Well, based upon the last two fill ups, and the ~15mpg calcs, I have decided to alter my driving habits to see what happens to fuel economy. It's fun to drive like it's a BMW, but not fun at the gas station. I will advise on the results.
Thanks for your comments and yes this is a 03 EX Sedona. The options are as you said: leather, moonroof and ABS. No rear spoiler. The MSRP is $24,200 and the price I stated [$21,200] was AFTER the rebate [it also includes delivery]. I am not trading anything and the dealer has agreed to 4% financing because I can get close to that at my bank - and told him so. He wants to hold the paper so I'll let him.
That's where we are at the moment - I'm pretty sure I'm close to his bottom line. The dealer told me he has 35 sitting on the lot and needs to move them. Does this mean that I have the advantage over a car dealer???? Feels pretty good for once!
Just for laughs, stopped [unannounced] at a Mazda dealer on the way home tonight to take a look at a MPV. We live in Western PA and had some snow yesterday so all the cars in the lot were buried. The salesman had to go out, start the MPV, and let it run for 15 minutes to thaw it out. Another 15 minutes to hack the ice away to open the doors [with the wife and 18 month old son standing around watching - the thing looked like an ice cube] and we're in. Not to be critical but you would think that the dealer would have a few cars/trucks/vans ready to be inspected by potential customers. It was pathetic watching this guy trying to open the door - I almost told him to forget it. Anyway, my wife took one look at the "magic seat" [it looks like you are sitting on the floor], then the sticker, and went back inside. I stayed a bit, since the frozen salesman with no gloves spent a half hour getting the van open, and liked what I saw. It was nicely done and overall had high quality materials. However, there was not much of a difference between the MPV and the Sedonna. Two things really jumped out: The shifter on the column looked ridiculous and it seemed much smaller inside than the Sedona. The actual interior numbers are close between the two but in person MPV seems much tighter. I have a meeting tomorrow with the salesman and the "manager" to discuss price. The sticker said $28 and change - I am not optimistic. The bottom line is I like them both. However, there is no way the Mazda is worth $4 to $5K more than the Sedona. I'll let you know what Mazda's "deal" looks like and how it compares to the Sedona.
If you like them the same, think what you can do with the extra 7 K. I bought mine 3 days before the rebate started and did OK at $22.2. The 21.2 is great! Add GPS and DVD for 2.5 k more, and you're fully loaded with a 5 yr/60k bumper to bumper for $24K + TTL.
I know that Mazda will work a deal for a new MPV. I have a 2002 MPV LX w/4-Seasons/Security Package/Luxury Package/Rear Air/Cassette/Rear Bumper Step Plate/ and Roof Rack. The MSRP for the vehicle so equipped is $26,630. With the $2000 incentive, my cost was $22,600 + TTL. I did not have a trade in and brought no down payment to the table. So in affect, my purchase price was $1700 below vehicle invoice. I am sure you would still be able to get a lower out the door price for a Sedona but the difference isn't quite as great as some speculate. The MPV is not selling at MSRP and anyone who pays MSRP for an MPV is not doing their homework.
I have nothing against the Sedona and I think it is a good value . . . but it didn't work for me on several points. The MPV isn't perfect either. There are several things I would like to have Mazda change but I can live with the faults of the MPV.
Here's what Mazda had to say today: 2003 MPV ES with most options [no sunroof or entertainment system] with a sticker of $28,500 for $25,000. Or $26,500 if I took advantage of 0% financing for 48 months. The reason we are looking at an ES is that we want leather seating and it only comes on the ES - as a result it's tough comparing the two. But they came down $3,500 without any type of negotiating so there has to be a few more bucks they can move. One other note - I told the Mazda guys that I was shopping the MPV against a Sedonna. Boy, did these guys hammer Kia - everything from the Sedona losing 50% of it's value in the first year to Kia pulling out of the US market and not honoring warranty work. It was pretty comical. Big_Guy, why didn't the Sedona work for you? What are the things you are not happy with on the MPV? Care to share your thoughts?
My dad was down to 2003 MPV and 2003 Sedona during our shopping trip today and decided on the Sedona. The dealer is willing to sell at invoice, minus $1,000 rebate. My dad is going to give them $200 more than invoice because he's a nice guy. The catch is the dealer's invoice, which appears to be a photocopy of a memorandum/invoice from Kia, includes a $433 marketing charge. This means the invoice on a $24,370 Sedona was $22,663 (instead of $22,230 without the mktg charge). We appear to be in Kia's "Central Region" - I'm not sure if other regions have same or similar marketing charges. Past discussions on this board were inconclusive as to whether consumers were able to negotiate this amount. But if fpv has gotten a price quote of $21,200 for a loaded Sedona, the dealer is selling at just about invoice minus the $1,000 rebate (excluding a $433 mktg fee from dealer invoice); or assuming the $433 mktg fee is in the invoice, dealer is selling around $400 below invoice.
The deal for my dad would be $22,863 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,863 final price (plus tax/title/plate transfer).
I don't get the impression that the dealer my dad is working with (in west Michigan) are willing to go much below their stated invoice price.
I have not actually seen the invoice during my time with the dealer. He has called twice since Christmas and I missed his call both times. I will stop and see him tomorrow and ask about the "marketing charges". I'll see if I can get a copy of it and will detail each item for you. I don't see me paying any marketing charge - thats the cost of doing business as far as I'm concerned. The dealer I am working with said the price quoted is $99 over invoice then minus the $1,000 rebate. In addition, I have two more payments on a Honda lease [$350 each] and he is going to pay one and I will eat the other. To recap, $99 over invoice, less $1,000 rebate and less $350 lease payment. That's the bottom line [so far]. I would like to know why your dad chose the Sedona over the MPV. I must tell you that the Mazda ES is pretty nice - and $3,500 more expensive. I am going to visit Mazda tomorrow also and see what they can do as well. By the way, what's a Mulroney sticker and why should I look for it? Thanks in advance
I have a question about the stereo. I recently had the stereo replaced (I don't know if there is more than one type of radio available, its the cd/cassette 6 speakers system) because it won't keep the equalizer settings. If I turn the setting to ROCK and turn off the car, the setting goes back to the regular settings even though it is still set at ROCK. When I hit the equalizer button again and choose ROCK, the settings are back. When I had the stereo replaced, the new one is doing the same thing. It would seem that if I want to keep the setting at ROCK or POP or CLASSICAL, then it should stay that way regardless if I turn off the ignition.
Interested in where things go with your dealer invoice investigation. I suspect there are some questionable charges included in there too. I am experiencing a brick wall in that area and am very frustrated.
Please continue to post your negotiations. I was within several hundred dollars of purchasing recently only to have the dealer sticking on what he said was his invoice.
velvet111I will try to post more details tomorrow after my dad speaks with the salesman, either in person or by phone.
carsdirect.com - I hope I'm allowed to post this sort of info... Tonight I tried carsdirect.com to see their price on a 2003 Sedona EX with ABS, leather, moonroof, and rear spoiler. I.e., all factory options except the tow hitch. carsdirect's price was $21,349 which compares with our dealer's claimed after-rebate invoice price of $21,663. So carsdirect is $314 below our dealer's invoice price and our dealer's invoice includes a $433 marketing allowance added to invoice but not to MSRP. carsdirect pricing depends on location; I entered my home zip code (SE Mich) and a Grand Rapids, Mich-area zip code and received same pricing.
Also re: pricing, fvp's offer and his dealer's statements seem to indicate a dealer invoice of about $400 less than my dealer's invoice on same-equipped vehicles. This leads me to believe that the dealer in fvp's area (western PA) may not incur, or may not be passing on, or both, the same "marketing allowance" that is shown on the invoice for the dealer in my dad's area (west Michigan).
For $300 difference, my dad won't bother with carsdirect. But if he can't get his dealer to do a deal at invoice ($22,663 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,663 on the $24,370 MSRP EX w/aforementioned options), he might investigate carsdirect.
Just returned from both Mazda and Kia dealers. Didn't talk price much with the Mazda people - $25K is the latest offer for a loaded MPV ES and I don't know how much more effort I will put into dealing with them. There is almost a $4K difference between a Sedona and a MPV. I did get a "deal review" sheet from Kia dealership and the price is $21170 for an 03 Sedona EX with leather, ABS, moonroof and delivery - no rear spoiler. Add 7% PA and local tax plus $133.50 for plates and the total comes to $22,785.40. There is no "marketing fee" or any other hidden charges that I could see. I think that's a pretty good deal and don't know if I can work anything else into it. Perhaps 4 free oil changes or the first couple routine maintenance visits free may be negotiable. The only thing left for me is actually buying and owning a Kia. For some stupid reason, that's bugging me. How about you guys?? P.S. I asked this before - what's a mulroney sticker and should I look for it?
The big white piece of paper on the passenger side, just above the EPA notice on fuel economy. It should list the vehicle options, list the MSRP and the VIN# should be printed on it (match it to the car). It is required by federal law, so if it isn't on the car, that's a problem.
Oh yeah, I checked carsdirect and could only get it to 22.1K (all options but tow, including rebate)in my area. Bothers me somewhat since these cars are unloaded from the ships about an hour from my house (Southern California). I would think they would be lower than the middle of the country.
Today my dad signed a buyer's order for a black/platinum 2003 Sedona EX with leather, moonroof, ABS, and rear spoiler. Those are all options except the factory tow hitch ($350 MSRP, $265 invoice according to carsdirect). MSRP $24,370. Dealer invoice $22,663 which includes $433 "marketing allowance." Dealer would not budge on this figure - salesperson said he just couldn't do it.
Yesterday, my dad had verbally agreed to $200 over invoice, or $22,863. Subtract $1,000 rebate and price before tax/title/registration = $21,863. Today, without much dickering, the dealer agreed to 'go halfway into the holdback' and offered a price of $21,350. My dad happily accepted.
So if one considers the $433 marketing allowance legitimately to be part of the dealer's invoice price, then this dealer agreed to sell my dad the Sedona for $313 below invoice. Or if you remove the $433 mktg allowance from the invoice, the deal was $120 above invoice.
Either way, I think $21,350 is a very good price for this van, and I was very glad to see my dad finally pull the trigger.
fvp's offer for an EX with leather, moonroof, and ABS for $21,170 sounds almost identical in quality. His quoted van doesn't include the rear spoiler, which is $170 MSRP and $140 invoice. So $21,350 for my dad's deal minus $140 for the rear spoiler = $21,210. So fvp has been offered a very good deal, it seems.
velvet111 and carsdirect - sorry to hear the carsdirect price is higher in your area. It turns out my dad is getting a deal for $1 more than the carsdirect price offered in our area.
Mulroney sticker - hoyahenry has already explained it. "Mulroney" is the more official name. It's also known as the 'window sticker,' 'vehicle sticker,' etc.
Bluedevils - glad to see your dad make it happen. I think his deal is good - right in line with mine. If I take my deal [$21,170] and add rear spoiler [$140] equals $21,310. Just about where your dad's is. Like I said before, I don't see much more room to negotiate. I am going to try to get a few oil changes and/or routine maintenance. I'll let you know if it works. As for the MPV ES, the MSRP was $28,500 and included delivery, 4-seasons package, traction control and side air bags, cargo net, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, power sliding doors, bumper step plate and roof rack. To be honest, I don't know about any rebate - the only thing the dealer mentioned was 0% financing on 48 month deals. He came back with a price of $25K for the van and I haven't explored it any further because the Sedona deal is so good. He did say to come Monday morning and take it for the day which I may do. The 10 MPV's on his lot looks like they have not moved in awhile so there may be more negotiating down the road if I'm interested.
If you can get a $28,500 deal on MPV and also get 0% APR for 48 months, that sounds pretty good. If you need or want to borrow a big chunk of this purchase, the 0% Mazda financing closes the gap between Sedona significantly. It's easy to save a couple thousand bucks when comparing 0% vs. 4-6% financing, if you borrow enough.
Hey...I just saw back a page or so somebody got a quote of 21350 for an 03 EX loaded (all except hitch)....when I use my zip...it shows carsdirect price of 23370 which includes the 1000 rebate. I live in FL. and wonder if maybe they have no dealer affliates here?
I bought my current Hyndai from cars direct and hated dealing with them (the sales person saved the sale really). Tried to buy wife's Honda thru carsdirect and got such poor service I canceled the order after waiting for 2 days on a response. I will not use them now, but am willing to use there price to negotiate with local dealer....except it is not such a good price. Just curious why...
Not sure why the carsdirect prices vary so much by location. Try zip code of 49331. You should be able to convince your local dealer you're willing to fly somewhere out-of-state and drive your vehicle home. I drove an Isuzu Trooper from Maryland back to Michigan.
Mazda will not give me both the 0% and $25K price. They said that if I went with 0% for 48 months, the price of the car would be $26,500. In other words, six of one, half dozen of the other. If I drive it and like it on Monday [and more importantly, my wife likes it], my offer would be $24K and a low interest rate of 3-4%. If they agree to that then the decision becomes much more difficult. But I don't think it will get to that for two reasons: 1. I can't see them agreeing to a deal like that and 2. My wife likes the Sedona and can't understand why I want to look a van that's $4,000 higher in price. We just returned from dinner and saw a couple of MPV's and she was not impressed - she thinks the Sedona looks better. Based on that, I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time with the MPV. mismith356 - I'd forget the carsdirect and go face to face with a dealer or two in your area. That's what I did.
How are you able to get an interest rate in the 3-4% range? I checked bankrate.com and the best 36 month rates are around 4.4-4.5%; 48 mo 4.8-4.9%.
Thanks for clarifying the MPV pricing. In my book, $25,000 for a well-equipped MPV ES is a good price on a good van, but it's not as good a value as a loaded Sedona EX for $21,300.
I agree with you - $25K for a MPV ES that's pretty well loaded is a good price and the van is top notch. I don't think it's worth $4K more than the Sedona and if they were the same price I'd still pick the Kia. The fold away seat in the Mazda is small, close to the floor and uncomfortable. If only kids ride there then fine but in my situation, adults may have to use the third row and the Kia has it all over the Mazda in comfort. As for the financing, I told the Kia dealer that I could get 4.4% at my bank for 48, 56 and 60 month loans. Truth be told, I just picked a number that sounded fair - I have no idea if my bank will give me that. He agreed.
Even though your dealer has agreed to give you 4.4%, do you think they WILL give you 4.4% if they cannot actually get that rate from one of the financing institutions they deal with? I can't imagine the dealer subsidizing your loan!
The 4.4% is a done deal if I go with the Sedona. They can get money cheap and at 4.4% Kia still makes a couple bucks. Don't let them BS you - I should have went for less in retrospect.
I've spent a good amount of time the past 2 days examining the 2003 Sedona in a local dealer's showroom. Here are the things I've noticed, based on personal observation, studying the brochures, etc. that are different between 2003 and 2002:
* Minor pricing differences. Base EX price is higher in 2003 but includes a couple items that were optional in 2002, so the MSRP difference on a loaded EX is only $270 or so.
* 2003 EX - Homelink is standard; was optional on 2002
* 2003 EX- Two-tone paint standard; optional on 2002
* 2003 EX - Monotone paint not available; was standard on 2002
* 2003 has one new color - Sage Green. One color from 2002 - Misty Blue - is not available in 2003
* 2003 has struts to hold up hood instead of traditional prop rod on 2002. Nice touch.
* 2003 has remote fuel door release instead of manual notch in fuel door on 2002. Remote release is located on lower left, near driver's left knee. Remote release is nice, but I always worry what to do when it fails and the vehicle lacks a way to open the fuel door manually.
* 2003 has revised steering wheel control stalks for lights and wipers. Right-hand stalk includes controls for rear wiper/washer; 2002 has separate button for rear wiper/washer
* 2003 has changes to various buttons. Interior rear reading light button has moved from left side of the center instrument cluster for 2002 to left of steering wheel for 2003, where the 2002's rear wiper/washer button is located.
* 2003 - I cannot find a way to activate the front windshield wiper electric de-icer. The 2002 has a button on the right side of the center radio/HVAC controls. But on the 2003, this button is non-functional and not labeled.
* CD/cassette head unit is slightly different for 2003. Similar look, but not exactly the same unit. I didn't listen to the stereo at all, so I don't know if the sound quality is similar to 2002.
* 2003 - has an extra black handle for removing 3rd row seats (in addition to the nylon loop strap to fold down the seatback and the nylon loop strap to remove the seats). I'm not exactly sure of the function of this handle, but it might be to release the front wheels from their tracks. My 2002 has no such black handle.
* 2003 - the strip on top of the ashtray cover in front console is chrome with nothing written on the cover. On my 2002, the strip is black and the cover says "PUSH"
I also took another look today at the taillamps on the 2003 Sedona. While smaller taillamps would be a welcome improvement, the 2003 taillamps look exactly the same as those on my 2002 Sedona. It appears to me that no taillamp change has been made from '02 to '03 Sedonas.
Overall, these changes are very minor. Most of my attention is on the EX model, so there may be additional changes on the LX that I am not aware of.
If you turn off SmartQuotes when you compose offline in Word, garbage won't appear when you paste in here (choose "AutoCorrect" off the "Tools" menu and click the "SmartQuotes" checkbox).
When I bought my Elentra from carsdirect.com, I used peoplesfirst to finance it. Current rates for 48-60 months are 4.89 %. 12-36 month rates are 4.4 %.
You do the loan app online and no kidding, they call you back in 10 mins to let you know it's approved! The only catch is the loan payment has to be auto deducted from your bank. For us this is no biggie as we pay all our bills online.
They send you a draft (check) and a simple form to be faxed back to them.
I have been very happy them and used them as a tool to negotiate a better rate when we bought wife's honda last year.
27400 for an LX...wow, that sounds high to me. I could maybe (big maybe, and wife would have to beg big time) go 25k for an ES with same equipment as Sedona.
I know, but I like how SmartQuotes look in Word docs! I just finished cleaning up my post, but it would have been quicker to turn off SmartQuotes in Word and then turn it back on.
For anyone who may be interested, I just posted a really long couple of posts comparing the 2003 MPV and 2003 Sedona, over on the MPV vs. Sedona topic.
Every so often, there are two different townhall layouts; the "new" one has a square, red and blue motif in lieu of the yellow and blue version. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. ?
I've been presented with this 'alternative' layout a few times in the past hour or so. It's the first time I've seen it. At first glance, it appears to be more helpful, but I haven't had enough time to digest it.
Well, I have posted here and a few times in the MPV vs. Sedona thread and after much deliberation (and reading many, many posts here), decided early this AM we were going ahead and getting the Sedona EX with leather, ABS, spoiler and sun roof.
I am trading my 2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS which shows dealer trade value of 6800. I owe 9500, so I understand being 2500-2700 upside down and can live with it the loss so long as the van price is where it should be.
The dealer offered 5000 for the Elantra and 22135 for the van (if I recall...wife has paper work and is not home yet). It had everything except the spoiler.
I countered with 21230 (which is 21300 - 70 for missing spolier). I also asked for 6700 trade-in on the Elantra. Then add tax, tag and title...no paper work fees or any other BS add on charges. They flat refused with no further discusion and my wife left. The sales guy was very nice and did the normal "it's the guys in the finance office, not me" statement. The thing is, this dealer had those silly asX add on second stickers and they had market adjustment, plus pin striping, plus fabric protectant and undercoating....total for second sticker add on was 1795!! They must have been smoking crack (does anyone ever fall for that crap?).
Anyway, I will try a local dealer who actually sells Kia and Hyundai in hopes of getting a better trade-in to new price ratio.
If anyone thinks I was out of line or expecting too much, please let me know.
I used your zip as suggested (49331) vs. 34711 (mine) and fully loaded Sedona EX was 21349. In my area, they quote 23370. I can only guess they have few or no dealer affiliates here.
Bluedevils, Add these to your list. * Colors beige and silver dropped on EX * Curb weight has increased 93 lbs. to 4802 * Two remotes with panic button * Portion on rear hatch over the latch in now all chrome instead of chrome and body color (EX) * There is a cap holder on inside of gas filler door * Chromed interior handles and locks on sliding doors * Optional tow hitch from manufacturer * It appears the optional rear spoiler may be slightly different
The front windshield wiper electric de-icer may activate with the rear window defroster switch.
Take one more look at the taillamps. They are just slightly different. The lens is the same except the backup lights are in the middle instead of the bottom.
If you have a new '03 brochure, take a look on page 3. The sage green EX has an '02 gas filler door. The new '03's door is flush. This one is not. The remote door may have been one of the last things added.
I am buying the kia sedona but does anyone know if the discounts and buying incentives like $1000 off will still be available in Jan., will not be available or even if there might be bigger discounts?
There are other oddities in the brochure. I need to revisit to make sure what I saw, but I'm pretty sure I saw a dashboard shot with the 2002 buttons around the radio but with revised signal stalks on left and right of steering wheel.
Actually, I wonder if there were any mid-year changes made to the 2002 Sedonas. That might explain some of the oddities.
I'll take your word on the taillamps. Still, they are big and bulbous; in my opinion, one of the worst-looking parts of the van.
I'm glad to hear Kia added a gas cap holder on the inside of the filler door. That and the hood struts are nice little improvements that show Kia is still looking to improve on the original Sedona.
I need to compare the 2002 and 2003 brochures. I don't see how the 2003 van has gained nearly 100 pounds, since it seems mechanically identical to the 2002.
I'm pretty sure the Kia website indicates the $1,000 Sedona rebate is effective through January 2, 2003. There's no telling what will happen after that, but this (early/mid model year) would be a strange time for a manufacturer to drop a rebate. I'd expect the rebate to continue past Jan. 2, but that's pure speculation.
Sorry to hear about your bad buying experience. Sounds like you definitely need to find another dealer; that first one sounds like a nightmare. You might try indicating that you're aware of several folks buying loaded Sedona EXs this month for around $21,200-21,400 after rebate. In February, I indicated to my salesperson that I'd spoken with out-of-state dealers who were willing to do my target price (at the time, $1000 off MSRP) and after a quick phone call to the sales manager while we were at the salesperson's desk, they agreed to the price.
My dad had very little trouble negotiating his deal. I'd say the total elapsed negotiating time was less than 15 minutes, including salesperson interaction with the sales mgr.
You will probably have a hard time selling your Elantra, and you're likely to get way less than blue book for it on trade. If I were you, I'd try to sell it privately unless you think it wouldn't bring much more than by trading it in. Try to keep the trade-in transaction separate - don't discuss it until after you've agreed to terms on the new Sedona.
Remember: There are three parts to negotiating a new car deal. 1. The price of the new car. 2. Trade in. 3. Interest rate. All of the above are separate and should stand alone. And all are negotiable. Don't let the dealer mix the new car price and the trade - a common tact. Do each individually. As for the add-ons: tell the dealer to stick them. That's all dealer profit out of your pocket.
Yeah, kind of disapointed about first try. I was hoping to get kbb.com dealer trade-in price for my car (kbb prices are typically low in my experience).
Acording to kbb dealer trade-in value, I should be able to get 6800. And given what everyone else is paying for Sedona's with the options I wanted, I thought they would be willing to do the deal. I was willing to eat $2500 and accept $6800 had they done 21230. This would still give them hold back & pdi (prep)...plus markup on my trade...which they could likely sell at auction for 8K (a total guess on my part).
Selling the Elantra to an individual would likely be hard given that new cars are easier to finance but I could be wrong. 2 prior attemps to sell outright had no success at all (99 mazda 4 door pickup and 00 VW cabrio loaded). On both attempts, I asked much less than kbb.com and nada guides for private sale and was getting quite close to dealer trade-in prices...not takers and very few calls in both attempts.
Anywho...will continue looking and keep you all updated.
My neighbour and I bought our fully loaded EX's at the same time. His dates to April, and mine was built in July. I have noticed several differences between his van and mine, including the location of the rear wiper controls, and interior lights. As well, I have the gas cap holder on the inside of the gas lid.
I'm guessing that they made several running changes on the 2002's.
Comments
Merry Christmas everyone!
The MSRP is $24,200 and the price I stated [$21,200] was AFTER the rebate [it also includes delivery]. I am not trading anything and the dealer has agreed to 4% financing because I can get close to that at my bank - and told him so. He wants to hold the paper so I'll let him.
That's where we are at the moment - I'm pretty sure I'm close to his bottom line. The dealer told me he has 35 sitting on the lot and needs to move them. Does this mean that I have the advantage over a car dealer???? Feels pretty good for once!
Anyway, my wife took one look at the "magic seat" [it looks like you are sitting on the floor], then the sticker, and went back inside. I stayed a bit, since the frozen salesman with no gloves spent a half hour getting the van open, and liked what I saw. It was nicely done and overall had high quality materials.
However, there was not much of a difference between the MPV and the Sedonna. Two things really jumped out: The shifter on the column looked ridiculous and it seemed much smaller inside than the Sedona. The actual interior numbers are close between the two but in person MPV seems much tighter.
I have a meeting tomorrow with the salesman and the "manager" to discuss price. The sticker said $28 and change - I am not optimistic.
The bottom line is I like them both. However, there is no way the Mazda is worth $4 to $5K more than the Sedona.
I'll let you know what Mazda's "deal" looks like and how it compares to the Sedona.
I have nothing against the Sedona and I think it is a good value . . . but it didn't work for me on several points. The MPV isn't perfect either. There are several things I would like to have Mazda change but I can live with the faults of the MPV.
Just my $.02
The reason we are looking at an ES is that we want leather seating and it only comes on the ES - as a result it's tough comparing the two. But they came down $3,500 without any type of negotiating so there has to be a few more bucks they can move. One other note - I told the Mazda guys that I was shopping the MPV against a Sedonna. Boy, did these guys hammer Kia - everything from the Sedona losing 50% of it's value in the first year to Kia pulling out of the US market and not honoring warranty work. It was pretty comical.
Big_Guy, why didn't the Sedona work for you? What are the things you are not happy with on the MPV? Care to share your thoughts?
The deal for my dad would be $22,863 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,863 final price (plus tax/title/plate transfer).
I don't get the impression that the dealer my dad is working with (in west Michigan) are willing to go much below their stated invoice price.
I would like to know why your dad chose the Sedona over the MPV. I must tell you that the Mazda ES is pretty nice - and $3,500 more expensive. I am going to visit Mazda tomorrow also and see what they can do as well.
By the way, what's a Mulroney sticker and why should I look for it?
Thanks in advance
Any suggestions, hints?
Stacey
Interested in where things go with your dealer invoice investigation. I suspect there are some questionable charges included in there too. I am experiencing a brick wall in that area and am very frustrated.
Please continue to post your negotiations. I was within several hundred dollars of purchasing recently only to have the dealer sticking on what he said was his invoice.
thanks
carsdirect.com - I hope I'm allowed to post this sort of info... Tonight I tried carsdirect.com to see their price on a 2003 Sedona EX with ABS, leather, moonroof, and rear spoiler. I.e., all factory options except the tow hitch. carsdirect's price was $21,349 which compares with our dealer's claimed after-rebate invoice price of $21,663. So carsdirect is $314 below our dealer's invoice price and our dealer's invoice includes a $433 marketing allowance added to invoice but not to MSRP. carsdirect pricing depends on location; I entered my home zip code (SE Mich) and a Grand Rapids, Mich-area zip code and received same pricing.
Also re: pricing, fvp's offer and his dealer's statements seem to indicate a dealer invoice of about $400 less than my dealer's invoice on same-equipped vehicles. This leads me to believe that the dealer in fvp's area (western PA) may not incur, or may not be passing on, or both, the same "marketing allowance" that is shown on the invoice for the dealer in my dad's area (west Michigan).
For $300 difference, my dad won't bother with carsdirect. But if he can't get his dealer to do a deal at invoice ($22,663 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,663 on the $24,370 MSRP EX w/aforementioned options), he might investigate carsdirect.
I did get a "deal review" sheet from Kia dealership and the price is $21170 for an 03 Sedona EX with leather, ABS, moonroof and delivery - no rear spoiler. Add 7% PA and local tax plus $133.50 for plates and the total comes to $22,785.40. There is no "marketing fee" or any other hidden charges that I could see.
I think that's a pretty good deal and don't know if I can work anything else into it. Perhaps 4 free oil changes or the first couple routine maintenance visits free may be negotiable.
The only thing left for me is actually buying and owning a Kia. For some stupid reason, that's bugging me. How about you guys??
P.S. I asked this before - what's a mulroney sticker and should I look for it?
Yesterday, my dad had verbally agreed to $200 over invoice, or $22,863. Subtract $1,000 rebate and price before tax/title/registration = $21,863. Today, without much dickering, the dealer agreed to 'go halfway into the holdback' and offered a price of $21,350. My dad happily accepted.
So if one considers the $433 marketing allowance legitimately to be part of the dealer's invoice price, then this dealer agreed to sell my dad the Sedona for $313 below invoice. Or if you remove the $433 mktg allowance from the invoice, the deal was $120 above invoice.
Either way, I think $21,350 is a very good price for this van, and I was very glad to see my dad finally pull the trigger.
fvp's offer for an EX with leather, moonroof, and ABS for $21,170 sounds almost identical in quality. His quoted van doesn't include the rear spoiler, which is $170 MSRP and $140 invoice. So $21,350 for my dad's deal minus $140 for the rear spoiler = $21,210. So fvp has been offered a very good deal, it seems.
velvet111 and carsdirect - sorry to hear the carsdirect price is higher in your area. It turns out my dad is getting a deal for $1 more than the carsdirect price offered in our area.
Mulroney sticker - hoyahenry has already explained it. "Mulroney" is the more official name. It's also known as the 'window sticker,' 'vehicle sticker,' etc.
As for the MPV ES, the MSRP was $28,500 and included delivery, 4-seasons package, traction control and side air bags, cargo net, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, power sliding doors, bumper step plate and roof rack.
To be honest, I don't know about any rebate - the only thing the dealer mentioned was 0% financing on 48 month deals. He came back with a price of $25K for the van and I haven't explored it any further because the Sedona deal is so good.
He did say to come Monday morning and take it for the day which I may do. The 10 MPV's on his lot looks like they have not moved in awhile so there may be more negotiating down the road if I'm interested.
Still, my vote would be for the Sedona!
I bought my current Hyndai from cars direct and hated dealing with them (the sales person saved the sale really). Tried to buy wife's Honda thru carsdirect and got such poor service I canceled the order after waiting for 2 days on a response. I will not use them now, but am willing to use there price to negotiate with local dealer....except it is not such a good price. Just curious why...
Thanks All....The pricing on Kia's is great info!
If I drive it and like it on Monday [and more importantly, my wife likes it], my offer would be $24K and a low interest rate of 3-4%. If they agree to that then the decision becomes much more difficult.
But I don't think it will get to that for two reasons: 1. I can't see them agreeing to a deal like that and 2. My wife likes the Sedona and can't understand why I want to look a van that's $4,000 higher in price.
We just returned from dinner and saw a couple of MPV's and she was not impressed - she thinks the Sedona looks better. Based on that, I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time with the MPV.
mismith356 - I'd forget the carsdirect and go face to face with a dealer or two in your area. That's what I did.
Thanks for clarifying the MPV pricing. In my book, $25,000 for a well-equipped MPV ES is a good price on a good van, but it's not as good a value as a loaded Sedona EX for $21,300.
As for the financing, I told the Kia dealer that I could get 4.4% at my bank for 48, 56 and 60 month loans. Truth be told, I just picked a number that sounded fair - I have no idea if my bank will give me that. He agreed.
* Minor pricing differences. Base EX price is higher in 2003 but includes a couple items that were optional in 2002, so the MSRP difference on a loaded EX is only $270 or so.
* 2003 EX - Homelink is standard; was optional on 2002
* 2003 EX- Two-tone paint standard; optional on 2002
* 2003 EX - Monotone paint not available; was standard on 2002
* 2003 has one new color - Sage Green. One color from 2002 - Misty Blue - is not available in 2003
* 2003 has struts to hold up hood instead of traditional prop rod on 2002. Nice touch.
* 2003 has remote fuel door release instead of manual notch in fuel door on 2002. Remote release is located on lower left, near driver's left knee. Remote release is nice, but I always worry what to do when it fails and the vehicle lacks a way to open the fuel door manually.
* 2003 has revised steering wheel control stalks for lights and wipers. Right-hand stalk includes controls for rear wiper/washer; 2002 has separate button for rear wiper/washer
* 2003 has changes to various buttons. Interior rear reading light button has moved from left side of the center instrument cluster for 2002 to left of steering wheel for 2003, where the 2002's rear wiper/washer button is located.
* 2003 - I cannot find a way to activate the front windshield wiper electric de-icer. The 2002 has a button on the right side of the center radio/HVAC controls. But on the 2003, this button is non-functional and not labeled.
* CD/cassette head unit is slightly different for 2003. Similar look, but not exactly the same unit. I didn't listen to the stereo at all, so I don't know if the sound quality is similar to 2002.
* 2003 - has an extra black handle for removing 3rd row seats (in addition to the nylon loop strap to fold down the seatback and the nylon loop strap to remove the seats). I'm not exactly sure of the function of this handle, but it might be to release the front wheels from their tracks. My 2002 has no such black handle.
* 2003 - the strip on top of the ashtray cover in front console is chrome with nothing written on the cover. On my 2002, the strip is black and the cover says "PUSH"
I also took another look today at the taillamps on the 2003 Sedona. While smaller taillamps would be a welcome improvement, the 2003 taillamps look exactly the same as those on my 2002 Sedona. It appears to me that no taillamp change has been made from '02 to '03 Sedonas.
Overall, these changes are very minor. Most of my attention is on the EX model, so there may be additional changes on the LX that I am not aware of.
Nice work on the summary - thanks!
Steve, Host
You do the loan app online and no kidding, they call you back in 10 mins to let you know it's approved! The only catch is the loan payment has to be auto deducted from your bank. For us this is no biggie as we pay all our bills online.
They send you a draft (check) and a simple form to be faxed back to them.
I have been very happy them and used them as a tool to negotiate a better rate when we bought wife's honda last year.
27400 for an LX...wow, that sounds high to me. I could maybe (big maybe, and wife would have to beg big time) go 25k for an ES with same equipment as Sedona.
Steve, Host
Sylvia "Ask the Town Hall Hosts" Dec 4, 2002 12:59pm
Steve, Host
I am trading my 2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS which shows dealer trade value of 6800. I owe 9500, so I understand being 2500-2700 upside down and can live with it the loss so long as the van price is where it should be.
The dealer offered 5000 for the Elantra and 22135 for the van (if I recall...wife has paper work and is not home yet). It had everything except the spoiler.
I countered with 21230 (which is 21300 - 70 for missing spolier). I also asked for 6700 trade-in on the Elantra. Then add tax, tag and title...no paper work fees or any other BS add on charges. They flat refused with no further discusion and my wife left. The sales guy was very nice and did the normal "it's the guys in the finance office, not me" statement. The thing is, this dealer had those silly asX add on second stickers and they had market adjustment, plus pin striping, plus fabric protectant and undercoating....total for second sticker add on was 1795!! They must have been smoking crack (does anyone ever fall for that crap?).
Anyway, I will try a local dealer who actually sells Kia and Hyundai in hopes of getting a better trade-in to new price ratio.
If anyone thinks I was out of line or expecting too much, please let me know.
Thanks All!
I used your zip as suggested (49331) vs. 34711 (mine) and fully loaded Sedona EX was 21349. In my area, they quote 23370. I can only guess they have few or no dealer affiliates here.
Add these to your list.
* Colors beige and silver dropped on EX
* Curb weight has increased 93 lbs. to 4802
* Two remotes with panic button
* Portion on rear hatch over the latch in now all chrome instead of chrome and body color (EX)
* There is a cap holder on inside of gas filler door
* Chromed interior handles and locks on sliding doors
* Optional tow hitch from manufacturer
* It appears the optional rear spoiler may be slightly different
The front windshield wiper electric de-icer may activate with the rear window defroster switch.
Take one more look at the taillamps. They are just slightly different. The lens is the same except the backup lights are in the middle instead of the bottom.
If you have a new '03 brochure, take a look on page 3. The sage green EX has an '02 gas filler door. The new '03's door is flush. This one is not. The remote door may have been one of the last things added.
if the discounts and buying incentives like $1000 off will still be available in Jan., will not be available or even if there might be bigger discounts?
There are other oddities in the brochure. I need to revisit to make sure what I saw, but I'm pretty sure I saw a dashboard shot with the 2002 buttons around the radio but with revised signal stalks on left and right of steering wheel.
Actually, I wonder if there were any mid-year changes made to the 2002 Sedonas. That might explain some of the oddities.
I'll take your word on the taillamps. Still, they are big and bulbous; in my opinion, one of the worst-looking parts of the van.
I'm glad to hear Kia added a gas cap holder on the inside of the filler door. That and the hood struts are nice little improvements that show Kia is still looking to improve on the original Sedona.
I need to compare the 2002 and 2003 brochures. I don't see how the 2003 van has gained nearly 100 pounds, since it seems mechanically identical to the 2002.
My dad had very little trouble negotiating his deal. I'd say the total elapsed negotiating time was less than 15 minutes, including salesperson interaction with the sales mgr.
You will probably have a hard time selling your Elantra, and you're likely to get way less than blue book for it on trade. If I were you, I'd try to sell it privately unless you think it wouldn't bring much more than by trading it in. Try to keep the trade-in transaction separate - don't discuss it until after you've agreed to terms on the new Sedona.
All of the above are separate and should stand alone. And all are negotiable. Don't let the dealer mix the new car price and the trade - a common tact. Do each individually.
As for the add-ons: tell the dealer to stick them. That's all dealer profit out of your pocket.
Acording to kbb dealer trade-in value, I should be able to get 6800. And given what everyone else is paying for Sedona's with the options I wanted, I thought they would be willing to do the deal. I was willing to eat $2500 and accept $6800 had they done 21230. This would still give them hold back & pdi (prep)...plus markup on my trade...which they could likely sell at auction for 8K (a total guess on my part).
Selling the Elantra to an individual would likely be hard given that new cars are easier to finance but I could be wrong. 2 prior attemps to sell outright had no success at all (99 mazda 4 door pickup and 00 VW cabrio loaded). On both attempts, I asked much less than kbb.com and nada guides for private sale and was getting quite close to dealer trade-in prices...not takers and very few calls in both attempts.
Anywho...will continue looking and keep you all updated.
My neighbour and I bought our fully loaded EX's at the same time. His dates to April, and mine was built in July. I have noticed several differences between his van and mine, including the location of the rear wiper controls, and interior lights. As well, I have the gas cap holder on the inside of the gas lid.
I'm guessing that they made several running changes on the 2002's.