Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

Both the customers and the dealerships are afraid of leaving an extra nickel on the table.

That is so true and I was in that position when I bought the Genny from the dealer in Ohio in March. I’m pretty sure I told this part of the deal but I’ll repeat it since every buyer seems to dread it so much.

Like I said the dealer wouldn’t budge on his internet price for the Genny and why should he, it was a darn good price. But I wanted more for my ’06 Sonata LX that I was going to trade (with 12,200 miles on it when we showed up at the dealership) and why not? Other than needing a passenger side mirror that ‘you know who’ whacked when the car was still an infant (not even three months old) that car was as perfect as any car on a dealers showroom floor.

The dealer told me via phone that he’d give me an even $9K for it IF it was as good as I described it. I told him that was a good starting price and gave him a CC deposit to hold the Genny. We’re now at the table after the test drive and he said something like, “are you ready to buy” and I said, “I want more for my car than $9K, I want $9600”. I don’t want to bore everyone with every word but he goes off to the desk with my number. I’m thinking he‘s going to come back with 93/94 TOPS and I’m going to jump on that offer. He comes back and says, “will $9600 do the deal”? I said, “yes”. He then said, “lets write it up”, then goes off to get something. I look over at Son #1 and he has this strange look on his face :surprise: (so did his mother) and I said, “I think I just left some money on the table” and he said, “it couldn’t have been much”.

How could I argue with that? The guy gave me my price.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

I would have gone to $28k just because the sales manager is such an a--hole. Best of luck on the purchase.

Richard

verdugo

The choice is between 2 and the salesman shows you how the more expensive shirt is no iron, saving you the time effort and expense of the dry cleaner.

The REALLY good salesmen will convince you girls will find you more attractive in the more expensive shirt :P

oldfarmer50

"...We have to unhook the batteries..."

I understand that but why do you have to set the seats all the way forward? When I @ 6'2" sit down in a car and the back of my head slams into the roof I lose any desire to buy said car. :sick:

Put the seat down and back before you unhook the power.

oldfarmer50

"...check this out and let me know..."

Sorry richard64, when I first saw that movie I was waiting for the shower scene. Everything else was kind of a blur. :surprise:

Were there cars in that movie?

oldfarmer50

"...The car probably listed new for around $39K..."

That's exactly the price of the one I saw at the auto show this weekend.

isellhondas

I agree. I guess the guys who set up the show are short little guys!

boomchek

Very correct Richard. Some people that earn high salary would lose more money by researching and wasting time oin car price negotiations.

If one steps away from the office to save even $2000 on a car purchase but may lose out to a $5k sale/bid/contract because of it, then it's not worth for them to do so.

It reminds me of a seasoned sales guy that told us rookies in the biz about the $500 lunch. If you're a salesperson on the floor and you go out to pick up your lunch, you may lose out on a deal with $500 comission, hence the lunch cost you $500. So it's better to either pack lunch of have it delivered. Even if you pay an extra $5 for delivery but get that sale, you're already ahead.

jipster

I agree. I guess the guys who set up the show are short little guys!

Nooooo, that's not why they move the seats all the way up... because the show setter people are short! They move the front seats up to make the back seat area look bigger than it is with tons of leg room. I'm surprised they didn't teach you that little trick at Honda. :surprise: :P

boomchek

Thanks for the building value explanation. I'm a little behind in posts today. :shades:

houdini1

Thanks guys for all your comments. We picked the car up and everything went as smooth as silk. The rude SM shook hands when we first came in and we never saw him again, thankfully.

The whole thing took about 1 and 1/2 hours and all the folks we dealt with could not have been nicer. Half hearted attempt at selling a couple of extras, which we declined. All in all, very pleased with the car and the transaction.

jmonroe

Thanks guys for all your comments.

No...Thank you for the sales tale.

That makes about 5 so far this year and the year ain't even over yet. :surprise:

jmonroe

isellhondas

Ah...no.

If you saw the "guys" who set up most of the show cars, you would know what I'm talking about.

driver100

Richard, she did trade in a 1956 for a 1957 Ford. The 57 seems to have been for sale awhile ago:

On the run after having embezzled $40,000 from her employer, Marion Crane (Janet Leigh) hits the road and flees. Noting a highway patrol officer that has his sights set firmly on her, the paranoid crook decides to swap her car at a dealership, trading her 1956 Ford Mainline for a more modern 1957 Ford Custom 300. The change maintains the attention of the intrigued cop, and it’s only when bad weather forces Marion to spend the night at a motel (not the best move) that she earns some breathing space.

For more interesting info go to:
Psyco Goofs

AND

57 Ford from Psyco

jipster

Car Care: The Truth About Do-It-Yourself Oil Changes
Friends don’t let friends change their own oil.

The oil change used to be the classic do-it-yourself Saturday activity to save a few bucks on auto maintenance. There are many reasons, however, why this seemingly “easy” procedure is best left to pros.



If you’re an experienced do-it-yourselfer with a convenient garage setup and time on your hands, you might save a few dollars changing your vehicle’s oil. For most car owners, changing their own oil can be a very messy lesson in false economy – not to mention possible environmental consequences. Many a would-be DIY-er has been left splashed in the face with hot, dirty motor oil, experienced burned or bruised fingers and even a damaged engine

I got this today from my GM dealership. I thought it was amusing. Save "only" 2 bucks, and avoid hot scalding motor oil on your face, by letting your dealership change your oil. :P

graphicguy

jipster....well, they wouldn't be a very good DIY'er if they scalding their own face with hot motor oil. I have busted a few knuckles taking an oil filter off, but that was before they had specific tools for that specific job. Rule #1, let the oil cool just a wee bit before changing it.

I don't change my own oil anymore, anyway. I think it's $40 for my Tahoe (w/coupon), and that includes a tire rotation. I thing it's about the same for my Accord.

DIY=$20, give or take, for oil and filter. And, rotating my tires with an OEM jack and tire iron doesn't appeal......AT ALL!!!!!

j....somebody, somewhere has always said they could have beat my deal on any car I've ever purchased. Maybe, maybe not. All I know is as long as I'm happy with the deal, the dealership, their personnel, that's all that really matters. I assume you feel the same.

nthe

or you could look at it this way, you are $500 better than the price you "thought" you could buy it for. why make this situation harder by playing with the sales guy. Just go buy the car and be happy you're getting a terrific price on it.

fezo

Forgive me but after having been away for a week, and even with checking in here and there on my daughter's laptop down in Florida there's still a good 90 posts to go through....

A few comments - bobst is alive and well. A few months ago we'd been talking about him so I shot him an E-mail to ask where he'd gone. The answer should surprise few here - he retired and thus no longer had endless hours on the Internet to kill.... Well, something like that. He and Mrs. bobst have traded car stories for golf. He says hello to everyone. Sounds like he's enjoying himself.

Nice deal on the Infiniti. i could talk myself into oen of those. Used ones are great deals.

I mostly agree with lr's thought that you don't talk price until you have someone actually interested in buying though I have to say there have been a couple of times i can think of where I was poking in a showroom in gathering information mode and a car caught my eye and I got hit with the "these are going for full retail." The one was a Hyundai Azeera so you know how much truth I assigned to that. The point is the sales woman in this case immediately took me from the possibility of being drawn in back to just looking.

nthe

I sell toyotas, and I don't like toyoguard. some customers do. I have people swear that the extra sound proofing does work. Also the things treated in the toyoguard process are warrantied. Here is something to also remember, the dealership can always find you a car without toyoguard.

Just remember, this is a business, and we are here to make money whether you like it or not.

nthe

"I think you are starting off with a negative if you start at MSRP - I know I better look out for my best interests so my defense system is working at full power. "

MSRP is the "RETAIL" price. nothing wrong with starting there. Of course I am in internet sales, so I start just about everything at or below invoice.

explorerx4

congrats for helping you son acquire his new car.
hopefully he does something nice for you for getting him a better than expected deal and avoiding some acrimonious negotiations.
from the dealer perspective this was a 1 shot deal. i assume you are not going back there for service.
speaking of service, i get free oil changes for life with my fusion.
so every time i get the oil changed, i just made the deal on my car better.

fezo

I sell toyotas, and I don't like toyoguard. some customers do. I have people swear that the extra sound proofing does work.

They think normal Toyotas are too loud? :confuse: That's one quality I don't think of with Toyota.

Somehow this starting at MSRP reminds me of the exchange between Woody Allen and, I believe, Collen Dewhurst in Interiors:

She - "In my family the greatest sin was to raise your voice."

He - "In my family the greatest sin was to pay retail."

oldfarmer50

"...avoid hot scalding motor oil on your face..."

What are people doing, unscrewing the filter with their teeth?

I may start doing my own oil on the Eclipse. I was looking under the car the other day and the filter and drain plug are right within easy reach. The last change at my long time indie guy resulted in a small drip. I think Mitsu might have a drainplug gasket or washer he didn't use.

I got the wife's PT changed today free on a dealer coupon. Can't beat that price.

Walking the lot I see that my dealer has restocked his inventory pretty well. All big stuff like Ram Trucks and big Jeeps. These must be selling well, I see a lot of big Suvs and trucks coming out of Manheim too.

I am also seeing a lot more car carriers on the roads delivering all sorts of new cars to local dealers. Maybe things are turning around.

nthe

Pinstripes, mud guards, auto dim inside mirror, paint and interior guard, mag wheels that looked about like the stock ones but with a $1,200 addon and no credit for the stock wheels, and, as I said previously, installing leather in a cloth interior model.
-----------------------------------------------

actually there is credit built into the price of those alloy wheels. if the port adds alloys to our camry, its like $400. don't you think those alloys cost more than $400? also, many of my customers want a base car, but want leather, so what's wrong with it? as has been stated many, many times, you can get plenty of these cars without the add ons, as most do. but some want these options and accessories. in other areas you don't even have the option.

nthe

They think normal Toyotas are too loud? That's one quality I don't think of with Toyota.

---------------------------

F&I manager just went from a 2008 double cab tacoma ot a 2009. the 08 didn't have the toyoguard and the 09 did and he says he can tell a difference. not saying that toyos are loud, but if you can hear anything from the outside, it can be quieter, right?

jimbres

he retired and thus no longer had endless hours on the Internet to kill....

Makes sense. IIRC, he was a Federal government employee.

Your tax dollars at work.

nthe

but something that people who have a problem with toyoguard need to realize is that you can usually get that stuff for free. the package that list for $699 only invoices for $481. but the port adds their own holdback based on how much they do to the car, so there might be almost $200 in holdback on the toyoguard that the dealership gets. So now that $699 is less than $300.

Or if you have already figured out what you are will to either buy the car for, or offer for the car, just reduce that price by $700 and make the offer.

boomchek

"...avoid hot scalding motor oil on your face..."

What are people doing, unscrewing the filter with their teeth?

Yes, or unscrewing it with their hands, and using the oil to shampoo their hair.

lrguy44

That was slick

snakeweasel

First of all I never said thats all a salesman does. Just thats how they supposedly build value.

Sales people are not magicians. I cannot create an impression of value.

A good salesman should be able to create an impression of value.

snakeweasel

The REALLY good salesmen will convince you girls will find you more attractive in the more expensive shirt

Nope, the really good salesman will convince you that the girls will only find you more attractive with the more expensive shirt and the expensive slacks, jacket, tie, shoes, socks and underwear.

snakeweasel

They move the front seats up to make the back seat area look bigger than it is with tons of leg room.

Here is the back seat of a Jaguar convertible that they had to the Chicago Auto Show back in February. Hate to see it with the seats all the way back. :P

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

jipster

Or if you have already figured out what you are will to either buy the car for, or offer for the car, just reduce that price by $700 and make the offer.

The problem with that is the dealership will drop/reduce the price on one end, and put it somewhere else. Local Hyundai dealer easily agreed to drop the price of a dealer add-on of alarm system, pinstripes, and mud flappers... listed at around $1.800. But, they would not go down very far on the price of their Tucson. So, even if they say they are dropping the price of Toyogard, it costs them something to have it put on, which the customer will end up paying for in some form or another. In the end you'll always end up paying more for dealership pre-installed add-ons than you would a car with only factory equipment ( all things being equal)... nothing is free.

jipster

Ouch, I couldn't fit my widdly piggy toe behind that seat, much less a leg. I guess most people who buy Jag convertibles are past the kid rearing stage.

british_rover

Jag verts have never had any back seat room.

The couple I have sold I had to put my legs in the other side of the car to fit in the back.

verdugo

Walking the lot I see that my dealer has restocked his inventory pretty well. All big stuff like Ram Trucks and big Jeeps.

Went by dealershi today for oil change (coupon for $19). They had a Wrangler Unlimited fully loaded (Rubicon). MSRP $36K. Next to sticker, there was a smaller once that said "Additional mark up $2,000." No fancy wheels, no protection package, nothing. Pure mark up.

I laughed and walked away.

verdugo

pe, the really good salesman will convince you that the girls will only find you more attractive with the more expensive shirt and the expensive slacks, jacket, tie, shoes, socks and underwear.

LOL The baby seal outfit.

lrguy44

Snake, what I was saying is a salesman should not just rattle off features. They must find out what is important to the customer. Value is built in his mind. Same with creating value - I guess by knowing the wants and needs and relating benefits is creating. But you do not build value without relating to the needs of the customer.

snakeweasel

I agree with you on that. I am not saying that a salesman just puts out facts just that s/he has to show some type of value to the buyer rather that value is real or perceived. And I do agree that what one person sees as value is not what another will see.

driver100

MSRP is the "RETAIL" price. nothing wrong with starting there. Of course I am in internet sales, so I start just about everything at or below invoice

Uh uh, MSRP is Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price which means nothing if no one really sells at that price.

You car guys can use it as a guide, but it doesn't mean much if almost know one pays it. In fact, the government would probably go after all the car dealers if they all banned together and only charged MSRP.

I like that dealer that has the prices on the windshield, and charge $400 over cost.
I could live with that. Sounds fair all around. I guess they will make more on the options as well.

british_rover

Ok well my car show story doesn't have anything to do with customers.

Like many car shows most of the factories pulled out of our area car show. We brought all our own cars to the show. We were providing all the cars for two brands, we are the only company that sells those brands that are attending the show, and for the last brand we were going to share space with the other large autogroup that sales that brand in the area.

That was the plan from the very beginning. For years our two stores have worked the auto show together and it has never been a problem but the factory always brought the cars.

So a few days before the show was supposed to start the second store says that they are going to be providing all of the cars for the one brand as they have a special promotion going on. They are going to be giving a TV away and some other stuff and don't want to confuse people.

This obviously makes the owner very upset as he had already spent weeks working with the other store to make sure everything was shared.

Eventually he calmed down but he still wanted to bring one of those models into the show just to poke and prod them.

We brought the one car in plus a few cars for the other two brands we were representing.

Since we had four cars with three different brands pushed into a very tight space we had a lot more traffic. Since I had sold all of those brands new I could answer questions about all of them.

It infuriated the guys in the booth next door to us. They were all giving us the evil eye and it was great. If they had just stuck to the original agreement then there never would have been a problem.

Oh and there was no TV give away on their side. They had a TV set up but there were no entry forms anywhere to be seen.

nyccarguy

I give you lots of credit for working the autoshow. I always tell my 3 year-old that this is somebody else's car and we have to treat it with respect, that means no climbing on the seats & no feet on the seats. You should have seen how exceptionally well behaved he was at our local PORSCHE dealer for the launch of the new Panamera (one Panamera had a $96K MSRP & the other had a $118K MSRP!)

roadburner

I always tell my 3 year-old that this is somebody else's car and we have to treat it with respect, that means no climbing on the seats & no feet on the seats.

We taught our son the same thing. When he was about 4 years old I'd take him to our BMW dealer and he would go to the kiosk with the touch screen and "build" new Bimmers to order. I think he actually helped close a couple of deals...

dino001

Fair enough and that would probably be what I would do if I were actually buying. What really ticked me off though was that at the time the Toyocrap was installed on EVERY SINGLE CAR at EVERY SINGLE DEALERSHIP in my area (I checked Toyota website - they have a really good inventory search tool). Of course also coincidently EVERY SINGLE DEALER has exactly the same "doc/whatever" fee of, IIRC, $599 or something like that. It was the same with Scions. Actually Scions are much worse because they are "no haggle", which means that for priviledge of buying a Scion in Tampa you had to shell out about $1000-$1500 over sticker, depending if it is Toyocrap1, Toyocrap2, or Toyocrap3 package.

More than anything, it is simply disapointing. Just shows that mentality of treating customers like marks rather than true assets is alive and well. I may understand why in this case (good product in good demand - at least until recently), but then don't act surprised and hurt when people can't wait to turn tables on you and demand unreasonable discounts just because the market tanked. At that point I'm out of any sympathy to the poor dealer who can't make it and sells below cost.

houdini1

It is always a two way street with your kids. He always will do anything he can to help me out and probably does a lot more for me than I do for him.

You are right about the one shot deal for that SM. Their used car operation was somewhat separate from new cars and he was the used car SM. He knew that he would probably never see us again. That is probably how "used car salesmen" have gotten a bad name over the years. The guys from the new car operation who handled the F&I and customer relations, etc. could not have been nicer.

british_rover

Some kid kicked the C-Pillar cover off of one of our cars. How he managed to do that I have no idea as you would to lie down on the back seat and to like a bicycle style kick up towards the rear window to knock one of those off. It bent all the tabs and clips so we couldn't just clip it back on too. :mad: :sick:

oldfarmer50

"...Pure mark-up..."

My Chrysler dealer didn't have any ADMs but the sticker prices were out of sight. I saw Dodge pick-ups with $40K price tags on them.

I can't see paying that much to haul veggies. They must be for those rich suburban farmers.

oldfarmer50

"...but there were no entry forms anywhere to be seen..."

Did they get "lost"? Did you help to lose them?

british_rover

No, no we didn't do anything of the sort. I can't imagine the dirty looks they would have given us if we had done something like that.

fezo

You should have seen how exceptionally well behaved he was at our local PORSCHE dealer for the launch of the new Panamera (one Panamera had a $96K MSRP & the other had a $118K MSRP!)

Oh, sure, but it's MUCH more reasonable once you've negotiated your share of the holdback.... :P