Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

Kia is launching it here in the US with a heavily subsidized lease deal. Pretty good plan to try to get them out on the road and drive interest.

carnaught

Another factor in the Stinger vs. Accord comparison. The Accord offers much better resale than a Kia (although the Stinger is uncharted waters).

stickguy

A killer lease, that would get me to look at one.

stickguy

Actually heard on tv this week an ad for local Alfa dealer. Touting a Giulia lease for $279/mo. No clue about terms of course!

roadburner

breld said:

qbrozen said:

Re: Stinger. Let's not forget that the 255hp model starts at around $32k. So that competes with the Accord Sport, yet with RWD. I would consider that a compelling value argument.

Good point. The GT models may trail a bit compared to the German competition, but you're right - put the lower model up against an Accord, and it should be more than competitive.

I'd say I'd go with the Kia over the Accord - not only for the RWD performance, but the sleek hatchback style (while I think the styling is not as elegant as the 4-series or A5, I'd say I like it better than the Honda).

Yes, I'd definitely go with the Stinger. RWD is pretty much a requirement for me.

Michaell

stickguy said:

A killer lease, that would get me to look at one.

Kia has changed up their numbers - huge amounts of lease cash, but MF around .00150 to .00180 to compensate.

We don't have the Stinger lease programs, yet, but I'll be curious where they peg the residual value.

FWIW, the lease numbers on the 2018 Accord 2.0T Sport are .00200 and 58% for 36 months, 15,000 miles per year. And, no incentives. 54% for 2.0T Touring. I wouldn't call those stellar.

stickguy

I just don’t see much cross shopping accord and stinger. q50, some of the Germans, the upcoming VW fancy sedan, maxima, Volvo. TLX too. ATS?

Michaell

stickguy said:

I just don’t see much cross shopping accord and stinger. q50, some of the Germans, the upcoming VW fancy sedan, maxima, Volvo. TLX too. ATS?

All things considered, I'm gonna have to agree with you. Folks who shop Accords rarely shop anything else. I suspect the same is true with the Camry.

I looked at both the Accord and Camry 15 years ago before I bought my L300 - though, the price advantage and 0% financing on the Saturn helped with my decision making.

qbrozen

I disagree. Other than brand loyalists, I think folks price shop, and $30k family sedans all get lumped together. Do you really think Elantras aren't compared to Civics and Corollas?

stickguy

That’s not a family sedan though. Accord shoppers would look at an optima. They aren’t looking at a base Q50 either.

qbrozen

what isn't a family sedan? The Elantra? I said that is vs Civic and Corolla. Just drawing the parallel regarding cross-shopping Honda vs Toyota vs Hyun/Kia

As long as they get to the dealer, even if looking at Optima, they may see the Stinger and be more interested in that just by looks alone.

suydam

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I just don’t see much cross shopping accord and stinger. q50, some of the Germans, the upcoming VW fancy sedan, maxima, Volvo. TLX too. ATS?

All things considered, I'm gonna have to agree with you. Folks who shop Accords rarely shop anything else. I suspect the same is true with the Camry.

I looked at both the Accord and Camry 15 years ago before I bought my L300 - though, the price advantage and 0% financing on the Saturn helped with my decision making.

Agree. When we were in the midsize sedan market, we usually test drove Accord, Camry, Altima (and once the Passat). I wouldn’t have cared what else was in the showroom that didn’t fit those parameters. Definitely wanted a FWD vehicle.

stickguy

i still think it’s more of a sports sedan, not a family sedan. Maybe someone gets distracted by it. But how many Malibu shoppers walked out with an SS, or fusion buyers in an SRO? All 4 door sedans.

dino001

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

A killer lease, that would get me to look at one.

Kia has changed up their numbers - huge amounts of lease cash, but MF around .00150 to .00180 to compensate.

We don't have the Stinger lease programs, yet, but I'll be curious where they peg the residual value.

FWIW, the lease numbers on the 2018 Accord 2.0T Sport are .00200 and 58% for 36 months, 15,000 miles per year. And, no incentives. 54% for 2.0T Touring. I wouldn't call those stellar.

As much skeptic I am about leases, this one would make sense for me, if the residual is inflated enough. Trading that Stinger in three or four years could sting a lot (pun intended ). A lease with residual set in advance may be a great way to go, considering that no manufacturer would set an overly conservative residual on their brand new model, cause that would be an admission of defeat.

dino001

stickguy said:

i still think it’s more of a sports sedan, not a family sedan. Maybe someone gets distracted by it. But how many Malibu shoppers walked out with an SS, or fusion buyers in an SRO? All 4 door sedans.

I agree. One look at gas mileage (22/29/25 for 2.0 turbo and 19/25/21 for V6) and a "stereotypical" low cost Accord (30/38/33 and 1.5T with CVT or 22/32/26) buyer walks away. Although if they are in 2.0T "Sport" (2.0T with 10-speed AT) market, they may not.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

i still think it’s more of a sports sedan, not a family sedan. Maybe someone gets distracted by it. But how many Malibu shoppers walked out with an SS, or fusion buyers in an SRO? All 4 door sedans.

Those are different comparisons considering the price difference, though. I'm not sure how the options stack up, but an Optima SX is damned near the same price as a Stinger. Stinger offers more utility, 2 more gears on its transmission and a bit extra power, with almost the same fuel economy. They really are competing with themselves in this instance. It is a very different situation than most other manufacturers.

qbrozen

delete

dino001

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

i still think it’s more of a sports sedan, not a family sedan. Maybe someone gets distracted by it. But how many Malibu shoppers walked out with an SS, or fusion buyers in an SRO? All 4 door sedans.

Those are different comparisons considering the price difference, though. I'm not sure how the options stack up, but an Optima SX is damned near the same price as a Stinger. Stinger offers more utility, 2 more gears on its transmission and a bit extra power, with almost the same fuel economy. They really are competing with themselves in this instance. It is a very different situation than most other manufacturers.

Perhaps, but it's not unique. A4/S4 has its A5/S5 Sportsback and 330/340 has its 430/440 Gran Coupe. Those are actually much more similar to their high-volume siblings than Stinger to Optima, but they attract a particular type of buyer (like yours truly). I would not even look at Kia before. If Stinger manages to stick around for next few years and gets updates, good offers, I may actually take a test drive at some point. The only thing that could deter me from doing so is their dealer network and salesman culture. So far, almost every time I set foot in a place selling those mid-to-low end market establishments, I felts like running away after just a hand shake. Oh well, what are hot showers for.

driver100

Q, I think you made your point the first time.

abacomike

Just got a text from my son - my grandson was offered a 70% scholarship to attend college and play baseball as a starting pitcher (as a freshman) and first base/hitting for the college that flew him to their campus.  The reason for the large scholarship was due to the fact that he will play 2 key positions and due to his scholastic achievements.

Very proud of him! 

qbrozen

driver100 said:

Q, I think you made your point the first time.

dang interwebs

qbrozen

So I was chatting with a guy last night from my town who currently owns a very well preserved Pantera, which his father bought new and passed on to him, a Sunbeam Tiger that he just finished restoring, and a new project he just bought from a seller in California, an all-original '69 Bronco. I think we can be friends.

Funny thing is, I've been playing volleyball with him since last year and did not find all this out till last night. The conversation started when we arrived at the same time both driving 2017 F150s.

driver100

abacomike said:

Just got a text from my son - my grandson was offered a 70% scholarship to attend college and play baseball as a starting pitcher (as a freshman) and first base/hitting for the college that flew him to their campus.  The reason for the large scholarship was due to the fact that he will play 2 key positions and due to his scholastic achievements.

Very proud of him! 

When he goes pro we expect tickets.

ab348

What's the cost of the other 30% the school isn't paying, Mike?

driver100

I asked for color chips last Sunday.....from Kohler and American Standard.
We all know what happened with Kohler, call customer service, ask for chips, pay for them and they will send them.
Today Fedex delivered a small envelope from American Standard........with 3 nice tile chips, labelled with the color names.
If we do order, and there is a fair chance we may go through with it, guess which one we will order from?

isellhondas

abacomike said:

isellhondas said:

isellhondas said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Good morning from beautiful Manson, WA. It's frosty out there.

Manson? Never heard of it??

Never mind, I got curious and looked up. On Lake Chelan. Sounds like a nice place.

Lake Chelan is a beautiful area.  The lake resembles a river more than a lake - Lake of The Ozarks is similar in shape to Lake Chelan.  I took a boat up to the end of Lake Chelan where the snow-capped mountains are just gorgeous.

Yes, beautiful but HOT in the summer!

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

NYC, speaking of toilets, we have 5 bathrooms in our house and it seems I am constantly replacing the flushing mechanism, the flapper, or making adjustments here and there on these darn things. Has anyone come up with a foolproof flushing mechanism that doesn't have to be replaced every couple of years?

The water in Florida is really hard on flappers and chains. I believe the newer ones use pumping action (so to speak) rather than a lever - tower - chain-rubber flapper - mechanism, that is something from prehistoric days.

His n' Hers

roadburner

qbrozen said:

So I was chatting with a guy last night from my town who currently owns a very well preserved Pantera, which his father bought new and passed on to him, a Sunbeam Tiger that he just finished restoring, and a new project he just bought from a seller in California, an all-original '69 Bronco. I think we can be friends.

Funny thing is, I've been playing volleyball with him since last year and did not find all this out till last night. The conversation started when we arrived at the same time both driving 2017 F150s.

I don't get the allure of those early Broncos- my dad bought a new one with a V8 in 1973. Within four years the rockers were rusted through and the radio was dead. The heater was so pathetic that below 20F frost would form on the inside of the windows. I'd much rather have a Jeep or Land Cruiser of the same vintage. My TJ is light years better to drive.

abacomike

ab348 said:

What's the cost of the other 30% the school isn't paying, Mike?

$7000 which includes his room and board.  I am going to help pay for some of the cost of his college and room and board not covered by the scholarship.  He also gets $4000 a year in scholarship funds from his mother’s company where she has worked for 16 years.  So there is a net of $3000 a year + incidentals such as airfare back to Palm Springs 2-3 times a year.

It’s now all up to him.  From my understanding, he really liked the coaches, the guys on the team and the facilities.  The only thing that he says he doesn’t care about are the cold winters.  Remember, for his entire life, he has lived in the Palm Springs area (The Coachella Valley) of the Southern California Desert.

suydam

And they will be REALLY cold there!

qbrozen

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

So I was chatting with a guy last night from my town who currently owns a very well preserved Pantera, which his father bought new and passed on to him, a Sunbeam Tiger that he just finished restoring, and a new project he just bought from a seller in California, an all-original '69 Bronco. I think we can be friends.

Funny thing is, I've been playing volleyball with him since last year and did not find all this out till last night. The conversation started when we arrived at the same time both driving 2017 F150s.

I don't get the allure of those early Broncos- my dad bought a new one with a V8 in 1973. Within four years the rockers were rusted through and the radio was dead. The heater was so pathetic that below 20F frost would form on the inside of the windows. I'd much rather have a Jeep or Land cruiser of the same vintage. My TJ is light years better to drive.

I probably told this story around here before, but I'll risk repeating myself. When I was shopping for my first vehicle, a local used car lot had a white late 60s Bronco v8 on their front line. I think it was priced at $2500, IIRC. I dragged my Dad there to take a look. First thing he did was check to see if it was unlocked. When he pulled the door handle, the whole damned door tried to flee the body, hinges and all. We pushed it back onto the body and quietly slipped away before anybody came to greet us.

And I agree, now that Broncos have become so damned expensive, there are other vehicles I'd much rather have.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

NYC, speaking of toilets, we have 5 bathrooms in our house and it seems I am constantly replacing the flushing mechanism, the flapper, or making adjustments here and there on these darn things. Has anyone come up with a foolproof flushing mechanism that doesn't have to be replaced every couple of years?

The water in Florida is really hard on flappers and chains. I believe the newer ones use pumping action (so to speak) rather than a lever - tower - chain-rubber flapper - mechanism, that is something from prehistoric days.

His n' Hers

At least, no flappers or chains to replace.

iluvmysephia1

Wow, dudes, the 2016 Scion iA for sale at Rodman Toyota in Everett has now dropped to only $12,613. That car does have 28,526 miles on it and I do have them on my Rolodex (text list). They shined her up really, really well. Can't decide if I want Pulse or Chromium. The best deal on a new one in Pulse (red) is in Bozeman, MT, selling for only $14,496. Here's a pic of the one in Everett.



The car is gorgeous in red.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

NYC, speaking of toilets, we have 5 bathrooms in our house and it seems I am constantly replacing the flushing mechanism, the flapper, or making adjustments here and there on these darn things. Has anyone come up with a foolproof flushing mechanism that doesn't have to be replaced every couple of years?

The water in Florida is really hard on flappers and chains. I believe the newer ones use pumping action (so to speak) rather than a lever - tower - chain-rubber flapper - mechanism, that is something from prehistoric days.

His n' Hers

His n' Hers toilets, nice to see how the very well to do live !!

driver100

I like the red the most. $2000 savings for 2 years worth of driving and almost a used up warranty would be a red flag for me.

stickguy

The new one is a much better deal.

dino001

iluvmysephia1 said:

Wow, dudes, the 2016 Scion iA for sale at Rodman Toyota in Everett has now dropped to only $12,613. That car does have 28,526 miles on it and I do have them on my Rolodex (text list). They shined her up really, really well. Can't decide if I want Pulse or Chromium. The best deal on a new one in Pulse (red) is in Bozeman, MT, selling for only $14,496. Here's a pic of the one in Everett.



The car is gorgeous in red.

I've always been partial to red. I hate silver/grey/gold/champagne.

suydam

Really? Isn’t the depreciation on these fairly steep?

iluvmysephia1

I see Bozeman, MT, in my future. I agree, it makes more sense ta buy new. Once the Mrs. is on board, of course.
The $2,000 cash from Toyota and the 0% financing does expire on Monday, December 4th. But, after my probationary period is over December 25, 2017 (yes, X-Mas is the accurate date!) I could see what Toyota will offer in the way of both of those numbers in order to clear those 2017 Yaris iA's.

stickguy

It’s so cheap new depreciation in $ terms is minor. In this case, $1800 for 28,000 fewer miles, a model year, and that much warranty gone. And who knows what abuse to the clutch.

Heck, that’s like buying miles for 6-7 cents. Can’t do that on a lease!

iluvmysephia1

Yep. I can't get this idea outta my head. The Mrs.can be bought off - I mean the Mrs. will probably never warm up to the idea, but, I need something that gets better ghastly mileage out here. This place is rural, and, even if we move to Soap Lake, Ephrata or Moses Lake, and trips to Moses Lake from Soap Lake are only a half hour drive, the trips to Sonic's games in Seattle will kill us with the Soul's ghastly mileage.

venture

driver100 said:

Especially the grill

How about this grill?

isellhondas

driver100 said:

I like the red the most. $2000 savings for 2 years worth of driving and almost a used up warranty would be a red flag for me.

It's a TOYOTA! I wouldn't care about the lack of a warranty!

stickguy

Iluv, I thought you were getting about 35 MPG? The Toyota should do better, but how much will you really save? At least enough to cover the difference in payment? are we talking 5 MPG on average?

iluvmysephia1

It's a TOYOTA! I wouldn't care about the lack of a warranty!

That's what I mean, isell! The one at Rodland Toyota is only $12,614. Spikes - that's cheap! And, you're right, it's a Toyota. Now, in defense of stick's thought (and really mine, too) the Yaris iA has a lot of electronics on board. Although it doesn't have Android Auto, it's got just about every other gadget I would want in the way of music. It has lane stoppage - it'll stop you from 0-18mph if you're staring down at edmunds.com on your cell and aren't paying attention. Not that I'd ever do that!

But the Warranty would be good ta have. Gee, Bozeman is only 557 miles east of me.

The new Chromium one in Tacoma for only $14,496 is only 200 miles west of me. And it's just $138 more than the one in Bozeman, MT. But, and it's a butt the size of Oprah's again, it's Chromium. Chromium is no. 2 ta the Pulse. The car in Bozeman has been on their lot for 225 days now, and that is a negotiable item ta bite down on. Gotta be careful when the car's already so cheap, though, I don't wanna be majorly low-balled on my trade-in.

driver100

dino001 said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Wow, dudes, the 2016 Scion iA for sale at Rodman Toyota in Everett has now dropped to only $12,613. That car does have 28,526 miles on it and I do have them on my Rolodex (text list). They shined her up really, really well. Can't decide if I want Pulse or Chromium. The best deal on a new one in Pulse (red) is in Bozeman, MT, selling for only $14,496. Here's a pic of the one in Everett.



The car is gorgeous in red.

I've always been partial to red. I hate silver/grey/gold/champagne.

I like red too...something about driving a red car...it denotes fun!
The bad side is if you park over 4 parking spaces someone will notice and they will haze your car.

driver100

iluvmysephia1 said:

Yep. I can't get this idea outta my head. The Mrs.can be bought off - I mean the Mrs. will probably never warm up to the idea, but, I need something that gets better ghastly mileage out here. This place is rural, and, even if we move to Soap Lake, Ephrata or Moses Lake, and trips to Moses Lake from Soap Lake are only a half hour drive, the trips to Sonic's games in Seattle will kill us with the Soul's ghastly mileage.

And the new car isn't a big added expense.....especially with the old car loan still standing?

roadburner

stickguy said:

Iluv, I thought you were getting about 35 MPG? The Toyota should do better, but how much will you really save? At least enough to cover the difference in payment? are we talking 5 MPG on average?

I when gas prices spiked a few years ago I considered trading my MS3 on a Mini Cooper; I think the delta was 6-7 mpg. I calculated that I would have to drive the car for 5 years just to break even.

iluvmysephia1

And the new car isn't a big added expense.....especially with the old car loan still standing?

Exactly. I wish my wife would not get so mad and just listen to her loving husband.



driver100 - yep, and out here on A-97 highway there's rocks that just tumble down onto the roadway. Our upstairs neighbor has a great idea - he just drives over to the other side of the Columbia River - we go across the Beebe Bridge to the east side of the bridge, and we then go south on 97 highway to Wenatchee. Viola! That is what I'll do after I buy this car. Because I've seen Washington State Patrol officers out kicking those rocks off the road. Traffic engineers built the road right outta the mountainside - something that's done often in Washington state because we have so many mountains. They have to - and, what's more, many, many Chinese men lost their lives building these roads. Oh yeah.

driver100

venture said:

driver100 said:

Especially the grill

How about this grill?

Now that is what I call U-G-L-Y!
Reminds me of a train cow catcher
Almost as ugly as;