Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe · February 2007

I suppose there's no such thing as Santa Clause, either?

Now you're gettin it.

jmonroe

abraindrainer · February 2007

Again unless all other things are equal resale value should have little weight in the buying decision.

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Many things can happen to make resale a huge factor. BAM: your car is totalled! Or it can be stollen... or flooded. What happens if you have a major life event: birth, death, disability, job loss, move to a different climate, NY City or overseas and you cannot take your vehicle along? Snake, if you life is certain and you KNOW you will drive it to the grave, resale is less relavant.

Personally, I believe that most resale values are high or low for very good market reasons. There are some exceptions and I would not recommend chasing the largest percentage resale value. However, buying the cheapest vehicle with highest resale value is not a bad plan. I think the lowest TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP is the goal for most financial savvy people...

snakeweasel · February 2007

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Many things can happen to make resale a huge factor.

However the greater amount of time that passes between the purchase and that event the less greater resale value comes into play. How many people have to change out a car within 2 to 3 years. What is the odds of your car being totaled or stolen at all let alone in the first few years? its not all that high.

However, buying the cheapest vehicle with highest resale value is not a bad plan.

Actually I think it is a bad plan. Believe me people are not going around saying "I hate that cat but man I love the resale value I am going to have" Or "man that car is ugly-doesn't ride well- is way to small and so on but hey I have a great resale value".

I think minimizing the cost of ownership and getting what they like and or want is the goal for most financially savvy people.

suvshopper4 · February 2007

Your post #7969 about sizing up a prospect was great, lokki.
Stuff like that keeps me coming back.

(Hey, better late than never, right?)

nyccarguy · February 2007

$1000.00 to fix the air bag light...I thought you sales people were supposed to be the bad guys...LOL!

I agree with you regarding the whole CRV/Santa Fe/Outlander thing. The Koreans have come A LONG WAY. I think the Mitsu is a nice, rugged looking truck. There is a reason the CRV sells so well. It is the whole package + Honda Reliabilty & amazing resale value.

Take a look in your local paper. Check out what people are asking for used '02 CRVs vs. Hyundai Santa Fes & Mitsubishi Outlanders.

stickguy · February 2007

Weighing in a little late here, but heck, it's been busy at work!

Given how expensive cars have gotten, and life in general (I live in NJ, so maybe I am jaded), it's not hard to see why people end up with a 6 year term. And it sounds expensive, right?

Well, look at it as consecutive 3 year leases. You still pay for 6 years. But with a purchase, you skip 1K+ in bank fees, and other niceties that come with a lease.

Most cars are now built well enough that if you drive normal miles (say 12k/year), 6 years (72 months) is only 72,000 miles. Most cars you can get a 6/75 ESP from the manufacturer for not that much money, probably less than inception fees for a lease.

And as someone else noted, it keeps the minimum payment down. You can always pay extra when you feel flush.

For a while, I was buying 2-3 YO used cars with about 25K on them, and keeping them for ~3 years. Usually a pretty economical way to drive (plus I put on low miles), although I eventually figured out after one car dropped quite a bit in value that buying new and keeping for 6 years could be cheaper!

venture · February 2007

Well mine has been the most reliable car I have ever owned.

We just traded in an '02 Santa Fe and I can say that it was as reliable as any car we ever owned.

My wife drove it for over 4 1/2 years and we never did anything to it except oil changes, air filters, and wiper blades.

The resale wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either.

I suspect it will take a while before Hyundai is perceived as a good vehicle, what with their dismal start in the states many years ago.

jmonroe · February 2007

I installed $3k worth of components [retail value] for only about $1k.

That still sounds like a lot of money to pay for something that can very easily diminish your hearing if not worse in just a couple short years.

Now I'm going to show my age. I remember when cars had radios with one speaker, maybe two if you upgraded, and they made plenty of noise. If you were lucky those old tube radios cranked out 7 or 8 watts. I can still hear my father saying, "turn that damn thing down".

jmonroe

user777 · February 2007

i had never seen the show before (i don't believe in cable or satellite)... but when on travel it's nice to see what i'm missing and don't need in life.

anyhow, i had the same questions. but - someone enabled bad behavior before, and unfortunately, now that lady is stuck making further bad choices.

it seemed a tad preditory to me.

snakeweasel · February 2007

She ended up in an '03 Santa Fe for over 400 a month.

Its hard to make a decision when you don't know the term or interest rates. She could have taken a 24 month loan or had really bad credit and is paying 25% interest.

I had a friend that bought a Chevy Aveo for commuting and was paying over $500/month, but he only took a 1 year loan on the car.

kyfdx · February 2007

i don't believe in cable or satellite

They are real.. I've seen them... :surprise:

thenebean · February 2007

i can see the santa fe being sold for 14k, and with 6k in negative equity, bringing the total to 20k. a good rule of thumb to quickly figure out what payments should be...for every 10k financed over a 60 month term, thats a $200 payment...

so based on that information...it seems ok for the most part...i guess? lol!

-thene

[Deleted User] · February 2007

ROFLMAO!!!

I know they're real, I pay for them every month...

graphicguy · February 2007

I know old school training tells you that if you can't afford 48 months financing on a car, then don't buy it. I don't think that's bad advice. I also don't think that telling someone not to drink alcohol is bad advice. I just don't think that most people are going to follow those rules.

Jeez, moo....thanks! Are you saying I'm "old school"? I don't know whether that's a compliment or an insult....

Since automobiles are such a huge part of someone's life, I don't think there is much of a problem in financing longer terms, especially when you can pay them down early.

There's the rub. I've talked to relatives, friends, etc. All have good intentions in saying "I'm going to pay my car off early". I don't know of one instance where they actually done it, though.

No matter. I'm sticking to my 24-36-48 month rule. Even at that, I can still hear my dearly dparted Father say.."if you have to finance a car, you can't afford it". That said, if he knew how much I've spent on cars, he'd probably smack me on the back of my pointed little head.

graphicguy · February 2007

Now I'm going to show my age. I remember when cars had radios with one speaker, maybe two if you upgraded, and they made plenty of noise. If you were lucky those old tube radios cranked out 7 or 8 watts. I can still hear my father saying, "turn that damn thing down".

j....you just brought back some memories. You're making me feel old. My early wheels had little more than an AM radio. I hooked up "FM converters" to them to play through that one little speaker. That reminds me, is Casey Kasem still around?

isellhondas · February 2007

Born in 1932, Still alive and doing his weekend show.

" Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars"

He never sounded good in Vibrasonic though.

nthe · February 2007

"Hyundai has come a long way but they are still a Korean car with dismal resale values down the road.

Unless you plan to keep this a long time you may find you actually paid more for it in the end. "

this used to be true but not so anymore. there are pros and cons to each make, but hyundais are seeing a better resale than american makes right now. yes, honda and toyota are holder their value better, but you also don't get the warranty hyundai offers, and you pay ALOT more for the same features.

nthe · February 2007

"Still, you get what you pay for.

As far as resale, I know we sure can't get anyone to step up at all on Korean cars. They allways hit us well "back of book". The times we decide to take a chance and just keep one, they usually end up at the auction when they haven't sold after two months. "

where i am in birmingham, alabama, a local honda dealership bought 06 sonatas to sell on their used lot. if fact, its what convinced a customer of mine to buy a sonata from me (he traded in an accord). he said if honda thought enough of the car to sell them used, then it showed him that hyundai has come a long way from what you seem to think they are.

nthe · February 2007

"Personally, I believe that most resale values are high or low for very good market reasons. There are some exceptions and I would not recommend chasing the largest percentage resale value. However, buying the cheapest vehicle with highest resale value is not a bad plan. I think the lowest TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP is the goal for most financial savvy people... "

according to edmunds:
Total cost of ownership
2007 Sonata Limited: $41,511
2007 Honda Accord EX-L V6: $41,239

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/hyundai/sonata/100751633/cto.html

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/honda/accord/100782931/cto.html

edmunds also shows depreciation to be just about equal between the two

average cost per mile is $.55 for both cars.

nthe · February 2007

i dont really like this comparison, as the santa fe is a mid sized CUV, while the crv is a compact CUV. people seem to compare the two cause they are in the same price range, but the hyundai gives you things you can't get in the crv.

oldfarmer50 · February 2007

"No as it means 1.) that they are going to have to wait for that profit and 2.) the cost of maintaining an aging inventory goes up." In this case they gained no profit and still have the same inventory cost. I suppose this could have been a gambit by the sales manager to switch the customer to a slow moving car in stock but it still seems like a foot shot to me.

imidazol97 · February 2007

>Vibrasonic

????? Definition please. Must have been before my time. grin.

qbrozen · February 2007

edmunds also shows depreciation to be just about equal between the two

Regardless of what Edmunds says, the question is: do YOU believe it?

I seriously doubt I could find a Sonata and Accord, similarly equipped, with similar miles and age, that sell for similar money. Better yet, find those vehicles and put them side by side and find someone who would actually pay the same for the Sonata as they would the Accord. That's the real trick (and exactly the reason why used hondas fetch FAR more money than used hyundais).

abraindrainer · February 2007

If we take those numbers (personally, I am a bit sceptical) at face value, it is actually cheaper to own a Honda and that does not account for the value of other "non-financial" facets that are IGNORED by Edmunds TCO numbers. Advantage: HONDA!

isellhondas · February 2007

You need to read the fine print on that warranty.

Hyundai HAD to go to that warranty in an attempt to creat some confidence after the junk they first came to market with.

As I said, they have, indeed come a long way. I just think there are better choices.

zodiac2004 · February 2007

Hyundai has come a long way but they are still a Korean car with dismal resale values down the road.

Unless you plan to keep this a long time you may find you actually paid more for it in the end.

Craig, while I agree with what you say (except about the "come a long way" part) , coming from you that seems high-handed - especially considering your screen name.

mark156 · February 2007

I've never been a fan of Hyundai cars but my housekeeper bought a used 1996 Hyundai Excel with 40,000 miles on it in 1997 (1yr old ex-rental). I thought she was crazy for buying it at the time, but she still drives it today and it hasn't given her any trouble.

She has about 100,000 miles on it and has done regular maintenance. She had the starter replaced recently and the drivers door handle. The bluish-turquoise paint has started to blister on the bumpers and is kinda faded but doesn't look too bad.

If they are made better now vs. her 1996, that's a good way to go to get a lot of car for the money.

Mark156

isellhondas · February 2007

I'll bet anything those were ex-rentals. One of the rental companies bought a ton of these last year and they are now dumping them en masse at the auctions.

They are going over the block for thousands of dollars back of book! We bought a couple of them just last week.

They are great for the people looking for a deal on a slightly used Accord. When they realize they will be paying nearly as much as a new one, the Sonatas can be quite a buy!

And, they are a lot of car for the money as used cars!

They HAVE come a long way. I agree! They are still, however, a Hyundai, a Korean car with dismal resale value at least for the time being.

I suppose this could change at some point?

isellhondas · February 2007

I don't understand.

I agreed with someone that they have come a long way.

corvette · February 2007

There's the rub. Most people don't have the self-discipline to pay it off early, but have enough self-deception to tell themselves that they will.

dino001 · February 2007

They can't sell for similar money, as Sonata is cheaper new with same equipment. What is possible though that depreciation taken as a dollar figure from transaction price to trade, may be similar, thus amounting to similar cost of ownership, e.g. half of $22K (Accord) is $11K, but say 40% of $19K is $7.6 (Sonata), thus depreciation cost would be $11K for Accord and $11.4K for Sonata. Those values are made up, just to show possible mechanism of Edmund's logic.

asafonov · February 2007

I think you nailed it, Craig.

Hyundais and many domestics have improved tremendously over the years. However, for the bread-and-butter transportation, the price gap with the quality imports, when new, is just not enough for some people. Used is a different matter - Sonatas, Impalas, even Taurii, ex-rentals or not, make excellent buys for a thrifty car shopper.

w9cw · February 2007

I've owned Hondas, and they are fine cars. I've also owned Toyotas, and quite a few European cars - all have been fine and long-lived. At our local Hyundai dealer, I can buy a 2007 Sonata Limited XM Standard for $17,800, including rebates. An equivalent (feature for feature) Accord EX-L V6 would be thousands more. The Accord EX-L V6 is a heck of a car, but for the money, the Sonata Limited with its 3.3L DOHC V6 isn't bad either. Of course, I could buy an Accord VP, or a Civic at that price, but given the option, I'd take the Sonata.

isellhondas · February 2007

The cars you mentioned can represent a lot of value for the money. I sure wouldn't buy one new.

After 12 years, I have a lot of repeat and referral customers. I would like to think a lot of these people trust me to steer them in the right direction when shopping for a used car. I would much rather show someone a late model Hyundai than a Volkswagen especially if I know they don't have a lot of extra money to spend on repairs.

isellhondas · February 2007

Why not find one a year old and REALLY save a ton of money?

mazda6iguy · February 2007

I'll bet anything those were ex-rentals. One of the rental companies bought a ton of these last year and they are now dumping them en masse at the auctions.

Speaking of ex-rentals, what is the lowest mileage of cars you've seen as ex rentals? We bought a PT Cruiser that was an ex rental at 14k miles. Just the other day I saw another PT cruiser at the same dealer with 10k miles. Why do the rental companies sell the cars at so low a mileage. You would think that they would be selling them with at least 25k or more miles. I know for instance the average car that is sold at Enterprise car sales is at least 35 - 40 thousand miles old.

isellhondas · February 2007

They must have some time/mileage formula worked out.

PT Cruisers were certainly a "flash in the pan" weren't they? They are getting dumped at fire sale prices too by the rental co's. Our used car manager bought one for about 2500.00 back of book. It sat on our lot for three months before we wholesaled it.

mazda6iguy · February 2007

Our used car manager bought one for about 2500.00 back of book.

I am not a salesperson, so I am not familiar with the term "back of book". Pls explain. thanks!

isellhondas · February 2007

Sorry...it's a "car term".

A lot of cars fall into that catagory. This means the car is actually worth less, sometimes a lot less, than the wholesale KBB or NADA books say they ae worth.

Auction results are much more accurate.

qbrozen · February 2007

you are right. i wasn't thinking straight.

however, the poster did say depreciation was similar, which I still say is not reality (in other words, both would be 50% in your example).

graphicguy · February 2007

Both car companies make fine products. I do agree however, that resale on Hyundais is dismal compared to a comparable Honda product.

My son has had his Elantra going on 4 years. It's as tight and runs as well as the day it came off the lot. In short, it's built as well as anything currently on the market. Those early Hyundais were as bad as the early Hondas. Hyundai took a page right out of Honda's and Toyota's book, though. They improved their quality dramatically and priced themselves cheaper than other comparable models. No reason to think that their success won't mirror that of Honda and Toyota looking forward.

But, in the here and now, it's best to buy a Hyundai with the understanding you're going to drive it until the wheels fall off. Just a quick look at TMV for an '03 Elantra and an '03 Civic....and their trade value, shows the Elantra is worth 1/2 as much as a comparable Civic with similar options (Elantra=~$4,700 vs Civic=~$8,900).

That's a pretty big gap.

w9cw · February 2007

Yes, I would agree that's a pretty big gap. There's no question that buying either a Honda or Toyota is smart from a resale point-of-view. However, for those who keep a car for a decade or more, the picture becomes a bit more murky. Certainly your point on "driving it until the wheels fall off" has a lot of merit.

The gap can be closed, however, on the front end of the deal. I looked very seriously at a 2005 Civic LX sedan for my wife, but ended up buying her a 2006 Elantra GLS sedan instead in the Fall of 2005. The Elantra included a number of options not available on the Civic LX. And, the price of $13,500 delivered, including tax, title, and license didn't hurt either. So far, the Elantra has been perfect with no delivery glitches, no warranty claims, and excellent routine service by the dealer. For one who's owned Hondas before, this Hyundai is most impressive. Check back with me in 10 years . . .

lokki · February 2007

I think that might be a reasonable gamble now days. Let someone take the initial depreciation, and buy one a year old cheap. Drive it to your job at Burger King until it drops, and then buy another one. Better than a 5 year old GM car or an 8 year old Honda or a 10 year old Toyota for the same money?

I keep thinking how many old Daewoos I see, ugly and scarred but running. Those were pretty good buys if you picked them up for what they were worth.....ie. almost nothing.

Fortunately, Thank the Big-Mechanic-In-The-Sky TM, I don't have to think that way any more. I can go for a new car, with a warranty, from one of our friendly and helpful salesmen here, thank you very much!

kiawah · February 2007

The driving until the wheels falls off approach (of which I've religiously practiced) favors 'common high volume' cars in the out years however, from a parts accessibility and price perspective. I do most all of the normal maintenance and repairs myself, and it's hard to beat the parts costs on most common vehicles.

mikes2 · February 2007

Just curious why they're being dumped at such low prices??

Today was the first time I'd ever been in one - ironically a rental which will no doubt also get dumped in a year or so

.

I was actually rather (pleasantly) surprised at the interior, and my friend driving it said it was also better than he would have expected. I've personally stuck with Honda/Acura and Nissan, but the PT Cruiser was far better than some of the other Chryslers I've seen! Heck, it sure didn't have the misaligned interior panels that some recent Camrys have.

isellhondas · February 2007

Why? Because that's all they are worth!

The market will always determine pricing.

I think once people realized that a PT Cruiser is a Neon with a retro body, the novalty just wore off.

jipster · February 2007

Anybody got any juicy sales stories? If not how about getting off the computer for a minute and aggravating a few customers into going off? :P

A good Hyundai vs Honda discussion on resale value, but we need that guy who likes to "keep the conversation lively" in here.

Here's a great story that might get things started. I went into the dealership the other day to get a transmission flush on my Mazda MPV. The service advisor takes my information and keys then points me into the direction of the customers lounge. I walk over to the lounge... and kind of feel like I'm being put in time out. It is horribly small with only 4 chairs! But, they have enough room for one of those old fashioned popcorn carts and a 3 dispenser coin operated candy machine. Well, nobody makes the Jipster stand for an hour waiting for his chariot. So, I go over and park it at an empty salesmens desk. I get a few inquisitive looks from salesmen and customers alike. I almost thought one of the salesmanager was going to tell me to get off my aaa and get back to work. But, after about 30 minutes a spot opens up in the time out area. My van was ready in exactly 1 hour as promised. This is a brand new Mazda dealership that just opened up recently, and the first time I patronized it. The pan drop and clean with filter kit and flush was only $129...which I thought was a pretty good price. The service advisor also said they run $14.99-$19.99 oil change specials. WOO HOO! So, all in all... a pretty good experience.

isellhondas · February 2007

The other day, I couldn't believe my eyes!

A service customer decided to set up camp in my office!

We have a NICE waiting area with comfortable chairs and a couple of those chairs have computer tables built in.

But, this guy moved stuff I had on my desk, set up his laptop and a bunch of file folders and he was yaking away on my phone!

I went outside and walked the lot for ten minutes hoping he would leave but he didn't.

When I nicely asked him out of my office, he acted like I was being rude to him!

I guess he thought my desk was "empty" too?

qbrozen · February 2007

Did jipster at least put your stuff back where he found it when he left your desk?

;b

jipster · February 2007

LOL... he didn't eat the sandwich you had sitting out did he? Otherwise, I think what he did was perfectly acceptable.

But really... I certainly wouldn't go into someones office. That's going a tad bit to far. Assuming there were chairs and space available, there really would be no reason for it... unless he is intentionally trying to p#$$ you off.

This particular Mazda dealership I am referring to is small, as far as Louisville dealerships go. The salesmens(green peas I assume) desks were set out to the side of the showroom close to the cars and waiting area. I absolutely couldn't believe they only had 4 chairs available in an otherwise very nice dealership.

P.S You may want to start closing/locking the door to your office... sounds like you may be in a bad part of town.

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