The Future Of The Manual Transmission

andys120

Whatever the merits/demerits of the current BMW SMG or their new A/T they are moving quickly to a
Twin clutch sequential box similar to VW's and will soon introduce a 7-Speed DSG in the new M3.

Try rowing thru a 7-speed dogleg pattern. :P

plekto

Try rowing thru a 7-speed dogleg pattern.
***

I'd be game

dudleyr

Sounds fun to me. Truckers have even more to choose from.

gimmegirl

I'm not giving up my stick until I'm so arthritic that I can't press the clutch! I just bought a Matrix 2007 XR 5-speed and I love it! Every personal car I've ever owned (going back to my '64 Beetle a million years ago) has been a stick.

I like the savings off the cost of the car. I like the gas savings. I've become an expert at coasting at or above the speed limit in neutral, and I got 41 MPG on my last tank of gas.

I like the fact that a lot of young car theives don't know how to drive a stick and therefore can't steal my car. I like the control in snow and ice. (I have lived in Alaska and Rhode Island and have never been stuck in the snow. Not bad for a woman who didn't see her first white Xmas until she was 21.)

I like the fact that friends and family can't ask to borrow my car because they CAN'T drive it!

My BF and I are teaching his daughters to drive a stick - it's a nice skill to have. And of course, if you travel to other countries, it's cheaper and easier to rent a car.

Don't even THINK about taking my stick.

exzur2071

Driving an automatic car is like driving a pop car. It's boring. There's too much fun out of driving a clutch manual shift car.

cdnpinhead

Welcome to the party.

You're our kinda person (well the pro-manual tribe anyway).

asa

Speaking of Nissan, I'm thrilled with my '06 Frontier 6-Speed Crew Cab. Amongst mid-size trucks, only Nissan (4x2 and 4x4) and Toyota (4x4) offer a manual tranny Crew Cab configuration. Chevy Colorado dropped theirs in '06 and the others offer a manual only in non-Crew Cabs.

My wife and I love our manual trannies (she drives a Subie Forester), but worry that some day we'll be forced into the world of P R and D. Sigh.

habitat1

I like the fact that a lot of young car theives don't know how to drive a stick and therefore can't steal my car.

I would have said you are stretching with that one....until a week ago tonight.

My wife and I awoke at 2:30 a.m. to blasting music in front of our house. By the time I ran downstairs and out the front door, the perpetrator was gone. There sat my Acura TL 6-speed in front of our house, all 4 windows rolled down, with "Juke Box Hero" blasting on the XM radio. I jumped in the car, turned the radio off and found my valet key in the ignition. How someone got ahold of it, is still a mystery. Hadn't used it in many months and may have inadvertently left it in the glove box.

The police speculated that the would-be thief didn't realize that, although you can turn the ignition on and power the windows and radio, you have to push the clutch in for the engine to start.

So here I am as an actual example of someone who's car wasn't stolen because it was a manual transmission. Or, on the other hand, the victim of a nutty kid's prank that is a big fan of Foreigner. All of my neighbors now know the words to "Juke Box Hero" and also know that I wear boxer shorts to bed.

iluvmysephia1

kudos to your taste in music and a lot of your neighbors should've dug 'Juke Box Hero' at high volume!

bristol2

You make a good point about rental cars in foreign countries.

We rented a car in England and there was not even an option for an automatic unless you went super-expensive in a premium rental that would cost an arm and a leg.

It would seem a shame to be locked into the US or public transport just because you can't use your left leg when driving... :P

bumpy

If you can afford to go to Europe, you can afford to rent a 5-series for a few days.

bristol2

Not true.

Kind of silly to say also. There are plenty of people who could afford to go to Europe but are not living 5-star when they get there.

I can afford to go to Europe but I'm scrimping and saving to go there.

Anyway the point is, the whole world does not drive automatic and does not cater to you if you do.

shipo

You've got to be kidding. Have you ever been there and tried to rent a car? Granted the car rental prices have come down in recent years over there, however, it's still quite expensive.

Ten years ago when I was working with MB-USA over in Stuttgart they couldn't let me use one of the E-Class cars they had set aside for the American employees (I'm a consultant), so they had to rent me a car. Would you believe that a BMW 318i 5-Speed with power nothing was over $1,200 per week? Yeesh! I actually had higher automobile expenses on my expense reports than I had for the Business Class airfare.

Best Regards,
Shipo

gimmegirl

Shipo, you are right about renting a car in foreign countries. I've travled to more than 40 countries, and I can count on one hand the number of countries where getting an automatic rental car was anything other than impossible - or hideously expensive.

And re the young car thieves, I'm not saying that a manual transmission car CAN'T be stolen - just a whole lot less likely. Driving a stick really is becoming a lost skill.

And this silly automatic-shifting crap that the car makers are (will be?) selling is a bunch of nonsense. A silly marketing gimmick to make people who don't know how to drive a stick pretend that they are shifting gears. It's like putting training wheels on a haaaaawg. (That a Harley for you unaware types.

asa

< And re the young car thieves, I'm not saying that a manual transmission car CAN'T be stolen - just a whole lot less likely. Driving a stick really is becoming a lost skill. >

There was a posting on a Nissan forum about a year ago where a new Frontier 6-Speed owner was robbed at gunpoint in his office of his cellphone and Frontier keys. He watched through the office window as the thief frustrated himself trying to get the Frontier underway, then gave up and ran. The cops arrested the would-be thief within the hour and you guessed it -- he didn't know how to work the manual tranny.

iluvmysephia1

no, if it don't have training wheels the big 'ole biker is gonna fall over, isn't he?

stever

"With engine braking planning ahead is less of a challenge. Lift off the throttle and the car slows down. Manual transmissions -- which lock the drive wheels to the engine do this any time the throttle is closed. It's one of the many physics-related reasons I'm convinced manual transmissions make people better drivers. This subtlety allows an attentive driver to efficiently pick a line through traffic without ever touching the brakes. Need to slow a little? Just back out of the gas. Automatics, however, slow very little when a driver lifts off the accelerator -- so down goes the brake pedal and on go the brake lights. The result is usually a crescendo of brake lights and unneeded slowing in the traffic behind."

2006 Lexus RX400h: Engine braking optional

Which brings me to this - note the "B"

kyfdx

That's interesting..

My automatic '02 CR-V has engine braking similar to a manual.. It is easy to drive, and I'm at 85K on the original brakes..

But, I think it is the major factor holding me back from higher gas mileage numbers..

How about your CR-V? Stick or auto?

stever

It's an Outback and unfortunately an auto. I miss my old 5 speed. My wife likes to drive a manual too, so there's really no excuse not to have one, except for the creampuff deal we got on the OB. Haven't seen a manual in a US minivan since the early Caravan years.

kyfdx

I had a '98 CR-V with a stick.. I miss it, too..

My fault, though...

I do have the wife excuse, though..

lilengineerboy

Haven't seen a manual in a US minivan since the early Caravan years.

Mazda5

dudleyr

The Mazda 5 is tantalizingly close to a minivan, but it only seats 4 people (with room for 2 children you don't like very much in the way back )

If it had 3 accross seating in the middle it would be much more attractive.

stever

You know, I forgot about the 5.

And it isn't really all that much smaller than the original SWB Caravans is it? A 4 seater is plenty for us.

It's been on my list for a while just because of its size, but I'm not in minivan replacement mode until the Quest passes a decade (hopefully), and that's still a couple of years out.

Thanks for the reminder!

british_rover

Really????

I don't think so at the last autoshow I made it a point to sit in all the third row equiped vehicles since the LR3 is supposed to have the best thrid row in the world.

There were a couple that I couldn't figure out how to get into the third row, Audi Q7 being the worst offender, but of all the ones I could get into the Mazda 5 seemed to be the best. Well at least the best excluding the LR3 which reallly does seem to have the best third row as long as you don't need a lot of width in the back.

andys120

My automatic '02 CR-V has engine braking similar to a manual..

Most 21st century autoboxes have adaptive software that will create engine some braking when the throttle is closed and manumatics like my Steptronic can easily be dropped into a lower gear to further slow the car while descending hills, I do it every day.

Automatics have improved a lot since your father's '59 Oldsmobile. :shades:

british_rover

Some of the high end auto boxes with a triptronic or steptronic feature even blip the throttle on downshifts.

dudleyr

I was comparing the 5 to minivans (Sienna Odyssey etc) so the rear seat was tiny. I did not fit. The middle row seats seamed small as well. Our first generation Odyssey had much much more room in the middle and in the rear and it seated 7. It also drove just like an Accord (but slower) as it only weighed 3,500 lbs and basically had the underpinnings of an Accord V-6.

I so wanted Honda to bring the new JDM Odyssey over here with a stick shift. With the new 2.4l engine it would have had much more power and much better fuel economy than my model.

nippononly

I will agree that of the many third rows out there, the one in the Mazda5 was perhaps the most pleasant surprise, although I must add that the one in the LR3 lived up to the hype. :-)

Two adults can sit in the back row of the 5 with minimal fuss. Try that in a Jeep Commander - OMG, no way!

Plus, the 5 is now the only van with a stick, which leaves it in a class of one in my book. ;-)

british_rover

Oh man the commander is the one I tried right after the mazda 5. I thought I pulled my hip out of joint trying to get into the back of that car.

Of all the third row equpieed vehicles I have tried I would put the top three as...

1. Land Rover LR3 as long as you don't need a lot of width
2. Mazda 5
3. GL450 as long as you don't need a lot of head room oh and can live with the stupid way you get in the third row. The GL had much more width then the LR3 but less legroom and much less head room.

nippononly

And of course, of those three, the Mazda is the only one with a stick shift available, so it is the only one in the running! :-)

british_rover

Exactly...

Unless you are in Europe and can get the 6 Speed manual TDV6 LR3.

nippononly

Oh man, if they brought that one over here, I might buy one just to make a point!

(Wellll, I dunno, an SUV? Even with the diesel I bet it doesn't do very well on fuel) :-/

british_rover

Yeah a three ton truck with a 190 hp diesel is not the greatest combination...

UK Fuel economy

Converting from imperial gallons to US gallons looks like around 25 mpg combined for the diesel V6.

bristol2

They get around 20mpg with diesel and manual. Better than 12 or what-ever terrible number they get with gas.

boaz47

20 with a manual? My F-250 got 20 with an automatic and a full load in the back. Big Powerstroke at that.

british_rover

20 City and and 29 highway.

It is still a three ton vehicle empty.

dsirias

I have 2007 Grand Touring on factory order; tested a base model and I liked the transmission a lot. But does anyone have long term experience with that shifter and clutch. Did your opinion change over time?

nippononly

Good God, 3 tons empty???

I have to agree with an article I read recently that opined that Land Rover needs to lose weight to the tune of about a ton for each model in order to regain parity with other brands.

Gosh, is it true that the only 4WD SUVs I can buy with a stick right now are XTerra, FJ, and H3? Oh, never mind, there's Jeep as well, and car-based stuff like Sportage and Escape. Whew, I had a bad moment there! ;-)

Too bad RAV and CRV went to automatic-only this time around - those are a pair that could really use the stick with the 4-cylinder engine.

stickguy

I drove one a few months back (V6 model) and liked it a lot. If we had to replace the minivan now I would try to convince my wife to go that way.

Now, if they would offer the V6 with a stick (even a 5 speed, never mind 6!) I would forge her name on the title and trade the damn thing in when she was at work.

The other thing that could get me to do something (relatively, more than my normal) stupid is if Mazda came out with a Speed 5. Just take the drivetrain from the speed 3 and drop her right in. Improve the seats, add some armrests, and we be good to go.

The JDM odyssey with a stick would be just (mama bear) right. About the size of the original US version I think, but a more manageable size.

Ah, to dream the impossible dream...

lilengineerboy

Gosh, is it true that the only 4WD SUVs I can buy with a stick right now are XTerra, FJ, and H3? Oh, never mind, there's Jeep as well, and car-based stuff like Sportage and Escape. Whew, I had a bad moment there!

That little Suzuki one that the KiaLover guy was raving about a little while back is available as a manual.

iluvmysephia1

sedan came along from the 3-headed diamond people and swept me away. BTW-the new Suzuki SX4 sedan should be pert-near here by now, shan't it?

plekto

I'd go and drive the Wrangler Unlimited. It's like what a H2 should have been - just amazing how it looks. And, yes, it has stick standard. Oh - and it drives very nicely on the road. I guarantee you'll fall in love with it.

stickguy

not a chance, from what I have read about them. Way too rough and noisy, with marginal on road handling. Since I never go off road, it really has no value to me.

Although the convertible would be nice...

No way my wife would be interested in one of these, of that I am sure!

stickguy

FWIW, only the 4 cyl front wheel drive model comes with a stick. 4WD is AT only.

plekto

That was the OLD Wrangler. What a differnce a modern interior, well over a foot longer wheelbase, and actual rear doors make. Plus, it has tons more sounrproofing.

It really does feel like a tiny Hummer. But, yes, it still is a truck. That's good in a way, because yuppies move out of its way and it can take an enormous amount of damage before it shows it due to very thick steel panels and loads of overbuilding. Plus, it has a silly high resale value.

nippononly

it is RIDICULOUS to call the SX4 an SUV, it is smaller than a Corolla hatchback, with the underpinnings to match. The fact that it accidentally has AWD does not make it an SUV. Four people would be cramped sitting in it for long, it has no low-range, it's really just a rainy weather car.

So Escape 4-cyl AWD is only available as an automatic? That's silly, what with the size of that 4-cyl engine. They should have put a stick in it to take maximum advantage of every hp!

stickguy

Unless they changed recently, I believe that AWD requires the V6. The 4 is the only way to get a stick, and only comes in FWD.

lilengineerboy

Did anyone mention this yet? IIRC 4wd and 5spds were an option, although not on the CRD.
I have happy memories of camping and mtn biking with buddies in a old school Cherokee that was a 4wd 2.5l stick...

nippononly

Yeah, and the manual is a 6 speed! Pretty good, considering the automatic is still a 4 speed.

british_rover

Err I have not had good experiences with Liberties.

Probably better off getting a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with a stick.