Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

hammersley · February 2002

Mike: Thanks! More/different work, more money, different station... about 4 months duration, I'm told. The only real drawback is the 70+ freight trains per day that run just across the road. I don't even hear 'em anymore

Cheers!
Paul

cliffy1 · February 2002

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Steve Clifford and I've been a very active participant at the Town Hall for 2 and a half years. I work at a Toyota dealership and am very active in many Toyota forums. I attempt to assist and answer people's questions about Toyota products whenever I can.

The reason I am posting here is to tell y'all how refreshing it is to see such civility here at the TH. I've been lurking in the Subaru topics for the last week and can't get over how nice and helpful you all are to each other. It is refreshing.

I'll continue lurking but I may drop in and say hello from time to time. Keep up the good work.

armac13 · February 2002

We like to think of ourselves that way.

Ross

kens · February 2002

Welcome, Steve! Glad you dropped us a line here at the Subaru Crew. Yes, the folks here are definetly friendly and helpful. Maybe it comes from being so few and far in between.

The Subaru Crew isn't just for Subaru owners. Feel free to join in whenever you like.

Ken

lilbluewgn02 · February 2002

Many here are OCD and need professional help!

nygreg · February 2002

I know your "name" from the Sienna and engine slu__ board. I am an owner of a Sienna as well as my beloved OB. I gave up on that board due to the "overly vocal" crowd. Welcome to a great group of people. But, please do not mention us over on the "other boards". BTW, 40K miles on the Sienna and no Slu__ (mobil 1 and OCD).

Greg

rsholland · February 2002

You can be our "Toyota Counterpoint" when we start getting too ornery over here. It does happen every now and then.

Bob

hondafriek · February 2002

To a lot of people washing a car ranks up there as drudgery, they cannot understand how washing a car would be instrumental in helping me unwind but it does and always has.

Frank actually, whilst my wife is still working I do most of the cleaning, since I am at home.

Mike thanks, but no thanks, washing my own car gives me pleasure, washing someone else,s would amount to the forementioned drudgery.

Cheers Pat.

kens · February 2002

Pat,

I can relate to the unwinding part of washing one's vehicle. It's kind of like going running for me. While I'm doing it, my mind's relaxed and not thinking about day-to-day stuff. Once I'm done, I'm basking in the sense of accomplishment. My neighboor thinks I'm nuts for washing my own vehicle. He believes washing a vehicle should be an "outsourced" activity. LOL!

Ken

miksmi · February 2002

Steve, welcome to the Subaru Crew; thanks for joining us. We compare and contrast Subarus with other makes in the Future Models topic. We'd appreciate your perspective, so please check in there when you have a chance.

..Mike

miksmi · February 2002

I used think that washing a car is a chore. After mulling over your thoughts on washing, I changed my perspective. I now look forward to washing the car and as Ken said, it's relaxing. Anyway Pat, I want to thank you for allowing me to reflect and turn an inconvenience into an indulgence.

Cheers,

..Mike

lilbluewgn02 · February 2002

Susan's Legacy ha the wood grain trim kit installed. The upper right hand corner of the console creaks when she brakes, accelerates, and hits bumps. Does anyone have a fix for the noise, or know how to remove the trim to maybe add some stuff to the clips to tighten them up? It is driving her crazy.
I remember someone (Loosh?) had changed out their trim.
Thanks
Serge

lucien2 · February 2002

but I am thinking about it. Funny, the woodgrain in my GT began doing the same thing starting about a month ago. Maybe it's real wood after all!! :-))

I am itching to upgrade the struts on the GT, but I am also wondering how long I am going to keep it. I think I might start looking for another job, since my company seems to have trouble holding onto brands- we lost our S. African wine portfolio this week. If I find something decent and with more stability, I am going to have a hard time keeping my hands off a WRX wagon. I really under-estimated how much I would miss the utility of a wagon when I bought the GT second-hand. I just couldn't find a 5MT GT wagon anywhere. I know the WRX wagon has a narrower track (grrrr) and no flares (double grrrr), but I suppose I could live with it for the gain in utility. I would be surprised if the STi showed up here as a wagon. Any guesses?

First I have to find that job. ;')

I drove a Contour SVT yesterday. Made me appreciate the GT even more. It is faster than the GT, but not by much. Handling is comparable, but I have better tires than this particular SVT, so I think mine is a better handler. SVT had brakes till next Sunday though, wowee. Also had torque steer under hard corner exits.

kens · February 2002

Serge,

I'm not familiar with the Legacy's trim kit, but it's fairly easy to remove it on the Forester. All you need to do is work up from the armrest/console area. Just undo some screws, remove the cover and keep working up towards the center console.

You may want to first see if the trim is indeed installed correctly. A tab may have come loose somewhere. If that fails, try putting some lithium grease lubricant on the tabs to see if that quiets them.

Ken

lilbluewgn02 · February 2002

I don't think the 20mm narrower track would make much of a difference in handling..the wagon handles really nice and I've carried a bunch of stuff in it, both with the seats still up and the seats down...I know Stephen put the sedan rear bar on his wagon.
Ken, I'll have to shed some light on it...the noise comes from above the infamous Subaru cup holder.
Yet another Serge

hondafriek · February 2002

click on this link for how to remove the legacy dash.Thes are the instructions installing audio stuff but it tells you how to remove the woodgrain.

Cheers Pat.
http://bitman.com/soobdash

hondafriek · February 2002

Time for your therapy session, get out those buckets and sponge,s. LOL.

I did not realise I was an influence on anyone else with my approach to car washing.

An added benifit is when you hand wash you tend to pick up the chips and scratchs that usually get away from you.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · February 2002

Let's see, the Forester has a unibody, like the Jeep Grand Cherokee. It has a fully independent suspension, like a Hummer. My viscous coupling AWD systems, sans low range, is pretty much what SUV expert Land Rover decided to use for their Freelander. Where do you draw the line? Are those not SUVs?

People shop the Forester against the RAV4 and CR-V. So let's look at two things, Sport, and Utility. Among these three, Forester has the most torque and horsepower, and the best power/weight ratio. It has the most car-like handling. So it's the sportiest.

Utility? Payload is far higher than the competition, and by more than a little. The roof rack can carry 150 lbs, also the most in the trio. Towing is a split decision, because of the trailer brake restriction. C&D fit more cases of beer in the Forester than the other two (very important, he he), and Consumer Reports fit the biggest box in the Forester, too. So, it offers the most utility in its class, too.

Sportiest, most utility, and it looks like "vehicle" is a given. Case closed.

-juice

cliffy1 · February 2002

... my Tundra could use a good bath. When you're done with that and still need more, that '91 MR2 next to it is looking a bit dirty as well.

cliffy1 · February 2002

I've questioned this designation for quite some time now. I hate to say it, but it is kind of like pornography... you know it when you see it.

I began to write that a "real" SUV would need to have a frame, but that would disqualify the Pathfinder and the Grand Cherokee. You could slide the Jeep through if you made the qualifier that any unibody must have a solid front axle but that still leaves out the Pathfinder. Perhaps "real" SUVs must have a minimum number of truck characteristics. Something like it must have three (or 4 or 5) of the following to be called an SUV: towing capacity over 3500, body on frame construction, 4WD system, low gear range, solid axle rear, solid axle front, in excess of 7" ground clearance, height requirement (I haven't thought of how high it would need to be to qualify), a certain amount of cargo area relative to its size and mud and snow tires.

Please feel free to add to this list. As a Toyota guy, I don't think of the Subarus as SUVs, but then, I really don't think of the RAV4 as a real one either.

locke2c · February 2002

Cliffy,

In Subaru's lineup the Forester is an SUV because it's not an Outback (wagon). I'm in general agreement with you about the definition of an SUV but won't go along with the solid axles... That makes a new Expedition not an SUV!

Technically speaking I'd place the Forester in the same category as the RAV4... Cute-utes? It competes well against them.

-Colin

sibbald · February 2002

This is such a wonderful place.....:-)

Everyone helping everyone....

No one talks Religion, or Politics, or about their pains and aches. Just good advice about cars, not stock tips or other useless information.

South of the border helps north of the border and vice versa.....

but, somebody, just somebody has to say it.

HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY, Goooooo CANADA!!!!!!!!

(help Ross, incoming) :-(

Tom

cliffy1 · February 2002

The solid axle thing is what I came up with as part of the criteria. Like I said, I think we could come up with a list of items that SUVs should have and if a vehicle has... say 4 of those criteria, it is an SUV. That means it can still be an SUV, even without solid axles.

cliffy1 · February 2002

U_S_A

U_S_A

You've run into a US hockey fan.

armac13 · February 2002

You forgot: handle like a pig, gulp gas, require 2 parking places, and roll over easily. As you may guess, I'm not an SUV fan. My Forester would qualify according to Steve's definition only in ground clearance (barely) and cargo area (quite efficient) since it doesn't have 4WD. I'm glad.
:-)

Ross

cliffy1 · February 2002

I'll add those to the list.

armac13 · February 2002

Is there a hockey game? Who's playing? :-)

Ross

sibbald · February 2002

Last time I will ask you for help. When the going gets tough....Ross does a side step. ;-)

Tom

paisan · February 2002

Hmm I drive my Trooper (lifted mind you) and never rolled it yet. Some people on this very board can attest to the fact that poor handling and rolling over are NOT required characteristics of an SUV.

-mike

mortpeaberry · February 2002

mike- I recall CR blowing the whistle on handling characteristics of the "new" trooper a few years back. did isuzu deal with that? Is yours after that period in life (I believe that it was right after the first body restyling - '98?)
steve-v

hondafriek · February 2002

This so far counts as a non winter,but last winter in Ottawa I lost count of the SUVs I saw on their roofs in ditchs all of them rollovers.

I will also agree to everything that Ross says I am not a fan of gas guzzling SUVs either, they are part of the reason the Arabs can hold us to ransom for oil.

Cheers Pat.

tincup47 · February 2002

Does your definition of an SUV also exclude the 2003 Range Rover? It has Unibody, independent suspension front and rear.

paisan · February 2002

CR was sued by Isuzu, and LOST in 11/12 counts. No damages were awarded to Isuzu. There have been no rollovers due to the situations that CR tested in REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. In 98 they lowered the body by 1/4" and changed the rims to widen the track by 1" Nothing major really changed as far as the handling. Amazingly the Explorer which does rollover in REAL LIFE SITUATIONS cleared the CR test....

As for being held for ransom by arab oil, that is 100% BS. The reason we buy Arab oil is because it is cheaper than using our own oil. Same reason that we buy our clothes from indonesia... CHEAP LABOR.

-mike

paisan · February 2002

Tincup isn't the 2003 rover going to cost like 90K+? Maybe we should add in a criteria that an SUV must cost a reasonable amount, afterall scratching up a 90K truck isn't my idea of fun!

-mike

grahampeters · February 2002

G'day

I am coming into this very late having been travelling for business. I liked the photoshop work on the WRX but the reality, when they exist in any number is somewhat snappier still.

Looking at the models in my office car park, which is shared with lots of IT types, most are tricked up with wings, body kits and snappy wheels. A fair number have wild paint jobs, one with a dual colour pearl finish which swings from gold to purple as you walk by it. Personally, it turns me off, but one of my colleagues did a panel beating apprenticeship and swears the finish is technically perfect.

I guess that a couple of years in the USA should allow some of the early WRX to trickle down to buyers prepared to trick them up. Oddly however, the fastest of them all is a plain white WRX which looks innocent but goes like ...

Cheers

Graham

lucien2 · February 2002

"the fastest of them all is a plain white WRX which looks innocent but goes like ..."

-my favorite way to serve it up.

SUV debate-

I think this is a forest(er)-for-the-trees argument. Automobiles have only ben a part of cultural and technical human development for a relatively short time span. The current craze owes as much to near-term corporate $$ grabbing and the influence of marketing on 1 or 2 generations of buyer as anything else. The evolution of automobilia in general is already moving on, as the proliferation of "sport-wagon-crossover activity" thingies on offer at the latest round of car shows will attest. Paisan's Trooper aside, the laws of physics are catching up with Americans...you can't have a tall center of gravity combined with huge mass and softly sprung susponsions and expect the thing to outhandle a car. The continues to be a market for SUVs in the traditional sense, but there is a new segment emerging (and pioneered by Subaru) that is going to make the line blurrier. what REALLY needs to happen is to close the CAFE , EPA, and safety loophole that makes pushing the idea of a truck-based people hauler so attractive to manufacturers.

fibber2 · February 2002

Thanks for joining in. We Steves are almost on par with the Daves & Mikes now. Keep up the good work!!!

My folks were looking for an alternative for their 5 yr old Taurus, and my dad was even thinking of going back to a full sized Crown Vic. A situation that required desperate and immediate action! I convinced them to try out an Avalon. They took one out and loved it. I picked thru the packages, got my dad pricing, and they ordered one last weekend for late March delivery. The hard part for me was then to have to explain the sludge issue. I think highly of Toyota, so selling him on the virtues of the car without telling him up front what I knew about the potential for engine problems was very difficult. Without compromising your position, would you recommend synthetic over dino in this case? Any help is appreciated.

And yes, you have stumbled on a great crew!!!

Steve

rsholland · February 2002

If anyone hates the new Speed Channel "Mostly NASCAR" format, here's your chance to voice opposition:

Bob

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/cel21/petition.html

mrk610 · February 2002

SUV stands for sport utility vehicle .IF its drives other then a truck its sporty . If you can use it to haul things its utility. If it have 4 wheels and uses gas and carries living things its a vehicle .
NASCAR RULES. I think its great that the networks finally think of NASCAR as a sport like the other big 3 sports . THere is no other sport that has the same amount of spectators then auto racing has .
mike k
GO RICKY RUDD

rsholland · February 2002

The problem with the "new" Speed Channel format, is that NASCAR is devouring all other types of auto racing, in terms of air time. It's way out of balance, IMO.

As to its popularity: not here at Edmunds, according to this thread.

the_big_h "What happened to Speed Channel!? (formerly Speedvision)" Feb 15, 2002 9:18am

Also, that petition is probably only a few days old (at most), and already it has over 5100 signatures who hate the new SPEED Channel format. So not everybody thinks so highly of NASCAR.

Bob

declansdad · February 2002

Bob: Thanks for posting the petition page...I love racing, including NASCAR, but too much is too much. I've become a big fan of the FIA-WRC and the BTCC due in part to speedvision. I also enjoy the Dakar race. If speedchannel gets rid of this type of racing, I'll just have to move to Europe!

Michael

declansdad · February 2002

Bob, I totally agree. If Fox wanted a totally NASCAR channel, they should have converted their "FX" channel to NASCAR and leave the Speedvision channel alone. They did this last year, showing a few NASCAR races on the FX channel...boy was a friend of mine mad (he lives in Balt. Co. and Comcast didn't have FX until after the first race or two).

BTW, how many Fox channels do we really need?

Michael

kens · February 2002

Instead of cheering for team Cananda and USA in Olympic ice hockey, why don't we just cheer for team NHL and all be friends? ;-)

Ken

[Deleted User] · February 2002

Steve:

The Toyota sludge issue is a very big, very real deal. The best advice I can give is to be proactive about it. Here's what I recommend:

1. Purchase an extended power train warranty from Toyota if your father will keep the car longer than 5 years or 60,000 miles. Be sure the warranty matches how long he plans on keeping it.

2. Follow Toyota's service recommendations for severe driving conditions, no matter how he drives the car. Don't let the service go 1 mile or 1 day beyond what's recommended by Toyota for severe driving conditions.

3. Have the car serviced at the Toyota service facilities.

4. Make copies of ALL receipts and keep the originals in a safe place.

Toyota has handled this sludge issue poorly and unethically, and are denying warranty service to people who have had regular oil changes performed anywhere else other than at Toyota dealerships.

Until this problem is resolved by a class-action lawsuit, your father is going to have to be meticulous about maintenance and record keeping. As long as he performs the recommended maintenance at Toyota facilities and keeps the records, Toyota will have no choice but to perform warranty repair (although a court may have to decide that).

Good luck.

Ty

armac13 · February 2002

We can't be friends until you learn how to spell Canada properly.
;-)

Ross

barresa62 · February 2002

I have an ex-co-workers dinner function to go to.

I hope you all enjoy the chat! :-)

Stephen

kens · February 2002

Ross,

LOL! That's what I get for typing before my coffee kicks in! Sorry, I've been Olympic sleep deprived this last week.

Ken

bigfrank3 · February 2002

I have to admit, when I read the Toyota sludge stories, and the suspected cause, the first thing I thought of was, "too bad they weren't using Mobil 1".

Regards,
Frank

hondafriek · February 2002

Not convinced,the price of oil is dependant on supply and demand, when demand is high the Arabs cut supply to boost the price.

Why do you think the price of gas went through the roof last year?

Because oil reserves in the states were at an all time low, if everybody was running around in tanks that get 12 miles to the gallon the price of oil would be in the stratosphere because of demand.

Consversally if most people drove a vehicle that got decent gas milage there would be a glut of oil and prices would go down

The Gulf war was not fought only to get Saddam out of Kuwait it was to protect the all too important supply of oil.

Cheers Pat.

hammersley · February 2002

Graham: We call those invisibly-fast cars "sleepers" - completely stock in appearance, but can blow the pants off any competition.

Hockey fans unite! Let's see... who do I root for? Mom & Dad were Canadian natives who became naturalized US citizens. I was born here, but Dad claims I was conceived in Penticton, BC... but Mom's not around anymore to verify the claim. Good thing there isn't a Filipino hockey team... my wife & I would be throwing pillows at each other!

So... go North America! (taking sidestep lessons from Ross)
Cheers!
Paul

Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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