Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy · November 2018

@Michaell - I’ll take a look later. Trying to get my 12 year old up and myself out the door before 6:15 AM so I can avoid traffic.

anonymousposts1 · November 2018

pensfan83 said:

January's Detroit Auto Show should be a somber event. With this announcement and others like Audi, BMW, and Mercedes pulling out that's probably not organizers want as they transition the show to its new June date.

The kids will be bummed this year. We’ve taken them to the Detroit show the last 3 years and they look forward to it. Almost no reason to go at this point.

pensfan83 · November 2018

28firefighter said:
100% agree with you - I’m probably projecting a bit, but this one is really bothering me.

It's troubling for me as well.

graphicguy · November 2018

pensfan83 said:

28firefighter said:
100% agree with you - I’m probably projecting a bit, but this one is really bothering me.
It's troubling for me as well.

Me 3. I know Bradd will steer her in the right direction. But, the Lexus dealer is sounding more like a Kia dealer in the handling of this.

stickguy · November 2018

yeah, if that was even 1/2 accurate the police should show up.

Michaell · November 2018

I can't thank you all enough for the assistance you've provided. Makes me proud to call you friends.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Picked up my new baby last night:

kyfdx · November 2018

Really nice!!

28firefighter · November 2018

Congrats, @Mr_Shiftright !

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Clean interior:

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Yes, you COULD eat off the engine:

ab348 · November 2018

Congrats! Man, that thing looks babied. Now you have to keep it to that standard!

You'd never know those were Ford wheels. They look like they were made for that car.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Best part? Look at all the parts he gave me: 7 wheels and tires, all with life left and all pricey; spare axles (new and used), extra shocks, extra springs, extra stock muffler, a pair of control arms, two brake calipers, new MAF, new turbo boost sensor, interior parts, bulbs, wiring, coolant, extra mats, extra air/oil separator, used headlight assembly, Mazdaspeed 3 sway bar and links (this model of Mazda is the same platform as the C30, so many parts do fit).

I believe the wheels on the car are Ford Focus ST. Many of those parts fit, too.

28firefighter · November 2018

that is an absolute treasure trove of stuff.

pensfan83 · November 2018

Wow that thing is spotless. Congrats and enjoy!

fintail · November 2018

I think you got a winner there Shifty, congrats.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Thanks all. I hope it works out. And yeah, the car is a gem. The former owner is (oh, I just love saying that), as I may have mentioned, a Ducati technician, so he knows what he's doing. I like the little mods he did, especially putting Volvo V50 brakes on the car, and lowering it just a little bit. Part of the stash he gave me are 4-17" Sumitomos on stock Volvo wheels, so once I wear out all the 18" tires, I may switch to the 17"s again.

If you look just over the steering wheel, you can see the neat little boost gauge he installed in the dash--done perfectly I might add--looks factory.

I would expect, that even if they were all used parts (some are new), this stash would be worth a couple thousand dollars.

So I had no hesitation paying him full asking price and snatching the car right up.

nyccarguy · November 2018

Congrats on the punch Shifty! Looks great! Lots of luck with it! That car is really IMMACULATE!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

It probably won't remain quite as clean under my care, but it will run as well. This will become a daily driver.

roadburner · November 2018

nyccarguy said:
Congrats on the punch Shifty! Looks great! Lots of luck with it! That car is really IMMACULATE!

Ditto!

benjaminh · November 2018

Congrats! Looks great.++

tjc78 · November 2018

Nice find! Enjoy it.

jpp75 · November 2018

Congrats Shifty! That car looks GREAT! Many happy miles are ahead of you.

qbrozen · November 2018

Wow, this White Plains Volvo is quite the outfit. I have now been in contact with 4 different reps. One called me today and left a message. I called back. This dude was a real jerk. Really didn't want to hear what I had to say. Obviously yet another salesperson who doesn't want to deal with someone who knows what they are doing. Long story short, the gist of the convo was "We don't advertise with cargurus, so the price you saw is wrong." Which was not really even the point, right? I mean, I made an offer, they don't like my offer, so why the hell did you call me and harass me? But, just for kicks, I decided to email my FIRST contact to relay my conversation with this last person and ask why someone new was reaching out to me anyway. So now someone DIFFERENT replied to me to tell me my salesperson's name is not the same as the person who called me. HUH?!

Anyway, moving on.

graphicguy · November 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
Picked up my new baby last night:

The very definition of "cream puff". Very nice indeed. Congrats, again!

graphicguy · November 2018

qbrozen said:
Wow, this White Plains Volvo is quite the outfit. I have now been in contact with 4 different reps. One called me today and left a message. I called back. This dude was a real jerk. Really didn't want to hear what I had to say. Obviously yet another salesperson who doesn't want to deal with someone who knows what they are doing. Long story short, the gist of the convo was "We don't advertise with cargurus, so the price you saw is wrong." Which was not really even the point, right? I mean, I made an offer, they don't like my offer, so why the hell did you call me and harass me? But, just for kicks, I decided to email my FIRST contact to relay my conversation with this last person and ask why someone new was reaching out to me anyway. So now someone DIFFERENT replied to me to tell me my salesperson's name is not the same as the person who called me. HUH?!

Anyway, moving on.

Yikes....I'd get as far away as I could from that dealership!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

I feel like I'm wearing a clean white shirt and about to eat a plate of spaghetti.

breld · November 2018

Based on my recent experience, it does seem to be getting more and more difficult to find a dealership that consistently offers a transparent, pleasant experience. I've returned to dealerships where I had positive experiences in the past, only to find that not only salespeople have left (not unusual), but management has turned over, and there seems to be a cultural shift (for the worse).

stickguy · November 2018

Q, would this one work? I saw it, and it was nice. Got the vision package so big bonus there.

I assume this can lease still as a loaner?

Best part, the dealership is wonderful. Family operation (I have known the owner for many years through being there) Most likely not the cheapest, but easy and friendly to work with. I have never had a bad experience there.

https://www.cherryhillvolvocars.com/commercial-used/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-cherry-hill-nj-629f07d20a0e0ae70c244e03f0f2997e.htm

corvette · November 2018

qbrozen said:

Wow, this White Plains Volvo is quite the outfit. I have now been in contact with 4 different reps. One called me today and left a message. I called back. This dude was a real jerk. Really didn't want to hear what I had to say. Obviously yet another salesperson who doesn't want to deal with someone who knows what they are doing. Long story short, the gist of the convo was "We don't advertise with cargurus, so the price you saw is wrong." Which was not really even the point, right? I mean, I made an offer, they don't like my offer, so why the hell did you call me and harass me? But, just for kicks, I decided to email my FIRST contact to relay my conversation with this last person and ask why someone new was reaching out to me anyway. So now someone DIFFERENT replied to me to tell me my salesperson's name is not the same as the person who called me. HUH?! Anyway, moving on.

Wow. The second most expensive purchase most people make, and they manage to repeatedly drop the ball like that. I guess it’s enough of a seller’s market that most people will just put up with such incompetence?

At least my real estate agent sends me cookies.

henryn · November 2018

breld said:
Based on my recent experience, it does seem to be getting more and more difficult to find a dealership that consistently offers a transparent, pleasant experience. I've returned to dealerships where I had positive experiences in the past, only to find that not only salespeople have left (not unusual), but management has turned over, and there seems to be a cultural shift (for the worse).

I think those 2 items are often tied together. When the management tries to make car buying a pleasant, reasonable business, you get salespeople who like their job and stick around. Change in management, high pressure maximum profit sales tactics, and the nice laid back salespeople move on and go to work somewhere else. And who can blame them?

ON EDIT: That seems to be something that CarMax does rather well. Nice, laid back salespeople. No gimmicks, no tricks, no high pressure. The prices are definitely on the high side, but you know what to expect, and a lot of people like that.

kyfdx · November 2018

Pretty sure that I'd blow off some low-baller from NJ, as well. There has to be an easier buck out there.

stickguy · November 2018

but of course, those are the easiest deals. Skinny maybe, but it moves another unit, and takes no effort. get the price approved, send an email, pass some info back and forth, and he shows up the next day to sign papers and take car home. Heck, you could work 5 of those deals before lunch.

28firefighter · November 2018

Yeah, skinny deal and virtually nothing for the sales person. If a new car, at least they get a new unit under their belt and something towards a bonus. If a loaner, there is probably no upside to spending the time and taking a big loss.

corvette · November 2018

A lot of dealers don’t want easy. They want to wait for someone who will pay “their price.”

stickguy · November 2018

28firefighter said:
Yeah, skinny deal and virtually nothing for the sales person. If a new car, at least they get a new unit under their belt and something towards a bonus. If a loaner, there is probably no upside to spending the time and taking a big loss.

this is the whole idea behind having an internet department. To process the skinny deals and get punches for the dealership. The sales people can concentrate on fleecing the ups.

a mini deal is still better than no deal. And no reason to be nasty. It was going to take what, 5-10 minutes for them to deal with the request (bump to an SM) and get an answer back? Either take the deal, or politely respond back that "we appreciate the offer and considering our dealership, but our bottom line is $XX, so if you want it at that we can start the paperwork, otherwise we wish you luck in your search".

28firefighter · November 2018

My own personal experience after having landed 3 unicorn deals in 30 months or so is that your most likely scenario for success is where a dealer has already advertised a very deeply discounted price before incentives OR you can show them that a truly competing dealer is selling the car for. It eliminates one of their biggest objections - then it becomes showing them the math.

When you need to trailblaze with them and do each part of the deal, the sales person checks out because it isn't worth their time. In that case you need to talk to an SM or GM, and even then, they may not want to waste the time if they think they can do better with someone less knowledgeable.

If I'm getting really specific, my experience tells me that within 5 emails you either have a deal or you don't.

28firefighter · November 2018

stickguy said:

28firefighter said:
Yeah, skinny deal and virtually nothing for the sales person. If a new car, at least they get a new unit under their belt and something towards a bonus. If a loaner, there is probably no upside to spending the time and taking a big loss.
this is the whole idea behind having an internet department. To process the skinny deals and get punches for the dealership. The sales people can concentrate on fleecing the ups.

a mini deal is still better than no deal. And no reason to be nasty. It was going to take what, 5-10 minutes for them to deal with the request (bump to an SM) and get an answer back? Either take the deal, or politely respond back that "we appreciate the offer and considering our dealership, but our bottom line is $XX, so if you want it at that we can start the paperwork, otherwise we wish you luck in your search".

I wholeheartedly agree - and I try to be super respectful of time by trying to get to the point. And flat out, some internet departments only exist to get bodies in the door, not negotiate.

28firefighter · November 2018

My urge to collect Saabs is growing - check out this manual wagon unicorn.
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/2007-saab-9-5-aero-sportcombi/6755804173.html

henryn · November 2018

Going back 10, 15 years, and more, the newpaper ads were the best way to get a great deal on a new car. They actually ran full page, color ads in the Friday newspaper, and some of those deals were really good. But often they only had one, and you had to get there early on Friday (like when they opened).

Sort of, a little like, Black Friday deals, now that I think about it.

stickguy · November 2018

that SAAB is cool. Ad a touch skimpy with pictures though.

ab348 · November 2018

That reminds me of a fond memory from the '60s and '70s. Either the Big Three or the local newspaper must have orchestrated it, but every fall there was one day when big (usually 2-page) ads filled the newspaper with all of the new models from just about every brand. There would literally be dozens of pages with all these flashy ads highlighting the newest and greatest things coming out of Detroit. At the very bottom of the pages there would be an insert naming the local dealers. I loved poring over those ads and now wish I had kept one or two of those editions.

pensfan83 · November 2018

As others have said it sounds like they just don't want to deal with you because of the knowledge you bring to the table. Far easier and profitable for them to just wait for someone to wander onto the lot with an open checkbook.

I agree with stick though, either they accept the deal, decline altogether, or counter. No reason for obscure lectures or an attitude.

28firefighter · November 2018

If I can find it, I'll post a message I got back from an Alfa dealer when I was looking - a real doozy.

qbrozen · November 2018

One of the web people wrote back again, "oh, I'm sorry for the confusion, the person who called you is your salesperson. Is there anything you'd like me to pass along to him?"

"since you asked, you can inform him those 'incorrect prices' are also shown in truecar."

corvette · November 2018

qbrozen said:

One of the web people wrote back again, "oh, I'm sorry for the confusion, the person who called you is your salesperson. Is there anything you'd like me to pass along to him?"

"since you asked, you can inform him those 'incorrect prices' are also shown in truecar."

Can’t wait for him to respond that they don’t advertise with truecar, either.

carnaught · November 2018

Shifty, the Volvo looks really clean. Hope you really enjoy!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Thanks carnaught. Since the C30 is a pretty direct Mini competitor, I thought I'd jot down a few first impressions in comparing them.

Build Quality -- Hands down, Volvo.

Handling -- well, it depends. The C30 has more body roll, but is more stable on irregular surfaces. The Mini liked to Pogo-Stick on anything bumpy. The Volvo turns in well but is a bit vague in the neutral steering position. Torque steer is less than a Mini, and steering effort is easier.

Power -- about equal, but the Volvo has way more torque down low. So you have easier clutch engagement from a stand still and consequently I would expect somewhat better 0-60 times. There's no supercharger whine, of course, on a C30, which is fun on a Mini, and the exhaust note on a 5 cylinder car is...well...different and unique. The aftermarket muffler helps it along.

Shifting -- Volvo, hands down. Smoother gearshift (throw is a bit long however) and much easier effort on the clutch pedal

Ergonomics -- Volvo, hands down. 1st gen Minis remain utterly baffling. Mini ergonomics are "fussy". The Volvo's are practical.

Comfort -- Volvo has nicer seats and a more comfortable array of driving positions you can choose from. The ride is a bit "jittery", as is the Mini, but the "jitter" isn't "hammer on anvil"---it's more tolerable. I suspect 17" tires would help here. Much more rear seat room for passengers in the Volvo--actually habitable.

Curb Appeal -- both cars attract comments

Access to Repairs -- point goes to Volvo here, as much as I can tell so far from looking around. Someone on YouTube changed out a front axle assembly on a C30 in 20 minutes. Of course, I suspect a few tasks on the C30 are no easier than the Mini, so we'll see, won't we?

Visibility --tie ball game I think. Both are good.

Sound System -- Volvo is better all around.

Cargo Space --Volvo has more, although the hatch window makes for a somewhat more narrow opening than in the Mini.

Brakes -- Close. I'd say still Mini, because it is a lighter car. The C30 is a bit of a porker--over 700 lbs heavier!

Insurance --this one is interesting. AAA will charge me less. Why I asked? "Because Volvos are considered safer".

Driving Experience -- the C30 is not a dedicated sports car but in normal street driving, I wouldn't say it's any less fun than a Mini. The mods the previous owner made have helped, I'm sure.

Tuning -- both cars have tuning potential, and the undersize supercharger pulley was a real bargain on HP for the Mini. You can get about 30 HP more out of the C30 with a Stage 1 tune from Hilton, and remain emissions compliant while keeping the engine safe. That's about $500 bucks, so about $17 per HP. Not too bad.

stickguy · November 2018

nice. One thing I know is a pain on the Volvo is changing the cabin air filter. It is behind the brake pedal, and the normal way to get to it is to take that off. I never changed mine!

do you really feel it needs more HP? Or is this just a case of why not if you can get it?

stickguy · November 2018

actually, the C30 I really like is the V50. Basically a 4 door version with a whole lot more usable cargo space! If I stumbled upon a manual T5 one in nice shape and not a crazy price, I would go for it.

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