What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever · May 2014

Maybe that's why VW's sales dropped 8.4% - buyers think they just sell diesels?

gagrice · May 2014

@ruking1 said:
..."Diesels accounted for 42% of Passat sales and 31% of all VW sales. Diesels usually notch 22% to 24% of total VW sales."...

I think VW sales show they are not offering enough diesels to the customers. I had to be very aggressive to find and buy my TDI. Looking at inventories the Passat and Sportswagen are the only models with a good diesel inventory. It is still a huge secret in the USA how superior diesel is to gasoline. If VW would boost their diesel inventory up to the demand they would have sold even more.

Audi has set sales records every month for 40 months now. And my guess, it is the wide variety of diesel models. They passed Cadillac moving up the Luxury list.

April sales mix for Audi TDI models: Audi A6 TDI at 14.2% on 303 vehicles sold; Audi A7 TDI at 11% on 90 vehicles; A8 TDI at 11.7% on 52 vehicles; Audi Q5 TDI at 16.2% on 532 vehicles, and for the Audi Q7 TDI at 28% on 410 vehicles; with an overall mix of 17% on 1,387 total TDI sales for April.

MB is holding their own at the top of the Luxury list. With more diesel models they are increasing their sales. They do not break down by model. The GLK is a big seller which I would bet has to do with that great engine in the sport ute.

Mercedes-Benz BlueTEC diesel models delivered April sales of 1,533, increasing 30.9%, and 5,456 year-to-date, up 6.6% when compared to the 5,116 diesel units sold during the same period last year.

BMW admits their sales increase was boosted by more diesel models.

Ludwig Willisch, President and CEO, BMW of North America. "The increasing momentum including launch of new diesel models in the X3 and 7 Series

ruking1 · May 2014

I am not sure of the (back) story line for the 42% TDI take rate of the US Passat, assembled in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I would not tend to think that that (high to higher than expected) TDI take rate is a VW sales burr in the saddle, so to speak. It may very well be, on the supply side.

For as bread and butter as the 2.0 L TDI is, and as good as the 3.0 L TDI is adapted for a host of (bigger) vehicle applications, and more importantly our roads; the 2.1 L MB GLK 250 T TDI is certainly capable of causing a real buzz.

It is .1L and another turbo bigger than the 2.0 L TDI. While I only put a few hundred miles on it during the test ride, I did indeed like it. Even with a 33 H EPA, it was a no-brainer to post 37/38 mpg (computer- as I normally post real world pen and ink calculations) . The increase in power (369 # ft over 236 # ft) was NICE to have.

On the TMI side, the redline seemed to be lower, @ 4,300 rpm vs 5,100 rpm. However the computer does the shifting in all three, so that might not be the real redline (ungoverned more like 4,500?). In any case, unless you know it has twin turbos (smaller @ low end, bigger @ higher rpm) , it is hard to tell with no A/B comparisons.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

I think a lot of that depends on geography. Here in CA it's easy to find the diesel car you want. CA, NY and MASS are the three biggest audiences for diesel cars.

ruking1 · May 2014

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
I think a lot of that depends on geography. Here in CA it's easy to find the diesel car you want. CA, NY and MASS are the three biggest audiences for diesel cars.

i am not sure I understand the practical application of what you are trying to describe.

So for example, LA LA land might be 400 miles away (from you and me). The local dealership that graciously let me test drive the GLK 250 BT (one of only two in inventory) also did a dealer search. ( for different combinations: color, options, etc.) Not to my, nor their surprise had other/more inventory both en route ( unclaimed and STILL on the BOAT ) or FOB or fresh off the boat ) or at any one of a lot of local dealerships IN LA LA land metro and suburban areas. So 400/500 miles away might be in the same state. Then there is ( aka, LOST WAGES, NV) VEGAS !!!!! ???? In MASS you might do 5 to 7 states for the same mileage (400/500) . I have long since been out of touch with the casino scene @ the east coast.

The driver here is the dealers logistical chain is geared to selling the correct product to the correct customer @ the correct location, time, etc., etc.

There were a lot of GLK 350's in inventory. They would have utilized the dealers logistical chain, say IF my DREAM 350 was in one of the 32 or so MB dealerships in LA LA, CA.

stever · May 2014

Don't try this at home.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI: B5 Biodiesel

ruking1 · May 2014

Way too funny !!! I was going to say we have a station JUST like the one pictured in the article. (dispensing B20) EXCEPT that on closer look, it IS the SAME station !!!

But yes, European oem's caution to use no more than B5. I am not sure about American oem's (Ford, GM, Ram) Or diesel transportation trucks. (Mitsubishi)

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

"strictly prohibited" sure sounds a lot like the equivalent of "your warranty is now in shreds"

that's interesting that the danger is fuel dilution. Similar to running an overly rich mixture in a gas engine.

gagrice · May 2014

@Stever@Edmunds said:

Don't try this at home.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI: B5 Biodiesel

I worked with a guy in AK that ran his Ford F250 on B20 from the time it was new. Also MB gave Pacific Biodiesel in Hawaii a waiver to run B100 in all their diesel vehicles. There is also a rental agency in Honolulu that rents Beetle TDIs running on only B100.

http://www.bio-beetle.com/

According to Kettle Foods, the Beetles, which run on neat biodiesel (B100) supplied by SeQuential Biofuels, are responsible for reducing the company’s annual CO2 emissions by as much as 13.5 tons.

http://www.oeconline.org/our-work/economy/biofuelsforubusiness/biodiesel-profiles

ruking1 · May 2014

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
"strictly prohibited" sure sounds a lot like the equivalent of "your warranty is now in shreds"

that's interesting that the danger is fuel dilution. Similar to running an overly rich mixture in a gas engine.

I am sure you folks would get vilified by "Harry Reid and dah boyz aid girls" with Henry Waxman carping solo in that cacophony, if a bunch of diesel owners experienced issues with using B20 to B100 and said they saw it in a recognized and august auto publication.

You will of course recall the brouhaha with the 04 Prius owners dis satisfaction and how the EPA changed Its testing procedures as a direct and indirect result. It still has taken Toyota (and more importantly) its owners to come anywhere near close to the touted nirvana like 04 EPA 60 C/50 H with any number of designs and COSTLY redesigns. Not that they would change EPA testing back, because a slightly bigger minority drive diesel vehicles rather than hybrids

With TDI's, all that needs to be done is to let those European ones that are able to get say 50 mpg INTO the country !! VW Polo @ 75 mpg has been around for almost quite a while ! It is a no brainer to me why barriers are there to its entry. . Me? I am just happy to go from a (4,800#) Toyota that gets 15 to 16 mpg to a diesel (@4,950#) that today and normally gets between 31 to 33 mpg.

A clear and unmistakable signal would be for the various legislative and regulatory bodies to allow approval OF TDI engine specifications for up to B100 .(aka, 100% biodiesel) Nobody of course would really have to do it. Obviously the ball would stay in the industry's court if done that way. The Dems could chalk it up to George Bush and the repubs RIGHT WINGO plot. In fact there would be some truth to it. But then the Dems have been in power long enough to make it happen and surprise surprise, it has NOT. So now the Repubs could say it was a Obama and Dems LEFT and pinko plot and again, there would be some truth to it. Or maybe we could lock up some poor has-been video maker in LA LA land trying to make it in the Hollywood big times.

Many folks privately and off line do run up to B100. Almost none experience issues due to running B20 to B100. Currently however, it is an outlier of an already outlier group. Even that outlier of outlier groups has a pretty interesting set of smoke and mirrors of which to deal.

Slow news diesel weekend. Filled far too early 15.4 gal/26.4 gal tank @ $4.09). Only had 479 miles. The fuel station depicted in your editors' piece today was $4.39 for ULSD. I could not draw a bead on the B20 as the station @ 6:38 am was PACKED !! ?? No need to further gum up the circulation on the property.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

I certainly wouldn't risk my warranty to run it. After that's over, then I think the problem requires further study by the individual TDI owner.

gagrice · May 2014

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
I certainly wouldn't risk my warranty to run it. After that's over, then I think the problem requires further study by the individual TDI owner.

I think the automakers are taking the high road on the issue. There are a lot of people out their thinking they are chemist making biodiesel that will run in a diesel engine. Some with good results and few problems. B100 is strictly for warm climates. Then you have the ASTM standards that are hopefully followed.

I am with you. I will wait until the automakers give biodiesel the GREEN light. For the companies like Kettle Chips and BioBeetles it is a way to get Green brownie points. If something goes wrong they can write it all off.

Propel does claim they will pay for any engine damage caused by running their biodiesel. For those willing to take the chance.

Conversely, if it is determined that an engine malfunction is caused by the fuel used, it would become the responsibility of the fuel supplier to correct the problem. Under our Performance Guarantee, if Propel fuels are proven to be the cause of failure to any warranted fuel system, Propel will fix or replace the damaged material at no cost.

http://propelfuels.com/resources/clean_fuel_faqs

ruking1 · May 2014

On the way to approaching 309,000 diesel miles, I have knowing used 12 or so gals of B5 (Chevron). Now let's hope they don't make that a felony !! Or if they do, the statute of limitations runs out !!

ruking1 · May 2014

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/next-gen-audi-3-0-liter-tdi-delivers-090005289.html

..."The new engine will initially be offered with two different power ratings, 218 and 272 horsepower, and peak torque is said to reach as high as 442 pound-feet (dependent on application). By comparison, the current 3.0-liter TDI delivers 240 hp and 406 lb-ft of torque in its most potent guise. Note, Audi’s sister brand Porsche has its own 3.0-liter turbo diesel V-6 that delivers as much as 300 hp and 479 kb-ft."...

The 3.0 L TDI will now have a few more iterations :

225/240 hp, 406 # ft, (current)
218/ 272 hp, 406/428/442 # ft. (tbd)
300 hp, 479 # ft of torque (rumored to be the new Porsche Cayenne TDI)

KCRam · May 2014

Just shows the power potential of modern diesels compared to not all that long ago.

The 5.9L Cummins in my 1996 Ram 3500 was rated at 180 hp and 420 lb-ft.
The 3.0L VM in the current Ram 1500 is rated at 240/420, half the displacement, 33% more hp, same torque than that '96 Cummins.
The 6.7L Cummins (same block, small bore/stroke increase) in the current Ram 3500 is rated at 385/850, 114% more hp, and 102% more torque than that '96.

ruking1 · May 2014

That is really true. For whatever reasons, folks might understand it better in the 1/2/3/4/5/6 series light trucks.

I was watching an episode of 5th Gear, where the 3 car testers (that every car geek wishes to be in their places) did a segment on "old" iconic vehicles and the new iterations. They even compared a V6 TDI against a V8 gasser. The upshot being: the newer versions are better on many metrics.

A lot of potential PVF diesel consumers (who're probably already gasser consumers) can have a hard time seeing why the diesel CARS do cost more, other than they do and have decided it is not worth it. Or the expectations are prices should be less to on par with gassers. My take, is fair enough.

Also diesel related, but in some respects not SEEN as related are down line/ stream subsystems and/or components; i.e., driveline, brakes and suspension . They should/ HAVE to be more robust. That robustness can cost more. The specifications can be WAY TMI for the majority of consumers, diesel consumers included.

Some of the differences can draw responses like, so Howard, what does that have to do with the price of coffee @ Starbucks?

Here is one example, the MB GLK 250 BT weighs app 178 #'s more than the MB 350 (4,246#'s - 4068#'s =, like model, 3.5 L vs 2.1 L=1.4 L BIGGER, etc.)

It STILL gets 8 mpg more !!!! (33/25 EPA H ) Another down side one has to project: what would be the mpg, IF the gasser weighed in @ 178#'s MORE than the diesel? Any takers say better mpg? Last one, what would be the effect of a 2.1 L TT gasser?

ruking1 · May 2014

38.1 mpg !!!

green.autoblog.com/2014/05/09/hypermiling-ram-1500-ecodiesel-38-mpg/

A former fellow poster @ it again in the 14 Ram 1500 4x4 Eco diesel !!!! (Junk in the bed also !

gagrice · May 2014

It seems Gerdes always uses Shell. Think that is by choice or promotion? I like Shell. I also use Chevron and Mobil. Not really sure which gets the best mileage. Will soon do some more highway testing. Would love to get even a 35 MPG tank. Though with my 80 MPH driving across TX I would be happy with 30 MPG.

ruking1 · May 2014

@gagrice said:
It seems Gerdes always uses Shell. Think that is by choice or promotion? I like Shell. I also use Chevron and Mobil. Not really sure which gets the best mileage. Will soon do some more highway testing. Would love to get even a 35 MPG tank. Though with my 80 MPH driving across TX I would be happy with 30 MPG.

It would certainly be interesting to hear how Shell products (ULSD) got stirred into the marketing mix.

In the NOR CAL region, there are mixes of ULSD branding. Some that come to mind, (by far not even close to naming most) Shell, Chevron, 76, Valero, Independents. While I do like Shell and Chevron, I also use indies (3 to 4 come to mind).

Even with documentation, I have to confess I can not tell a definitive difference. I can't even say a premium for a particular brand has a better price/performance ratio. As a consequence, I normally buy on price.

On the TX trip, 80/81 mph is really close to the optimum rpm (2,100 to 2,250) for our rigs. Another way to look at it is see what mpg those rpm convert to. In any case, the on board computer has an instantaneous mpg screen for micromanagement and eye opening. I am swaging that a steady 80 mph would let you post more like 31 to 34 mpg (sans 1 or subtracting mpg for bigger sized tires (19 in vs 18 in).

As per the posted link, Gerdes rightly covers some of the finer points coaxing optimum fuel consumption (sipping/hypermiling) for those that enjoy that endeavor.

On the 3.0 L TDI, I find Gerdes' techniques instructive in that he has chosen the floor of 47/48 mph range, accelerate to 55 to a maximum of 61 mph and then "glide and pulse"to keep the A/T in 8th gear, under load (important point, as diesels, function well under LOAD) with then engine rpm @ 1,250.

Since I have seen 39 mpg (as high as 39.8) on the downgrade (12 VW T TDI, no hyper miling , other than not using the brakes as much as safety will allow and using the 8 speed A/T to take advantage of no fuel draw) for 50 to 120 miles, I am swaging (since I have not ever done it) our rigs can get @ least that.

For the greater audience the EPA H are 28/29 mpg, 12/13 VW T TDI's respectively. So again the swag would be app 39% to 35% BETTER mpg minimum.

gagrice · May 2014

@ruking1 said:
On the TX trip, 80 mph is really close to the optimum rpm (2,100 to 2,250) for our rigs. I am swaging that a steady 80 mph would let you post more like 31 to 34 mpg (sans 1 mpg for bigger sized tires (19 in vs 18 in). As per the posted link, Gerdes rightly points to the finer points of optimum fuel consumption (sipping/hypermiling) for those that enjoy that endeavor.

I am not quite ready to be a hypermiler though I do try to conserve as much as possible without slowing down traffic behind me. I think you are correct about the larger wheels cutting into the mileage. I would have been happy with 17" if available. Not really a fan of the low profiles. Of course the nice thing is cruising at 2000 RPM I am at 78 MPH. The torque of the diesel holds that speed up and down the highways.

I also shop price and stations that I can get my 3% from Costco AMEX card. Too many Chevron stations around here have gone to charging 10 cents more per gallon for using a CC. There is a Shell and Mobil up the coast from me that are consistently less than locally. So we make an excuse to go up the coast for lunch when we need to fill the Touareg. There is also a library close by my wife likes to visit. Looks like Union 76 is the lowest priced name brand today. I used ARCO with my previous diesel vehicles. As it is BP which was the first to offer ULSD in CA before the mandate. They are cash no CC in So CA.

http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/76_Gas_Stations/Encinitas/30548/index.aspx

stever · May 2014

All eight of the recent cars we test drove had 17" wheels. 18's were on a couple of higher trim lines and 19's were an option on one. The Prius V had 16's. Forgot what the Transit Connect had off-hand.

My wife does roll her eyes a bit when I tell the salespeople I prefer the smaller wheels so I can save $100 on a set of tires. (And those 16's on the Prius are probably the most expensive, having the "eco" aura about them).

The pricey gas station in town has RUG for $3.79, diesel for $4.14 and premium was, iirc, $4.49 (or higher). Haven't checked lately but I think the other stations have diesel for $4.04.

ruking1 · May 2014

@Stever@Edmunds said:
All eight of the recent cars we test drove had 17" wheels. 18's were on a couple of higher trim lines and 19's were an option on one. The Prius V had 16's. Forgot what the Transit Connect had off-hand.

My wife does roll her eyes a bit when I tell the salespeople I prefer the smaller wheels so I can save $100 on a set of tires. (And those 16's on the Prius are probably the most expensive, having the "eco" aura about them).

The pricey gas station in town has RUG for $3.79, diesel for $4.14 and premium was, iirc, $4.49 (or higher). Haven't checked lately but I think the other stations have diesel for $4.04.

Upshot: smaller diameter tires, better mpg, longer life, cheaper to operate, replace, among other benefits.

I am certainly no tire expert, but anecdotally I am glad the 03 Jetta TDI has 15 in tires. I got 113,400 miles on a poorly rated OEM tire. The second set is well on its way to 113,400 miles also. I think the 09 Jetta TDI with 16 in tires will barely hit 90,000 miles. There are a whole lot of moved, moving variables, so obviously it is just not the tire SIZE that is at work here.

fintail · May 2014

Morning drive half on state highways half on interstates. Not too bad, but consensus is that this computer is ~5-10% optimistic.

stever · May 2014

What's the coffee cup icon about? I think I like it.

fintail · May 2014

It means "attention assist" is active.

stever · May 2014

Cool, an excuse to pull into Mickey Dee's and get a senior cup of joe.

qbrozen · May 2014

LOL

"its time for you coffee, Mr. Fintail."

"Why, thank you, HAL."

fintail · May 2014

I think when it senses that you are drowsy, a message pops up suggesting a break. I've never activated it - but I activate the lane departure warning a lot

ruking1 · May 2014

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/13/volkswagen-10-speed-transmission/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000589

Volkswagen introduces 10-speed transmission for better fuel efficiency
BY ANDY BOWEN @AN_DBOWEN MAY 13TH 2014, AT 4:51:00 PM ET

I am not sure what this has to do with TDI's, but if a 10 speed bullet proof DSG finds its way into a GTD (GOLF TDI) with 369# ft of torque, I would seriously look at it. I have liked the Golf platform for a while (36 years, starting with a 78 Rabbit I believe the platform is 40 years old or 1974) A 10 speed DSG would almost force @ least a 7 speed M/T. Needless to say a sub 3 k # vehicle would make it a SERIOUS pocket rocket.

gagrice · May 2014

@ruking1 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/13/volkswagen-10-speed-transmission/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000589

Volkswagen introduces 10-speed transmission for better fuel efficiency
BY ANDY BOWEN AN_DBOWEN MAY 13TH 2014, AT 4:51:00 PM ET

I am not sure what this has to do with TDI's, but if a 10 speed bullet proof DSG finds its way into a GTD with 369# ft of torque, I would seriously look at it. I have liked the Golf platform for a while (36 years, starting with a 78 Rabbit) A 10 speed DSG would almost force @ least a 7 speed M/T. Needless to say a sub 3 k # vehicle would make it a SERIOUS pocket rocket.

My question. Does a 7 speed cost more to replace than a 6 speed DSG? And so forth up the line to a 10 speed. My plan now is to trade before the Warranty is up. I find it hard to believe a 10 speed would have much advantage over an 8 speed.

ruking1 · May 2014

Speaking of th GOLF platform, JSW TDI with 6 speed M/T and DSG & 4 motion options,

http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-volkswagen-golf-sportwagen-this-is-it-1575583696?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

It's possible that a ten speed could knock a bit of time off your 0-60 (as the 8-speed Chrysler unit does on the Challenger) but the idea of giving "much" advantage over an 8 speed? Probably not. I don't think they'd be any more expensive to rebuild, once you've reached a certain degree of modular complexity.

ruking1 · May 2014

@gagrice said:
My question. Does a 7 speed cost more to replace than a 6 speed DSG? And so forth up the line to a 10 speed. My plan now is to trade before the Warranty is up. I find it hard to believe a 10 speed would have much advantage over an 8 speed.

Purely a swag, but MORE and even more up to 10 speeds !!!!

But then on the other hand, a 369# ft of torque DSG has some SERIOUS grunt !!!! I am unclear as to how much safety factor is built in. The 09 is rated @ 258 # ft with 236 # ft actual.

I barely am getting a real over all sense of the current 6 speed DSG. Sure, we are approaching 76,000 miles and the three to 4 drivers who drive it LOVE to like it to don't even notice or care. The DSG filter and oil change was boring and routine even as it was done 63% over the recommended interval. The reliability durability verdict is still out. I have yet to hit even 200,000 miles. (it seems a slam dunk to 100k)

As critics might point out, this is purely anecdotal. But then on the other hand, why discount anecdotal information? Anecdotal information are the stuff of what triggers anyone to buy/no buy, happy/ unhappy etc.

One thing I am noticing with 6 speed DSG's 7/8 speed A/T's are the "DRIVE/transmission" experiences can be tailored or NOT. Not can be defined as put it in D/S and DRIVE. One can of course tailor in the sequential shift gate or a combination. So far the 7, 8, 9, 10 speeds DSG's SEEMS to be more severe over drives geared more for better fuel mileage. (15% better for 10 speed is claimed) So if a Golf is @ 43 mpg H EPA, then we are really talking almost 50 mpg.

If one gets a M/T ( 5,6,7 speed) shifting is mandatory and so is driving "tailoring". Best mpg is usually achieved with a manual transmission.

The 8 speed A/T has been around for a while and seemingly has met the reliability and durability grades and is the current go to and in the future A/T .

elias · May 2014

is it interesting that VW has eliminated fuel-injection-cutoff on decel/coast-down, in favor of shifting to neutral and coasting... Evidently they have done so as a way to increase mpg. i saw mention of that for the next-gen 2-reg tdi.

? has VW used the shift-to-neutral-and-idle transmission programming as a way to "game" the EPA mpg test !? someone call mythbusters or that hypermiling Wayne dude, so they can independently test VW's new/novel/shift-to-neutral approach to coasting and/or hypermiling?

gagrice · May 2014

@elias said:
is it interesting that VW has eliminated fuel-injection-cutoff on decel/coast-down, in favor of shifting to neutral and coasting... Evidently they have done so as a way to increase mpg. i saw mention of that for the next-gen 2-reg tdi.

? has VW used the shift-to-neutral-and-idle transmission programming as a way to "game" the EPA mpg test !? someone call mythbusters or that hypermiling Wayne dude, so they can independently test VW's new/novel/shift-to-neutral approach to coasting and/or hypermiling?

Not sure what my Touareg is doing coasting down hill. Not freewheeling as engine is still turning. Though MPG computer says zero being used.

ruking1 · May 2014

The SERIOUS GTD grunt of 369 # ft of torque will not be happening for the 2015 MY. That should not be surprising for a host to any number of reasons. (to me) That kind of torque upgrade would require serious chassis and component upgrades, aka increased costs, where cost/prices are the extreme issue. It may well be both cheaper and easier to start with a platform meant for an engine with way more torque and related subsystems, than to frankenstein (being a technical term) a less adaptive one.

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/2015/road-test-specs1.html

But 280 # ft is PLENTY serious !! Both DSG / M/T are 6 speeds.

For as long as diesels have been out on the US market, (for professional testers) this was a tad surprising ...

"This was especially true when it came to grabbing the right gear at the right time. The DSG always nails it, while we often found ourselves in the wrong gear with the manual."...

Another tidbit

..."The Diesel Part

The idea of a GTD isn't new. Volkswagen has been building and selling them in Europe since 1982. Bringing it to the U.S. is the twist, one that finally makes more sense with the introduction of the company's latest 2.0-liter TDI engine."...

One real nexus here is the European "HOT Hatch" concept/buzz. It may or may not play as well in "Peoria" (USA) markets, so to speak. This is in the context of the US market being 25% so called small passenger vehicles fleet.

gagrice · May 2014

Most of the Golfs I see are gassers with lots of bling. A GTD would be a welcome addition for me as a daily driver. I hate taking the Touareg into parking lots with the barbarian hordes slamming their doors into each other. I usually take the PU truck with its various dings and dents I don't get upset and want to kill someone.

ruking1 · May 2014

@gagrice said:
Most of the Golfs I see are gassers with lots of bling. A GTD would be a welcome addition for me as a daily driver. I hate taking the Touareg into parking lots with the barbarian hordes slamming their doors into each other. I usually take the PU truck with its various dings and dents I don't get upset and want to kill someone.

I hear you there. The ribbing I get hit with: can you drop us @ the door, we don't want to walk the extra mile from where you chose to park ?

I seriously miss Smitty Built side TUBE bumpers, especially with the sand paper type (stick em) inserts you can put for... other people's DOORS It's good when almost everybody is afraid YOU are going to park next to them.

stever · May 2014

Just slop some diesel fuel on the offending party's door handle. That'll show 'em.

The fleet's TDI broke 20k. So they naturally took it to a solar installation to take some pics.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI: 20,000 Miles and All Is Well

Anyone name their cars? Rodney may be a good one for the TDI (as in Mr. Dangerfield).

ruking1 · May 2014

@elias said:
is it interesting that VW has eliminated fuel-injection-cutoff on decel/coast-down, in favor of shifting to neutral and coasting... Evidently they have done so as a way to increase mpg. i saw mention of that for the next-gen 2-reg tdi.

? has VW used the shift-to-neutral-and-idle transmission programming as a way to "game" the EPA mpg test !? someone call mythbusters or that hypermiling Wayne dude, so they can independently test VW's new/novel/shift-to-neutral approach to coasting and/or hypermiling?

With a stop/start engine feature (I am not sure what is the correct name) that might make sense. Indeed, of the ones' on the market, critics have been critical. However, from an operative point of view, engineering just has to beat both variables:

.2 gal consumption per hour @ idle
the cumulative effects of down grade " no" fuel draw.

Each of course has a fuel savings. Then of course it depends how the variables affect most folks in their real world environments and habits.

As a minimum one would expect better mpg (overall) . Not many folks are dialed into these obvious variables. (or maybe they are not very obvious)

ruking1 · May 2014

@Stever@Edmunds said:
Just slop some diesel fuel on the offending party's door handle. That'll show 'em.

The fleet's TDI broke 20k. So they naturally took it to a solar installation to take some pics.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI: 20,000 Miles and All Is Well

Anyone name their cars? Rodney may be a good one for the TDI (as in Mr. Dangerfield).

So where's the RED necktie?

Seriously however, the ability to post 50 mpg in a family sedan (Camry/Avalon size) in the desert is way cool ! The tester probably had the A/C blasting also. Speeds on that interstate are normally a slow (foggieish) 80 to more like 95 mph !! ?? Don't ask me how I know !

But I am ok with only 42/44 mpg (09 Jetta TDI) !!!

So sad, the 03 Jetta TDI would post only 48 mpg ) The worst fuel mileage I ever got in the 03 Jetta TDI was 300 miles in downtown Las Vegas driving @ 44 mpg.

elias · May 2014

R.U. King, i think you identified the key advancement/difference: the engine is actually turned off, no drag from the engine friction... And the power steering still works since its electric (?). that does change the math and multiple hystereses, apparently significantly...

that is pretty cool work, VW engineers - nice job!

stever · May 2014

And it'll reinvigorate the discussion we had a year or two ago about how cars can continue to run with no fuel being supplied to the engine when it's going downhill. Usually cutting the fuel off saves gas vs putting the car into neutral. This tech adds a third dimension.

stevedebi · May 2014

@stever said:
Just slop some diesel fuel on the offending party's door handle. That'll show 'em.

The fleet's TDI broke 20k. So they naturally took it to a solar installation to take some pics.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI: 20,000 Miles and All Is Well

Anyone name their cars? Rodney may be a good one for the TDI (as in Mr. Dangerfield).

After the first time she accelerated up a freeway on ramp, my wife named our 2014 Passat TDI "Millennium Falcon", or "Falcon" for everyday use. It's probably my fault; I just had to say "Punch it Chewie"... as I got shoved back into the seat.

BTW, the 2014 SE and SEL models have a chrome trim around the base that looks much better than the normal SE model. I thought the Edmunds long term driver was a Premium, but I don't see that trim ring...

Back OT for this thread, what it took for us to buy a diesel was to go down to the VW dealer and drive one!

ruking1 · May 2014

@elias said:
R.U. King, i think you identified the key advancement/difference: the engine is actually turned off, no drag from the engine friction... And the power steering still works since its electric (?). that does change the math and multiple hystereses, apparently significantly...

that is pretty cool work, VW engineers - nice job!

I think it is more of a cost benefit to VW rather than the customers. As for variable #1 .2 gal/hr i@ idle SAVED should equal as much as 5.8 mpg to 8.6 mpg better !! I am almost certain it does not come anywhere NEAR that. On a long downgrade more like 5 mpg. Again in the individual as well as aggregate variables, it does not come anywhere near that.

Our 27 mile commute (R/T 54 miles) with no traffic, 40 mins (dreaming here , except maybe for 2 am in the morning) , normally something like 90 mins. posts 39 to 44 mpg. Last fill was 41. So I should gain something like 7 mpg or 48 mpg? LOL ! AH ... probably not. (not that we are complaining about the 39 to 44 mpg. )

ruking1 · May 2014

@stevedebi said:
Back OT for this thread, what it took for us to buy a diesel was to go down to the VW dealer and drive one!

So LUKE, what about the test drive experience convinced you to come over to the DIESEL "DARK SIDE"?

stevedebi · May 2014

@ruking1 said:
So LUKE, what about the test drive experience convinced you to come over to the DIESEL "DARK SIDE"?

The acceleration and the MPG.

stevedebi · May 2014

@ruking1 said:
Our 27 mile commute (R/T 54 miles) with no traffic, 40 mins (dreaming here , except maybe for 2 am in the morning) , normally something like 90 mins. posts 39 to 44 mpg. Last fill was 41. So I should gain something like 7 mpg or 48 mpg? LOL ! AH ... probably not. (not that we are complaining about the 39 to 44 mpg. )

I haven't yet had to fill ours up, and even the trip computer is still inaccurate for average MPG, so I can't say how well it will do. My wife uses it to drive 26 miles to work daily (each way), mostly on the freeway at 70 MPH or so.

However, the manual clearly states that the fuel is cut off when not needed. I can see this on the "instant MPG" setting in the trip computer; every time you let off the gas, even in town, the display goes to "----", indicating cutoff; sometimes I see it going to a couple of increments first, like 300, then 900, then "---". The car just seems to glide. When you get slower the DSG transmission noticeably downshifts, which can be a bit disconcerting at first - but the engine still isn't using fuel.

Last Tuesday we took the car over Coldwater Canyon blvd in LA. On the downhill side the vehicle didn't use the fuel at all until we reached the bottom. I put the DSG in manual mode for the ride down - so I didn't use the brakes either.

stever · May 2014

Getting in over my head here but is that really any different from what most fuel injected cars already do? From Wiki:

"While coasting with the engine running and the transmission in gear, most cars' engine control unit with fuel injection will cut off fuel supply, and the engine will continue running, being driven by the wheels."

(I can't help but notice that you keep saying "we" and "our car" and yet your wife commutes in it and got naming privileges. Nice that you get to drive it on weekends at least. )

ruking1 · May 2014

This is way off topic, but our thoughts and prayers go out to the folks ( like Gagrice) in San Diego County, due to the wild fires.

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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