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Comments
The first hit you'll get is it! The Hunters.
The second hit you'll get is this thread.
And, here is what our IT guy says....but it is far too complicated for me - I am trying to simplify my life. In fact, I am thinking of getting one of these cell phones;
Well you can try to select the area with the mouse you want to copy then paste it into an email window (that has HTML formatting set).
If that doesn't work, you can always use the print screen button (to the right of F12) to grab an image of your current 'screen'. From there, you can open PAINT and paste it in there, and then save the image from there. Then when you do an email, just attach that image. Sometimes you can paste that image right into the email as well, but it depends on what browser/email program you are using, and if HTML is set up as default or not.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks, I'll have to check it out. We sure sell a lot of James Patterson these days too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2. Lincoln Towncar---
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee
Welcome back. I thought you had bought a new GLK and liked it so much you had left for a long trip up to Boston or something.
Good luck in choosing the right one, like you said all cars are pretty good and it just depends on which one suits you the best. Were you in Chicago? And did you enjoy it.
We are off to a book exhibit in Boston, today until Friday, and one company has arranged for us to take the barge tour, which sounds like fun.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Town Cars are for men much older than yourself but if you like floating and swaying down the road in a car that depreciates like a rock, find one a year old and get a great buy!
As you know, color is one of the last things I care about but if you've ever owned a black car you probably won't want another one.
One of the cars we distroyed was a NICE Infinita Q45. It was spotless inside and out but it wasn't worth the 4500.00 we would give him under the clunker program.
When they poured tha fatal poison into it's engine, it was pathetic. It took it over a half hour before it siezed up. Anyone who cares about cars and machinery would have choked up.
Another one was a Land Rover Discovery. We called everybody we knew but we couldn't get a high enough bid. So it got killed and crushed!
There were others too. Nice cars that people could have been driving.
Sorry, the C4C program left me with a lot of mixed emotions.
Me too, there were lots of old "land yachts" destroyed for no reason IMO. The only thing I hope is that many of the interior parts, etc were used to fix up people's rides, and not just crushed. I'll never understand why the engines had to be destroyed. Why couldn't the VIN # be blacklisted from ever being legally titled again. There were thousands of perfectly good, used motors that could have been used by hobbyists, street rod builders etc. What a waste!
On another site I read, many people mentioned an influx of cars to the local junk yards (during C4C) they were able to swipe parts off of.
Very good thought. I imagine the reason that didn't happen is that no one in the process thought of it.
My mother-in-law turned in a 1998 Mercury Villager that was in excellent shape. It needed nothing. Brakes good, tires good, a/c worked. No reconditioning needed...."Very Nice".
But, yeah, why "burden" someone with a nice vehicle like that when they can walk or take the bus.
My point exactly!
Making things even more difficult for a struggling family to find inexpensive transportation.
Jip's Villager example is exactly what I'm talking about!
Seriously, clunkers were relatively inefficient and worth less on the open market than their clunked value. As good of a condition as it might have been in, it was still a clunker. If it wasn't, market pricing would have born that out and she would have sold it private party for more than the $3500/4500 she received for it as a clunker.
Giving a clunker to someone is a burden. The vehicle might be free but operating expenses - gas, insurance, annual registration, and repairs - are not. And with the possible exceptions of registration (varies by state) and insurance (too many factors to consider) clunkers will average higher operating costs in all of those areas. For every "cherry" Mercury Villager that got clunked there were several cars as previously outlined in this thread - ones that weren't actually safe enough to drive.
Don't forget that anything free is worth what you pay for it. A free car will find ways of costing the owner plenty.
Gas and insurance are no more than on a new car in fact the insurance and registration will be less. Yes, alot of the clunked cars wre junk but a lot of others were great cars.
In our side yard sits a 1993 Ford Explorer. It's the Eddie Bauer model and other than some peeling paint it looks good. The leather seats are near flawless.
It's a third car that doesn't get used much yet I wouldn't hesitate gettin in it now and driving it on a 2000 mile trip.
It has 163,000 miles on it. It starts right up, does not use oil between changes. It doesn't leak, drip anything. The A/C is ice cold. Recent new tires and brakes.
Now do you really think it would be a "burdan" to give this to some poor guy who needs a commuter to drive ten miles to work everyday?
" Higher operating costs". Well, what about car payments assuming the person can afford to pay them?
No when you give a gift you are responsible for the "income" (really gift) taxes on that gift. Of course there are yearly exclusions and a lifetime exclusion so that if you want to give me a Mercedes Benz you most likely wouldn't have to pay taxes on that gift.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So by taking all these low priced cars out of the market, they are forced into something more expensive.
Way the regs worked, the salvage people still had to pay a certain valve for the 'destroyed' car. The salvage company could NOT use the motor or tranny, but outerwise they owned the car and all fenders, radios, hoods, etc etc etc they could sell was fine.
So the upside to all this was that used part supplies should have mushroomed, with an associated drop in price.
Fushigi, Now i see what you mean...never thought of trying something like that. I am in Boston until Saturday, and so won't be near a scanner until then. I am working on my little netbook which is very difficult, but I will keep that in mind for next time.
Sounds good, not being much of a techie, I don't know these sights even exist.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard--
Is there a well-maintained, pre-owned 2003 Ford Explorer in his future or does it need to be traded in on the new vehicle?
Gogiboy
I have noticed that the blinkers on my Mazda are barely audible and sometimes I leave them on after switching lanes (like those old guys in North Carolina and Washington). :shades:
Not having quite reached true senior citizenship I wondered if there is a way to adjust the volume to make the blinker clicking sound louder? And, no I haven't been listening to loud music with earbuds so it's not about deafness--yet!
Gogiboy
Obama was giving her a lot more in C4C money than her car was worth. The Villager was worth around $2,500, she wanted a new car, and the credit from Obama was $3,500 (or $4,500)... a no brainer.
A lot of "nice" cars can fall between the $1,500 and $3,500/$4,500 category. The gov. spent all that money for people that could afford new cars, spend a little bit more and help those who can't afford even an older car, or whose current car is in need of major repairs which they can't afford.
For every "cherry" Mercury Villager that got clunked there were several cars as previously outlined in this thread - ones that weren't actually safe enough to drive
I never said to give away the clunkers that were unsafe. I said to give away the "nice" cars that would otherwise be destroyed. Can't help but think you're yanking our chain with all this, "giving a car to a poor person is a burden to them" stuff. :surprise:
Richard
As for giving the nice clunkers to the poor, there is a category called "the working poor". Many of these people are dependent on a car to commute to work, especially in the South. They are accustomed to paying for car insurance and up keep of a car.
Another suggestion might have been to give the nice clunkers to each state. Let government staff drive them instead of buying new staff cars. This would also have saved the taxpayers money.
If Washington had sat down for about ten minutes and given the issue some thought, the cars could have been put to good use. Then again, it isn't their dime.
Richard
At least I can still hear my blinkers and react accordingly.
Richard
As for Jeep reliability, the reviews by owners seem more positive than your thinking. Still, you have seen many cars in your career and have had a wealth of experience. I'll factor your view into my thinking.
You made no comment regarding the Ford Explorer. I know that you own a 1993 model that is in very good shape. Based on that, I would assume that you favor that vehicle---though not before the Honda of course.
Richard
After a while he called Houston Control for a check on how it was going.
Mr Glenn, This is Houston. Lift off was good, Trajectory was good, but
I noticed you had your left blinker on for the last 75 thousand miles.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
You're a man after my own heart.
"...look for a lightly used one."
Yes, I was thinking of a certified 2010 with about 10K miles.
Richard
Richard
Hope you are enjoying your trip to Boston. We were there last summer. It is a wonderful city.
Richard
Perhaps in a Town Car. Young officer, new to the police force turns on his lights, comes up to her window and says "you didn't use your turn signal back there".
She replies, "young man, everyone knows that's where I turn".
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Jeeps have had poor reliability for a long time. And it`s resale value will be in the tank. So a 1 or 2 yr Jeep is a great deal with respect to a new Jeep price wise but not so much reliability wise.
Ford Explorer is a totally new redesigned unibody version unlike the previous BOF version. So it's reliability is as of now unknown .And I expect it's resale also to be not that great. :shades:
I think you disliked the Pilot and 4Runner. I dont know if you only want a new vehicle or you would consider a pre-owned one too. A not so popular SUV would be the Dodge Durango/Chrysler Aspen twins. The newer Durango is from the years 04-09. And reliability for the later years 07-09 is pretty decent as all the kinks would have been worked out. The Aspen is just the fancier version of Durango . But looks better with better materials,better interior and more options. These things depreciate like a rock and so a 2 or 3 yr old is a real bargain. Fuel economy though is unimpressive but they are big,comfortable and can tow a lot. And they look good too. They dont look old or relatively outdated. Hope this helps.
The car mags are starting to test or 'first drive' them. Might look thru the car mag and see what you can find, or go to local library and see if they have the last couple of months.
Jeep reliability,
Ford Explorer
To bad you aren't Jay Leno, then you could buy one of each.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The term "clunker" certainly does not apply to a lot of nice older cars nor did it apply to a lot of perfectly good cars that were distroyed during the C4C event.
From cars.gov, the trade-in (not called a clunker; that's really a media term) must:
* have been manufactured less than 25 years before the date you trade it in and, in the case of a category 3 vehicle, must also have been manufactured not later than model year 2001
* have a "new" combined city/highway fuel economy of 18 miles per gallon or less
* be in drivable condition
* be continuously insured and registered to the same owner for the full year preceding the trade-in
"Nice" and "perfectly good" aren't part of the definition. If a vehicle was nice or perfectly good, then the owner had less incentive to trade it in. After all, even getting $4500 for a $2000 car still involves shelling out thousands more for the new car replacement.
Gas and insurance are no more than on a new car
How are you figuring that? Drive 100 miles in an 18MPG vehicle and you consume 5.55 gallons of gas. That same 100 miles in a car getting 23MPG consumes 4.35 gallons. While the per unit gas price is the same the units consumed is more in the clunker so the consumer does spend more on gas.
As for insurance, the cost for you or me to carry liability on a $2000 car will be less than for someone who is "economically disadvantaged". No, I don't believe that should be the case but it is. Check the notices from your insurer sometime and you'll see they use your credit rating as one factor in determining your insurance cost. Those with poorer credit ratings pay more (as they do for a lot of things).
registration will be less
Depends on the state you live in. Here in Illinois, title & registration fees are flat. However, neighboring Indiana bases registration fees on a sliding scale using the car's theoretical value as a guide with anything over a certain age (10 years IIRC) being at the lowest rate.
So an older car may be cheaper to register, but it depends on where you live.
(comments about an 18 year old SUV)
Yes, it can be a burden. Older cars need more maintenance & repairs than newer cars. The odds of having a sudden, catastrophic failure in the engine or transmission increase as a car's age & miles increase. And there's no warranty to cover the repair.
Even without repairs, routine maintenance is higher on older vehicles. For instance, older cars routinely have the 3K oil change interval while lots of newer cars go 5000 miles, 7500, or even longer. My '10 CUV never needs a transmission fluid change; how about your Explorer?
" Higher operating costs". Well, what about car payments assuming the person can afford to pay them?
If they can afford a payment then they likely wouldn't have qualified for the program. There are plenty of folks who can't afford any payment who would have been first in line for this hypothetical redistribution.
Why?
It sounds as if your lifestyle would benefit from having an SUV. Did you ever think of keeping your Explorer around as a third vehicle and buying an 08/09 Town Car? Upkeep would be minimal on the Explorer and you could possibly carry just liability insurance on it to keep costs down. In NC I am sure a third vehicle with liability only couldn't add much yearly to your policy.
I know you wouldn't have the trade in value to help you buy something new, however, if you went one year older in wouldn't be that much different in overall price.
Or if you search for a partial sentence clip of the article in google, you may find the ariticle in the newswire or other source from which the newspaper obtained it, if it's a national and not local story.
But I've found newspapers tend to share their local stories on the internet for other area newspapers to pick up and use.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My point is that this idea of giving the cars away to those who are in need may sounds like a great idea from a social service standpoint, but logistically it's a nightmare. From an economic standpoint, far more cost would be involved in running such a program. I'm not out to yank anyone's chain; just pointing out some realistic issues involved.
It's far easier and cheaper to administer a program where you're taking something in and removing it from the market than it is to try and do a wealth redistribution. To this day trash hauling is profitable while recycling generally isn't.
And let's look at how people behave nowadays. Give them something and they want more. Or if the gift breaks they want you to fix it for them. And if you give one person something, how are you justifying giving it to them & not their neighbor whose circumstances may be virtually identical? How long do you run the program? Till the need dries up, supply dries up, or for a set amount of time? (Hint: The need will never dry up)
How many lawsuits will be generated by people who were disallowed a vehicle (complete with discrimination allegations) or whose free vehicle proved unreliable? Whether the gov't would win or lose doesn't matter; there would be costs to handle the suits.
Seriously, what politician in their right (or left :P ) mind would create a program with so much potential for problems and so many ways for negative consequences? Giving away cars would have been far more complicated & costly than Reagan's government cheese program (which had its own set of controversy as I recall).
On a personal note, I grew up poor. My family never had a car less than 10 years old and might not have had any car at all if it weren't for my grandparents. Mom would sit literally in tears when she had to come up with the money to do something basic like buying a tire (a single tire; buying a set all at once wouldn't have been conceivable). She'd only put in $5 worth of gas at a time (maybe a quarter of a tank) as that's all the money she could spare. I know from first hand experience that repairs and vehicle operating expenses are a burden to the poor.
On a second, cheerier personal note, I considered using CARS last summer but while my sedan was not worth that much (10+ years old, 150K miles), it had a combined 21MPG rating so it did not qualify. My preference for CARS would have been any vehicle getting at least 4 MPG less than the new car should have qualified but that was not how the program was structured. Oh well.
OK, I give my Explorer to a struggling family that desperatly needs basic transportation.
Did I help them or did I "burden" them?
And, I'm not sure what the heck a CUV is but if it were mine, I assure you I would do 30,000 mile trans fluid changes no matter what the book says!
The Explorer calls for (I think) 6000 mile oil changes but since it's rarely driven it gets one twice a year which is about 1000 miles.
You see, I still take care of my "clunker".
My only point was the fact that a LOT of great cars were distroyed that could have been put to good use by people who would have cherished them.
The taxpayers should have filed a lawsuit for having to pay for a massive program that (1) they didn't approve (2) that brought no benefit to most taxpayers and (3) was discriminatory toward people whose cars didn't qualify, such as yourself. Personally, I resented paying for the program, and I doubt that it stimulated the economy to any beneficial degree.
If it had to be implemented, I still maintain that agencies such as school systems and government car pools could have saved the taxpayers some money. The gift document could have stated something like "not responsible for condition or reliability, etc.".
I think that this particular stimulus effort, along with others, has just put us deeper in the hole. Sooner or later, people will have to learn three things the hard way: (1) Start a regular savings routine, if it is only $5 a week. (2) Spend less by cutting personal budgets. (3) Buy as many American made products as you can find. Don't buy products that just say "distributed by" because they could still be made in China, etc. Buy products that say "manufactured" or "produced" in a certain state. It's not an easy task, but a careful shopper can find some of these products.
Unfortunately, people don't take such measures seriously until they are forced---as in the Great Depression. Example: My mother learned to squeeze a tube of toothpaste to the very end and then cut it with scissors into smaller pieces to get all of the paste. My father learned to use the fireplaces in the house. Things like sewing or patching garments, cooking a pot of stew, and parking the car became the norm. I'm a product of such a generation. I still cut a light off when I leave a room, turn the heat back at night, find uses for old newspapers, dine at home more than using restaurants, etc. I suspect that many older posters here do the same. I just hope that the younger generations can adapt when the time comes---and it is coming. There were 500,000 jobless claims last month and 90,000 additional home foreclosures. Still, there is hope. This, too, shall pass. In the interim, people need to be prudent in their decisions, and set their goals accordingly.
Richard
Your point about consumer reviews is well taken. Professional reviews have not been kind to the Grand Cherokee. Still, we are currently sticking with our three possibilities. Though we enjoy hauling small antiques around, the Town Car does have a very large trunk. We might not miss the rear storage in an SUV. We're still pondering, and there is no rush. We will eventually pull the trigger on what will hopefully make us happy. Thanks again.
Richard
Ford, on the other hand, seems to have it's act together and I really believe they are putting out some well made cars.
I've always liked Explorers and every generation is better than the one before. the 2002's and newer are, by far, the best.
But, they do depreciate at a steep rate which makes a two to three year old one a lot of car for the money.
Lincoln, I expect to disappear along with Mercury. They lost their market years ago.
Richard
Richard
Ford has some really important years coming up that can rise or sink its future. The Focus,Fiesta,Explorer all will be new .Fusion will be redesigned along with the overdue Escape. Ranger`s time is up. Edge is high on style,modest on substance.
But probably the most significant battle will be between Honda and Toyota with Hyun/Kia on their heels. Especially after Toyota`s recent interiors and quality glitches-- The Sienna vs Ody should be very interesting. Sienna`s interior has lots of plastic and the ride is also not so quiet. The new Ody--the exterior is so damn ugly,dont know why-- interior though looks good with good materials. Will be curious if Honda also cost cuts on their interiors. If not Ody can be a home run but again with that exterior--damn it`s ugly.
And then the biggie-- new Accord vs Camry vs Fusion vs Altima vs Sonata vs Malibu ??..That will be keenly awaited. :P