It Lexus plans to sell very few of IS250, then you should definitely avoid of getting one as it is very likely that it would have a higher maintenance cost in the long run as result of Lexus will not likely to support it.
My next car will be the Lexus IS over the BMW 3-series. There are several reasons why I think the Lexus is better.
1) Quality and Reliability...I've had 3 BMW's, and all have had poor quality and reliability. I've lost much time and money owning the Bimmers.
2) Luxury Over Sport...I personally prefer a more luxury ride over a sporty ride. Don't get me wrong--this doesn't mean I don't like a sporty ride. I've had 3 Bimmers to prove it. What I mean is that I don't need to feel every bump on the road to enjoy driving. I need my luxury car to have a decent sporty ride.
3) Money...My wife and I plan to start a family next year, so I need to spend our money wisely. I plan to keep the car for 5-6 years. This means I need a reliable, good-gas-mileage, and low-cost-maintenance car.
4) Style and Ergonomics...I like the way the Lexus looks compared to the BMW. It looks more sporty and nimble. The interior is much better than the BMW. The ML sound system and navigation is definitely much better.
These are just my opinion. Now let the BMW fans start bashing me for voicing my opinion.
C&D thought that the ride quality was better in the G35 and the 330i than in the IS350.
Also, (at least from the tests) it looks like the IS350 gets worse mileage than the 330i, but that's not surprising given its power advantage and more weight.
I have been keeping up with news and discussions about the new IS and like many of you, I am looking to purchase one specifically a 350. I am curious however at how many members are thinking twice and having doubts about purchasing a new IS or a new car for that matter considering the sudden spike in gasoline prices?
I currently have a toyota mr2 spyder and get pretty good mileage. I don't know the official mpg for the IS but I'm pretty sure it will be less than my current car. i did have some doubts about getting a new car but the benefits that the IS provides over the mr2 will be well worth it.
Good question. To some it means quiet, smooth, refined, comfortable, etc. To some it means hearing the engine roar, feeling each bump or imperfection on the road, bouncy, etc. To others it may mean a combination of the two. Either way the term is highly subjective.
5) It is Unique. There are as many BMW 3 out on the highway as Ford Focus. 6) People will know you are driving a new car. Sure the 3 is a 06, but how many people can tell it is different than 04 or 05? 0) Above all reasons, It is a LEXUS
If it really hits 24/32, that will be pretty unique.
That's better mileage than the TSX, which is only 4-cylinder and the new Civic Si. May be better mileage than the Accord V6 too and close to the V4 Accord.
Of course, the acceleration is not all that but with premium gas over $3 already in CA, fuel efficiency should have more appeal these days.
Yes, if you get a minimum of 24MPG city, that will be pretty good as long as insurance rates aren't so high as to wipe out gas savings. The IS300 attracted mostly very young, reckless "tuner" types whose driving habits drove up insurance costs. Maybe these people will be complaining about how slow the 250 is and how expensive the 350 is and go buy an Evo instead which would normalize IS insurance rates over time.
DId the old 325i get those figures? Seems like it didn't.
The TSX and Civic Si both have 4 cylinder engines with less displacement on lighter cars and neither is rated at 24/32. So IF the IS250 auto gets those figures, I think it's pretty remarkable.
Corvette Z06 6.0L V8 with 400hp getting 18/28 Corvette Z06 7.0L V8 with 505hp getting 16/26
Those are remarkable numbers.
Now,
IS250 2.5L V6 auto with 204hp getting 24/32 is very good, but not "remarkable". IS250 2.5L V6 manual with 204hp getting 20/29 is pretty "unremarkable".
I guess I just have a higher standard when I say a car has remarkable mpg.
That's not to say that the IS250 (but only in auto form) gets very good mpg numbers.
Kidding, right? They said the Lexus shifter was almost as good as a BMW? Talk about damning with faint praise.... Either that, or they've never driven a BMW....
You want shifters that are "nearly as good" as a Honda.....
Knowing Toyota, I'm guessing that the shifter in the new IS will be top-notch... I'm just not too sure about this reviewer....
Thanks again for yet another link! You're certainly doing your research.
I thought I had read somewhere that the shifter in the IS was "rubbery," and was compared to the one in the manual-equipped Camry (4 cyl, of course). Let's hope they're (or I'm) wrong. The shifter in Acura's entry-level TSX is reportedly very slick, so I've got my fingers crossed on the IS.
If the shifter were TSX-level the reviewers would rave. That they bring up the 325i's shift is, as kydfx said, damning praise. That's like telling someone they're thinner than Michael Moore.
What do yal expect for the prices on the IS series to be? If anybody has an idea as to price breakdown based on the different models and drivetrains..please do share... Im ultimately deciding between the new IS350, Acura TL, and Infiniti G35 (sedan). Tell me if this (lexus) is a better choice over the other two. - alvin
If you were to buy any of those cars, you would need to drive them all and then decide which one you liked the most. When the IS is available for test drives, you will know the MSRP by then. The others have been out for years and will be discounted much more than the brand new IS, so the IS will cost more to buy in the beginning even if the MSRP is in the same ballpark range as the others.
There is no doubt in my mind that a BMW is a great sport sedan, and the shifter is probably slightly better then the IS250; but i think the shifter on the IS will do the job to the point that no one but proffesional drivers will notice the difference.
I think the price on the IS250 will be very competitive. One review claimed that Lexus promised the IS to be a class value leader. Also if you check out this forum a few pages back, someone posted some info on the option packages that will be available with the IS. The Option Packages are neatly broken down in Lexus fashion and should keep the prices down. My best guess is that the IS250/350 will cost about the same as the G35, but offer more luxury. So, an IS250/350 will offer G35 value with more luxury.
As far the size of the three cars (TL, G35 and IS), does the IS seem smaller, because ive been lookin at the lexus website, and the pictures make the IS look small, unless it really is small. To legar.. *do u know which page it is on?, cuz this forum thing goes 400pgs long, and few could be anything...lol..
I think even Joe average can tell a good shifter from average - although it's quite subjective.
Biker, who thinks the best shifting MT is the one in the CTS (better than G35, 3 series, TSX) - which strangely enough is made by Aisin - a Toyota subsidiary.
I do get 30 mpg on the highway using regular, NOT premium. I just drove from Indianapolis to Montreal in my Nissan Maxima (3.5L-265HP) averagind 69 MPH and 30.3 MPG for the trip. Only two complaints--torque steer on heavy acceleration and a sore butt from too many hours in the driver's seat.
I'm pretty sure I read it on another msg board (is300.net i believe) that one of the members tallied up the numbers and it turns out that the IS350 and the 3 series actually are tied. If you add the numbers for bmw's column in the C&D comparison, they actually added another point (whether intentionally or not, you decide :confuse: )
So regarding the 0-60 time of 5.1 secs., it's possible that C&D made another typo/mistake
Well, Car and Driver got the 268 5 speed auto Avalon to sixty in 6 flat, and 6.3 through the Street Start, so, to me, its VERY possible that Road and Track's number for the IS is off. (As in, the IS is lighter than the Avalon, has 40 more horsepower, and an extra cog, so why is a time 9 tenths quicker unreasonable?)
I dont understand the statement about using a preproduction model- wouldnt R/T have used one as well, so that doesnt explain the difference.
Besides, since it was a comparison test.... similar test conditions applied to all eight models, and regardless of the actual times, their relativity should tell something... the Lexus blows the doors off the other vehicles, period.
About the 0-60 numbers, I don't think there's anything "fishy" going on here. C&D usually gets the fastest 0-60 times for any car.
However, the IS350 did not ACTUALLY go 0-60 in 5.1s on the test day (and neither did the G35 get 5.9s or the 330i get 6.0s). I'm not sure by how much, but ALL of the cars tested were in actuality slower than the reported times.
C&D corrects for temperatures and test conditions, and I think it was really hot on the test day, which would usually have an adverse effect on straightline performance. Which means that all of the cars, including the IS350, had their times adjusted downwards.
Doesn't change that the IS350's relative performance was still hands down ahead of the others.
It is possible that the IS350's acceleration is not much affected by heat or cold for whatever reason, but we can never be sure.
There's a big, big difference between 5.1 and 5.7. The latter put it right in the ballpark of G35 and TL. 5.1 would make it exceptional.
Preproduction means it isn't the regular car that people can buy. Engineers can do all sort of tweaking to it. IS350 finished 2nd to 330 mostly due to its strong engine performance (earning it 1st place in that category) with the engine that does 5.1, not the regular engine.
Dude, theres not two different engines. If C/D thought they were being given a vehicle unlike what the public will be able to buy, they wouldnt publish performance numbers. That you are insinuating the test Lexus is not going to be the same tuning as one that the public can buy is based on zero facts; preproduction means that mass production has not started yet, not that each preproduction model has been modified for better performance in some way.
"Preproduction means it isn't the regular car that people can buy. Engineers can do all sort of tweaking to it. IS350 finished 2nd to 330 mostly due to its strong engine performance (earning it 1st place in that category) with the engine that does 5.1, not the regular engine. "
So which of the lesser evils would you rather have? A pre-production/production Lexus IS350 that is *capable* of doing 5.1s on a 0-60 or a *production* BMW 330i that had a faulty ignition button and ABS failure that resulted in a 360 spin at 70 mph on a desert hill road?
BTW, I confirmed it. I got the magazine during lunch and tallied the two individual columns. The bimmer and the IS350 tied .
I, like many of you, have read the C&D comparison test in their latest issue. I enjoy reading various mags not because the articles are so amazing that it keeps me coming back for more but simply because I am intrigued with the latest automotive news. However, I was most displeased with why they chose the 3 series to be ranked 1st place.
"BMW's win many of our comparison test for the same reason marothoners prefer running shoes to mukluks. They just work better for the task at hand."
Personally, I don't think this was a very good analogy :P . Well, duh, it's supposed to be a comparison test. For those that don't kow what mukluks are, they are boots worn by Eskimos. I don't think any of these cars that came in 2nd to 8th place are "mukluks" :P . Sure, I could understand this analogy if they were comparing BMW's to trucks. I really would have second thoughts about giving high praise to a car that "malfunctioned" and "its dash ablaze in emergency alerts". :sick:
Sure BMW makes great cars but based on this comparison test (2005 - latest & most current test) with all the problems that they experienced "shortly after it was delivered" it would be foolhardy to rank it #1. Heck, they even had to use their braking number from a previous test because their car spunout.
In reference to the hot temps during that day, "air-conditioning performance [was] now destined to be a major factor in the test". For the car they deemed #1, "the A/C struggled in the heat". They should proof what they write because IIRC, they stated that BMW "just works better for the task at hand"
To me, I just think if a car deserves to be #1, it's tops for valid reasons. C&D and other automotive mags should really check themselves.
Gee, they picked a number one sport sedan based on what it's like to drive. How odd is that? Don't they understand reliability, Mark Levinson, rear back-up cameras and 0-60 are what make a great sporting car?
Charlatans.
You know, those mugs down at R&T were similarly impressed. "More baby GS than 3-series competitor."
Idiot pigs. Where do they hire these guys? Local AA meetings?
Actually it's the 5.1 of C&D that nobody can believe and will ever duplicate. That 5.5 of MT also looks very suspicious, I bet Lexus handed them a preproduction too.
In all likelihood, IS350 still can't beat G35 in acceleration times, despite more hp and 4 more years of development. Remember C&D graded G as having the better chassis. So the only area that IS beats G is the interior, G prevails in all else.
"At the test site we measure humidity, barometric pressure, and temperature. To eliminate the effects of weather on performance, we employ proprietary empirical correction factors to adjust all results to dry air at 14.7 psi and 60 degrees Fahrenheit using PsyCalc 98 software (www.linric.com) to crunch the weather data. Since cars run best in cold dense air, our correction tends to add time to results generated in low-temperature, high-pressure conditions and subtract time from hot-weather, low-pressure tests."
Comments
1) Quality and Reliability...I've had 3 BMW's, and all have had poor quality and reliability. I've lost much time and money owning the Bimmers.
2) Luxury Over Sport...I personally prefer a more luxury ride over a sporty ride. Don't get me wrong--this doesn't mean I don't like a sporty ride. I've had 3 Bimmers to prove it. What I mean is that I don't need to feel every bump on the road to enjoy driving. I need my luxury car to have a decent sporty ride.
3) Money...My wife and I plan to start a family next year, so I need to spend our money wisely. I plan to keep the car for 5-6 years. This means I need a reliable, good-gas-mileage, and low-cost-maintenance car.
4) Style and Ergonomics...I like the way the Lexus looks compared to the BMW. It looks more sporty and nimble. The interior is much better than the BMW. The ML sound system and navigation is definitely much better.
These are just my opinion. Now let the BMW fans start bashing me for voicing my opinion.
Also, (at least from the tests) it looks like the IS350 gets worse mileage than the 330i, but that's not surprising given its power advantage and more weight.
C&D rated "ride" as:
330i: 9
G35: 8
IS350: 7
cars.com:2006 Review
Look at the Lexus-Estimated Fuel Economy (mpg), really bad numbers with a manual tranny. Although they are probably wrong.
I currently have a toyota mr2 spyder and get pretty good mileage. I don't know the official mpg for the IS but I'm pretty sure it will be less than my current car. i did have some doubts about getting a new car but the benefits that the IS provides over the mr2 will be well worth it.
I thought 850i failed because of price . . . too expensive.
Is their something wrong with suiting family needs?
If' that goal supplants handling and driver ergonomics, yes there is something wrong.
Then why bother with the sedans . . . go get a hardtop roadster instead.
6) People will know you are driving a new car. Sure the 3 is a 06, but how many people can tell it is different than 04 or 05?
0) Above all reasons, It is a LEXUS
That's better mileage than the TSX, which is only 4-cylinder and the new Civic Si. May be better mileage than the Accord V6 too and close to the V4 Accord.
Of course, the acceleration is not all that but with premium gas over $3 already in CA, fuel efficiency should have more appeal these days.
The IS300 attracted mostly very young, reckless "tuner" types whose driving habits drove up insurance costs.
Maybe these people will be complaining about how slow the 250 is and how expensive the 350 is and go buy an Evo instead which would normalize IS insurance rates over time.
Plus, the EPA of the IS250 manual is not very good.
The TSX and Civic Si both have 4 cylinder engines with less displacement on lighter cars and neither is rated at 24/32. So IF the IS250 auto gets those figures, I think it's pretty remarkable.
Corvette Z06 6.0L V8 with 400hp getting 18/28
Corvette Z06 7.0L V8 with 505hp getting 16/26
Those are remarkable numbers.
Now,
IS250 2.5L V6 auto with 204hp getting 24/32 is very good, but not "remarkable".
IS250 2.5L V6 manual with 204hp getting 20/29 is pretty "unremarkable".
I guess I just have a higher standard when I say a car has remarkable mpg.
That's not to say that the IS250 (but only in auto form) gets very good mpg numbers.
I'd like to get close to 30 MPG freeway, so I hope they're wrong, too. It will be interesting to see some "real world" results.
The IS is the first car in a very long time that I would like to own based on looks alone. It looks sleek and luxurious!
Here is something positive about the manual tranny, from The Car Connection.com
" The crisp, short-throw manual on the IS 250, meanwhile, was about as good a stick as any in the class, nearly as good as BMW's 3-er."
-- The Car Connection.com
You want shifters that are "nearly as good" as a Honda.....
Knowing Toyota, I'm guessing that the shifter in the new IS will be top-notch... I'm just not too sure about this reviewer....
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I thought I had read somewhere that the shifter in the IS was "rubbery," and was compared to the one in the manual-equipped Camry (4 cyl, of course). Let's hope they're (or I'm) wrong. The shifter in Acura's entry-level TSX is reportedly very slick, so I've got my fingers crossed on the IS.
Is it October yet?
If anybody has an idea as to price breakdown based on the different models and drivetrains..please do share... Im ultimately deciding between the new IS350, Acura TL, and Infiniti G35 (sedan). Tell me if this (lexus) is a better choice over the other two. - alvin
When the IS is available for test drives, you will know the MSRP by then.
The others have been out for years and will be discounted much more than the brand new IS, so the IS will cost more to buy in the beginning even if the MSRP is in the same ballpark range as the others.
The IS350 will be about the same price as the 330i.
Quiet...Shhh... Many I-must-have-a-manual-people do think they have an Italian last name...
Biker, who thinks the best shifting MT is the one in the CTS (better than G35, 3 series, TSX) - which strangely enough is made by Aisin - a Toyota subsidiary.
ON PAGE 395
Post #3941 of 3998 Re: Headroom [ckelly14] by cooney
Has all the stats. you are looking for.
Turns out they have reason. Newest R&T gave a time of 6.0 for IS350, much more in the expected range.
One possible reason was CD tested a preproduction IS. Maybe they should take a mulligan and redo the comparo with a production one.
So regarding the 0-60 time of 5.1 secs., it's possible that C&D made another typo/mistake
I dont understand the statement about using a preproduction model- wouldnt R/T have used one as well, so that doesnt explain the difference.
Besides, since it was a comparison test.... similar test conditions applied to all eight models, and regardless of the actual times, their relativity should tell something... the Lexus blows the doors off the other vehicles, period.
~alpha
However, the IS350 did not ACTUALLY go 0-60 in 5.1s on the test day (and neither did the G35 get 5.9s or the 330i get 6.0s). I'm not sure by how much, but ALL of the cars tested were in actuality slower than the reported times.
C&D corrects for temperatures and test conditions, and I think it was really hot on the test day, which would usually have an adverse effect on straightline performance. Which means that all of the cars, including the IS350, had their times adjusted downwards.
Doesn't change that the IS350's relative performance was still hands down ahead of the others.
It is possible that the IS350's acceleration is not much affected by heat or cold for whatever reason, but we can never be sure.
C&D: 5.1s
MT: 5.5s
R&T: 6.0s
Edmunds: 6.1s
Average: 5.675s
It looks like Lexus's estimate of 5.6s was pretty much dead on.
Preproduction means it isn't the regular car that people can buy. Engineers can do all sort of tweaking to it. IS350 finished 2nd to 330 mostly due to its strong engine performance (earning it 1st place in that category) with the engine that does 5.1, not the regular engine.
~alpha
So which of the lesser evils would you rather have? A pre-production/production Lexus IS350 that is *capable* of doing 5.1s on a 0-60 or a *production* BMW 330i that had a faulty ignition button and ABS failure that resulted in a 360 spin at 70 mph on a desert hill road?
BTW, I confirmed it. I got the magazine during lunch and tallied the two individual columns. The bimmer and the IS350 tied
CrimsonO2
"BMW's win many of our comparison test for the same reason marothoners prefer running shoes to mukluks. They just work better for the task at hand."
Personally, I don't think this was a very good analogy :P . Well, duh, it's supposed to be a comparison test. For those that don't kow what mukluks are, they are boots worn by Eskimos. I don't think any of these cars that came in 2nd to 8th place are "mukluks" :P . Sure, I could understand this analogy if they were comparing BMW's to trucks. I really would have second thoughts about giving high praise to a car that "malfunctioned" and "its dash ablaze in emergency alerts". :sick:
Sure BMW makes great cars but based on this comparison test (2005 - latest & most current test) with all the problems that they experienced "shortly after it was delivered" it would be foolhardy to rank it #1. Heck, they even had to use their braking number from a previous test because their car spunout.
In reference to the hot temps during that day, "air-conditioning performance [was] now destined to be a major factor in the test". For the car they deemed #1, "the A/C struggled in the heat". They should proof what they write because IIRC, they stated that BMW "just works better for the task at hand"
To me, I just think if a car deserves to be #1, it's tops for valid reasons. C&D and other automotive mags should really check themselves.
Charlatans.
You know, those mugs down at R&T were similarly impressed. "More baby GS than 3-series competitor."
Idiot pigs. Where do they hire these guys? Local AA meetings?
Well I feel better. At least that explains the ghost point towards the final tally.
CrimsonO2
In all likelihood, IS350 still can't beat G35 in acceleration times, despite more hp and 4 more years of development. Remember C&D graded G as having the better chassis. So the only area that IS beats G is the interior, G prevails in all else.
"At the test site we measure humidity, barometric pressure, and temperature. To eliminate the effects of weather on performance, we employ proprietary empirical correction factors to adjust all results to dry air at 14.7 psi and 60 degrees Fahrenheit using PsyCalc 98 software (www.linric.com) to crunch the weather data. Since cars run best in cold dense air, our correction tends to add time to results generated in low-temperature, high-pressure conditions and subtract time from hot-weather, low-pressure tests."
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=2509&page_number=2