Mystery car pix

texases

Chrysler bought Simca at some point, didn't they?

Mr_Shiftright

Chrysler bought Simca in nibbles over the years, eventually having a controlling interest before Chrysler Europe collapsed in 1977. I think Peugeot bought the turkey carcass after that. Ford and Fiat also owned pieces of Simca now and then.

magnette

berri said:

I knew a guy in college that drove a Hillman, but it was British I believe. At least it had electrical issues like things shorting out (Lucas anyone?). Weren't Simca's French? I'm not sure, but I think maybe Chrysler Plymouth dealers sold Simca's for awhile and might have even badge shared one of their products in the sixties? Maybe that was Hillman though? Well, all I know for sure is that Buick handled Opel and Pontiac had Vauxhall for awhile back in late 50's/early 60's Chicagoland. Don't recall ever seeing any British Ford's growing up back then in the Chicago area though. But the mind does start to age...

I think our Hillman Avenger was your Plymouth Cricket in the early 70's...

grahampeters

G'day

Tracing the ownership history of European car brands always reminds me of those complex hand drawn charts showing the changing membership of 1970's bands.

Simca was originally founded by Fiat in 1934, acquired Ford's French operations along the way and then was progressively bought up by Chrysler from the 1960's. By about 1970, it was wholly owned by Chrysler Europe which in turn divested it to Peugeot Ctroen PSA in 1978. The Talbot brand also comes in somehow there as Peugeot continued to sell some models under the Simca Talbot brand then just Talbot. The last gasp was the Peugeot 309, which was still on sale when I went the UK in 1990. At the time, this seemed odd as the number series was out of line with other Peugeot models and the whole feel of the car, seemed dramatically different from other Peugeot of that era - it sot of felt like being introduced to the distant cousin. At this time, there was the lovely Peugeot 205 and the larger, and also lovely 405 in mainstream supply, but the 309 just felt "wrong".

There was an odd little sidelight to the later Simca era that resulted in a mid size Australian car. As part of Chrysler Europe, Simca developed the Chrysler 180 in the early 1970s. A plan was developed to ship body-shells to Australia where the Australian Chrysler operation would fit engines, including the Hemi 6 which was a sort of highly successful Australian derived orphan child of the US Chrysler Hemi engine. They were then sold as Chrysler Centuras. Unfortunately the French were testing Atomic bombs in the Pacific at the time, leading to union bans on the importation of French products, so a vast shipment of body-shells sat on the wharves in Adelaide, pre-rusting for about two years, before they eventually made it to the Chrysler Australia assembly plant.

The installation of the Hemi engine required a longer nose and upset weight distribution so the Australian version had a brake proportioning valve.

Another oddity was that the US sourced engine and other components had imperial nut sizes, but the French sourced body, Metric.

They were never much loved here.

Cheers

Graham

berri

I'm not sure, but wasn't the old British Rootes group another one of these complicated stories?

texases

One more Simca/Chrysler link. The Omni/Horizon were based on the Simca Horizon. Always looked like a close copy of the 1st gen Golf/Rabbit to me.

iluvmysephia1

There's one of these in a nationwide older car publication now selling for a tad under $12,000. Nice. Sometimes it's nice ta see some of the old chrome bumpers, eh?

bhill2

iluvmysephia1 said:

There's one of these in a nationwide older car publication now selling for a tad under $12,000. Nice. Sometimes it's nice ta see some of the old chrome bumpers, eh?

Methinks it is a Datsun 2000 (from the badge below the 'Datsun' one on the front fender. I don't think I've ever seen one with dog dish hubcaps before.

Michaell

bhill2 said:

There's one of these in a nationwide older car publication now selling for a tad under $12,000. Nice. Sometimes it's nice ta see some of the old chrome bumpers, eh?

Methinks it is a Datsun 2000 (from the badge below the 'Datsun' one on the front fender. I don't think I've ever seen one with dog dish hubcaps before.

My uncle owned one of these at one time when I was a kid. Never got a ride in it, sadly. 

iluvmysephia1

I am just starting to get a crush on this car so I've done little research. Apparently there's the numbers 1600 and 2000 for the same bodystyle, plus there's the name 'Fairlady' as well. I have a good amount of respect for Datsun then Nissan as a carmaker from the job they did with the Datsun 510. That little pup would also be a fine little car to have if it has been looked after well through the years.

Datsun engineers actually had a little 'ole carmaker from Germany named Porsche in mind when they built the 510. Wanted to make a Japanese car that could rock and roll with the big boys. No, it's true. Jay Leno had one at his shop for a test drive and gave it a favorable review. It's the superb handling combined with the quick acceleration from the powertrain that has them amiable. Not a Bugatti by any stretch, but, well, you know.

But for a little tinkertoy the 1600-2000 Fairlady has caught my eye away from a clear white 1967 VW Bug. For the time being, anyway.

slorenzen

Years ago I know a guy that raced the 1600 in it's class.

He said the 2000 was a LOT more powerful, but they had a bad habit of breaking timing chains.

Interference engine.

Bad juju.

He said the 1600(pushrod) was not as fast, but far less troublesome.

Now, drop a small block Chevy in that thing...

iluvmysephia1

Now, drop a small block Chevy in that thing...

Just like putting a 289 V8 in a Mustang, right?

bhill2

iluvmysephia1 said:

Now, drop a small block Chevy in that thing...

Just like putting a 289 V8 in a Mustang, right?

Or like putting a 260 V8 in a Sunbeam Alpine.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a pretty tiny car. Not sure a V8 would fit without some pots sticking out of the hood.

iluvmysephia1

Or like putting a 260 V8 in a Sunbeam Alpine.

Good example! I just can't see a V8 in a Datsun 1600/2000 at all.

berri

I think the 1600 came with a 4 speed manual, while the 2000 had a 5 speed. Unfortunately, early Japanese cars tended to have the tin worm of a 57 Plymouth or Ford.

iluvmysephia1

Unfortunately, early Japanese cars tended to have the tin worm of a 57 Plymouth or Ford.

Come again? They rusted prematurely?

berri

Rust can be an issue on 60's and early 70's Japanese imports. Datsun and the early Z car pop right up on that topic. But it was a common sight on early Asian metal in the Midwest and northeast. Don't know if it was the result of thin sheet metal or more likely they hadn't perfected rustproofing yet.

kyfdx

berri said:

Rust can be an issue on 60's and early 70's Japanese imports. Datsun and the early Z car pop right up on that topic. But it was a common sight on early Asian metal in the Midwest and northeast. Don't know if it was the result of thin sheet metal or more likely they hadn't perfected rustproofing yet.

That persisted on most Japanese cars through the '80s.

stickguy

Early Hondas in salt country rusted something fierce.

andys120

That's a '66 Elva Courier. They could be had as a road-going sports car but most were setup up to compete in the SCA E-Production Sports class were they did quite well. A number of top drivers of the era, including Mark Donohue got their start racing Couriers.

stever

And Subarus. My '82 Tercel held up pretty well while friends with Subies had to duck tape the fenders to cover the holes. And we really didn't have much salt up north compared to, say, Michigan.

berri

Don't forget all those rusted out Datsun B210's - but they kept on driving despite it.

kyfdx

My '82 Accord hatch had it pretty bad... but, I kept it 12 years..

Had co-workers with early 4Runners and Toyo 4WD pickups.. Mostly, they were just driving around with a frame and roof.. (of course, they would run forever).

fintail

Even here in the PNW. Slower that most places, but the rust would creep up, especially if the car lived outside. With neglect, once 10-15 years old, many Japanese cars of that era were dissolving here. The engines would keep going strong, but the bodies would slowly evaporate.

iluvmysephia1 said:

Unfortunately, early Japanese cars tended to have the tin worm of a 57 Plymouth or Ford.

Come again? They rusted prematurely?

iluvmysephia1

Wow - if I ever got a wild enough hair and wanted ta pursue a 60-something Datsun 1600/2000, I'd want to do a thorough rust-check. I'm in SW Kansas now, Midwest but not really part of the nasty, snowy and icy salted roads. Need one from a rust-free zone of some sort.

The iluvmysephia1 traveling Allied Healthcare show has hit Kansas now! Mrs.iluvmysephia1 and I went and saw Boston and Blue Oyster Cult Saturday night in Dodge City. Both bands still have it goin' on, rockers. Apparently Dennis Hopper lived here as a baby and moved away when he was about 5 years old. They have a statue of him over by the Santa Fe train depot. All he really remembered of Dodge City were the trains going through.

Dodge City, KS, boasts the world's largest cattle slaughterhouse, National Beef.

berri

Isn't Dodge City where the phrase "get out of Dodge" came from? Sounds like some good hard rockin' !

fintail

In KS I'd be just as concerned about sun damage as rust. Old Japanese interiors decomposed at an astonishing pace, and a lot of those pieces are unobtanium.

Were the dust, heat, and gangs of ML too much?

iluvmysephia1 said:

Wow - if I ever got a wild enough hair and wanted ta pursue a 60-something Datsun 1600/2000, I'd want to do a thorough rust-check. I'm in SW Kansas now, Midwest but not really part of the nasty, snowy and icy salted roads. Need one from a rust-free zone of some sort.

The iluvmysephia1 traveling Allied Healthcare show has hit Kansas now! Mrs.iluvmysephia1 and I went and saw Boston and Blue Oyster Cult Saturday night in Dodge City. Both bands still have it goin' on, rockers. Apparently Dennis Hopper lived here as a baby and moved away when he was about 5 years old. They have a statue of him over by the Santa Fe train depot. All he really remembered of Dodge City were the trains going through.

Dodge City, KS, boasts the world's largest cattle slaughterhouse, National Beef.

stever

I wondered about your sig line the other day @iluvmysephia1. The way y'all are moving around, Las Cruces may be the second go-round for ya'll's New Mexico pit stop.

andys120

Back on topic>

bhill2

andys120 said:

Back on topic>

Jag. Mark Vii or so (?).

Mr_Shiftright

I call them "Blivets". Awful cars. However if it's a Mark IX you can loot them for parts for the XK 150s (engines, disk brakes, etc).

andys120

It's a 1960 Jaguar Mk. XI (11).

andys120

berri

Nice 62 Ford. I recall that color being kind of popular come the 64 full size cars, but not as much before, so this picture kind of surprised me.

Mr_Shiftright

???No such model as far as I know. If it's a 1960, it's a Mark IX.

andys120 said:

It's a 1960 Jaguar Mk. XI (11).

lostwrench1

1962 Ford Galaxie 500XL. (With Thunderbird engine).

bhill2

Mr_Shiftright said:

???No such model as far as I know. If it's a 1960, it's a Mark IX.

andys120 said:

It's a 1960 Jaguar Mk. XI (11).

And the Mark X was radically redesigned.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

???No such model as far as I know. If it's a 1960, it's a Mark IX.

andys120 said:

It's a 1960 Jaguar Mk. XI (11).

Doh! That's what I get for going by the caption. I figured if it was on the internet it must be true!

andys120

stever

I had trouble seeing your pic - here's a screenshot from the link.

lostwrench1

1950 Chevy
1951 Ford
1955 Dodge
1954 Chevy wagon

Mr_Shiftright

Love the 50s "tin wagons". It's one of the few 46-54 era types that I would consider buying and restoring.

andys120

Here's another "tin wagon" from the same era>

lostwrench1

1970/71 GTO.

berri

I'm guessing that yellow beast is a Rambler from the first half of the 50's, probably 54 or 55?

andys120

Good guess Berri, it's a 1953 sedan delivery version of the Nash Rambler known as the Greenbrier. IIRC that name was later used by Chevy a decade later for their Corvair based vans.

andys120

stickguy

Is that a nissan patrol?

andys120

stickguy said:

Is that a nissan patrol?

Yup, to be exact it's a 1977 Nissan Patrol LG60.

You know it's a mystery to me why Nissan or Toyota gave up on building a direct competitor to the hot-selling Wrangler. Surely there are many who would appreciate the improvement in reliability.