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Regards,
OW
I gotta tell ya, I must not be someone who craves the drifting, bad rap music and hysteria of doing something that law enforcement frowns upon. And shifting with a 5 or 6-speed stick shift. Dare I say I'm doing fine without shifting gears with a stick shift and clutch pedal action?
Guess what? I'm doing fine...on days I want to play I move the gear selector to 'CVT' mode, put on some Foghat propelled by my Lancer's 650-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo with subwoofer, and pop the gears, sans clutch pedal. And it's fun and it gets the job done.
As fun as a 5 or 6-speed manual tranny? Let's put it this way, with the toys this car has and that gorgeous bodystyle, I'm digging every minute of this car. Maybe I'll get a 5-speed or a 6-speed stick for my next rig, then again, maybe I won't. It's the car I want, not the particular mode of transmission.
Sounds almost like boaz47 speaking, doesnt it?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Regards,
OW
I hate to be the one to tell you this, iluv, but you don't HAVE gears. Just a niiiice big stretchy rubber belt.... ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And from what we understand, be it rubber or steel or a cone, they have an almost unlimited amount of possible gear ratios. In almost every test done by the auto-mags it gets about the same fuel mileage as a manual and keeps the engine in the proper rpm range for EPA clean running. But for the more traditional drivers they put in shift points so the would, feel, the car shift because people couldn't get used to smooth as silk power delivery. Or is that not the reason?
They have an almost unlimited number of POWER ratios. They have no GEARS at all.
But for the more traditional drivers they put in shift points so the would, feel, the car shift because people couldn't get used to smooth as silk power delivery
They put in those silly paddle shifters because many people couldn't get used to that motor boat sound every time they want some giddy-up-and-go. So they gave the driver the ability to force the vehicle to act LESS EFFICIENTLY in order to compensate. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So we give up efficiency for ascetics? How it sounds or how it "feels"? I can see that. Still it isn't a power ratio in most cases. The engine revs to the proper RPM to meet the more efficient HP and Torque. Now in a nod to the environmentalists there is no additional rpms added between gears like the average manual driver adds to their shift.
I agree that as long as we have no intention of changing our driving habits and our favorite fuel manuals will be with us even if they are in ever decreasing numbers. But if we are indeed have to question our use of oil how long can the status quo stay. Right now what direction are we moving in? More hybrids or less? If a manual driver today is interested in fuel economy will they not be tempted by the increased fuel economy of a hybrid? And hybrids do not tend to be manuals. And for the greenies isn't clean more important than shifting yourself? ( and I know you have said that personally you would rather give up fuel economy to shift yourself. The reason you rejected hybrids in the first place.)
However if we still have plenty of oil and hybrids are just a passing fancy you might be right. The 8 or 9 percent manuals may always be there for people who want to row their own gears.
I could care less if one calls it "gear-shifting" or CVT rubber-baby-bumper-belting, it doesn't mean donkey dung to me. I have found an entire package of goodies in a Japanese car that I love, and not having a 5 or 6-speed manual tranny with real gears means about as much to me as never ever again seeing Dennis Rodman again play basketball for the Detroit Pistons. If mentioning that I sincerely hope I never again see Dennis Rodman's face in a basketball uniform or a polo shirt golfing gives any strong clues as to how much I am gaining an ulcer worrying whether automakers will retain the manual transmission, well, take it FWI'sW. :P
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
There's just no substitute for the tried and true - 3-pedal manuals. I wonder when the last time was (if ever?) an automaker had to settle a class action lawsuit over premature failures of its manual transmissions.
Edit....it was 90,000 vehicles, here's the link: http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-settles-class-action-lawsuit.html
Let's hope other automakers are making CVTs more durable than that, eh? ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've mentioned this before, but it was thousands of posts ago: I first read of the CVT in Popular Science in 1960 or '61, and it was in a pile of back-issues someone gave me. The ariticle was probably from the late '50's. So, here we have 50-year old technology that's just now entering rate production and wide distribution.
Want to bet that durability "issues" were the reason we haven't seen it sooner? It could be made to work okay on <50 hp machines, but on a 200+ hp engine, maybe not so much.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We all had to have learned at some point. We were not always experienced, of course not!
Also, we can't assume the driver is already very familiar with the car. What if it's borrowed? Or even if it's yours and you just bought it, it's new to you.
Yes, an experienced driver can get to know their own car very well over time, but that's not the only case.
Now, Mitsu, after having provided all of the other things that I love about the Lancer GTS, would have to totally screw up the transmission at this point to make things seem like a losing proposition. But they didn't...it seems they did their homework. The automatic CVT with titanium paddle shifters works flawlessly, time after time after time after time after time. Am I missing something here? I don't think I am.
Now, gentlemen, I don't stare back at the manual transmission with disdain. Far from it. I'm just saying that after everything is nicely fitted in an automobile like on my '08 Lancer GTS, the transmission becomes secondary to fit, function, style and...umm....a great car. If that isn't clear, maybe Dennis Rodman is going to be making a comeback. Hope he's had some of those tattos removed or re-illustrated to include some pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge, the Space Needle and maybe one of the Seattle Sonics logo at the time of their demise. Come on, Dennis, don't let us all down!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I have been an occasional poster on this forum and always very pro-manual.
I must now state that yesterday I traded my v6 6-speed Accord for an automatic F-150.
Some things have changed and we need to pull a trailer and haul feed, there was nothing out there that I could find fast in a manual that would do it.
Stick-shifters- I have failed you.
On the flip side I got an absolute steal on a beautiful 2008 King Ranch F-150. $26.5 with 4WD and only 7000 miles.
Now I just have to get the wife in a manual 5-Series.....
It's OK to have an automatic special purpose vehicle that is hard or impossible to find with a stick, if you have a daily driver with a manual. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wow, $26.5? That's a $50k truck, new, no?
Oil is down to $91 a barrel. Maybe I'll get one to replace my Miata.
A sales manager from a Ford dealership was the original owner and so I'm sure he got a great deal from his dealership. He got himself a new job with a Toyota dealership. Toyota has been hyper-aggressive in getting their employees, contractors and vendors into Tundras (I'm in San Antonio so it's like a home-town kind of thing) and so he traded his Ford for a Tundra.
I guess that the dealership wasn't too interested in having a top of the line Ford on the lot so they value priced it way down. Basically I paid dealer-trade for the truck.
It is a little strange though, I am always checking the tach and mentally prepare to down-shift as I approach lights....
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Funny, I cannot help then but putting my auto 335 in M mode and down-shift anyway.
What I miss with the auto is two-fold: to get a quicker engine response when stepping down the throttle, and on the other hand to keep the engine shifted into a higher gear at low revs when coasting. All that makes me feeling I am not in full control of the engine. If new/future autos could shift as quick as manuals and additionally provide that feeling, then they would be OK for me.
Regards,
Jose
Yeah. Just turn up the bass, add some bling-bling chrome and you'll totally forget that you're driving a slush box
Right now I notice it most when braking. It is not a comfortable feeling to be controlling my speed with brakes alone. It feels like I'm only getting half the opportunity to slow the vehicle.
I keep turning into M mode to down-shift while braking because of that. What has been a surprise to me is that I can get a lot of fun when driving that way on down-hill winding roads. Yet sometimes the down-shifting still is not quicker enough.
Regards,
Jose
Tell me you don't drive a Ford, GMC, Dodge or Chevy pick-em-up truck. If you do I will probably lose my cup-a-noodles all over my keyboard.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Don't let them bring you down. You have something that meets your needs and you like it. You're the one payin' for it, thats what counts
I decided to check out how fast I could pass someone if I wanted to accelerate from 30-50 this afternoon. I had happened to fall behind a slow car. So I signalled left and floored it!......and waited.......and waited.....and the powertrain slowly took what seemed like a deep breath.......and about an hour later it downshifted, first one gear, then with another hesitation half as long again, a second gear down.
I would have been past the slow driver in my stick shift ECHO in half the time.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Anyhow, I'm bucking the popular trend in this thread, I realize. Like lilengineerboy says, I'm the one paying for the car so if I like it that's all that matters.
Next rig I get may very well have a simple toggle or "selector switch" on the dashboard for gear selection. Or should I say "mode" selection. Forward or reverse. I would like my next rig to be an all-electric. Simple switches for forward or reverse, no clutch pedals, no stick shifts and no titanium paddle shifters behind the steering wheel for those, huh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My Lincoln LS did the same thing. Waited only a half-hour to downshift!
Must be FORDS.
Regards,
OW
Oddly, both use GM-built a/ts (the Bimmers was made by a GM subsidiary in Strasbourg, France.).... go figure :confuse:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Regards,
OW
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I just don't know how anyone can STAND to drive an automatic, LET ALONE how it became the more popular transmission.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Aside from the fact that some of us don't have a choice, the better modern A/Ts aren't as bad as you think. Certainly they're much better than what that 'Stang had..
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
They became popular because Americans are all about convenience and the majority only care about getting from point A to point B in the most comfortable fashion possible and with the latest bells and whistles.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My Sienna hesitates a bit, though our new Forester is great, it picks the right gear right away.
This comes from the cars.com review for the '08 Mustang, and mimics my reaction: step on the gas in this thing, and what you get is a lot more commotion than any actual MOTION. And that downshift is soooo long in coming....it's really eye-opening as to just how bad an automatic can still be in the year 2008. And I can't imagine that the Mustang's would be the very worst one out there.
Note that the reviewer says how much BETTER the manual is. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've taught at least 3 people how to drive clutch. Only one picked it up naturally.
Before he even got in the car I explained the mechanics to him. I taught him how to find the exact spot where the clutch engages without even using the throttle.
He was a quick learner, put it that way. He still drives clutch today.
I've taught at least 3 people how to drive clutch. Only one picked it up naturally. "
My experience is pretty much the same. Out of ten kids I have taught to drive a stick only my son stayed with it. It is just about the national average of one out of ten. I believe the reason is as some say, it is easier. But it is also because young people want a car and a license worse than they want the experience of driving a manual. I asked a friend at our local DMV to give me an idea how many young drivers show up with a manual to take their driving test. His estimate was maybe one in a hundred. I believe they are afraid of failing with a manual because if they stall they lose points.
But maybe the real reason is as one poster said, automatics are easier and we in this country admire convienince almost as much as we do anything. Popular options reflect this I believe. Power windows are almost standard as are power door locks. In fact automatic power windows that go down with one push is almost standard. Driving is not a sport to most consumers it is a necessary part of getting from one place to another where you can work or recreate. As a society we have changed.
When I was a kid my family would go for drives just for the pleasure of driving. Today that would be a wasteful exercise. We might pile the family into a Mini Van and go somewhere but the somewhere we went was the point of the trip not the trip itself.
Look at marketing in the US. New and improved is always attached to word like, easier to use. It is perfectly natural to want easier to use in this country that has been the direction our industry has been moving for more than 230 years. When was the last time you bought a wind up watch? Did they work? was it difficult to wind? The answer is no but people just find battery powered watches easier to use, they don't have to do anything.
I keep reading that Japanese kids aren't even all that interested in owning a car, much less caring whether it's a manual or automatic. Woe be to the dealer if a car doesn't come with an iPod connection though.
Yes, Japan is the gadget capital of the world. But our Xbox/WII generation isn't far behind. If you have good public transportation the personal car becomes less imparitive. When fuel goes up driving for pleasure almost becomes anti social. So cars become transportation pods. Japan has been a leader in the movement to make cars as dependable as toasters and when you are heading in that direction bells and wistles become more important than feeling every bump in the road. The American consumer seems far closer to the Asian consumer in demanding dependability and ease of use from their machines than do our European cousins. But American don't seem to look to Europe for the future. I believe the American consumer is far more comfortable with the direction we are going and the solutions we get from Asia. For the US consumer words like, "new and improved, simple and easy" sell. "Old tried and true" doesn't have the same effect to the new consumer in this country.
I started noticing this craze back in 2004 while getting my college Allied Health training. A classmate of about 19 years of age was texting her boyfriend while the teacher was lecturing. The teacher did notice this and told the student to put her cell phone away, that was not a new rule, anyway, but this student was enamored with texting.
At that time I didn't even have a cell phone, much less want to text message on one. I have had cell phone service for about a year and a half now. I don't even have the slightest craving to want to punch messages and send them on my cell phone.
Yet people are slaughtering themselves(and apparently locomotive engineers are as well, what a tragedy
What might all of this have to do with manual tranny's vs. automatic tranny's? Well, texting would have to be easier with automatic transmissioned-cars, eh? I knew if I thought about it long enough I'd come up with another good reason not to drive stick! What do y'all think about that stinky bit 'a treasure?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Texting, and any form of distracting and/or dangerous form of multitasking is much easier with an automatic in cities and any sort of traffic, yes. However, you can just leave a manual car in top gear on the highway and voila, you can do anything you could with an automatic. Except maybe for those tiny breaks where you have to shift gears for traffic or to take an exit, or something. :shades:
Some will simply give me a blank look and ask why? Why a car GPS or why a bike computer? Simple, instant information and ease of use.
look at what we are doing in this forum. We aren't putting to pen and paper our thought and mailing them to each other we are doing it by computer is what could be if we wanted, real time. My refrigerator frost free, my oven is self cleaning. My phone is wireless. My TV is remote as is my DVD/CD player and every house I know has a microwave. We as a nation seem to want easy to use things. I don't eve flip a switch to turn on a porch light.
Some have suggested Americans are lazy if they don't drive a manual. I believe we are lazy if we drive when we can walk or ride a bike so the transmission doesn't count as exercise.