While CTS may be the least expensive (not cheapest) of the Cadillac line, it seems to have over time been one of reliable Cadillacs. I realize you do not recognize CR survey, but some do as a gauge. CTS seems to do well with other sites data which indicates pretty good reliability. I do believe I would take the V6 over say the Northstar as the most reliable. Good HP too, with decent gas mileage, though they need to improve on that a bit -- they will. Loren
P.S. the launch of the Art & Science look CTS was done well -- lots of push. Will the New Malibu get more push than did the Aura?
Once and for all. The car was a 2003 or 4. It had a 3/36 warranty. My father is over 70 and drives about 5k a year. When the ABS needed repair, it was 39 months old and the service department showed him no mercy. It was 400 bucks to fix.
Let's put it this way 1487. The General had me as a loyal customer and lost me due to quality and reliability issues. The three imports I;ve had since have been the three most reliable cars I've ever had. I also like the driving dynamics of each.
While I've had these imports, my close family members have had GMs and continue to deal with issues that I never have to. Why wht why should I go back now?
"Also this week, Chevrolet announced it will launch a major multimedia ad blitz to trumpet what it calls the division's "far-reaching approach to reducing petroleum consumption."
I think the point you may be missing is the difference between a rental sale, which will be back on the market as a used car in 12-18 months, and commercial/govt sales, which will not see the used car market until they are nothing more than beaters with 175,000+ miles on them.
The stats show that in 2006, 76.8% of Impala FLEET sales were to RENTALS. In 2007, the number is DOWN to 55.7%. The rest were commercial sales.
The Camry has 86.7% fleet sales to rentals in 2006, and is down to 61.4% in 2007.
Once and for all. The car was a 2003 or 4. It had a 3/36 warranty. My father is over 70 and drives about 5k a year. When the ABS needed repair, it was 39 months old and the service department showed him no mercy. It was 400 bucks to fix.
Call Buick customer service. With that few miles on it, and only being 3 months out of warranty, they should do something about it. Your dealership did you no favors, thats for sure. If you have all your paperwork, and tell them how dissatisfied you were, they should reimburse your father.
It is the same general group of subscribers. They are heavily biased anti American and pro Import. You heard it here. Close down all American assembly plants not making above average reliability cars for their class. Why take chances? Ignore any other source as well. If they don't agree with CR they must be wrong. Let's do away with Detroit altogether since everyone there is doing 2nd rate work. Ease of use: Having to shift because the auto is an expensive option. No rebate to pay for it like with the Cobalt. Fuel economy: Having to shift so I can squeeze 2 mpg out of a car because the auto is an expensive option. Comfort: holding in the clutch for 10 minutes every morning negotiating rush hour traffic so I can save 2 mpg when I'm not in rush hour traffic. Reliability: I didn't read the receipt when I took my import in for a checkup that cost $1200. I don't know what they fixed so it must have been nothing.
The engine seems to be basically the same but have slightly different HP/torque numbers. This may be an indication that Mazda gets a different tuning to the valve train or exhaust system, such as in the Duratec 3.0 V6 once shared between the Taurus and the Mazda 6.
Why the ads now? No cars, just ads? Is this one of those global warming bandwagon events. Whoopee!
So far E85 has managed to raise food prices, and little else.
Electric may be the solution, but no one wants a nuke plant in their backyard, spent waste and all, though we so far have had no problems with the local plant. Seems rather safe, though one could imagine one bad day as being really bad, if ya know what I mean. :surprise: The all electric plug in seems to make the most sense when talking alternative and hybrid is filling the gap well. What will they do with all those spent batteries? What happens in accidents if several batteries are crushed? Just wondering. Loren
Are you implying that all subscribers to Consumer Reports, are anti-American and basically a little slow. They all take the car in for unlimited cost check ups and don't even know what was done to the car? Well, I must inform you that many people do the same which are owners of domestic cars. You don't think that many Cadillac owners don't drive in and hand them the keys and say just do whatever you think needs to be done?
If they are taking surveys from owners, and they have data on cars other than domestics, wouldn't that be an indicator that not all subscribers of CR drive foreign autos? Or do they read CR, then buy an American so they can tell them all the bad points to the car. That would be a little bit non-beneficial to the owner. Personally, don't always agree with the car reviews as priorities differ somewhat, so it is more a question of how accurate is the data on the last pages which are the survey results. I too would like to see a bit more supporting info. to go along with the reports when they say bad engine, does it mean twenty dollar part or complete failures, and if it is electrical, is it a bulb or the car won't start. Not sure how they weight things. Of the cars I owned covered by the CR mag. for surveys, they did seem to directly correlate as to there being an issue in that area of the car, however. It ain't perfect, but it is one of the best gauges we have to go by. As for car test reviews, they may show some bias. If there is any bias in the surveys, that would be a major concern, as that would be tampering with the data. I see no proof of that happening. If there was, it would spell the end for the group, no doubt. Loren
I haven't been on here since June 16th thus I have no idea what is going on in the automobile industry. The Delphi contract got ratified as probably you all know by now but beyond that I'm clueless. Stepdad who is in skill trades did nothave to take a cut. PHEW !!!!! My aunt will get a slight raise. I'm headed to the half-way point between Western, Michigan and the Texas, Panhandle. Springfield, Missouri is where I have to meet my ex this Sunday to drop off the kids. :sick: Anyways, I'll let y'all know how gas prices are doing if I get a chance.
If any of you have seen anything about Saab, lemme know please. I'd like to know what's going on with the Black Turbo and the stages of the new 08' 9-3 XWD are at.
Black Turbo Snippets Don't expect to see the Black Turbo, Saab's high performance version of the 9-3, any time prior to Frankfurt in September - and that's no certainty either. An early-2008 Motor Show might be a better bet as my advice is that a release for sale is set for early 2008 at the earliest.
But it is coming and no, it's not the XWD car that the press are driving at the moment in Sweden.
'Cerulean' has dropped the following in comments:
The Black Turbo appears to be going ahead as in the UK Saab are currently asking their dealers how many of these models they would be likely to sell to get an idea of how many to order.
Saab GB might be active on this because it was mentioned to me that Black Turbo prototypes are currently in the UK. They're likely to be masked in either regular 08 or even 07 bodies, so if you see a Saab 9-3 taking the bends with extraordinary speed and surefootedness then grab your video camera and commit it to film.
-----
Brief conversation held via IM recently in a land far, far away.....
"If I asked you to think of the Black Turbo, and then of a number between 275 and 325...."
"Yes..."
"Would that number have a 3 at the front of it?"
"Definitely"
And would the next number be a 2?"
"Quite possibly"
-----
Mail has also come in recently that the Black Turbo will be available in both Sedan and SportCombi configurations, with 6-speed manual gearboxes only.
"The Outlook is the better vehicle but CR wasnt going to rate it as high as their precious Pilot. They clearly say the Outlook is the only crossover they have tested that has a fully usable 3rd row seat so I fail to see how they have it ranked below the Pilot and Highlander hybrid which both have kid only 3rd rows. "
Doing a side-by-side comparison on the CR website, the Pilot has better acelleration, braking, fuel economy (their test, EPA rates the Outlook better), access, controls, and fit & finish. Fuel economy and braking are known to be important in CR rankings. They ding the Outlook on rear visibility, intrusive head restraints, transmission and wet braking. They ding the Pilot only for road noise.
It is also clear that there are subjective factors at play, and that these factors aren't automatically pro-Honda/anti-GM. They give the Outlook a better rating for third row comfort, but the Pilot has more shoulder, leg, & head room.
First of all I think it's the Outlook that got dinged on transmission. Second, my family have owned 1 Acura and 2 Hondas in the last 13 years or so and never had any transmission problems.
Could we be just lucky? Maybe. But we also have friends whom have been driving nothing but Honda and they also never experienced any transmission problems.
Come on Dave. Let's just stipulate that everyone that comes here to converse has at least a little interest and a little knowledge of cars. You think that we all are buying less reliable cars, paying 1200 for routine maintenance and not questioning it, because we 'hate' a company for no good reason.
I really have had no problems with my nissan and I have dropped 1200 in one shot besides the day I took it home.
How come no other companies have this problem with not selling their superior products because people just hate them?
They did have transmission problems on a couple of cars, in a few years over a couple decades -- so what? Are you saying that GM and other companies building cars never have a transmission go bad? I doubt that. If we are talking statistics, I think you will find many a bum GM transmission over the last couple of decades. Anyone can select a couple, three, four or more models over recent history and say hey look, bad transmission here and look another one there, so they all are bad. My GM tranny blew, as did the same model of GM car blow for a neighbor. I understand the next year, they solved the problem so the Olds98 no longer blew up at an early age. I could have said, stop buying the Olds, they all blow up early, but I did not and got an Olds Achieva the transmission worked fine. And after around eight trips to get things fixed in the first couple of months, the car held up reasonably well. Was taking on water in the floor area though, when traded in. Little patch here or there, and it could be fixed. The rest of the leaks got fixed early on; most likely the mis-hung doors did not seal up correctly. Car got decent gas mileage, was fairly quick, had flacky handling some times when the steering went light at speed rather than firming up, and anti-lock brakes cause the rear to hop up and jump in the back some times. Transmission, a three speed, always worked. Of course the gear selector cable was stretched and it had to be replaced or adjusted. This re-occured later on, and starting the car was by placing in neutral, or other actions required. You have to have a good sense of humor to own a GM of the 80's or 90's. Loren
Absolutely true that Honda's tranny problems are blown out of proportion, afterall, our 1992 had its original transmission and reached 200,000 miles before we sold it, and it was still running strong with no hint of deterioration.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I know 11 people personally that have V6 Hondas and Acuras from that generation. I mean were talking 100, 200+ thousand miles with no problems. A detail shop down the street from my house, the owner has a supercharged 98' Accord V6 pushin about 265hp. Car had something like 155 thousand last I spoke with him, no transmissions. My 03' Acura MDX has 91k or so on it and I've never cracked it open. My father had an 01', one of the first and he traded it with 135k on it, no issues.
There are a few examples from this end. My knowledge of the whole thing was that they WERE prone to failure if not properly maintained. I flush the fluid every 30k as my dad did. Thee are signs that there is a problem as the fluid goes from a reddish color (normal) to a black (not good). Even then it's not gauranteed that you'll have to replace.
Honda had troublesome transmissions in the V-6 Accord, the Pilot, Odyssey and Acura MDX and TL. As a result of a class action suit, the company was forced to extend the warranty for all affected vehicles, although it was fixing the transmissions with as many as 100,000 miles on them, as a goodwill gesture.
I spoke to a technician from a local Honda dealer a few weeks ago (this was at a car show, away from the dealership), and he told me that the problem has been fixed since at least the 2006 model year. Honda made changes to the transmission to enable it to cope with the increased power of the V-6s.
The new transmissions are not problematic, and the transmissions in the four cylinders have not displayed problems.
I guess I jumped on the Japanese band wagon prematurely. I had nothing but trouble from Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Nissan vehicles. I was so thankful when I could afford to buy a new domestic in 1984. It was a full sized Bronco that I really liked with No warranty issues. I gave it to my ex wife when I bought a new GM 4X4 3/4 ton PU in 1988. I sold it in 1990 and bought a new Chevy 3/4 ton 4X4. Sold that one in Alaska also for close to what I paid 3 years before. Bought a new Chevy 3/4 ton 4X4 in 1993. Hit a deer in Idaho and traded it on a new Suburban in 1998. Sold it in 2005 and bought this GMC Hybrid. NEVER spent a dime on repairs other than brakes, belts, tires, wipers and batteries.
The Japanese have screwed me over the years and GM has treated me like Royalty. I say anything but Japanese is good. Just trying to balance out this lopsided GM hating HONTOY loving thread.
PS I just talked to the guy that owns the water store. His 2001 Suburban has 211,000 trouble free miles and still going strong. Looks like a new vehicle.
84 Bronco huh? Awesome. My parents had one too, an XLT,two tone, brown on brown. Had it all the way up till 2001 or so when my mom hit a tree during an ice storm, thing had 200k on it with minimal headaches (Dad worked on his own cars) They still have a 96' EB that is his flea market truck with 150k or so. Those Broncos were great trucks. Rust seems to be the biggest problem with them...
I say anything but Japanese is good. Just trying to balance out this lopsided GM hating HONTOY loving thread.
I think you may be exaggerating here. I don't see it.
Just going by your handle. I have had great luck with GMC & Chevy vehicles since I switched in 1988. Of all the new Japanese vehicles I have owned. The only one that was trouble free was the 1970 Datsun PU truck. Great little truck. My most recent 1994 Toyota PU was junk also. So I just don't see the amore for vehicles built by the Japanese.
People that have had a bad experience or two (or one unforgiveable experience) have boycotted that manufacturer, and maybe even that Country's manufacturers in exceptionally bad cases. People that have had good experiences with their vehicles from a certain make have stuck with them and continued to buy them until they fail them.
I think this is happening, has happened, and will (and should) continue to happen.
Now let's look at the sales charts of the last 10 years. Who's sales are going up? Who's are going down? Who's getting customer loyalty? Who's losing it?
This will answer all of your questions about reliablity, dependability, and build quality.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"Not all american workers are producing inferior product, but the American auto workers appear to be doing it for over 30 years now, or even longer."
A statement like that proves you arent paying attention to any current domestic products. The fit and finish on today's vehicles, even domestic, is largely very good. american cars today have tighter panel gaps than Japanese cars of 10 years ago. Check out some mid 90s Nissans and Toyotas if you dont believe me.
"If your too young for the Avalon then you are too young for any Caddy or Buick too. "
Incorrect, the DTS and STS may be for older people but not the CTS, SRX or Escalade. Most people I see driving those models are in their 40s. More outdated information, but I'm used to it by now. You really need to get caught up with GM's CURRENT products and get out of the 80s. The avalon is an unattractive car by any measure, there is no excuse. Only older people could find an ungainly car like that attrative. I hope GM never gives anything similar to that. The Lucerne is far classier looking.
"However, back then they did use some cheaper plastics, but at least they fit together well and the car ran forever without any debillatating problems. "
My parent's Olds is over 9 years old with nearly 95k miles and has no "debilitating" problems. It has had wear and tear maintance costs and replacements because the car is getting old. Dont worry, I already know Toyotas dont ever hit you with any replacement costs or age related maintanance expenses.
Why would they not like a dependable, durable transmission? Honda's had a lifetime of problems.
This is so typical. Because Honda has had some transmission problems, they are dinged on it incessantly. No car company is perfect. Yet nobody even talks about the Quad 4 failures, the Windstar head gasket failures and transmission failures, because those Ford and GM problems are so routine that they aren't even worth highlighting.
Honda has a transmission problem for 3 or 4 years, fixes it, and even fixes the problems out of warranty, and it's a big story. Ford certainly didn't want to fix my brother's busted Windstar transmission at 50K miles.
Well.... let's hear you state exactly what these wear and tear mainteance items you claim were? What was replaced?
The transmission and the engine? The head gaskets? The windshield (mine cracked due to structural defects; not an impact)? Water pump? Fuel pump? Belts? I'd like to know.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"Doing a side-by-side comparison on the CR website, the Pilot has better acelleration, braking, fuel economy (their test, EPA rates the Outlook better), access, controls, and fit & finish. Fuel economy and braking are known to be important in CR rankings. They ding the Outlook on rear visibility, intrusive head restraints, transmission and wet braking. They ding the Pilot only for road noise. "
If CR is the one rating the Pilot above the Outlook of course they are not going to have any criticism of the Pilot. Check out what OTHERS are saying, that is my point. I have been in both vehicles, the access and control layout in the Outlook is fine. It has more room in the 2nd and 3rd row plus the smart slide seats so I would love to know how the Pilot has "better" access. As for acceleration, the Pilot is SMALLER and thus weighs less so it might be a little faster. CR's 0-60 time was quite a bit slowed than what C&D recorded for the Acadia. As for braking, the Acadia with the 19s stopped in an impressive 167ft in C&D- dont know why CR's outlook is so bad on braking but it could be the smaller tires. As so many people tell me when domestic cars outperform imports in road tests- there is more to a ranking than 0-60 times and braking distances. Especially when the Pilot has tons of hard plastic and a kid only third row with little cargo space behind the 3rd row.
Intrusive head restraints? that barely makes sense. I dont even know what CR is talking about in that case, but leave it them to find the most obscure problems on anything from Detroit. I sat in the vehicle and noticed NOTHING negative about the head restraints.
Dodge didn't seem the least bit interested in ANTEing up for my broken Air Conditioner at 3.1 years and 30,000 miles or so. Since they didn't seem interested in fixing that, I'm sure they wouldn't be (and sure weren't) interested in fixing head gaskets at 50K or the transmission at 60-65K. Though I admit, I didn't have "Dodge" fix the tranny. By that time, I had sworn they weren't going to finance their whole Corporate HQ overhead costs from my purchase of replacement Mopar parts (or help fund their dealers' service departements).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
You are too kind, the current Avalon is butt ugly. It has sales to prove it. It is down 18% from last year. I imagine it is time to just drop it. They could probably unload them on the rental market if they were not so overpriced.
"The transmission and the engine? The head gaskets? The windshield (mine cracked due to structural defects; not an impact)? Water pump? Fuel pump? Belts? I'd like to know. "
hard as it may be to believe I am not stupid. I dont consider engine replacements and tranny replacements to be "normal" wear and tear. They have had no issues with powertrain, fuel pumps, head gaskets, windsheilds, etc. give me a break. I understand that you think that people who buy domestic are lacking common sense and fail to understand that cars arent supposed to be in the shop every week, but I assure you SOME of them are almost as smart as you and other import owners. I wouldnt call a car with a failing engine reliable under any circumstances.
I'm talking tires, accesory belts, etc. Since the warranty ended in 2000 (that's 7 years ago) they have had a new starter (old one still worked but made noise), airflow sensor and new thermostat, everything else was age related.
Before you tell me imports never have these problems I would like to note I know someonw with an 2001 I30 who just had his mass airflow sensor replaced. Hey, maybe he was the only guy in the country with an Infiniti with this issue.
There's a saying in spanish "lo barato vale muy caro" which basically means the cheap ends up costing the most expensive.
I'd rather pay extra for the bank vault reputation of Toyota, Honda, and Sony (for Televisions) than have to get a replacement every 2 years. I can keep those three brands I mentioned 10 years without a worry or a hassle.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"The transmission and the engine? The head gaskets? The windshield (mine cracked due to structural defects; not an impact)? Water pump? Fuel pump? Belts? I'd like to know. "
Than you arent talking about the Avalon or the majority of Toyota's lineup. Even die hard GM bashers are starting to acknowledge than GM is designing better looking cars than Toyota and many others. Come on, try and salvage some credibility. The avalon is ugly.
I actually don't find any Toyota's good looking, except for the RAV4, that one is well executed in every way.
People (I think) buy Toyota's because they run forever and never break down. They present excellent value for the money, and they are very comfortable and ride nice and easy.
I don't think people are buying Toyota's for the styling or looks all that much. One main reason I haven't bought a Toyota myself.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"Let's put it this way 1487. The General had me as a loyal customer and lost me due to quality and reliability issues. The three imports I;ve had since have been the three most reliable cars I've ever had. I also like the driving dynamics of each.
While I've had these imports, my close family members have had GMs and continue to deal with issues that I never have to. Why wht why should I go back now? "
Dont go back. I just find it amazing that you and others that know so many import owners have NEVER come across and problem stories. That and the fact that you have NEVER come across domestic owners without problems. Either you are a rare case or people you know chose not to tell you about whats happening with their cars. If you believe GM quality is the same as 15, 10 or even 5 years ago that is on you.
The host just gave you a link showing GM improving warranty cost performance by 12% in one year. That is significant and the trend has ben going that way for a while. I believe they have cut warranty claims by 40% since '98. If you enjoy limited choices of vehicles, more power to you. I care about price and styling too much to swear off anything not made by Honda or Toyota. There isnt anything at the Toyota store that peaks my interest. People buy Toyotas for practical reasons, not because they really like the car. I cant put resale value at the top of my list. If I wanted a hybrid I would probably get a Toyota, they do have that segment locked down right now.
Rav4 is decent looking but the interior is cheap. Plus no navigation. Best thing about RAv4 is V6 performance, although it is accompanied by bad torque steer. Funny how GM vehicles used to get trashed for that but on Toyotas its a minor annoyance.
of Domestic vehicles that ran well for a long time without mechanical problems, problem is all of these stories I've heard in real life (in-person), have all been for trucks/big SUV's.
On the forums in Edmunds, I've heard a few good reports from GM loyalists that their Buicks and Cadillacs (cars too even) were great for a long long time.
I've NEVER, EVER, not once (honestly) heard of a bad experience with a Honda or Toyota (in real life/in person).
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
If you enjoy limited choices of vehicles, more power to you
Your host had a problematic Volvo in '74 and hasn't gone back. Some of our memories may be detrimental to our present needs, but you can't say they aren't long.
"No car company is perfect. Yet nobody even talks about the Quad 4 failures, the Windstar head gasket failures and transmission failures, because those Ford and GM problems are so routine that they aren't even worth highlighting. "
Thats a pretty bold and absurd statement. Nice way to cover for Honda though. I like that: "Honda's problems should be ignored because domestics have WAY more problems and HOnda is being unfairly targeted". Anyone who thinks the problems of domestic cars arent talked about enough isnt paying attention.
The quad4 was phased out several years ago- I assume the problems you are talking about are 10+ years old. Very relevant today, especially when the engine isnt in production anymore.
Windstar? Are you talking the first generation? That vehicle came out in 1994. The whole point of saying domestics are BETTER today is that they used to be hot or miss and now they are much BETTER. There is no need to tell people that 15 years ago Ford and GM werent making quality cars across the board. I think we all got that by now. But hey, lets take it back to the 70s and 80s while we're here. I cant believe no one has mentioned the Cimarron yet, that always seems to come up with talking about current GM products.
Comments
Loren
P.S. the launch of the Art & Science look CTS was done well -- lots of push. Will the New Malibu get more push than did the Aura?
Let's put it this way 1487. The General had me as a loyal customer and lost me due to quality and reliability issues. The three imports I;ve had since have been the three most reliable cars I've ever had. I also like the driving dynamics of each.
While I've had these imports, my close family members have had GMs and continue to deal with issues that I never have to. Why wht why should I go back now?
Bob Lutz: Some Concepts Don't Fit GM's Current Fuel-Economy Climate
I think the point you may be missing is the difference between a rental sale, which will be back on the market as a used car in 12-18 months, and commercial/govt sales, which will not see the used car market until they are nothing more than beaters with 175,000+ miles on them.
The stats show that in 2006, 76.8% of Impala FLEET sales were to RENTALS. In 2007, the number is DOWN to 55.7%. The rest were commercial sales.
The Camry has 86.7% fleet sales to rentals in 2006, and is down to 61.4% in 2007.
Call Buick customer service. With that few miles on it, and only being 3 months out of warranty, they should do something about it. Your dealership did you no favors, thats for sure. If you have all your paperwork, and tell them how dissatisfied you were, they should reimburse your father.
DrFill
You heard it here. Close down all American assembly plants not making above average reliability cars for their class. Why take chances? Ignore any other source as well. If they don't agree with CR they must be wrong. Let's do away with Detroit altogether since everyone there is doing 2nd rate work.
Ease of use: Having to shift because the auto is an expensive option. No rebate to pay for it like with the Cobalt.
Fuel economy: Having to shift so I can squeeze 2 mpg out of a car because the auto is an expensive option.
Comfort: holding in the clutch for 10 minutes every morning negotiating rush hour traffic so I can save 2 mpg when I'm not in rush hour traffic.
Reliability: I didn't read the receipt when I took my import in for a checkup that cost $1200. I don't know what they fixed so it must have been nothing.
So far E85 has managed to raise food prices, and little else.
Electric may be the solution, but no one wants a nuke plant in their backyard, spent waste and all, though we so far have had no problems with the local plant. Seems rather safe, though one could imagine one bad day as being really bad, if ya know what I mean. :surprise: The all electric plug in seems to make the most sense when talking alternative and hybrid is filling the gap well. What will they do with all those spent batteries? What happens in accidents if several batteries are crushed? Just wondering.
Loren
If they are taking surveys from owners, and they have data on cars other than domestics, wouldn't that be an indicator that not all subscribers of CR drive foreign autos? Or do they read CR, then buy an American so they can tell them all the bad points to the car. That would be a little bit non-beneficial to the owner. Personally, don't always agree with the car reviews as priorities differ somewhat, so it is more a question of how accurate is the data on the last pages which are the survey results. I too would like to see a bit more supporting info. to go along with the reports when they say bad engine, does it mean twenty dollar part or complete failures, and if it is electrical, is it a bulb or the car won't start. Not sure how they weight things. Of the cars I owned covered by the CR mag. for surveys, they did seem to directly correlate as to there being an issue in that area of the car, however. It ain't perfect, but it is one of the best gauges we have to go by. As for car test reviews, they may show some bias. If there is any bias in the surveys, that would be a major concern, as that would be tampering with the data. I see no proof of that happening.
If there was, it would spell the end for the group, no doubt.
Loren
If any of you have seen anything about Saab, lemme know please. I'd like to know what's going on with the Black Turbo and the stages of the new 08' 9-3 XWD are at.
Thanks,
Rocky
Don't expect to see the Black Turbo, Saab's high performance version of the 9-3, any time prior to Frankfurt in September - and that's no certainty either. An early-2008 Motor Show might be a better bet as my advice is that a release for sale is set for early 2008 at the earliest.
But it is coming and no, it's not the XWD car that the press are driving at the moment in Sweden.
'Cerulean' has dropped the following in comments:
The Black Turbo appears to be going ahead as in the UK Saab are currently asking their dealers how many of these models they would be likely to sell to get an idea of how many to order.
Saab GB might be active on this because it was mentioned to me that Black Turbo prototypes are currently in the UK. They're likely to be masked in either regular 08 or even 07 bodies, so if you see a Saab 9-3 taking the bends with extraordinary speed and surefootedness then grab your video camera and commit it to film.
-----
Brief conversation held via IM recently in a land far, far away.....
"If I asked you to think of the Black Turbo, and then of a number between 275 and 325...."
"Yes..."
"Would that number have a 3 at the front of it?"
"Definitely"
And would the next number be a 2?"
"Quite possibly"
-----
Mail has also come in recently that the Black Turbo will be available in both Sedan and SportCombi configurations, with 6-speed manual gearboxes only.
-Well I think I found my answer.......
-Rocky
Doing a side-by-side comparison on the CR website, the Pilot has better acelleration, braking, fuel economy (their test, EPA rates the Outlook better), access, controls, and fit & finish. Fuel economy and braking are known to be important in CR rankings. They ding the Outlook on rear visibility, intrusive head restraints, transmission and wet braking. They ding the Pilot only for road noise.
It is also clear that there are subjective factors at play, and that these factors aren't automatically pro-Honda/anti-GM. They give the Outlook a better rating for third row comfort, but the Pilot has more shoulder, leg, & head room.
Why would they not like a dependable, durable transmission? Honda's had a lifetime of problems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Could we be just lucky? Maybe. But we also have friends whom have been driving nothing but Honda and they also never experienced any transmission problems.
I really have had no problems with my nissan and I have dropped 1200 in one shot besides the day I took it home.
How come no other companies have this problem with not selling their superior products because people just hate them?
Loren
It was the first few years of the V6 Odyssey, the TLs from the late 90s and early 00s.
Yours was about 7 years prior.
My friend replaced the one on his TL.
There are a few examples from this end. My knowledge of the whole thing was that they WERE prone to failure if not properly maintained. I flush the fluid every 30k as my dad did. Thee are signs that there is a problem as the fluid goes from a reddish color (normal) to a black (not good). Even then it's not gauranteed that you'll have to replace.
I spoke to a technician from a local Honda dealer a few weeks ago (this was at a car show, away from the dealership), and he told me that the problem has been fixed since at least the 2006 model year. Honda made changes to the transmission to enable it to cope with the increased power of the V-6s.
The new transmissions are not problematic, and the transmissions in the four cylinders have not displayed problems.
The Japanese have screwed me over the years and GM has treated me like Royalty. I say anything but Japanese is good. Just trying to balance out this lopsided GM hating HONTOY loving thread.
PS
I just talked to the guy that owns the water store. His 2001 Suburban has 211,000 trouble free miles and still going strong. Looks like a new vehicle.
I say anything but Japanese is good. Just trying to balance out this lopsided GM hating HONTOY loving thread.
I think you may be exaggerating here. I don't see it.
Well, living in Cali, having three properties?, one in Hawaii, you must be doing pretty well for yourself! Maybe you are famous?:P
Spent 37 years working in Alaska and spent the excess on real estate instead of toys.
People that have had a bad experience or two (or one unforgiveable experience) have boycotted that manufacturer, and maybe even that Country's manufacturers in exceptionally bad cases. People that have had good experiences with their vehicles from a certain make have stuck with them and continued to buy them until they fail them.
I think this is happening, has happened, and will (and should) continue to happen.
Now let's look at the sales charts of the last 10 years. Who's sales are going up? Who's are going down? Who's getting customer loyalty? Who's losing it?
This will answer all of your questions about reliablity, dependability, and build quality.
A statement like that proves you arent paying attention to any current domestic products. The fit and finish on today's vehicles, even domestic, is largely very good. american cars today have tighter panel gaps than Japanese cars of 10 years ago. Check out some mid 90s Nissans and Toyotas if you dont believe me.
Incorrect, the DTS and STS may be for older people but not the CTS, SRX or Escalade. Most people I see driving those models are in their 40s. More outdated information, but I'm used to it by now. You really need to get caught up with GM's CURRENT products and get out of the 80s. The avalon is an unattractive car by any measure, there is no excuse. Only older people could find an ungainly car like that attrative. I hope GM never gives anything similar to that. The Lucerne is far classier looking.
However, back then they did use some cheaper plastics, but at least they fit together well and the car ran forever without any debillatating problems.
My parent's Olds is over 9 years old with nearly 95k miles and has no "debilitating" problems. It has had wear and tear maintance costs and replacements because the car is getting old. Dont worry, I already know Toyotas dont ever hit you with any replacement costs or age related maintanance expenses.
I like sporty, streamlined, aerodynamic, ergonomic, hot, modern, and other such type words to describe my vehicles.
This is so typical. Because Honda has had some transmission problems, they are dinged on it incessantly. No car company is perfect. Yet nobody even talks about the Quad 4 failures, the Windstar head gasket failures and transmission failures, because those Ford and GM problems are so routine that they aren't even worth highlighting.
Honda has a transmission problem for 3 or 4 years, fixes it, and even fixes the problems out of warranty, and it's a big story. Ford certainly didn't want to fix my brother's busted Windstar transmission at 50K miles.
The transmission and the engine? The head gaskets? The windshield (mine cracked due to structural defects; not an impact)? Water pump? Fuel pump? Belts? I'd like to know.
If CR is the one rating the Pilot above the Outlook of course they are not going to have any criticism of the Pilot. Check out what OTHERS are saying, that is my point. I have been in both vehicles, the access and control layout in the Outlook is fine. It has more room in the 2nd and 3rd row plus the smart slide seats so I would love to know how the Pilot has "better" access. As for acceleration, the Pilot is SMALLER and thus weighs less so it might be a little faster. CR's 0-60 time was quite a bit slowed than what C&D recorded for the Acadia. As for braking, the Acadia with the 19s stopped in an impressive 167ft in C&D- dont know why CR's outlook is so bad on braking but it could be the smaller tires. As so many people tell me when domestic cars outperform imports in road tests- there is more to a ranking than 0-60 times and braking distances. Especially when the Pilot has tons of hard plastic and a kid only third row with little cargo space behind the 3rd row.
Intrusive head restraints? that barely makes sense. I dont even know what CR is talking about in that case, but leave it them to find the most obscure problems on anything from Detroit. I sat in the vehicle and noticed NOTHING negative about the head restraints.
hard as it may be to believe I am not stupid. I dont consider engine replacements and tranny replacements to be "normal" wear and tear. They have had no issues with powertrain, fuel pumps, head gaskets, windsheilds, etc. give me a break. I understand that you think that people who buy domestic are lacking common sense and fail to understand that cars arent supposed to be in the shop every week, but I assure you SOME of them are almost as smart as you and other import owners. I wouldnt call a car with a failing engine reliable under any circumstances.
I'm talking tires, accesory belts, etc. Since the warranty ended in 2000 (that's 7 years ago) they have had a new starter (old one still worked but made noise), airflow sensor and new thermostat, everything else was age related.
Before you tell me imports never have these problems I would like to note I know someonw with an 2001 I30 who just had his mass airflow sensor replaced. Hey, maybe he was the only guy in the country with an Infiniti with this issue.
I'd rather pay extra for the bank vault reputation of Toyota, Honda, and Sony (for Televisions) than have to get a replacement every 2 years. I can keep those three brands I mentioned 10 years without a worry or a hassle.
Than you arent talking about the Avalon or the majority of Toyota's lineup. Even die hard GM bashers are starting to acknowledge than GM is designing better looking cars than Toyota and many others. Come on, try and salvage some credibility. The avalon is ugly.
I actually don't find any Toyota's good looking, except for the RAV4, that one is well executed in every way.
People (I think) buy Toyota's because they run forever and never break down. They present excellent value for the money, and they are very comfortable and ride nice and easy.
I don't think people are buying Toyota's for the styling or looks all that much. One main reason I haven't bought a Toyota myself.
While I've had these imports, my close family members have had GMs and continue to deal with issues that I never have to. Why wht why should I go back now? "
Dont go back. I just find it amazing that you and others that know so many import owners have NEVER come across and problem stories. That and the fact that you have NEVER come across domestic owners without problems. Either you are a rare case or people you know chose not to tell you about whats happening with their cars. If you believe GM quality is the same as 15, 10 or even 5 years ago that is on you.
The host just gave you a link showing GM improving warranty cost performance by 12% in one year. That is significant and the trend has ben going that way for a while. I believe they have cut warranty claims by 40% since '98. If you enjoy limited choices of vehicles, more power to you. I care about price and styling too much to swear off anything not made by Honda or Toyota. There isnt anything at the Toyota store that peaks my interest. People buy Toyotas for practical reasons, not because they really like the car. I cant put resale value at the top of my list. If I wanted a hybrid I would probably get a Toyota, they do have that segment locked down right now.
On the forums in Edmunds, I've heard a few good reports from GM loyalists that their Buicks and Cadillacs (cars too even) were great for a long long time.
I've NEVER, EVER, not once (honestly) heard of a bad experience with a Honda or Toyota (in real life/in person).
Your host had a problematic Volvo in '74 and hasn't gone back. Some of our memories may be detrimental to our present needs, but you can't say they aren't long.
Thats a pretty bold and absurd statement. Nice way to cover for Honda though. I like that: "Honda's problems should be ignored because domestics have WAY more problems and HOnda is being unfairly targeted". Anyone who thinks the problems of domestic cars arent talked about enough isnt paying attention.
The quad4 was phased out several years ago- I assume the problems you are talking about are 10+ years old. Very relevant today, especially when the engine isnt in production anymore.
Windstar? Are you talking the first generation? That vehicle came out in 1994. The whole point of saying domestics are BETTER today is that they used to be hot or miss and now they are much BETTER. There is no need to tell people that 15 years ago Ford and GM werent making quality cars across the board. I think we all got that by now. But hey, lets take it back to the 70s and 80s while we're here. I cant believe no one has mentioned the Cimarron yet, that always seems to come up with talking about current GM products.