Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Studebaker management always seemed to have cash flow problems after the Korean War, combined with a rather militant union workforce. Then they started diversifying the company into kind of a conglomerate. Meanwhile the Big 3 got very aggressive in pricing to dominate even more. None of those things tend to lead to long term success. I thought it remarkable they hung on as long as they did and people like Brooks Stevens brought on some interesting design updates on a shoestring. Maybe they should have joined the Hudson Rambler merger into American Motors, but I've read that the S-P Chairman Nance let ego and what position he would hold in the merged company stop him from allowing participation in it. AMC went on a lot longer than many would have guessed back in those days.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2014
    The problem was also that their pricing was out of line with the product. There were no bargains to be had in a Studebaker showroom. "Gee should I buy a brand new '64 Corvette or add a few hundred for an Avanti?

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    xwesx said:

    Hahhahahah! You guys and that Pinto!

    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Tur-BO! Tur-BO!

    stickguy said:

    Stick a nice 302 in there. problem solved.

    "Steam Pinto!" George McNeir, creator of the MOG Canal Boat

    Steam Pinto?
    photo Steam_Pinto_02_zps17810b5f.jpg

    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh it's just overheating.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Oh it's just overheating.

    Oh sure, just keep an eye on the temp gauge and you should be safe, right?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No joke. One reason steam cars never made it is that they blew up with alarming regularity. You really have to know what you're doing if you operate any steam device.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,488
    hpmctorque said:

    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Oh it's just overheating.

    Oh sure, just keep an eye on the temp gauge and you should be safe, right?
    Looks like it might need a can of Bar's Leaks in the radiator.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,794
    edited November 2014
    explorerx4 said:

    @xwesx, That's not the engine from the Pinto.

    No, but it is the one that will go into it... at some point.

    Oh, and yeah, it is a 302. Nothing special, but a solid block, anyway. Who knows, by the time I actually get around to it (if ever), perhaps I'll have more money than sense and just go for a crate alternative. . LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I wonder how a Pinto would perform with one of those little 2.3 turbos like what went into the Mustang and T-bird for a few years? IIRC, they put out 140 hp, which was a bit more than a stock 302 in some years, but it was lighter than a V-8, so I guess it might be pretty well-balanced for something like a Pinto? The turbo was supposed to go into the Fairmont as well, but I don't think that ever made it past the prototype stage.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,850
    They go fine with a hipo 302 and tubbed.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    you can build a 2.3 up to something like 400HP---now, whether that is streetable or not, I don't know.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,794
    Ah, the possibilities!

    Okay, now stop it. :p
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,617
    andre1969 said:

    I wonder how a Pinto would perform with one of those little 2.3 turbos like what went into the Mustang and T-bird for a few years? IIRC, they put out 140 hp, which was a bit more than a stock 302 in some years, but it was lighter than a V-8, so I guess it might be pretty well-balanced for something like a Pinto? The turbo was supposed to go into the Fairmont as well, but I don't think that ever made it past the prototype stage.

    Actually, in the late '80s Ford had that little sucker up to 190 hp in the T'bird (and maybe the Mustang SVO). I don't remember what the V-8 was at that point, but it was little if any higher.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 266,357
    bhill2 said:

    andre1969 said:

    I wonder how a Pinto would perform with one of those little 2.3 turbos like what went into the Mustang and T-bird for a few years? IIRC, they put out 140 hp, which was a bit more than a stock 302 in some years, but it was lighter than a V-8, so I guess it might be pretty well-balanced for something like a Pinto? The turbo was supposed to go into the Fairmont as well, but I don't think that ever made it past the prototype stage.

    Actually, in the late '80s Ford had that little sucker up to 190 hp in the T'bird (and maybe the Mustang SVO). I don't remember what the V-8 was at that point, but it was little if any higher.
    IIRC the 5.0 was rated at 225HP.

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    My buddy put a built 327 in his Vega. I took a ride with him ONCE and it was terrifying.

    Same Vega brakes too!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    @ab348, worked for the Nautilus, should work for a Pinto.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Back on the cold idiot lights. I recently drove a car (sorry, can't remember which one), which had a light on the dash - that came on when the engine was cold. This was late model 2014, I think.

    I remember our 1972 Volvo 142 instructions said to turn to accessory for 30 seconds to let the oil pump work, before turning on the engine. Strange days.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2014
    Okay, no turbo. How about some simple mods for 170 horsepower. Just listen to that baby!

    Apparently this one twisted the stock propshaft like a pretzel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmlhrPxH7oA

    I know, they still sound like washing machines---but ANGRY washing machines!
    xwesx said:

    Ah, the possibilities!

    Okay, now stop it. :p

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    @MrShifty, Who dropped their pocket change in there?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,794
    Mr_Shiftright said:


    I know, they still sound like washing machines---but ANGRY washing machines!

    LOL; indeed!

    You rascals actually have me thinking up ways to get that old lump to Fairbanks so I can start tinkering on it next summer. *sigh* As though I don't have enough projects to work on already! B)

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You have to prioritize:

    cars
    beer
    family
    pets

    Actually now that I listen to that engine video again, I don't think it's running very well at all---LOL!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2014
    Nah, yours screams BARN FIND on a craigslist ad.

    Don't forget to put "ran when parked" in the ad.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,794
    stever said:

    Nah, yours screams BARN FIND on a craigslist ad.

    Don't forget to put "ran when parked" in the ad.

    Wait... you want me to LIE?! On Craigslist?! For shame!

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    stever said:

    Nah, yours screams BARN FIND on a craigslist ad.

    Don't forget to put "ran when parked" in the ad.

    Must be mandatory on ebay too. Maybe even in the U.K


    .

    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2014
    Hey, what a coincidence---I just did a "barn find" today, and here it is--just as I left it this afternoon:

    Yes, that's dust. Last run in 2003. It's a convertible.


    omarman said:

    stever said:

    Nah, yours screams BARN FIND on a craigslist ad.

    Don't forget to put "ran when parked" in the ad.

    Must be mandatory on ebay too. Maybe even in the U.K


    .

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,488
    A '72 would be the last year of the full-size Ford convertible. Full-size Fords always left me a little cold but that one might be nice to restore. What kind of condition?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2014
    It's a '71.

    Good body, paint and chrome; older interior basically in good shape; some small rust area (crusty) noticed under driver's door; worn out weather stripping all around, unrestored and old-looking chassis, bushings, suspension and driveline, bad tires, no brakes, fuel spoiled--you know the drill. I'd grade the car about a #3 minus. Probably worth about $5K. You can buy the world's nicest for maybe $15,000.

    it's got a 351 in it according to the VIN so that's probably better than the 429, which eats gas faster than a Panzer division going uphill in first.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Creative analogy, Shifty.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Even though I tend to favor GM and Mopar, there's something about the 71-72 Fords that I kinda like. Compared to a '71-72 full-sized Chevy, I think they're downright ugly. But I think they have more character than something like a '71-72 Fury.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,488
    andre1969 said:

    Even though I tend to favor GM and Mopar, there's something about the 71-72 Fords that I kinda like. Compared to a '71-72 full-sized Chevy, I think they're downright ugly. But I think they have more character than something like a '71-72 Fury.

    I love the '71/'72 Fury and Polara/Monaco. In fact I would rate those as my favorites from the Big Three in that era when it comes to full-sizers.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I'll backpedal a bit and say that I do like the hidden headlight model of the '71 Fury. And the Monacos with the hidden headlights, I like those alot. And in most years of that fuselage generation, I thought the Polaras and Monacos looked nicer than the Fury models did.

    Traditionally, big Mopars usually handled better than their GM and Ford rivals. I remember reading somewhere that even by 1977, when GM downsized their big cars, that the big, old-school C-body Gran Fury still compared favorably when it came to handling, at least. Of course it was more cumbersome in tight spaces, less space efficient, burned more gas, and was bad in a bunch of other ways, but supposedly it still handled well for such a big brute.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,665
    That Ford reminds me of a big bruiser I saw at a local auction several months ago:

    image

    Hidden headlights are always cool.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    fintail said:

    That Ford reminds me of a big bruiser I saw at a local auction several months ago:

    ...

    Hidden headlights are always cool.

    When they work...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Speaking of Mopars...

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4739955971.html

    I like the car but 25,000 dollars??
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    I'm a big 383 fan (dad's '63 Polara had one), but the modern trim on that 383 just looks wrong...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that's reaching for the stars. I'd say $19,5K is all the money for this car if it runs out really nice.

    Problem is it's got zero sex appeal for a Mopar. It's not a Charger or a Challenger, it's not an R/T or a Cuda, it's not a Hemi. It's mom's car with a sorta-big block and automatic.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,850
    Looks nice and clean though

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I was thinking more like 15K ish for the reasons Mr. S. listed.

    I'm a big fan of a 383/Torqueflight combo.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    edited November 2014
    I kinda like it...I thought the '65 intermediate Dodges and Plymouths made nice transitional cars...not as weird and offbeat as the '62-64 models, but not as boxy and refrigeratoresque as the '66-67 models.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,488
    texases said:

    I'm a big 383 fan (dad's '63 Polara had one), but the modern trim on that 383 just looks wrong...

    I cannot understand the fascination with catalog parts underhood. Leave what was there originally!

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    edited November 2014
    ab348 said:

    texases said:

    I'm a big 383 fan (dad's '63 Polara had one), but the modern trim on that 383 just looks wrong...

    I cannot understand the fascination with catalog parts underhood. Leave what was there originally!
    I agree, but I wonder if that's a modern crate engine, nothing original anywhere, then.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think people who buy '65 Coronets give a rap about authenticity.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    I don't think people who buy '65 Coronets give a rap about authenticity.

    Oh, I agree. I just don't think it *looks* right...and hey, you kids, get off my grass!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When I was in high school I watched a LAPD cop blast away from a green light in his Adam 12 Plymouth. Clouds of rubber smoke and the sound of that 383 taking off is something I still remember clearly. A 383 was nothing to underestimate.

    Except one night a guy in a Road Runner severely underestimated what my '64 Pontiac with it's 421 and three on the tree could do when he challenged me to a stop light Grand Prix.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What do you guys think of this Nomad?

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4746468601.html

    I know the guy who is selling it and I've seen this car in person many times.

    The body is razor straight and the interior is a new reproduction recently installed.

    If you look at the paint, the top is white and not the Shoreline Beige the car came with. Only minor flaws if nitpicked.

    Under the hood is a 350 crate engine. No A/C. I believe it has front disc brakes and a dual master cylinder.

    A funny story he told me.

    A couple of years ago he was in Montana (I think) driving on a two lane highway when he came across two slow moving cars that were being held up by something he couldn't see. He couldn't understand why they didn't pass this slow moving vehicle so after awhile he decided to pass all three vehicles at the same time.

    It turns out the slow moving vehicle was some guy on a Vespa! He blew by the Vespa at close to 100 MPH according to him when his fan decided to hit his radiator!

    He looked back in his rear view mirror and saw a little green man wiping antifreeze from his visor!

    Nope, the Vespa didn't stop when he pulled the Nomad over!

    So, what do you guys think it's worth. Seriously, it's VERY nice if you don't mind the mods.

    Oh, it has PW, PS and PS too! The first two are rare options.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,850
    edited November 2014
    I like it. But not the wheels. At least the mods make it a useful driver

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,665
    I agree. Make it more of sleeper, correct looking whitewalls and hubcaps, please. Looks too 70s hot rod with those wheels. Wuspension height might be right, other mods are harmless and make it better to drive. No AC is no fun. I don't know if "invested" is the right term either.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Can't really tell much. He's not advertising it correctly. He needs to list all his components and he needs way more photos. Street rods of this type are valued strictly on the quality of workmanship and what goodies it has (or doesn't have).

    You can find custom Nomads from $25,000 to $125,000. What's the difference? Well the $125K ones are meticulous rotisserie restorations using the highest quality components, super sounds systems, customized interiors and....oh...don't forget this one....lots of awards and press coverage.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,617
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    I don't think people who buy '65 Coronets give a rap about authenticity.


    I don't think people who buy Mopars give a rap about '65 Coronets.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    The Coronet has some suspension mods (looks lowered), but there were no photos or details.
    Turn down exhaust is in keeping with the sleeper image. It needs pictures on a lift for the money being asked.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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