Mystery car pix

magnette

G'day Graham

You are right on this one - it is from South America. Also with the US connection. I'm sorry it is such a small picture.

fintail

The basis for that odd mystery car kind of looks like a Fiat 2300 with a nose job, but I don't know about the C-pillar width.

magnette

It isn't based on a European model - in fact it is a development of one from the US.

lostwrench1

Ahaa!
Found it.
Willys Aero - Brazil.

andys120

magnette said:

It isn't based on a European model - in fact it is a development of one from the US.

Aha! That was the clue I needed, it's a Brazilian-made Willys Aero, this version was made and sold from 1960-71. According to Wikipedia Brooks Stevens did the design work. He was known for his designs at Studebaker (GT Hawk) and Jeep (Grand Wagoneer).

if you ever need a good picture of a particular model, Wikipedia is a good source.

magnette

Well done Andy - and that is better than the one I found.....

andys120

I saw one today! it is perhaps the second or third time I've ever seen one.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, yes. A stunning example of bad British postwar design.

bhill2

magnette said:

Well done Andy - and that is better than the one I found.....

Yeah, Andy. The picture you posted makes me reconsider my "load of ugly" remark. Good job.

magnette

The registration BMS 154 was issued in Stirling, Scotland, between June 1947 and March 1948.

andys120

magnette said:

The registration BMS 154 was issued in Stirling, Scotland, between June 1947 and March 1948.

Good lord! You can tell all that from six characters? Care to elaborate.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a Triumph 1800 roadster and if I never see one again, that'd be fine.

texases

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's a Triumph 1800 roadster and if I never see one again, that'd be fine.

You're not a fan of the "Cord look"?

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's a Triumph 1800 roadster and if I never see one again, that'd be fine.

I kind of like it.

Mr_Shiftright

You're allowed to.

RE: "The Cord Look"--- in car design, there's a fine line between "got it" and "missed it", and this Triumph missed it. It is bulbous, high-shouldered and with very awkward headlamp placement----everything the Cord is not.

texases

I agree, the Triumph is overdone and outdated. Thought the fenders were a good match, though (to a 1930s design)...

fintail

1949 British car = 1936 American car, right?

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's a Triumph 1800 roadster and if I never see one again, that'd be fine.

True enough but it was a treat to see such a rare bird on a fine Indian Summer day. It's hard to believe that old crock was Triumph's offering when Jaguar was on the cusp of introducing the XK-120.

magnette

andys120 said:

magnette said:

The registration BMS 154 was issued in Stirling, Scotland, between June 1947 and March 1948.

Good lord! You can tell all that from six characters? Care to elaborate.

Well - I've got a book. The plates in UK were all of one pattern until 2001 really and basically the one shows the two letter code MS which is from Stirling in Scotland - the letter ahead of it is serial and was issued for a specific period - there is a list - and after they reached 999 they went on to the next code.
Originally in December 1903 the county of Stirling was given a code for locally registered cars - it was MS - and they issued plates for cars, motorbikes lorries etc from MS 1 through to MS 9999 which they reached in November 1930 - as they had then used all those codes they were given a further letter code - which was WG - which they used from WG 1 to 9999 and that took them to 1943. (It was two letters and up to four numerals)
Then they went to the next series (there were no spare two letter codes by then as places like London had gone through theirs at such a rate that the two letters were pretty much all allocated by 1933.
Anyway, Stirling ran out of two letter codes in 1943 and issued AMS 1 then but don't reach 999 until September 1946. (with three letters they only went to 999) The next code would have been AWG 1 to 999 which was used up by June 1947. Hence BMS came along.
Stirling never issued huge numbers and only got to XWG 1-999 by 1964 when we started getting seven character codes (i.e. AMS 999 B with the last B showing the year - 1964-) so never reversed their plates (i.e. 1 - 999 AMS etc..) but most councils in busy parts of Britain ran though both series - indeed some even reversed their original two or even one code letter series so in Hertford they had AR1-9999 in 1903 for a few years, went through a whole load of other two letter codes by 1934 and then through their two letter codes with a third letter by 1956, when they reversed it all, so AAR 1 came in 1934, but 1 AAR was in 1956...
They even reissued the two letter codes in 1959-63 (hence 1-9999AR) before moving to year letters (B ) in1964... i.e. AAR 123 B...

People knew which letters were their local ones in more rural parts of Britain and in smaller towns - I grew up in South Wales and our codes were NY, TG and TX for Glamorgan, with Cardiff nearby having BO, KG and UH - you just knew them as local codes...

Probably a bit too much elaboration but there is a system to it - although loads of plates have switched cars of course ( especially when people didn't want to advertise they didn't have a new car any more) so it is less reliable now...

Michaell

magnette said:

andys120 said:

magnette said:

The registration BMS 154 was issued in Stirling, Scotland, between June 1947 and March 1948.

Good lord! You can tell all that from six characters? Care to elaborate.

Well - I've got a book. The plates in UK were all of one pattern until 2001 really and basically the one shows the two letter code MS which is from Stirling in Scotland - the letter ahead of it is serial and was issued for a specific period - there is a list - and after they reached 999 they went on to the next code.
Originally in December 1903 the county of Stirling was given a code for locally registered cars - it was MS - and they issued plates for cars, motorbikes lorries etc from MS 1 through to MS 9999 which they reached in November 1930 - as they had then used all those codes they were given a further letter code - which was WG - which they used from WG 1 to 9999 and that took them to 1943. (It was two letters and up to four numerals)
Then they went to the next series (there were no spare two letter codes by then as places like London had gone through theirs at such a rate that the two letters were pretty much all allocated by 1933.
Anyway, Stirling ran out of two letter codes in 1943 and issued AMS 1 then but don't reach 999 until September 1946. (with three letters they only went to 999) The next code would have been AWG 1 to 999 which was used up by June 1947. Hence BMS came along.
Stirling never issued huge numbers and only got to XWG 1-999 by 1964 when we started getting seven character codes (i.e. AMS 999 B with the last B showing the year - 1964-) so never reversed their plates (i.e. 1 - 999 AMS etc..) but most councils in busy parts of Britain ran though both series - indeed some even reversed their original two or even one code letter series so in Hertford they had AR1-9999 in 1903 for a few years, went through a whole load of other two letter codes by 1934 and then through their two letter codes with a third letter by 1956, when they reversed it all, so AAR 1 came in 1934, but 1 AAR was in 1956...
They even reissued the two letter codes in 1959-63 (hence 1-9999AR) before moving to year letters (B ) in1964... i.e. AAR 123 B...

People knew which letters were their local ones in more rural parts of Britain and in smaller towns - I grew up in South Wales and our codes were NY, TG and TX for Glamorgan, with Cardiff nearby having BO, KG and UH - you just knew them as local codes...

Probably a bit too much elaboration but there is a system to it - although loads of plates have switched cars of course ( especially when people didn't want to advertise they didn't have a new car any more) so it is less reliable now...

I knew some of this.

Colorado used to do the same thing. Plates are issues by the county government, and you could tell which county based on the lettering.

For example, the letter "K" at the beginning of the plate code meant the plate was issued in El Paso County (city of Colorado Springs, mainly).

stickguy

NY used to code by county too. I only knew this because my Dad was a volunteer fireman, and belonged to Excelsior FD. Well, a county (I think Essex?) used the letters EX to start their plates, so the fire department worked out a way to get their cars registered in that county, so they could have plates that said EX for Excelsior.

andys120

New York State had a similar system back in the 60s. The letters on the plate indicated which county the car was originally registered in. I had YWF-123 and the Y was for Nassau County. Some of the ones I can remember are AX-Alleghany County, TS-Stueben County, QQ-Queens County and ES-Erie County. Most counties had more than one identifier.

andys120

magnette

Yes, there are a lot of similar systems around the world -i Germany the first letter or two or three letters denotes where the vehicle was registered - B for Berlin, HH for Hamburg, etc...

But our plates can be registered on the car forever - once on there unless someone chooses to change for a personalised plate or the car is written off, then the plate stays with it- even if you move from Glasgow to London ...

andys120

stickguy

I now that is a Chrysler 300 letter car. I will guess a 1959 C?

lostwrench1

1961 Chrysler 300G.

andys120

lostwrench1 said:

1961 Chrysler 300G.

Yup, not the prettiest of the "letter" 300s IMO.

magnette

Andy, your blue sports car is a Swallow Doretti. They made about 250 of these in 1954/5 using running gear from the contemporary Triumph TR2.

Interestingly the manufacturer was the Swallow Coachbuilding Co which had originally been part of Swallow Sidecars - the company that was the foundation for SS cars, later Jaguar.

kyfdx

andys120 said:

lostwrench1 said:

1961 Chrysler 300G.

Yup, not the prettiest of the "letter" 300s IMO.

Ditto

andys120

texases

1962 Ford Consul Capri? Must have been an export version (LHD).

Mr_Shiftright

magnette said:

Andy, your blue sports car is a Swallow Doretti. They made about 250 of these in 1954/5 using running gear from the contemporary Triumph TR2.

Interestingly the manufacturer was the Swallow Coachbuilding Co which had originally been part of Swallow Sidecars - the company that was the foundation for SS cars, later Jaguar.

How funny. I just saw that car yesterday. Same one.

andys120

texases said:

1962 Ford Consul Capri? Must have been an export version (LHD).

Yep. it's from Sweden.

Mr_Shiftright

Extra Points for exact make and model name

bhill2

Well, it's a Ferrari Dino. Based on the well-used look I will say a 206GT but I am guessing.

stickguy

Isn't it technically just a Dino? Or a Fiat Dino? But not actually branded as a Ferrari.

bhill2

IIRC the Ferrari name wasn't on it (something about only 12-cylinder models bearing that name) but Ferrari made it. Is that right?

magnette

Well, here they sold it as a Ferrari despite the name - although there wasn't a Ferrari badge on it..

I don't know about the 206 - not sure it had a removable roof option- but if it is the more common 246 then I think the model name was Dino 246S for this version.

andys120

IIRC it would have been sold here (ca. 1972-4) as a Dino 246GT Spider.

Like Magnette I don't think there was a Spider version of the 206.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, a 246 GT"S" Dino Spyder would be the correct nomenclature, and yes, it is a very well-used car in this photo. This one seems to have the "chairs and flairs" option, making it even more valuable. Someone will spend a bundle restoring this car. Me, personally, I'd drive it just as it is.

Mr_Shiftright

Don't unwrap before Christmas:

stickguy

isn't plastic really bad to put over cars?

Jag in front. And I like the Alfa behind it.

texases

XK-140, Giulietta Spider?

andys120

Yup, a plastic cover will seal in moisture and ruin the finish on a car.

The blue car is a late 50s Jaguar XK-150, perhaps the least desirable of the XK series. OTOH the white Alfa is the hugely desirable Giulietta Spider from the same era. Let's hope that plastic comes off soon.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

Yup, a plastic cover will seal in moisture and ruin the finish on a car.

The blue car is a late 50s Jaguar XK-150, perhaps the least desirable of the XK series. OTOH the white Alfa is the hugely desirable Giulietta Spider from the same era. Let's hope that plastic comes off soon.

Yeah, just temporary dust cover in a pretty cozy warehouse in California, so I don't see any longterm damage being done.

Yes it's a XK-150. It's about neck and neck on value with the XK140, these days. The model with the 3.8 engine adds extra desirability. I'm sure some Jaguar diehards of the era were appalled at the idea of roll up windows!

fintail

I spot a couple of MB R107s in the plastic wrap garage - a pretty blue early car next to the Dino, and I am pretty sure that's one in front of the Alfa (looks brown). Must be a California thing.

Mr_Shiftright

I walked right over them---not my favorite car the W107.

Here's a tougher one:

fintail

I am thinking Maserati 3500 GT, but I am not certain about that.

The 107s are probably the least valuable cars in that storage area.