rather spongy, so I'm not sure how they would hold up over time.

In both cars, the HVAC controls were much better placed than in the Fiesta (which was low on the console and too close to the shifter). I like that all of the cars, thus far, have large dials for the HVAC, making it easy to manipulate with gloved hands.

The guy at the dealership said that when (probably more like if!) they get a manual Fit, he'll give me a call. The fella that showed me the Rio5 (and previously the Mazda2) said he would do the same when they get either of those in manual form.

Fiesta still wins with its mirrors, though. All cars' sideview mirrors should mimic them.

stever

The List: 5 Masterful Manual Transmissions (Straightline)



Note that this is the list of ones the Edmunds staffers like - there's still more than five to choose from out there. So far. :shades:

(Xwes, the AT Fit was a dog, at least with three adults in it, but the MT was tolerable. But I drove that one solo).

iluvmysephia1

Edmunds has found amongst it's 5 best manual tranny's the Suzuki Kizashi's shifter to be well-sprung.

Only makes me want a Kizashi more now. Gotcha! :surprise:

ateixeira

I won't argue with them putting the Miata on that list. In fact I would have disputed the list had it *not* been on there.

xwesx

The 2 may be light on horsepower but once you get your hands on its shifter, you'll forget all about that. This transmission feels way more engaging than it has a right to, given the car's low price tag.

Interesting. I'd sure like to try it, even though I seriously doubt I will end up buying one due to the extreme lack of head room in the rear seats. Outside of Subaru, the dealer (same one for Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, and Kia) here seems to be manual-averse.

benjaminh

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/reviews/driven-2012-mazda3-skyactiv/

ateixeira

Wow, solid review, and they love the clutch and stick feel.

I think that engine option will be a hit. It's not cheap, though not expensive either. I'm sure they package in other goodies. I bet it's the best selling of the 3 engines, too.

shipo

"I bet it's the best selling of the 3 engines, too."

Agreed. Now if we could just order/buy a car with that engine and transmission with the options we want, the SkyActiv Mazda3 will be our next car. Sadly it looks like Mazda is severely limiting the options for manual transmission equipped SkyActiv models, and even keeping some options from the SkyActiv with an automatic. Stupid move Mazda, stupid move.

xwesx

They probably want to ensure people will help them clear out the old inventory. If every option were available, what incentive (other than initial price) would they have to buy the old version?

shipo

Are you suggesting that as soon as the 2011s are sold, they'll add a manual transmission to the "i GT" models as well as offering them with such things as Automatic Climate Control?

ateixeira

Yeah, it should be seen as the primary choice.

Did I hear no cruise with the manual SkyActiv? Hope that's not the case...