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Sure I have a BlackBerry but I have a headset, too, and it can even take voice commands.
"Call Home". (phone rings...)
Can't beat that.
Who needs a watch? It has my entire calendar, alarms and all. Contacts, e-mail, camera, MP3, maps, the works.
Is it distracting? Not when used properly. A GPS for instance can let you keep eyes on the road while it barks out voice commands.
You can actually sit back and drive, relax. No more paper maps, no more looking for exit numbers, hoping you didn't miss your exit.
I love technology, bring it! :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
OK I don't know French.
Don't know what I would do if they ever stop producing that décalage de bâton and embrayage I treasure!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even the delivery vans in Paris are stick shift. Long live the manual!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only other country I would ever be interested in as far as moving is Spain. It is also a place where I could see using public transportation. Then who cares what transmission they use?
Here in California, the suburbs extend out 60, 80 miles from every city, effectively eliminating all places one might go for a fun weekend drive. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The weekend drive is quickly becoming politically incorrect in our state. My family used to take weekend drives where there were places to drive to just for the beauty of what we could see. Today most of those places are housing tracks, industrial complexes and entertainment centers. Todays families drive to get somewhere period.
Go to a party and sit around a table with a group of friends, non auto enthusiasts, and tell them you like to drive for pleasure and they will look at you like you lit a cigarette in Church. "What do you do for fun Nippon?" Oh I get in my car and take a two or three hour drive." What they hear is, "I like to burn gas for two or three hours just because I can," Drive the same two hours at Sea World, for me, or where ever you can go for you, and they will sit back and smile even if you had to spend another 200 bucks to walk around an amusement park on top of your gas.
Well, I do weekend drives several times a year and often extend business trips a day or two on one end or the other, just "to burn gas for two or three days, just because". . . I like to. And, yeah, I can. Anyone who doesn't like it can stuff it.
In addition, I usually take one trip a year just to drive, and it's not a few hours or a few days. It's generally 9 days and sometimes longer. In 2007 I made it up to Skagway, AK, and Dawson, YT -- 7400 miles, as I recall. The road is my home & my therapy. The fact that it's currently not politically correct just makes it that much better.
Is it your opinion this is a healthy attitude? Should more people use your method of therapy? But remember I used a hypothetical of societal pressure.
I used to love the good old days when I could drive my 426 Hemi and stomp my foot to the floor and lay rubber dust all over the little Chevy in the lane next to me. But we are being told that there is a fuel crisis and we should be saving gas. Automotive enthusiasts may or may not believe this but we are a small percentage of the automotive consumers.
I am still trying to picture 17 million new car buyers being told by their sales men, "the weekend drive is back. Buy this car and you will never have to worry how much gas you burn. In fact fuel mileage isn't important, burn all you want and if people don't like it?"
You sound like a person I would like to have coffee with. But do it before some tree hugger has you stoned.
Oh it only counts if you rent a Hummer for the trip.
That's all Renault/Nissan seems to be sending us.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Unless, you consider the various manual-control automatics, which is a different matter. This is, of course, just the opinion of a die-hard stick-shift devotee. :shades:
James
But what I wanted to comment on was your statement on driving and how much you like it. Drive on, because driving is not illegal, there's an oil company around that wants your ghastly dollar and a service station that wants your ghastly dollar, too.
But driving is fun and a form of entertainment for a lot of us automotive enthusiasts. And whether we drive a rig with an ICE, hybrid, or all-electric, I believe it is important to be able to feel free to do just that. Drive our rigs with glee...I love driving around Arizona and New Mexico seeing new places and learning about the people of that land. Around here are the Chiricahua National Monument(the "land of standing rocks" the native Indians called them) with their enchanting rock spire formations, that are truly fascinating to see. Only about 37 miles south of Willcox, too. There is Fort Bowie, where Geronimo was held by the U.S. Army, after finally catching the great Apache warrior, back in 1886. Fort Bowie's ruins are available for viewing and they are only 25 miles SE of my home. More interesting rock formations are found in Texas Canyon with the Dragoon Mountain range and their rocks resting on top of other rocks and abnormalities are great to visit. I-10 actually runs right between the formations.
Cochise Stronghold is about 45 miles west of me here in Willcox, and that is the proud Chief Cochise's old hiding place from the Cavalry and anyone else he didn't want to find him.
We drove up to see a Foghat concert in October of '07 near Wickenburg, AZ, about 60 miles or so NW of Phoenix. The next day we left our motel and drove up to the Grand Canyon. I have never seen anything like that place and heartily await our next visit. When my son ran up to the edge on the SE area of the South Rim, he just stopped in his tracks and stared in amazement.
"Dad, you're not gonna believe this!"
He's right, I couldn't believe the beauty I was staring at. Incredible, awe-inspiring natural beauty that just went on and on.
Point is, fact is, this country has benefited greatly from the automobile and it's availability to people. It's given us freedom and mobility that can't be rivalled by the horses and the carriages. Agreed?
If we still have a rig with a ICE, and most of us do, I am for driving as much as we can afford to drive and for as long and far as we want.
Restricting that idea is bad for business, bad for the economy and bad for our emotional health collectively. But it's an individual thing that varies according to the person, agreed. The environmentalists will never be satisfied, whatever propels our automobiles. You realize that, don't y'all?
And if you love a manual-trannied rig way more than an automatic-trannied rig, ya know what, you've got that right. Once again, it's an individual thing. I think that with the advent of hybrid and all-electric propulsion technology you're gonna have to be ready to abandon your stickshift vehicle, however. Reading up on the subject points me to things like automatic push-button starts for new world order rigs like this.
And after starting the rigs, I am reading of the implementation of simple levers for putting the power to the wheels, like "forward" and "reverse" buttons. Does that doom the manual tranny? I don't think so. Especially if you've got some awesome backyard mechanical skills, gentlemen. I am starting to see the end of the manual transmission. But that's just my view, my car-nut buddies.
Think I'll go exploring in the Lancer GTS. And I'll feel good about doing just that, too. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
To be consistent you would have to be just as approving of the Hummer driver mentioned earlier commuting in his vehicle simply because it makes them feel good. After all you said:
If we still have a rig with a ICE, and most of us do, I am for driving as much as we can afford to drive and for as long and far as we want.
Restricting that idea is bad for business, bad for the economy and bad for our emotional health collectively. But it's an individual thing that varies according to the person, agreed. The environmentalists will never be satisfied, whatever propels our automobiles. You realize that, don't y'all?
Thomas Paine couldn't have written a more compelling speech for the car enthusiast than you did for disregarding societies disdane for the unfettered use of the automobile to use as much fuel as you can afford. Using that logic would I be justified in parking my compact car and driving my Tahoe as a daily driver? I can afford the fuel and the Tahoe is a lot more comfortable than the little 4 banger. However I haven't put fuel in the Tahoe since August 19th.
I will be in the 4 corner states in October and do plan on visiting places like the Garden of the Gods, Sky City, and Chinle Canyon. Until then I believe I should be more responsible than to use all the fuel I can afford just because I feel like it. Even if I have the freedom to do so.
Once again, that's an individual decision. High fuel costs are going to continue to drive down the miles people are going to be able to afford to use, but, I believe that if one can afford to use more fuel, they should feel free to use it. The numbers of these people have been so sharply diminished of late anyway. If a rogue warrior has the time and money to drive insane distances to see America, or Canada, or Mexico as they see fit, I say have at it.
The "green" crowd will never be satisfied, even when all ICE vehicles are in the scrap heap, and hybrid technology, all-electric technology and fuel cell technology are filling the nation's highways and biways. I believe the market will automatically correct the resource usage on it's own as time marches on, but outside of that, I support those who want to and can travel for entertainment.
Now if Uncle Sam imposes restrictions on individual energy monthly usage in the form of vehicle fuel, like being honorable in paying Federal, state and local taxes, I would of course abide and pay. Or in this case, restrict how much I pay. Will it come to that? Don't think it will. We'll be on to other forms of transportation propulsion by then. But in the absence of the Guv-Mint reaching out and strangling someone's individual usage, I say pay for what you want or need and travel to your heart's desire. We've never been much of a nation of restrictions, have we?
To fulfill my future automotive "fuel" usage, I am going to need to have recharging stations available to keep moving around. A whole new way of propelling, indeed. And another whole transportation energy story for another day. Those of you insisting on Hummer-ing along and driving large pick-em-up trucks and RV's etc., will have to make your own fueling decisions. But I wouldn't want to be the one to deny you those privileges. No way.
Those are decisions for the Department of Transportation Secretary, the current adminstration in charge's energy dept,. etc., to make. This type of decision may be made for us by the Federal Guv-Mint and the state governments. Everyone is accountable for their own fuel short term and long-term usage decisions. Some years one may want to use more "fuel", whatever it might be, in whatever form, more than they use during another particular year, huh? No siree-Bob, I am not going to be the one charged with judging someone else on that sort of a thing.
And, personally, I am for the continued existence of the manual transmission, too. I like having the ability to pick and choose propulsion and drive modes on every new rig I choose to buy on out ahead down the road.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I remember running Texas Canyon back in '78, but I quit going that way once I figured out that it was shorter (& quicker, with the 55 mph limits then) to run through Globe & Safford. I've hiked to the bottom of the Grand Canyon three or four times & certainly appreciate it as well.
The greenies won't be happy until we're all walking and/or riding bicycles, with the (rare) use of public transit for everything else. Something like being barefoot & pregnant comes to mind. Oh wait, that's a different downtrodden class, and that one's in the PC "protected" group.
To try and pop back on to the topic of this discussion, a brand of car that really should always be purchased with a manual transmission would be a MG. I mean, driving a MG Midget or MGB with an automatic tranny? Come on, gotta be a stick for a rig like that. Another brand would be the Triumph TR-3, TR-4, TR-6, TR-250, TR-7, and on and on. Those would need to be stick shift transmission-ed or it just wouldn't play out to be the right automotive experience, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I kind of like the idea of the 7 speed slushies they are building for next year. Keeping the shifts in a short rev band should improve MPG, no?
Regards,
OW
I can change instantly and effortlessly to another band-spot and the engine/drivepower pops to it right quick. I never thought I'd like the CVT system as much as I do but it actually works like a champ.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Regards,
OW
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I am surprised that someone that has said,
"If we still have a rig with a ICE, and most of us do, I am for driving as much as we can afford to drive and for as long and far as we want.
Restricting that idea is bad for business, bad for the economy and bad for our emotional health collectively."
Why if you believed that would you even bother to measure your fuel mileage? The only two conclusions that can be drawn by your statements are: 1. You don’t care about saving fuel so fuel mileage isn’t all that important. 2. You don’t care about dependability so dependability isn’t important.
Don’t worry I realize that much of what you have posted is hyperbole and is meant for effect. I was teasing. :P
The fact that the driver's information center includes average mpg information is nice, because, if it didn't, I would probably not constantly calculate my ghastly mileage. To have this beneficial feature available to me enables me to always know at a glance what my ghastly mileage is. But it's not like I was when I was a kid and every dollar eeked out for a hamburger might not be available for the ghastly tank, know what I mean? That's not to say that I personally want to waste resources and ghastly.
Now, until we're restricted on the amount of ghastly we use, my take on it is go ahead and drive for fun. Just don't steal the ghastly you get. Pay for it yourself, like you should. That's it. Have fun.
Life has enough bumps in the road. Health problems, economic problems, relationship problems, in-law problems, work problems, on and on ad naseum.
I happen to enjoy travelling by car and I am of the opinion that people have a right to take long drives, if they can afford it and have the time. Regardless of what some bozo futures-trader or greedy oil executive causes or imposes.
And do drive responsibly, please. Text message off to the side of the road, dorks.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
That still begs the question, why would you care what mileage the car gets if you believe it doesn't matter how much fuel you use? We might have a legal right to use as much fuel as we can afford but do we have a moral one? If you believe you have both a legal and moral right to drive as much and as far as you like just because you feel like it and can afford it why do you need to know what mileage you are getting?
I take it you are reading your own posts? My questions are based simply on what you have said so far. Because one of the earlier contentions for getting a manual over a automatic earlier was that they got better fuel mileage. But what good does better fuel mileage do if you drive farther simply because you can and want to?
While I can afford to buy gasoline until it gets much more expensive than it is now (and have, in England), I'm not interested in throwing money away. This appears to be a concept you find difficult to understand, but if I can get 28.1 mpg in car B vs. 20.3 in car A, that's a good thing. Now car C (2 or 2.5 litre TDI diesel w/ a six-speed) that delivers 40.2 mpg is what I'd really like, if I could buy one in North America.
The California greenies have made extremely efficient diesels (that have been available in Europe for a decade or so) nearly impossible to acquire on this continent. Go figure.
I can't seem to find a quick link comparing emissions between the US and the EU.
Yikes, boaz47, it's simple. Do you read my posts? I said I have bought a '08 Lancer GTS with a CVT automatic. Not a 5-speed manual that gets better ghastly mileage, that I originally set out to buy in my Lancer GTS. Still with me? Yes, a CVT automatic with paddle shifters. Because ghastly mileage doesn't rule my concerns. Got It yet? Hope so.
Not the more gas-economical 5-speed stick. And I mentioned that I feel that driving as much as I feel like is OK with me, as long as we pay for the ghastly we use, and not steal it. Still following along? Notice that I said I bought the less-economical choice for trannies in my Lancer GTS? And I agree that one should feel free to use ghastly as they need for long trips if they want? Notice a pattern here? What is sticking the wrong way in your craw? If you're intent on rattling my chain you're gonna have to start making sense, cause it doesn't seem to be workin'.
And I look at my driver's information center to see my current ghastly mileage because I can and I find it interesting what know where it stands. Do I hang on that information like pollsters wanting to know who's out ahead in the Gallup Poll now, McCain or Obama? Nope, I don't.
Sheesh, using your logic, boaz47, you would also feel like a person who drives a Hummer or a large GM pick-em-up truck also doesn't care to know how many miles are on his Hummer's engine overall? Using fuel up like Dennis Rodman applies tattoos and not wanting to know how many tats overall he has on his body? Why, that's un-American!
I want to know because it seems everyone in America since the Pinto and Vega days wants to know how much fuel they're using. And, once again, it's cheaper to fly on a jet somewhere than it is to drive. Most people aren't gonna drive long distances for fun and travel on the road, like we used to. This whole thing has been automatically stifled by the dorky futures-traders and the greedy oil barons(right guys, you really do need to be charging over $3.00/gallon still, I know, to recoup exploration costs for the masses :sick: ).
So, no worrying about it, there's automatic safeguards in place.
And, yes, boaz47, I still feel like it's OK to go on long driving trips on vacation if we feel like it. It's a privilege of ours. like getting our driver's license. Until a politico lashes out at us all and mandates a limit on individual fuel use, we're free to ride.
I'm gonna put some Foghat Live II on the platter and go see the Grand Canyon, then head up north to my homeland, and see my relatives in Seattle.
Go for it! :P
Just kidding...I'll probably fly over there.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As long as you see both types of useage as a right you are consistent. And as long as you conceed that if you can use as much fuel as you like there is nothing wrong with everyone jumping in their Hummer to commute.
While your post was a slight back pedal earlier it sounded like you were in total agreement with cdnpinhead when he said:
Well, I do weekend drives several times a year and often extend business trips a day or two on one end or the other, just "to burn gas for two or three days, just because". . . I like to. And, yeah, I can. Anyone who doesn't like it can stuff it.
That sounds just a bit feckless to me but I am trying not to judge. And I won't be texting in my car till they have a voice command for texting.
The only thing I was pointing out was some have suggested that manuals had a major fuel useage advantage and I had to question how that was relevant to anyone who drove as far and as often as they felt like?
Voice commands for texting? Wouldn't it just be easier to make a phone call?
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Not at all. Unlike a kid who sends text messages just to kill time we adults text because you can't always get the person you want to get in touch with at the time you need to. So you type a text and send it and whenever that person is available the message goes through. You only need a few seconds to either send or receive a text so if you are going in or out or an area with questionable reception it still works.
An example: You know of an accident on the 101N, Hollywood freeway in Downtown LA. You get home and it is 3:30 PM. You know you have a friend that will be leaving work at 4 PM and he gets no reception in his building or area during the day. You can wait till 4 and try to catch them before they get in the car and tell them to take another route or you can send a text and it will be delivered as soon as that friend walks out into an area where he gets even one bar.
It is a great tool when used properly. I use it most when I have friends over seas. I can text them even if it is midnight where they are. They will receive it when they get up and only pay the texting charge as opposed to 10 buck a minute to talk.
And no I don't try to text while driving.
Well it might come down to how painful the choice made was, or it might come down to best value. So, for instance, I insist on wearing Levi 501 jeans, however I also will try to buy them at the best possible price, or, I enjoy driving down to Cape May, and have not changed how often I do so, however $2.00 a gallon is still different from $4.00. I'm lucky (or foolish) enough that my choices are not proscribed. In my case, economy was not a factor with this particular manual tranny, though it might be with another vehicle, bought for another purpose.
In addition it is inconsistent to complain about SUVs and Full size pickup trucks with their automatic transmissions being "un-necessary and wasteful if you indeed believed we had a right to drive just for the pleasure of driving and because we as individuals can afford it.
My origional contention was that the weekend family drive has fallen out of favor due to the cost of fuel and how using fuel just because has become politically incorrect.
I just wonder if the post that included the idea that they drove as many miles as they wanted and burning just as much fuel as they wanted could be supported as being responsible in view of how much foreign oil we import today?
I wonder how such a philosophy would apply if every driver felt the same?
But I should appoligise to cdnpinhead and Iluve for injecting this into this topic. The future of the manual will be effected by the type of vehicles we will have offered to us far more than what we might prefer. As an example if Nippon wanted the new 5 door Yaris he has posted about in the small car forum his only option is a automatic. Toyota doesn't seem to feel a manual is necessary at this time for this car.
My origional contention was that the weekend family drive has fallen out of favor due to the cost of fuel and how using fuel just because has become politically incorrect.
I just wonder if the post that included the idea that they drove as many miles as they wanted and burning just as much fuel as they wanted could be supported as being responsible in view of how much foreign oil we import today?
I wonder how such a philosophy would apply if every driver felt the same?
As much as it pains me to say this
There is often an inherent hypocrisy in attempting to balance the enjoyment of an activity with the social responsibility... and there is also a blindness when I sit in my overpowered V8 car and scoff at the guy driving the V8 pickup because the bed is so clean... I do believe that a shift is happening, slowed somewhat by the retreat (temporary?) in the price of gas. My concern though, is that much of the shift has been for economic, rather than "societal good" reasons; we care about "foreign oil" because it is expensive, and because "they" could always jack the price, we care about more economical vehicles because they are cheaper to run, not because we REALLY believe the planet is in peril etc.
I also want 30 MPG city, 80 MPG Hwy.
'87 Mustang
If this guy can do it, why can't any of the global manufactures???
I know it's a stretch but I am sure we are advanced enough to get this done.
Regards,
OW
In my haste, I overlooked this phrase in your post. I concur. Are you a SoCal person? I should know by now, but don't. I travel quite a bit, so maybe we can make it happen.
As far as being stoned by a tree hugger, I at least look responsible as I tootle about in my TSX (with a 6-speed manual I might add) getting a mixed driving MPG number a little over 28. My previous (as yet unsold) vehicle did 20 around town on a good tank and 18-19 most of the time, so I'm not completely oblivious to the conservation mantra.
I do feel, however, that the market tends to make it work out. Those who can afford it will do what they prefer (a distinct minority). Those who can't will make the adjustment -- witness the overall reduction in fuel demand earlier this year.
Either way, you're on for the cup of coffee, if we can get the logistics worked out.
However as far as manual transmissions go I believe we may have the most hybrids of any state. The hybrid has become the darling of the PC in this state and so far they simply aren't coming with manuals.
It is that type of future view I wonder about when I look at the future of manuals.
Let me know if you are ever down where I might be and I'll buy.
Kind of like Ford's SYNC on a 14,000 Focus?
Anyhow, no, it is not offensive what you are bringing up in this forum and I have willingly participated in it. I didn't have to, so everything's OK.
I was serious when I say go and enjoy your trips in your vehicles with ICE, hybrid, or whatever you drive. If you can afford the ghastly and you have the extra time car travelling entails, I still say go for it. Once again, the current economic climate strings this one out to the point that there won't be too much pull on the system and too much usage, the prices are high and for whatever good reason(India, China and Russian increased demand, Hurricane Ike, Governor Palin blowing her nose at just the right time, they don't need a valid reason, they've already got a playbook loaded with every luxurious reason they could ever need to continue overcharging us for ghastly) they are staying artificially high. Boy, they never do that to us, do they?
If memory serves me, the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with the 5-speed manual gets 22 city and 31 highway mpg. The '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with the automatic CVT tranny gets 21 city and 31 highway mpg. So, 1 mpg less in the city and that's all. Also, I got on a 209 mile one way trip to Phoenix on Monday, 35 mpg on I-10, going over to Phoenix. I got about 31 mpg highway on the way back, a lot more slight inclines up and hills to go up and over, starting south of Tucson and continuing on in to Willcox, AZ. So I'm besting the window sticker estimates for mpg in my Lancer GTS with the automatic transmission. Not much to complain about with this non-manual setup I've got, eh?
Nope, I say take an old-fashioned vacation on the road and take your time, read the signs by the side of the road and learn about the area you're travelling through. I love to edumacate myself like that on vacations, oh yes I do.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
There's no way that's verified.
I bet he's only taking in to account the 15% gas part, and ignoring the fact that he's burning 85% ethanol.
The number just don't add up.
Ethanol has higher octane so the extra power is believable, but 80mpg is not, because you actually lose mileage.
That latest and greatest answer to the question of how to make an automatic that is as good as a manual (which is of course, impossible, hence all the botched tries ;-)) still seems to be lacking....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)