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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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And EV and Hybrids come cheaper then Diesels ??
I have run the cost per mile driven to run EV any number of times. Guess what ? Everybody's eyes glaze over, like I am speaking an alien Area 51 language! Everybody's (by total lack of debate) OK with spending more! The problem is: nobody ( relatively ) really ...is!
I mean really guys, you know you anti diesel guys are all in denial! It really starts with a simple question: which consumes more/less (LIKE model MB GLK 350/250BT) 22 mpg PUG or 35 mpg ULSD ?
Europe wants Putin far less as a critical energy supplier than even us, the US!
Unfortunately that's likely to be 2050 and I won't be around to enjoy it. 2030 would be the best case scenario, absent some amazing battery breakthrough, and we've had 100 years to try to improve on that.
A battery powered car with the torque , mpg and the range of a diesel . And ofcourse no gasoline engine to save your bacon when you run out of juice in the middle of the Mohave desert .
Speaking of tasty breakfast meats, WHO puts bacon in the same category as diesel exhaust and tobacco. (theracquet.org)
Interesting blog post from the industry side.
"How the road-fuel market looks post 2050 depends in a large part on which technology wins favour. Which will be the Betamax and which the VHS of the new fuel revolution? "
The writing on the wall (argusmedia.com)
On the gasoline side even though my Land Cruiser's are approaching 23 years old & posting 14 to 16 mpg, the avg 2015 PUTruck & SUV is maybe 1 to 2 mpg better! I am being optimistic here!
Back in the early 1980s, I oversaw some test ranges, where & when they were developing drones. My reaction at the time after looking at the test data and actual tests, was: give it 30 years to hit the commercial markets. Not far off, eh? (33 years)
I have reached the conclusion I will live with the 16 MPG I am getting with my Nissan Frontier PU. For those worried about my bald tires and the El Nino rains we are hoping for, I put a new set of tires on this morning. I decided to go with BRIDGESTONE DUELER H/L ALENZA PLUS. Discount Tire matched Costco price of $128.49 so they got my business again. I give high marks to Discount tire. They include life time rotation and balancing. Much more positive ride than the old OEM Dumlop GRANDTREK AT21s.
http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tire/dueler-hl-alenza-plus
I see diesel and gasoline cars both tied to the same fate. Whatever happens to the one, will happen to the other.
Chevrolet's Colorado's TDI.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-chevrolet-colorado-diesel-first-192500578.html
"Diesels on the decline in Europe?
Ghosn said that the diesel market in Europe is going to depend a lot on the new standard. “Which means that we have to be ready for the decline of diesel no matter what—the decline of diesel in Europe,” Ghosn said.
“There is such a backlash on diesel today—which by the way didn’t start with the unfortunate event of one of our competitors, it started before...But I would say that today is about the maximum that we can expect for diesel in Europe.”
Volkswagen scandal woes spread to other diesel automakers in Europe (csmonitor.com)
EXCLUSIVE: Volkswagen Diesel Emissions Fixes to Begin in US in February
The fix is going to be an ECU flash. There may be more corrections for some models, but that's all that's being reported right now.
Responding to the Environmental Protection Agency’s notification that it had uncovered an illegal “defeat device” in some 3-liter, diesel Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche models, Volkswagen AG said in a statement Monday that it “wishes to emphasize that no software has been installed in the 3-liter V6 diesel power units to alter emissions characteristics in a forbidden manner.”
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/11/volkswagen-epa-disagree-defeat-device-3-liter-models/
I did see a Fisker (!) and a bunch of Prius V taxis, but no private Prius. Tons of E class diesel taxis too, of course.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The real anomaly is that gas hybrids are actually less % of the US PVF ! This is even though they've been ballyhooed, promoted, depicted as saviors of global climate change!
I also don't hold my breath for the definitive recall fix/es. EPA/CARB is going to jerk VW around for as long as they can, before they give reluctant approvals & blame their caused delays on VW. So my guess, from the time I get a recall notice, to when it hits the shop, should be sometime in 2018. If it is indeed a reflash as they anticipate. It should take all of 10 minutes.
The EPA and CARB set unreasonable and arbitrary emissions standards to persecute the VW.
Diesels will again be popular all over the world once these climate change [non-permissible content removed] are put in their place.
Health hazard from diesel car emissions have been blown out of proportion when there are more hazardous emissions from heavy machinery and trucks and locomotives.
What's been bugging me for months though, is why Vin Diesel drives a gasser Yukon, gives away gasser Dodge Chargers and drives Honda Accords in the movie....
Passat TDI == $25 K
BMW 328 d == $35k
I think this may be the dealer my sister got her Y2K Bug from. Haven't heard if she got the letter.
Volkswagen dealer sends apology to diesel owners (cardealermagazine.co.uk
I am merely asking the question: does one honestly believe that VW is the ONLY one? If one does, one is being stunningly naïve. The other truth is probably more like: lots to hid.
So why doesn't EPA/CARB pay that SAME West Virginia testing small business to test gassers using the SAME protocols ( in various segments) used to test those 3 diesels???? That place has literally fall off the face of the earth, on the lemmingistic journalistic brouhaha.
Anything less is framing!
So, the regulatory agencies have to figure out what they want, but they need to recognize that changing the rules after-the-fact doesn't mean vehicles built to comply with the original rules are now suddenly out of compliance with those rules.
In total, the U.S. transportation sector—which includes planes, trains, ships, and freight—produces around thirty percent of all U.S. global warming emissions. That’s an order of magnitude more than most countries.
So yes witch hunt!
I wouldn't sneer at a 15% raise.
So yes witch hunt!
"total basis"? nonsense, it's been found, and admitted far and wide. There is no reasonable question that VW had 'cheat code' in place, tested multiple times.
The accusations are being based on "real world" vs. "lab testing," when it is generally demonstrated that real world can and will vary from the lab. Again, what I'm saying here is that unless there is equipment/software onboard that is specifically designed to cheat the lab testing (e.g., the car wouldn't even pass lab testing without modified conditions), then there is no regulatory issue (except, perhaps, with the test itself).
So, are you were saying that you feel that VW is the only one ? I can be wrong, but I don't perceive you as being that naïve !
There is a suit in federal court in CA , where a plaintiff is pursuing the vehicle replacement remedy, due to a loophold in CA states' emissions laws. IF it is successful, I would want another diesel IF applicable to CA states app applicable 70,000 diesels!!! See I am not hard to please.
- The big bombshell was when the EPA told VW that they couldn't certify some 2016 diesel cars without more info. That's when VW admitted to their cheat code over NOx emissions. That's the ~450,000 US cars, 11 million worldwide.
- Then the EPA said VW cheated a second time, also over NOx. VW denied this. This dispute is over ~10,000 US cars.
- The third involves ~800,000 cars just in Europe over CO2 - VW's "own investigations have uncovered "irregularities" in a completely different part of the testing and approval process." (BBC)
I don't see how you can call the first bombshell any sort of witch hunt. Other manufacturers met new emission regs - VW decided to cheat and admitted it after the EPA asked for more info. The admission takes it out of the realm of accusation.The second cheat allegation has been denied so we'll have to wait and see how that shakes out.
The third problem is up in the air too because VW hasn't disclosed any details about the "unexplained inconsistencies". (eetimes.com)
Some of this is from memory so corrections are welcome.
Nobody calls for the elimination of gasoline when OEM's are caught cheating on gasoline emissions specifications.!!! Need another? EPA/CARB changed the EPA tests making it defacto favorable to gas hybrids when the 2004 Prius could not even come close to their EPA 60 c/50 h mph (@ 43/44 mpg) ! Was there a call to suspend all Toyota gasser vehicles, so the Prius issue could be resolved? Dah! So did Toyota lie? Dah!? CARB doubled down and not only continued the blather, but issued car pool exemptions !
So yes, complete & total witch hunt!
This has long ago turned into the Laurel and Hardy's "who's on first " routine!
Who? What? When? Where?
John German says:
He said while VW is in the spotlight, the entire auto industry needs to look at emissions in general. "There's an increasing gap between CO2 measured on test procedures (across the industry) and that reported by people in the real world."
"Manufacturers are exploiting flexibility, tolerances and loopholes in the regulations to be able to show lower emissions on the official test cycles, but they aren't necessarily being implemented in the real world."
http://www.theicct.org/
It seems like the only testing the EPA has ever done is in the lab. Safety tests, mpg tests, clean air tests, etc. and it is common knowledge that these lab tests results are all usually different than what happens in the real world. Now suddenly, and after the fact, they want VW diesels ONLY the pass real world tests. Something about this has a bad smell, and I don't mean diesel fumes.
If the EPA wants to make a change to real world testing then do so NOW...but don't attempt to backdate the effective date by several years, now that they know their tests are faulty and useless. A good case could be made that the EPA is in a panic because their faulty tests have been exposed and they are using the time honored tactic of pointing the finger at someone else to cover for their own incompetence. I can see where a good attorney could have a field day with this.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Between what you have concluded and what Gagrice is saying /quoted, those are the real battlegrounds. The truth is there are vast sums of monies to be made and lost! I've actually made more off the more "shadow" stocks EV/ hybrid/ battery/ etc., stocks than from the dramatic drops off diesel OEM's stocks!
Again, until VW admits IN &/ or is convicted IN court, I will continue to say allegedly or say innocent till proven guilty in a court of law!