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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?



  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    edited August 2013
    As you imply, the system is rigged. The VW Polo TDI that gets app 75 mpg is BANNED (through a series of economic and emissions obstacles). So as you ask the question: why would one want to drive a 30 mpg car RUG/PUG when one can drive a 75 mpg (D2) car? The system even as it celebrates the 50 mpg Prius for easily a decade (took several redesigns before the average drive COULD get 50 mpg) , really does not want a "wholesale" switch to 50 mpg vehicles (be they hybrid. D2 or RUG/PUG), especially @ this time. I can easily get 38-42 on a 04 Civic (sub $13k) Again, why would one want to spend $12k + plus more for a glorified Corolla ? Why not keep your Astro? (van?) NO payments are a VERY VERY good thing !! ??

    On the other hand, if one has a good diesel, the same applies. I have an 03 Jetta TDI with 180,000 miles that STILL can nail 44 to 62 mpg (50 average) and I am shooting at the least for 400,000 miles before a new clutch job.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Trouble is, new gasser technology isn't getting less complicated either. So the expense and training necessary to fix a new gasser may not be any cheaper than on a diesel (or an EV for that matter).

    That's one excuse I use to justify driving my 14 year old van.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    A good reason to shoot (short term) for 25 years on 2 TLC's 1994/1996. ;)
  • slorenzenslorenzen Posts: 694
    Awaiting (not so) patiently...

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 12,063
    You know, as much as that electrical gremlin on the Dodge GC drove me insane, I actually thought about waiting for the new owner to come back to it the other day when I saw it at Safeway to see if they'd sell it back to me. :sick:
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    We just got back from driving an 80 mile loop in the Mountains. Up to 6000 ft and back near sea level. The computer says 25.9 MPG for the tank so far. That includes driving it home from the dealer in rush hour stop and go traffic. I think I am going to like this a lot. Had a great breakfast over looking Cuyamaca lake. Sitting on the deck 75 degrees, was perfect. Great morning great Ute so far.

  • slorenzenslorenzen Posts: 694

    Beautiful rig.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited August 2013
    Yeah, really like the white.

    The car, not the hair (my beard is the same color as yours lol).

    You're going to drive us crazy with the mpg reports; we'll have to rely on the computer read-out since it'll be three months before you fill up again. :D
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    wow .. 25.9 MPG. My '06 ION struggles to get that in mostly city driving; even with some highway thrown in, I get around 26-28.

    To get that with something as large as the T-Reg is pretty impressive.

    If I ever come into a large sum of money that I could spend on transportation, I'd certainly consider it. Sounds like a great long distance tourer - a tank and a half to get from Denver to LA.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    So's mine..haha In fact there's a good chance the majority on this forum are white, lol

    It looks good, although it looks like it has the big wheels and consequently low(er) profile rubber...probably part of the Lux Pkg :( Love the style of wheels though :)

    I think you will exceed Ruking's mileage by a fair bit, since I don't think you plan to do as many mountains or run as loaded as he does..altho that is yet another joy with easily exploited torque...loads don't make a huge difference. So opposite of gas jobs. That 25.9 on 1st tank check, is very impressive for a brand new tight rig.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    At least I still have hair and it's mostly dark yet. :shades:

    "Once the whole emissions thing has been overcome, the typical sticking point for diesels in the U.S. is always cost. Diesel engines are expensive, so you pay up front for whatever efficiency you gain on the back end.

    In the case of the GTD, Volkswagen officials told us to expect a starting price similar to that of the GTI. They also told us the GTD could arrive with a highway rating approaching 40 mpg."

    For the good stuff that I didn't cherry pick out, check out the review:

    2015 Volkswagen Golf GTD First Drive

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    If you look on the average for the Touareg TDI is 26 MPG over all. I am anxious to get out on the open road and see what it can do mileage wise. 100 miles of up and down hill driving is not the best test. I will know more when I fill it again. Right now it has barely moved off the full mark.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    It looks good, although it looks like it has the big wheels and consequently low(er) profile rubber...probably part of the Lux Pkg Love the style of wheels though

    I would have rather had the 18" that comes on the sport models. I wanted the luxury features. I do like the wheels as they are simple and easy to clean. I don't look forward to replacing the tires. They are Goodyear Eagle LS2 265/50R 19" 110H. I have never been a Goodyear fan. Tire rack lists them at $293 each. They were made in Germany. I can buy higher rated Pirelli tires for less.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    edited August 2013
    I do not know the mileage on your new car break in. I would SUGGEST VERY gentle "equipment" break in, specifically: 500 miles ( min) to a more ideal of 1000 miles at speeds nte 65 mph and ideally 55 mph. The emphasis on the " GENTLE equipment " break in are the tires, alignment, brake pads, rotors, suspension.

    Probably of lesser priority, but equally important are to ID any deficiencies for the next service or special warranty visits to the dealer. Hopefully these will be NONE to few.

    But on the other hand, the warranty periods ARE the best time for stuff to crap out and get fixed. (new customer (30 days), 12 mo 12,000 miles pretty much fix anything (except customer abuse) , 3 year/36,000 miles, 10 year/100,000 A/T, 12 year rust through, etc.

    This is true if you see yourselves keeping it beyond so called "normal mileages" and time frames.

    As this is going on, I would also go for a slightly to moderately aggressive engine break in. Practical terms , nte 75% of redline (redline being 5,100 rpm or: 3,825 rpm. ) The use of the so called "shiftable" gate is very helpful here (gears 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1) So, do not be afraid to take rpm to 3,825 on the UP SHIFT and probably equally importantly on the DOWNSHIFT. Again, NTE 55 to 65 mph (500 miles to 1,000 miles). By 5,000 miles and certainly you should experience slight increases to MPG (1 to 3 mpg like for like conditions)

    Here is a link to some of the why's and how's Things To Do For The Life Of A Diesel Engine

    So here is to HAPPY new car break in !!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    But on the other hand, the warranty periods ARE the best time for stuff to crap out and get fixed.

    I did buy an extended warranty with $0 co-pay. It is 4 years 48k miles. It includes belts, alignment, service and one complete brake job. That was an additional $975. That is the only extra I bought from the factory warranty. My idea is to trade after 3 years. Whenever there is another killer deal.

    I am lovin' the Touareg entertainment system. It has slots forCD/DVD & 2 SD cards along with 20 GB of HD for MP3 music. It seems to read my 16 & 32 GB SD cards fine. It has a great interface for all my ripped CDs. I used to carry copies of my original CDs. I never use the originals except for ripping and making backup copies. It has several ways to list by artist, album favorites etc. Copying from the SD cards to the HD is a snap. After we had a CD jam in the Sequoia NAV we did not use it after it was replaced. This is great plus SiriusXM if we decide to continue the service. SiriusXM traffic is paid for 4 years. So far have not found anything they left out.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    So far I have kept it under 70 MPH. I did kick it a couple times from 30-65 getting into traffic. It has plenty for smooth merging. I will try to do varied driving with no Cruise for the first 1000 miles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    edited August 2013
    ( $718) Parts alone (not including labor) for the VW Touareg's (adapted from Ferrari's F 430) brake system. There is a GOLD lining JUST in the so called "complete" brake job !! Don't get rid of the thing until your first BRAKE JOB !!!!! :shades: Then when you sell it you can tell em you got a full brake job !!!! ??? ;) :shades:

    I can understand why you like the sound system. :shades: It is VERY cool! When my kids found out the 2012 Touareg could run the MP3, they got me one (BD) . I am sure they can run their IPad and IPhone music through it like they do at my house, but right now that is beyond my pay grade. Each also could watch separate and several full length movies on a 3 hour trip to Tahoe, CA. It is hard to beat a Sirius subscription for 4 years, included in the price. The rear facing console has a low watt A/C plug for charging. L's G !

    OOOO ! I am glad you mentioned NO cruise control (greater audience) , I just assumed you knew that, seemed redundant to mention it.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Nah, do like the motorcycle crowd and drive it like you stole it. Chances are the engine was pushed to redline at the factory anyway so I'd be more concerned about bedding the brakes in.

    Does the manual even recommend a break-in? Lots of manufacturers don't any more.

    HDD instead of a SSD? They cheaped out eh? ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    edited August 2013
    I did not go through (formal) brake pad bedding in and rotor conditioning. (procedures are described by some after market brake pad vendors- close to a series of panic stops) Given the inspected and measured wear, I swag a minimum of 80,000 to 100,000 miles from the oem pads/rotors. (Pagid/Brembo) I just used firm pedal pressure (no panic stops) and harder, albeit shorter braking rather than longer and gentler braking. One example of many "bedding procedures"

    It probably needs to be said that motorcycles really have much higher red lines (Ducati ST3 say NTE 9,500 rpm). This is not to mention that there are even far less diesel motorcycles than diesel cars percentage wise.

    But probably the importance of the whole gasser vs diesel difference is really at work.

    In addition, for TDI's 2,100 rpm (/5,100 prm= 41% of red line) in 8th speed and or D converts to 81 mph. (this happens to be an optimized RPM for all systems: best for designed temp operation, max torque, turbo operations - vanes movement, DPF optimum consumption, less regens, A/C, Heat efficiencies, mpg, etc., etc.) In AZ , where almost all AHP cruisers use radar guns, that just might warrant an undue customer service call ! ?
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    ( $718) Parts alone (not including labor) for the VW Touareg's

    I had no idea. Thought it was probably around $500 for a brake job and $150 for alignment. So the extra year and 12k miles under warranty seemed like a decent deal for $975. It was $1700 until I said, "I don't think so". Overall no real pressure on the add-ons like GM, Toyota and Nissan.

    HDD instead of a SSD? They cheaped out eh?

    This is a good point. Though with two SD slots I can add a couple 32 GB cards and have more than enough. I loaded 100s of tracks and used less than a quarter of the available HD. I think the CD will be a medium of the past in a couple years. What will I do with the 100s of blank CDs from my Karaoke recording days?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited August 2013
    I'm getting ready to glue one of my old "coasters" to the bottom of my "spare" (i.e., camping) Melita #6 filter cone so it won't fall out of the thermos when I make coffee half asleep in the morning.

    Otherwise - maybe skeet shooting?

    Don't keep me in suspense; what, if anything does your manual say about breaking in your new rig?

    (That's one irritating thing about VW - they, and Audi and Porsche, don't publish manuals online so it's hard to look stuff up if you don't have a hard copy. Well, Isuzu doesn't either, but they are gone. The idiots at Suzuki charge to download one, which is enough to make me say forget looking at the SX4. Saab and Saturn manuals are still around and still free to download. Yeah, that's a peeve of mine.)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    You're such a kidder. I don't read the manual unless I absolutely have to. It is very thick with real fine print. My wife started reading it the other night. As she took the second leg of our first little drive. I had he look up programming the garage door opener. So far everything you really need is available with menus in the infotainmentNAV system. Including the prescribed tire pressure and actual pressure on each tire. Of course it has all the usual oil level and time and miles to next oil change.

    Oh all right I will look:
    Says break in engine gently for the first 1000 miles. Do not exceed 2/3rds throttle. Do not go too slow either. About what ruking and others advised. Page 474 of the manual. about a paragraph long.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    edited August 2013

    I read 'em before I buy a new car (of course the one back in '98 was only 200 pages long, tops). Read the Prius V manual a few months ago (another painful one - free download, but it's chapter by chapter).

    Don't forget to read the separate nav manual. That's probably only 150 pages. :shades:
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    :) Still recognize a few names from 10 years ago, the IDNLSUVWDU threads...haha.

    Well, update is that in 2006 I took Rukings' advice and bought a diesel 2002 VW Jetta TDI..... absolutely fabulous. Ran 100 % biodiesel on it, did many maintenance and modifications myself.

    but last year, June 2012 , I was going 75 mph on I 5 near Bakersfield, and the car tire treads separated, fishtailed, and went into a rollover and slid over 100 feet into farmfields.... car was completely and utterly totalled, :sick: but I came out alive, which surprised the fellow good samaritans who stopped, the CHP officers, and tow truck drivers.

    Sold the Cayenne turbo. Bought another diesel 2012 Jetta TDI, which is nicer but cannot take more than 5% biodiesel. ( arguable).

    Sold the 2004 Corvette Z06 twin turbo with 1143 horsepower.

    Luv the diesels............. Thanks rukes. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,908
    edited August 2013
    Thank God you or yours' were not hurt or injured @ all !! Given your harrowing experiences, it might be a dumb question to ask, on what brand of tire did you have the blow out? :sick: :lemon:

    2009 Jetta TDI on this side. It is running really nicely. Strictly from a constant improvement point of view, I think the later (like yours) DEF systems are better than the 09 dedicated (non DEF) emissions system.

    I hope to see you at the next NorCA GTG !
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Don't forget to read the separate nav manual.

    It is part of the main manual, along with all the infotainment. So far it is all pretty intuitive. Took a bit to find the altitude indicator.

    There are two small manuals on using your cell phone and syncing the two. Then a warranty and maintenance manual. I a nice case with magnetic flap. So far everything is first class. Could be the fact it is their halo vehicle.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I knew that handle. You were one of the few that did not hate SUVs. Glad to hear you survived that horrible accident. VW always gets top ratings in crash tests. I don't want to prove them right. Where did you get the B100? I don't think anyone in San Diego area sells it. If a major company sold B5 I would run it for sure. I think that is more of a EU fuel.

    I am surprised you did not trade the Cayenne for either a Touareg or Cayenne TDI.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Wow, I knew you got a hot vehicle but you must really be flying. :shades:

    In honor of Tidester, I have to point out that the gizmo should be called an elevation indicator.

    But knowing California, maybe you meant attitude indicator and the spell checker didn't catch it. :D
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    edited August 2013
    You are correct. I expected the GPS device to give me a precise elevation reading. It varies by several feet in a very short time, sitting in one location. An Altimeter uses atmospheric pressure to determine the distance above a known level. I guess knowing exactly what elevation you are at driving down the highway is not real important.

    That said, does it mean that a GPS location is only 2 dimensional?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    I discovered the same thing with my (relatively expensive) hand held GPS back when they were only out for about 2 or 3 years. I wanted one with an altimeter, but soon discovered it was all over the place even standing still. Later as I got to thinking about it, I realized (assumed?e?) that it coordinates altitude by the various satellites it locks onto. But because we are in rotation, some satellites will drop out and others will kick in, thereby altering the relative coordinates to the GPS itself. If I have assumed this incorrectly though all these years, someone put me straight?

    The whole sat thing boggles my mind to this day. You set up a sat dish on the edge of the house and 10 years later it hasn't faltered with its lock on that sat. (except for atmospheric conditions or a jet or bird flying by of course) What makes this amazing is when you are adjusting it to find the sat during install, the slightest torque on the dish one way or the other with your pinky finger is all it takes to lose the sat.
This discussion has been closed.