Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright · February 2017

jmonroe said:

thebean said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

fintail said:
I am still curious as to what's really going on. Is it software? Or hardware? Or regulators picking things apart looking for an imagined slight? I just can't see what is going on, as neither the engine or platform are uniquely new. Plenty of W213s on the road now, plenty of the TT6 on the road now. Combining them shouldn't delay a car for months, when it is on sale elsewhere.
The dealer doesn't want to deliver a car because he is making a bundle off Driver's $80K cheque by investing it!
It doesn't matter to me....I am saving about $1000 on insurance since I don't have the car sitting in my garage.
Spin it a little more and you'll believe it.

jmonroe

I think you guys should get off Driver's rear-end. It's his deal and he is happy with the way it's going. I don't understand why it's so important to pick at him. It's not hurting any of you all.

I'm not picking on him. I'm just pointing out the facts as they have been presented here.

@driver100 has his own way of trying to justify things whether they are defensible or not.

jmonroe

Just like the rest of the human race.

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

Old perceptions are hard to change.

Check reliability on U.S. News
2016 E400

2016 Infinity G50

The differences don't mean a whole lot as the rankings are pretty close for most cars these days. But lets not always assume what may have been true 30 years ago.
I honestly can't stand the fact that so many published measurements of "reliability" are really just "initial quality" or "predicted." True reliability won't be determined for quite some time.

I always thought that too. Most new cars wouldn't have too many problems under warranty. Since 10x as many used cars are sold than new wouldn't it be great if they had a guide where they told you "most ten year old Ford Hupmobiles have the radio knob fall off and the windshield washer motor will fail after 10.5 years"

stickguy · February 2017

Problem Is, by the time you have enough data, usually the car has changed. So you never actually "catch up" really. Not for buying new cars.

I just look at it in terms of generally reliable brands/models, and can assume the new ones are likely to follow the trend.

andres3 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

explorerx4 said:
I was pretty disappointed with the interior of the Fusion Sport.
Seems like they ran out of money or something.
The seat material looks cheap and the center stack controls are from the 2016 Fusion.
My 2017 SE has a completely different center stack layout.

Like Fintail, I checked the inventory of a local Benz dealer. They have 28 E class listed. 26 E300's and 2 E400 coupes. I thought maybe they are holding back the 6 cylinder models because they are selling so many CUV/SUV's and are trying to keep their CAFE numbers up.
You have to add the Sport Upgrade Package to get the newer looking center stack. That includes the 2 - 4.2" LCD displays and the 8" center stack display, and the Sony 12 speaker sound system among other stuff. If you restrain yourself and don't get adaptive cruise, lane keep, BLIS, etc., you can have one for mid-30s. That's really not bad for a 325 HP, 380 lb./ft., AWD car.

The seats being only available in dark gray, and being suede and leather, made me not interested. I'm not a suede seat guy.

I took my Titanium out tonight and turned off the radio to listen to the squeeks and rattles. The only thing I heard was engine and tires. Couldn't find much hard plastic either except for the console top.
Impressive. Which engine is that?
That's the engine in the Fusion Sport.

OK wise guy I looked it up myself.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ford-fusion-sport-first-drive-review

Even more impressive. I figured the 3.5 Ecoboost but all that horsepower comes from a 2.7.

Ahhh, you are easily impressed. Audi was making the supercharged 3.0 from about 2010 onward (that's 7 years ago!), and it was probably underrated at 333 HP. Of course, the high-strung 2.0T in my TTS is making 300 ponies stock, but that's nothing new either, take a look at old STI's and EVO's using 2.0 motors for about the same power. Don't see too many still on the road though.

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

Here's a technical question.

Just noticed that the Lincoln's windshield has developed a small (3 inch) crack in the lower left corner just under the inspection sticker. I'm definitely not going to invest in a new windshield since at this point the car owes me nothing and I'm not sure they even make replacements any more.

What I'm wondering is if the "ding" repair places have the ability to patch a crack before it spreads or are they limited to just stone chips.

Anybody know? I might give the windshield place who did my son's car a call.

andres3 · February 2017

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

fintail said:
You get the German options ethos - everything is optional. I've read old jokes that in the past people would say even the fluids in newly delivered cars were extra-cost options.

You get a badge, styling that usually ages very well, and usually also receive driving dynamics and tactile feel that can be hard to beat.

jmonroe said:

If @driver100 did not get what you described I am pretty surprised, maybe even shocked, that an 80 grand car of whatever make does not have that. Even my dinky '15 Genesis has it.

Just what is it that you get with German cars, other than a badge?

jmonroe

Do you really expect me to believe you only get that with German cars. I'm surprised you didn't throw in the "it holds it's value longer". That may be true but aren't you paying up front for that?

All of this driving dynamics is lost on me. I never felt that I had to take corners quickly and have the car hold the road like that. I also never felt that it took a lot of skill to mash down on an accelerator peddle that someone else designed for you. I'm more of the type that wanted to design the accelerator peddle and what was behind it.

When I was a kid I always felt better throwing a ball (football or baseball) better than the other kids and especially the kids that ran their father's car's on Friday night to impress the girls how fast it was in the quarter mile.

While they were doing that, I was in the back of my fathers station wagon.

Some thing are more fun than others.

jmonroe
You're right JM, if it means nothing to you then it is a waste of money buying a fine automobile if it doesn't matter to you.
The Genesis is a fine car with a lot of toys on it for the money, but, it won't be quite the same. Some people appreciate fine wine, a good cigar, premium beer, steak instead of hamburger and a true German luxury car - compared to the wannabe car.
I'm always right. I thought you knew that by now. Mrs. j calls me a "know it all" and I'm not going to argue with her.

I don't care for wine, even some of the expensive ones I've tried over the years. I don't smoke. When I drink beer I stick to the almost local Yuengling's and I like steak and hamburgers.

Now about owning a true "German luxury car":

I don't want one, although I'm pretty sure I can afford most of them. At least up to an E Class. I admit I own a wannabe. I know my place in life and I can live with that. Some can't and some pretend that they must have "driving dynamics", as if you really need that on public roads.

jmonroe
"driving dynamics", as if you really need that on public roads.

I can't think of a more important active safety feature than driving dynamics. The ability to make an emergency lane change or avoidance maneuver without spinning out or spinning off the road is essential to me.

Like all safety features, you don't "need" it until you really NEED it, and then you'll wish while waiting for a tow-truck to pick up the wreckage, that you had it if it could have prevented the wreck you just got into.

For the same reason, I don't like skimping on cheap tires because that could lengthen an emergency braking stop, or lessen the amount of G-force you can pull when trying to avoid someone.
Any car I have ever owned has had enough "driving dynamics" to keep me out of trouble but I don't push my cars to the limit to see what they can do.

I use the accelerator peddle to keep me out of trouble not put me in harms way. Kinda explains why I have had no collisions or speeding tickets.

I will agree with you on tires. I buy the better ones when the OEM junk is used up.

You should try the @jmonroe method of driving, it's a lot safer.

jmonroe

Not sure it is safer, as I counter your zero at-fault accidents with an equivalent score of 0.

I hope it doesn't happen to you, but it is possible someone will cause you to be in a wreck through no fault of your own no matter how slow you go!

In fact, there is a funny video of a rich video game kid who's R8 was parked (not moving at all) and got creamed and totaled by a yahoo in a Mustang trying to accelerate in a straight line (and failed). You can't go any slower than parked.

andres3 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Here's a technical question.

Just noticed that the Lincoln's windshield has developed a small (3 inch) crack in the lower left corner just under the inspection sticker. I'm definitely not going to invest in a new windshield since at this point the car owes me nothing and I'm not sure they even make replacements any more.

What I'm wondering is if the "ding" repair places have the ability to patch a crack before it spreads or are they limited to just stone chips.

Anybody know? I might give the windshield place who did my son's car a call.

Yes, they can do "long crack repairs" just make sure the shop has someone that specializes in "long crack repairs" as apparently it takes a lot more skill to do it right than just a chip repair (which is often lousy work from what I've seen).

Also, if it's too close to the edge of the windshield (which it sounds like it is), they can't repair it. Sort of like a hole in a tire too close to the sidewall.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Here's a technical question.

Just noticed that the Lincoln's windshield has developed a small (3 inch) crack in the lower left corner just under the inspection sticker. I'm definitely not going to invest in a new windshield since at this point the car owes me nothing and I'm not sure they even make replacements any more.

What I'm wondering is if the "ding" repair places have the ability to patch a crack before it spreads or are they limited to just stone chips.

Anybody know? I might give the windshield place who did my son's car a call.

Generally not. A 3-inch crack is often too large for this type of repair, although now and then someone can pull it off. If the crack intrudes right to the seal, then it's probably hopeless.

andres3 · February 2017

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:
IMID...I didn't buy the loaner cars. I bought the one that's in the dealer service dept, going on two months, now.

Cadillac can try to spin it any way they want. They can try to duck the law. I think what they've been doing is a total disgrace to a once proud brand.

To make matters worse (and nothing to do with the CTS), I'm in WI for meetings. Had a Mazda 3 for a rental, which is probably the best small car I've ever driven.

Was driving on I94 doing the speed limit, middle lane. All of a sudden, a tractor trailer in the left lane decides to come on over in my space. I had no place to go as there was another car on my left. Yep....I got crushed.

I'm fine. Rental car did it's job, but I doubt it will get a 2nd chance to protect anyone else.
Glad your OK but what a thing to happen.....too bad you weren't driving your CTS.!

I hear about more and more of these things happening, I think driving is dangerous and is getting more so every day.

Probably a good thing it wasn't the CTS for 2 reasons

1) The CTS is overpriced and although the insurance company would take real-world current value, it could still be very high since it is still a very new car and that would cover massive repairs without totaling the car.

2) GM would probably blame the accident for the car's malfunctions, even though they started happening prior to the accident, I don't think that would stop them from making the argument!

.

imidazol97 · February 2017

andres3 said:
In fact, there is a funny video of a rich video game kid who's R8 was parked (not moving at all) and got creamed and totaled by a yahoo in a Mustang trying to accelerate in a straight line (and failed). You can't go any slower than parked.

They should write a book about that R8: Unsafe at Any Speed would be a good title.

roadburner · February 2017

graphicguy said:

roadburner said:
I've been working at the dealer for almost eight months so I thought I'd compile my Top Ten List of new BMWs that I have driven...

1. M2
2. M3/4 Competition Package
3. M240i
4. 440i Gran Coupe M Sport w/ M Performance Power and Sound
5. X1 M Sport
6. X4 M40i
7. 540i M Sport(G30)
8. i3
9. 750i M Sport
10. 330e M Sport

In other news, our local 1/8 mile drag strip opens next month, so the M235i will make its debut soon. I'm hoping it will post time in the mid eight second range.
RB....impressive list. BTW....are you officially a full fledged BMW sales person?

Thanks- and congrats on the Infiniti! As for sales, I backstop the regular sales staff; if every salesperson is with a customer than I can take an up and keep it. I can also sell a car if someone were to come in and ask for me.

andres3 · February 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

nyccarguy said:
Then he went to the Subaru Dealer and is picking up a 2017 Outback 2.5i Limited on Thursday. He wants to buy (4 years @ 0% financing). I told him to look into leasing because of the Outback's high residual.

This part of your post made me look at Subaru Canada's website for the first time in years. I have not been a fan of Subarus generally in the past but figured maybe they make sense on a lease. Turns out, not here. They don't list the residual outright but you can derive it from what they tell you and the Canadian branch is giving their vehicles ridiculously low residuals. I priced an Outback 3.6 on a 3-year lease and it was $612/month. A Forester was $550 or so. Crazy.
Can't be more rediculious than a lease on a Dodge Dart which had a 38% residual after 3 years. Something like $390 U.S.

You are too kind to the Dart, sir.

I just looked up the 36 month, 15,000 mile residuals for the 2016 Darts - they range from a high of 34% to a low of 27%.

And, the standard MF is being used.

There must be a ton of lease cash on these, but I don't see that information.
I'm going on what the salesman told my in-laws when they ended up buying last year.

27% after 3 years is dismal. Are these car that unreliable? Is there any other car that drops like that?

Funny my Ford dealer had one on his lòt back in 2015 and they wanted a lot more than 27% of MSRP for a 2 yo model.
There have been cars with worse residual, but I can only think of some a few years old---the Volvo S80, the Linclon MKS, Chrysler 200, Chevy Impala

27% residual after 3 years, on a Dodge? I can believe it. As a former owner, I'd say 27% is overly optimistic and inflated. Remember, obsolescence engineering, and the warranty is only 36,000 miles.

ab348 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Most new cars wouldn't have too many problems under warranty.

Unless you're GG.

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Most new cars wouldn't have too many problems under warranty.
Unless you're GG.

Yeah, but that's different. His car had a witch's curse on it.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2017

I think there are some cars with residuals as low as 22%--can't quite place where I saw that......

andres3 · February 2017

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

roadburner said:
I've been working at the dealer for almost eight months so I thought I'd compile my Top Ten List of new BMWs that I have driven...

1. M2
2. M3/4 Competition Package
3. M240i
4. 440i Gran Coupe M Sport w/ M Performance Power and Sound
5. X1 M Sport
6. X4 M40i
7. 540i M Sport(G30)
8. i3
9. 750i M Sport
10. 330e M Sport

In other news, our local 1/8 mile drag strip opens next month, so the M235i will make its debut soon. I'm hoping it will post time in the mid eight second range.
RB....impressive list. BTW....are you officially a full fledged BMW sales person?
Thanks- and congrats on the Infiniti! As for sales, I backstop the regular sales staff; if every salesperson is with a customer than I can take an up and keep it. I can also sell a car if someone were to come in and ask for me.

I'm impressed by #5 on your list, since you don't like FWD, or is the M Sport AWD?

driver100 · February 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Here's a technical question.

Just noticed that the Lincoln's windshield has developed a small (3 inch) crack in the lower left corner just under the inspection sticker. I'm definitely not going to invest in a new windshield since at this point the car owes me nothing and I'm not sure they even make replacements any more.

What I'm wondering is if the "ding" repair places have the ability to patch a crack before it spreads or are they limited to just stone chips.

Anybody know? I might give the windshield place who did my son's car a call.

Safelite is a company that I really like and respect. I had two stone chips filled on the E400. They can fill/repair a windshild that has a crack up to the size of a dollar bill. It should be done because it will strengthen the window making it less likely to crack further.

If you go online they will give you all the info you need...no obligation. Cost was about $100 each time.

andres3 · February 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think there are some cars with residuals as low as 22%--can't quite place where I saw that......

My guess would be Fiat, Chrysler, or Dodge. After that, I'd look up someone's top 10 list for cars that depreciate the most in their first year. I read one of those recently, and it usually has to do with inflated MSRP's which cause the calculation to suffer (along with poor resale value).

uplanderguy · February 2017

BTW, that Powers chart is for three-year-old cars.

driver100 · February 2017

Mr Bean, thanks for your post....I don't need to talk about it any more, I am fine, I will eagerly anticipate driving the new E in April. If some people want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, then let them waste their energy on it.

qbrozen · February 2017

andres3 said:

Ahhh, you are easily impressed. Audi was making the supercharged 3.0 from about 2010 onward (that's 7 years ago!), and it was probably underrated at 333 HP. Of course, the high-strung 2.0T in my TTS is making 300 ponies stock, but that's nothing new either, take a look at old STI's and EVO's using 2.0 motors for about the same power. Don't see too many still on the road though.

Well, heck, Volvo had a boosted 2.0 making 200hp starting in 1989. I'm sure there were others producing 100hp/liter, maybe even sooner.

andres3 · February 2017

jmonroe said:
@driver100 said:

That was all my risk, Mercedes can't do any more than they have been doing. The car has been in Canada since mid December and the government has taken it's time testing the car....nothing to do with Mercedes, I am sure they would love to be selling cars that are sitting on the lot. What we don't know is how long the testing takes, and whether the adjustments are always made in the country the car is sent to....I got a feeling that is what happens.

You are way too forgiving. If that was a GM dealer they would be crucified for doing something like that; just ask @imidazol97.

Mercedes should never have built a car that wouldn't meet specs for any country where it would be sold, let alone shipping it knowing full well it would have to sit somewhere until it could meet specs. I've said it before, your car will have its first birthday, or damn close to it, by the time you get it. If nothing else they should discount it for being that old when you eventually get.

That is what you should be talking to them about.

jmonroe

The differences between GG & Driver's situations in summary is this:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100

andres3 · February 2017

fintail said:
Well, it is just a fancy Golf, right? (teasing)

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

andres3 said:

I remember back in '06 when I got my first Audi, the '06 A3 - that an Inspector on my project mentioned slightly condescendingly how Audi didn't have quite have the panache or prestige of Mercedes or BMW.

I really didn't care, as that prestige and panache cost big money; which made the $30K out the door A3 a super bargain compared to other German vehicles at the time.

I'd rather keep up with those V6 Accord's in a straight line at the time than have some sort of intangible status symbol. Getting smoked by V6 Camry's forced the German car makers to raise their game.

I like the term driving dynamics. Speaking about cars and words, many of the new modern luxury and sport cars have variable personalities where you can adjust the dynamics of the car.

Most use terms like Comfort, Normal, Sport, and Sport+. No one seems to use "soft" and "hard." Must offend a portion of the population

I like how Audi does it; you have comfort, and speaking of driving dynamics, you have "DYNAMIC" mode. Auto and Individual are just combinations of those two settings on many variables. VW uses comfort, normal, and RACE mode. I'm fine with that too.

Even the new Kia I have has ECO, Normal, and Sport modes. @abacomike keeps talking about his ECO PRO PLUS mode in the BMW. Prius has Eco and POWER mode.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2017

uplanderguy said:
BTW, that Powers chart is for three-year-old cars.

The link cited a 2016 Benz reliability rating, so can't be 3 years old.

fintail · February 2017

I bet some automatic malaise era diesel vehicles can go slower than parked

andres3 said:
You can't go any slower than parked.

fintail · February 2017

I'm glad Driver is not letting the holdup raise his blood pressure, but if it was me, I'd be pretty firm in wanting specifics about the delay - not just "software", but what software, and why. Still seems crazy to me when the platform and powertrain exists in other configurations.

andres3 said:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100

uplanderguy · February 2017

Here's the Powers link again--2014-model year cars rated for reliability:

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA109095222.PDF

ab348 · February 2017

andres3 said:

The differences between GG & Driver's situations in summary is this:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100

Horse hockey.

Are you suggesting M-B never has recalls? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Read this:

http://www.autoblog.com/mercedes_benz/recalls/

I'm sure you can rationalize it away but it will make about as much sense as the other stuff you post.

Sure wish we had a "mute" function here.

jmonroe · February 2017

uplanderguy said:
jmonroe, the restoration shop that did my Studebaker was on Rt. 22 in Blairsville. I used to get off of 76 at Monroeville/Murrysville to get there. They did a very good job with my $ limitations up-front, and are still there.

I can't remember the last time I drove out on RT 22 that far (around 40 miles for me).

I took 22 out as far as New Alexandria (about 20 miles away) a couple years ago to take the Grandkids to the watering hole there (Keystone State Park). It's a poor excuse for a watering hole and the wiener stand ain't no better. :@

jmonroe

imidazol97 · February 2017

ab348 said:
Are you suggesting M-B never has recalls? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Read this: http://www.autoblog.com/mercedes_benz/recalls/

I can just hear the posts if GM had a vehicle that had spent 3 months on hold at the storage lot waiting for the software to be adjusted to meet the pollution requirements. There would be lots of complaining.

Maybe almost as much as the deserved comments about a recall where the replacement part isn't available.

driver100 · February 2017

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

The differences between GG & Driver's situations in summary is this:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100
Horse hockey.

Are you suggesting M-B never has recalls? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Read this:

http://www.autoblog.com/mercedes_benz/recalls/

I'm sure you can rationalize it away but it will make about as much sense as the other stuff you post.

Sure wish we had a "mute" function here.

Not sure what that is all about. I think every line of cars has recalls these days. Recalls are a way of life.....at least things get corrected and usually before they cause a real problem.

Takata airbags, if that was the point, were used in very few MBs, probably just the luck of the draw, choosing another supplier. But, the airbags are a Takata issue. If they are faulty the problem gets corrected as soon and as best as possible. Manufactures have to trust that suppliers did proper engineering, they can't test every part themselves. If suppliers have faulty products they will lose business - and possibly go under. New suppliers will fill the void, but it isn't the manufacturers fault!

My last 3 or 4 cars were all recalled for some issue, that is just a fact of life these days. btw......all the recalls I had were tweaks or minor parts, nothing too serious.

andres3 · February 2017

driver100 said:

fintail said:
The E350 is also seen as kind of an older person's car, for better or worse (not knocking it, I bring down the average age a little I'm sure ), and really, is something I would want to lease or buy CPO rather than new, unless I was going to keep it for 10 years. Initial depreciation is enormous.

graphicguy said:

There was the $3,000 price delta. That was big. If I were in a different frame of mind, I really liked the E350 and might have pulled the trigger given the price. Maybe in another 10 years or so, it might fit my wants/desires better. Really nice car. Not taking anything away from it, but I was surprised how closely the Toyota Avalon embodied the same feel, ride, and handling as the E.

Q50 came in at the last minute as I had not driven the 3.0T nor a Q without the DAS.

If it wasn't the Q, it would have been the Accord Touring...probably would have been able to buy one right around the $31-ish range. It was THAT good!

I hadn't read your post when I wrote the same fintail....I perceive the E350 to be an older persons car. It is for someone will be satisfied with something with less flair, less spirit, someone who doesn't care about "driving dynamics".

Like I say if I was getting the 4 cyl engine I would buy a C300, and even then I would prefer the 6. I think the E350 is for an older driver, or someone who just doesn't appreciate handling and spirited driving, but, wants to own a Mercedes. Probably more interested in gas mileage than having fun driving.

Regarding finding out about why the car is delayed, I really don't care that much. I am pretty sure it is government officials doing their job.....at a snails pace, not caring how it affects peoples lives or the economy. :@

Do they still offer a C350 and C400? I remember test driving the C350 and it seemed like a solid choice. The regular CLA didn't interest me, but the CLA AMG did, of course, none to test drive.

carnaught · February 2017

GG, congrats on the Q50. I think you'll find it will suit your needs and be reliable and enjoyable.

andres3 · February 2017

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

The differences between GG & Driver's situations in summary is this:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100
Horse hockey.

Are you suggesting M-B never has recalls? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Read this:

http://www.autoblog.com/mercedes_benz/recalls/

I'm sure you can rationalize it away but it will make about as much sense as the other stuff you post.

Sure wish we had a "mute" function here.

The problem with talking about recalls is that most of them are for extremely minor things that take a couple of hours in the shop to fix (at most)!

I'm specifically talking about @graphicguy case where his car has been in the shop for 2 months. What was the last recall you heard of that took 2 months of "down-time; meaning you can't safely drive your car?" Also, which manufacturer was affected by that recall?

The air bag thing only affects you if they blow up during a triggering accident; and ideally only during an accident, which is some negligent driver's fault. Unless there are cases where the airbags defectively exploded when they were not supposed to??

suydam · February 2017

Finally a dry sunny day! Took my Volt to the car wash. While I was waiting the guys were just finishing up a beautiful red Q50. Very sharp looking car. Congratulations, GG! You sure deserve it.

jmonroe · February 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think there are some cars with residuals as low as 22%--can't quite place where I saw that......

Probably the one in the dumpster in the Walmart parking lot.

jmonroe

andres3 · February 2017

ab348 said:
Either JDP or CR must be FAKE NEWS!!!

Well, I know which one I'm voting for!

Only one doesn't have their data ~~corrupted~~ influenced by ad space and ad dollars!

uplanderguy · February 2017

That is true, but I have at times scratched my head over the decades about how they gather and compile information from subscribers only.

andres3 · February 2017

I've often wondered if GM fans think CR subscriptions were only sold to an exclusive elite ~~cult~~ club of Pre-Registered Green Party members who have donated 4 figures or more to Ralph Nader's campaigns.

uplanderguy · February 2017

Is it really random?

Sometimes, I've chuckled over the years when things like audio systems show differing reliability between the six and eight-cylinder versions.

But you are right, they take no advertising money, a good thing.

andres3 · February 2017

uplanderguy said:
Is it really random?

No, because illiterate folks don't buy magazine subscriptions at the same rates as people who can read. Except for maybe Playboy.

nyccarguy · February 2017

@graphicguy - mazel-tov & congrats on the Q50! I wish you a pleasurable and joyous ownership experience. Please report your punch on CCBA!

tjc78 · February 2017

uplanderguy said:

Is it really random? Sometimes, I've chuckled over the years when things like audio systems show differing reliability between the six and eight-cylinder versions. But you are right, they take no advertising money, a good thing.

Well, if only the V8 model came with an upgraded radio it is completely possible. OTOH I see your point.

snakeweasel · February 2017

fintail said:

I bet it had good driving dynamics too. The sport model Audis tend to have good driving dynamics,. Driving dynamics are something the Germans have focused on for decades, and for most cases, found success. Whether it be sport, luxury, or usually, varying degrees of both (BMW favoring sport, MB favoring lux, Audo depending on model), driving dynamics are something they understand. This is likely due to driving being a serious business there, and the generally superior condition of their roads. Even my dear old fintail has nice driving dynamics - it floats down the road at speed and handles fairly well (just get used to body roll and the swing axle). I am not sure if I can say more about driving dynamics, but it's fun to use the term

Here is my take on "driving dynamics". It's meaningless if the drivers skill is not up to the dynamics of the car, and let's face it most drivers skills aren't up that high. I would say that for the vast majority of drivers in an emergency situation would do as well in a Chevy as they would an Audi.

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

The differences between GG & Driver's situations in summary is this:

1) GM has a product, engineering, assembly, and quality control issue with their product.

2) Mercedes has a management issue with dealing with governmental regulations and leading customers on with promises and delivery dates they can't possibly make.

3) GM management can also be blamed, but they still have a product issue. I'm sure the Mercedes is fine to drive and if Canada would ignore the issue it would never detrimentally effect @driver100
Horse hockey.

Are you suggesting M-B never has recalls? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Read this:

http://www.autoblog.com/mercedes_benz/recalls/

I'm sure you can rationalize it away but it will make about as much sense as the other stuff you post.

Sure wish we had a "mute" function here.
Not sure what that is all about. I think every line of cars has recalls these days. Recalls are a way of life.....at least things get corrected and usually before they cause a real problem.

Takata airbags, if that was the point, were used in very few MBs, probably just the luck of the draw, choosing another supplier. But, the airbags are a Takata issue. If they are faulty the problem gets corrected as soon and as best as possible. Manufactures have to trust that suppliers did proper engineering, they can't test every part themselves. If suppliers have faulty products they will lose business - and possibly go under. New suppliers will fill the void, but it isn't the manufacturers fault!

My last 3 or 4 cars were all recalled for some issue, that is just a fact of life these days. btw......all the recalls I had were tweaks or minor parts, nothing too serious.

My Mitsu never had a recall or major problem but it's down near the bottom of JD Powers. Ford ranks worse but the Mustang has been fine. That might not mean anything since I've only got about 7500 miles on it.

oldfarmer50 · February 2017

andres3 said:

uplanderguy said:
Is it really random?
No, because illiterate folks don't buy magazine subscriptions at the same rates as people who can read. Except for maybe Playboy.

I don't know but it seemed that once they dropped the girlie pictures the articles weren't as interesting.

suydam · February 2017

It's statistical, not anecdotal, so your personal experience can be fine while the lower overall reliability rate may also be fine.
Lots of people had to buy those GM cars for CR to report on them. CR is read by a wide cross section of folks. It's not elite by any means. Before the internet it was one of the few ways to find out about consumer products.

fintail · February 2017

Were they the ones that gave NUMMI Prizms and NUMMI Corollas different scores, even though they were virtually identical save for badging?

I also laugh when rudimentary ICE issues impact scores. User error in 95% of cases no doubt.

uplanderguy said:
Is it really random?

Sometimes, I've chuckled over the years when things like audio systems show differing reliability between the six and eight-cylinder versions.

But you are right, they take no advertising money, a good thing.

fintail · February 2017

Right now in Murka it is C300, C350e (plug in hybrid, never seen one), C43, C63.

andres3 said:

Do they still offer a C350 and C400? I remember test driving the C350 and it seemed like a solid choice. The regular CLA didn't interest me, but the CLA AMG did, of course, none to test drive.

ab348 · February 2017

fintail said:
Were they the ones that gave NUMMI Prizms and NUMMI Corollas different scores, even though they were virtually identical save for badging?

Shhh. Not allowed to discuss such things. Surely no upstanding CR subscriber would submit misleading results?!?

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