Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · February 2015

nyccarguy said:
You guys who were in the car business (@boomchek still is) know just how tough it is to make a living.
The amount of time it takes for inventory to turn over is staggering. Especially when it comes to used cars. At the end of December, my best friend traded in his 2011 LTZ 4WD Tahoe & his leased 2014 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited. His trades are literally 10s and the dealer in turn paid him top dollar for them. Still sitting there. My Dad traded in his 2011 LTZ Tahoe that is still on the lot. A friend of my best friend traded in his wife's 2012 or 2013 MB GLK 350 in December and it is still there.

Interesting...sounds depressing...like a hard way to make a buck. I will say, this crazy weather is probably having a big affect on car sales....not the kind of weather that makes you want to walk around a car lot looking at new or used models.

stickguy · February 2015

Driver, probably not. it was no where near that much. $12/mo I think. Odds are (based on history for what my cars are like at the 3 year mark) that I was not going to need it. But I bit, so not going to worry about it now.

I figured that, based on how my luck runs, the only way to guarantee no issues at turn in was to get the plan!

stever · February 2015

I went car shopping today and got to use and enjoy the ventilated seats in a Soul I was checking out. 73° today.

The salesguy was a green pea with four months under his belt. Pretty good with the car info, but too young to really have a handle on sales I think (not that I have any experience along those lines). I think I shocked him a bit by introducing myself first and after I told him which car I wanted to see, he said hang on while he got the keys. Then he asked my what kind of payment I was looking for. Uh, that's way old school kid.

His last job was selling newspaper subscriptions so I guess he's moving up in the world, but I felt a bit sorry for him. Hard way to make a living, especially knowing how many people flat out lie to dealers.

boomchek · February 2015

nyccarguy said:
You guys who were in the car business (@boomchek still is) know just how tough it is to make a living. I made a few observations while sitting at a salesman's desk that had been cleaned out doing some paperwork of my own while waiting for my Dad's 2015 Tahoe to get fixed. For those of you who are concerned, yes the navigation now works (after a new nav antenna and new on star module) as it should have when my Dad took delivery back in December.

The dealership is a small, family owned & operated, stand alone Chevrolet dealership. They squeeze four cars in the showroom. A 2015 C7 Corvette Stingray (with a sold tag on the windshield), a 2015 4WD LTZ Suburban (with an MSRP almost equal to the Corvette's), a 2015 Cruze LS, & a fully loaded 4WD Equinox LTZ (no way this is a $40K vehicle). I got there at 10:30 am and was there until about 3:00 pm on a Friday. There was one guy there trying to buy a used Malibu. He obviously had some sort of credit issue. The rest of the day, I saw 2 other people walk into the showroom to look around.

After I was done with my work, I struck up a conversation with one of the sales guys. I asked him what the hardest part of selling cars is. He told me a few things:

People try to be slick and think we aren't going to find out they have credit issues. Or they think we aren't going to notice they haven't paid their property taxes (we have a personal property tax on cars in CT).

Morally he said the hardest part are that people come in to buy a car from him with credit issues, and are upside down on their current loan. He knows he shouldn't try to sell them a car, but if he discourages them, they'll take off to the next lot and buy a car there.

The amount of time it takes for inventory to turn over is staggering. Especially when it comes to used cars. At the end of December, my best friend traded in his 2011 LTZ 4WD Tahoe & his leased 2014 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited. His trades are literally 10s and the dealer in turn paid him top dollar for them. Still sitting there. My Dad traded in his 2011 LTZ Tahoe that is still on the lot. A friend of my best friend traded in his wife's 2012 or 2013 MB GLK 350 in December and it is still there.

It is tough but it all depends what sort of vehicles you are selling.

I've been in the car business since 2003 and worked 9 of those years at new car lots in various positions (sales, internet sales, marketing, sales management).

New car stores are a bit easier to work at (marketing support, traffic, warranties, newer nicer cars) but the commissions are much smaller (about $150-$300 on most new small and mid size cars). Import stores always have more traffic than domestic stores. Fridays are typically slowest of the week, and January/February are slowest times of the year, so when you were there you probably saw an extreme of how slow it can get at a dealership. Having said that I did once work at a GM dealer, for 2 days in March, during which about 3 customers in total walked in through the doorover those 2 days, while a sales staff of 14 were waiting to make a sale, which prompted me to leave after day 2 as I saw no hope of ever making a living there even though the managers tried to pump us up on how we can make $100k a year there.

Overall I prefer selling used cars as it's easier to make a sale. With new cars, your customers first compare your brand to the competition's, and if they decide to go with your brand, they have 5-10 local dealers they can shop you on a price. I just hated when I provided excellent service, and a great price only to lose a sale over $50-$100 to another dealer, which was common. It gets tiring after a while and demotivational.

So after 9 years I started selling used cars. I worked at a large busy used car lot, where traffic was good, prices were cheaper than that of the competitor's and sales came comparatively easier. (I did double the sale numbers and made more on each car, so about 300%+ increase in income). It's hard to compare and cross shop used cars as no two are alike. Most people figure out what they want and start looking for the cheapest available one for sale. Since we were the cheapest we would get a lot of traffic. There was also no manufacturer mandated follow up to do with surveys that in some cases would dock your already low commission because you didn't get 10 out of 10 on a survey.

Yes, there is a lot more "heat" with used cars, but I find it when everything is explained up front (powertrain warranty only, accessories etc not covered on older cheaper cars), then customers are ok with it as they're saving a few thousand dollars.

As for inventory, used cars tend to linger around during December/January as people are receiving their Christmas credit card bills in the mail and are on a spending hangover, meaning most are not in a mood to blow money on big ticket items unless it's super necessary (car died, etc.).

Most stores try to have a turnaround time for used cars, from the time it lands, to detail, inspection, repairs, recon, etc.. In busier stores it can be as long as a month, but usually it's a week or two. Dealers hate advertising and showing dirty cars that are not front line ready, most will not put it up for sale until they're 100% ready. I worked at a dealer where it took 60 days to get a car ready because the service department was jammed, and a detail place which was owned by the same dealer group had to service 4 different dealerships, and the dealer principal wouldn't let us get detailing done elsewhere.

That's why cars you saw that came in on trade in December are still there. It's fairly normal.

Most dealers however try not to have cars that are over 90 days old as that's the "best before" date before discounts are applied to move them and interest charges start racking up on inventory (yes dealers that finance their inventory have to pay interest on it and curtailment charges as time goes on). Sometimes dealers have to pay off as much as 10% of a car's wholesale value every month after it sits on the lot too long. So imagine a lot with 50 used cars, each purchased at $10k = $500,000 in inventory. Now try paying 10% down on that amount if there's little or no income coming in.

Now I run a smaller used car lot for a friend who owns the lot. I'm the only one here, have my own schedule, deal with everything including pricing the cars. The dealership owner just buys vehicles and sends them down and I do the rest.

Much more relaxing and because of virtually no overhead we price our cars cheap and they tend to go quickly.

graphicguy · February 2015

stever said:
Thanks everyone. @Karen_CM‌ was having issues with Firefox and load times this morning but there's nothing we can put our fingers on.

I quit using Firefox, too.....for the same reasons.

stever · February 2015

Oh, as I was ready to leave and after exchanging info with the guy (who had no cards so he hand wrote me a note), he asked me to go inside for a minute. I said "to meet the tower guy so you'll get credit"? He said yeah; guess it's part of his pay package maybe for handling ups? Or maybe he wants to make sure he gets credit if I wind up buying.

abacomike · February 2015

imidazol97 said:

Looks like winter is finally going to arrive in So. Florida. Tonight, lows in the lower 40's and tomorrow highs in the mid 50's. Tomorrow night, lows in the upper 30's. Both nights will have wind chills 10 degrees colder. Not used to these kinds of lows - could break some records and destroy some vegetable crops inland where temps expected in the upper 20's.
AND you are expecting sympathy from whom? Not from anyone in Midwest and Northeast, I hope.

No - not looking for sympathy. Just stating the fact that you guys up north are having a horrible winter and we are beginning to feel the effects of that horrible winter as well.

imidazol97 · February 2015

imid said:

AND you are expecting sympathy from whom?

abaco said:

No - not looking for sympathy. Just stating the fact that you guys up north are having a horrible winter and we are beginning to feel the effects of that horrible winter as well.

I know you are experiencing cold times for Florida. When I visited my sister in Boca
several years back, all the folks had jackets on and it was low 70s. Makes me wish
I'd migrated to FL several years ago.

driver100 · February 2015

stickguy said:

I figured that, based on how my luck runs, the only way to guarantee no issues at turn in was to get the plan!

I know stick, I feel the same way...I am going to end up paying one way or the other. I wish there was an extended warranty I could have bought for the clutch in the Audi.

driver100 · February 2015

Much more relaxing and because of virtually no overhead we price our cars cheap and they tend to go quickly

Thanks boom, enjoyed reading about your experiences selling cars...and the difference between selling new cars and used cars.

I had a friend once who went to work at a Ford dealer. Management wanted him to sell new cars but he really preferred selling used cars. He said there is only one of each and the profit margins were a lot better. He thought he could make more selling used cars.

It sounds like you have a nice little set up going....low pressure, good potential.

nyccarguy · February 2015

@boomchek‌

Thanks for shedding some light! I'm glad you are happy where you are right now.

boomchek · February 2015

driver100 said:
Much more relaxing and because of virtually no overhead we price our cars cheap and they tend to go quickly

Thanks boom, enjoyed reading about your experiences selling cars...and the difference between selling new cars and used cars.

I had a friend once who went to work at a Ford dealer. Management wanted him to sell new cars but he really preferred selling used cars. He said there is only one of each and the profit margins were a lot better. He thought he could make more selling used cars.

It sounds like you have a nice little set up going....low pressure, good potential.

Thanks, I do enjoy it too. I come to work when I want to and leave when I want to, I'm basically on my own schedule as most customers call before coming. Our lot is not in a location with much walk in traffic anyways.

It's almost like running my own business without the investment or back end headaches.

roadburner · February 2015

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:
Looks like winter is finally going to arrive in So. Florida. Tonight, lows in the lower 40's and tomorrow highs in the mid 50's. Tomorrow night, lows in the upper 30's. Both nights will have wind chills 10 degrees colder. Not used to these kinds of lows - could break some records and destroy some vegetable crops inland where temps expected in the upper 20's.
AND you are expecting sympathy from whom? Not from anyone in Midwest and Northeast, I hope.
Currently 9 deg F, low in this same area, and the high tomorrow in the same number range.

Looking at single digits and below in the Louisville Area over the next 48 hours- with snow/sleet/freezing rain possible this weekend. Ice Station RB is ready; since this picture was taken the Jeep has been fitted with a new set of BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KOs. It is now virtually unstoppable...

tommister2 · February 2015

@roadburner nice looking TJ. You'll love the new tires. The picture makes it look like you have no driver's side wiper blade (or maybe just how it displays on my iPad).

oldfarmer50 · February 2015

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:
Looks like winter is finally going to arrive in So. Florida. Tonight, lows in the lower 40's and tomorrow highs in the mid 50's. Tomorrow night, lows in the upper 30's. Both nights will have wind chills 10 degrees colder. Not used to these kinds of lows - could break some records and destroy some vegetable crops inland where temps expected in the upper 20's.
AND you are expecting sympathy from whom? Not from anyone in Midwest and Northeast, I hope.
Currently 9 deg F, low in this same area, and the high tomorrow in the same number range.

Looking at single digits and below in the Louisville Area over the next 48 hours- with snow/sleet/freezing rain possible this weekend. Ice Station RB is ready; since this picture was taken the Jeep has been fitted with a new set of BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KOs. It is now virtually unstoppable...

You call that snow? Here's a picture of me standing on my wife's shoulders. Now that's snow!

imidazol97 · February 2015

Snow? I saw the videos of folks in northeast jumping out of upper stories of houses into snowdrifts from the recent snowstorms. Boston mayor asked them not to do that because they can get hurt!!!

Most of them in swimming trunks only or undies as they jumped. Cold.
I hope that the videos didn't include any of our Edmunds poster family!!! LOL.

abacomike · February 2015

imidazol97 said:

Snow? I saw the videos of folks in northeast jumping out of upper stories of houses into snowdrifts from the recent snowstorms. Boston mayor asked them not to do that because they can get hurt!!! Most of them in swimming trunks only or undies as they jumped. Cold. I hope that the videos didn't include any of our Edmunds poster family!!! LOL.

Yes - I saw that. No brains at all. Suppose there was a buried garbage can or a buried bicycle and you end up with a hospital visit and a urologist?

robr2 · February 2015

abacomike said:

Yes - I saw that. No brains at all. Suppose there was a buried garbage can or a buried bicycle and you end up with a hospital visit and a urologist?

Well if you know what's in your own yard, you should be OK.

When I was on my roof on Sunday shoveling off about 14" of fresh powder, I looked over the edge at the 6'+ deep snow piles in my yard and gave it a quick consideration. It would only have been 15' or so down.

ab348 · February 2015

imidazol97 said:
Snow? I saw the videos of folks in northeast jumping out of upper stories of houses into snowdrifts from the recent snowstorms. Boston mayor asked them not to do that because they can get hurt!!!

Most of them in swimming trunks only or undies as they jumped. Cold.

There's no cure for idiots.

stever · February 2015

I had an old ranch house during my Anchorage days and it had 2x4 rafters in the ceiling, complete with concrete stains from where they had used the wood during some construction at the Army or Air Force base. So I'd shovel the roof once or twice a winter. Jumping off the roof would have been fun but with the one story, the best I could do was step off the roof on either the front yard or the back (I had a "scoop it off into two piles" system).

Been hearing good reports about "snow pushers". Supposedly easier on your heart and back. Not that I'm in the market.

Got a reply from my request for numbers on the Soul I looked at yesterday - "We can give you the out the door price but we would need you here... "

ray80 · February 2015

imidazol97 said:
Snow? I saw the videos of folks in northeast jumping out of upper stories of houses into snowdrifts from the recent snowstorms. Boston mayor asked them not to do that because they can get hurt!!!

Most of them in swimming trunks only or undies as they jumped. Cold.
I hope that the videos didn't include any of our Edmunds poster family!!! LOL.

I was close to seeing an un-intended version of that yesterday.
Someone thought it would be a good day to go up on the show/ice covered metal roof to clean woodstove chimney. Saw the appointed person get about halfway up and proceed to go into slide all the way down to ladder (which saved them from the fall) , good thing it has been cold and ice underneath is locked on to roof or it would have been a much faster descent.

graphicguy · February 2015

boomcheck....I meant to mention earlier how I enjoyed your explanation of your move into used cars. It sounds like it's working out well for you personally and financially, too.

I have an acquaintance (not really a friend) who owns a used lot. For you locals, it's out by the allegedly controversial Indian sign. He's had it for years. Same situation as you. He goes to auction, buys the cars. He has two sales guys who sells them for him....really a family sort of atmosphere.

He's a hybrid though. He has one sales guy who operates as a BHPH function and the other sales person sells the cars and gets them financed elsewhere.

I see these little lots with maybe 10-12-15 cars on them. I never could figure out how they stayed in business. But, if you're turning over your entire inventory once a month, and making $1,000+ per sale, I suppose it's doable.

houdini1 · February 2015

Nissan Rust Issues

Yesterday, I saw a clip on TV of a 2006 Nissan Altima. I assume it was somewhere in the snow belt. From the outside the car looked pretty nice...but the guy could take his hand, and, from underneath, stick it thru the floor on the drivers side. The carpet was still there and the video showed him pushing the carpet up with his hand. Nissan told him it was his problem. First I have heard of rust problems with Nissan.

stever · February 2015

Pretty bad - the warranty booklet says "Any body sheet metal panel supplied by Nissan found to have developed perforation (rust-through) due to corrosion in normal use is covered for 60 months." That's pretty typical (same as a Corolla for example), but still....

The owner is probably like me; even in Michigan with all the salt, I rarely washed my cars, and it's a real pain trying to spray off the undercarriage.

robr2 · February 2015

houdini1 said:
Nissan Rust Issues

Yesterday, I saw a clip on TV of a 2006 Nissan Altima. I assume it was somewhere in the snow belt. From the outside the car looked pretty nice...but the guy could take his hand, and, from underneath, stick it thru the floor on the drivers side. The carpet was still there and the video showed him pushing the carpet up with his hand. Nissan told him it was his problem. First I have heard of rust problems with Nissan.

Does a focus group of 1 make it an "issue?"

ab348 · February 2015

I haven't heard of any complaints on Nissans rusting up here in Nova Scotia. Mazdas seem to the ones most susceptible to the tinworm.

Michaell · February 2015

Most of the automated car washes here in Colorado have an (extra cost) option of an undercarriage rinse before the wash commences. No salt used here; mostly gravel and magnesium chloride.

ray80 · February 2015

robr2 said:

houdini1 said:
Nissan Rust Issues

Yesterday, I saw a clip on TV of a 2006 Nissan Altima. I assume it was somewhere in the snow belt. From the outside the car looked pretty nice...but the guy could take his hand, and, from underneath, stick it thru the floor on the drivers side. The carpet was still there and the video showed him pushing the carpet up with his hand. Nissan told him it was his problem. First I have heard of rust problems with Nissan.
Does a focus group of 1 make it an "issue?"

Little search found TV stattion report from Kansas City that reported on the issue and they reviewed 400 reports from NHTSA on the issue , mostly 2002~~~> 2006 MY's

oldfarmer50 · February 2015

graphicguy said:
boomcheck....I meant to mention earlier how I enjoyed your explanation of your move into used cars. It sounds like it's working out well for you personally and financially, too.

I have an acquaintance (not really a friend) who owns a used lot. For you locals, it's out by the allegedly controversial Indian sign. He's had it for years. Same situation as you. He goes to auction, buys the cars. He has two sales guys who sells them for him....really a family sort of atmosphere.

He's a hybrid though. He has one sales guy who operates as a BHPH function and the other sales person sells the cars and gets them financed elsewhere.

I see these little lots with maybe 10-12-15 cars on them. I never could figure out how they stayed in business. But, if you're turning over your entire inventory once a month, and making $1,000+ per sale, I suppose it's doable.

I drive by the Manhiem auction all the times and you would be amazed at the number of small used lots within a few miles. I often see individual cars rolling out with dealer plates. Some of these lots are no more than 100' by 100'. Must be some profit in it.

boomchek · February 2015

graphicguy said:
boomcheck....I meant to mention earlier how I enjoyed your explanation of your move into used cars. It sounds like it's working out well for you personally and financially, too.

I have an acquaintance (not really a friend) who owns a used lot. For you locals, it's out by the allegedly controversial Indian sign. He's had it for years. Same situation as you. He goes to auction, buys the cars. He has two sales guys who sells them for him....really a family sort of atmosphere.

He's a hybrid though. He has one sales guy who operates as a BHPH function and the other sales person sells the cars and gets them financed elsewhere.

I see these little lots with maybe 10-12-15 cars on them. I never could figure out how they stayed in business. But, if you're turning over your entire inventory once a month, and making $1,000+ per sale, I suppose it's doable.

We keep between 20-30 cars here. A good month is when half of the inventory gets turned over. Some customers might be turned off by small lots, thinking they're fly by night operations, or that they don't have fancy showrooms or newer appearance, but other customers don't care, and rather deal directly with manager/owners. On my lot there's no "let's sit down and hammer out a deal in the office" talk. I send people out on a test drive and if they like it and want to talk price right on the lot, I cut to the chase and make a deal happen right there and then. And I remind customers why our prices are cheaper. We don't have a fancy showroom, franchise fees, and multiple layers of management to pay for, hence the low prices and good deals.

verdugo · February 2015

The fun started. Based on what Michaell told me, I should expect a MF of .00017 and a residual of 56%.

The dealer just told me the MF is .00059 and the residual is 50%.

I've never negotiated a lease. Do I just straight up ask me to give me .00017 and residual of 56% or I walk?
(Credit score is excellent.)

Thank you!

abacomike · February 2015

verdugo said:

The fun started. Based on what Michaell told me, I should expect a MF of .00017 and a residual of 56%. The dealer just told me the MF is .00059 and the residual is 50%. I've never negotiated a lease. Do I just straight up ask me to give me .00017 and residual of 56% or I walk? (Credit score is excellent.) Thank you!

Not necessarily. Each model has a different residual and adding certain packages can raise the residual if they are commonplace on that model.

Have Michaell double check his figures and make sure you tell him model, equipment, yearly mileage allowance and lease term (# of months) as well as MSRP. As for the money factor, same thing - double check figures. Also tell Michaell total out of pocket prior to taking delivery (acquisition fee, etc).

verdugo · February 2015

abacomike said:

Not necessarily. Each model has a different residual and adding certain packages can raise the residual if they are commonplace on that model.

Have Michaell double check his figures and make sure you tell him model, equipment, yearly mileage allowance and lease term (# of months) as well as MSRP. As for the money factor, same thing - double check figures. Also tell Michaell total out of pocket prior to taking delivery (acquisition fee, etc).

Thanks Mike. I did tell him all of that (http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5066895/#Comment_5066895 )

The Jeep will be ready to be picked up on Sunday, so I have a couple of days to figure it out.

Michaell's number are in line with what I found people have paid in another forum.

With the dealer's numbers, the payment is $130 higher than Michaell's.

abacomike · February 2015

@verdugo‌

Then inform the dealer you are expecting .00017 as a money factor and a 56% residual. If that is what others paid and what Michaell told you, that should be it!

stickguy · February 2015

the other good way to find out if they are on the up and up is to go to a different dealer, and price/lease out the same model with them. see what terms they come up with.

driver100 · February 2015

verdugo said:

abacomike said:

Not necessarily. Each model has a different residual and adding certain packages can raise the residual if they are commonplace on that model.

Have Michaell double check his figures and make sure you tell him model, equipment, yearly mileage allowance and lease term (# of months) as well as MSRP. As for the money factor, same thing - double check figures. Also tell Michaell total out of pocket prior to taking delivery (acquisition fee, etc).
Thanks Mike. I did tell him all of that (http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5066895/#Comment_5066895 )

The Jeep will be ready to be picked up on Sunday, so I have a couple of days to figure it out.

Michaell's number are in line with what I found people have paid in another forum.

With the dealer's numbers, the payment is $130 higher than Michaell's.

Verdugo, I don't like to haggle and hassle so I don't like to run all over the place to save $10 a month. But, $130 a month sounds way out of line from what Michaell and Mike seem to be saying would be reasonable. So, I would try another dealer....if the price given by another dealer is on target (with michaell) then you owe these guys nothing. If the price is similar, you can try other dealers or go back, at least you will know you aren't getting scammed.

When i leased my Jeep the dealer wanted $325 a month. I offered to buy it for $310 a month. He wouldn't go for it. I went to another dealer and got it for $285 a month and a much lower buy back. $40 a month for 30 months plus a buy back of $600 less really added up....especially in 1995.

stickguy · February 2015

6% difference in residual makes a big difference in payment. and that is what usually is fixed place to place.

nyccarguy · February 2015

@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

nyccarguy · February 2015

@boomchek‌

You know, I never thought of the small lot/low overhead business model in a positive light when it comes to the car sales industry. I always think it is some sort of shady operation. I just realized after reading your post that I should look at those types of independent dealers in a different light because that's how I do business myself. It makes perfect sense. My plumbing supply store is small, it is dirty and dingy, we don't have a fancy showroom. We sell the same basic things as other plumbing supply shops, but can do so at a lower price because my overhead is lower. This is truly fascinating.

What is something you have on your lot right now that you'd consider a bargain or a better deal than if it were at a dealer or a place like car max?

stickguy · February 2015

the thing that worries me about a lot of the small lots (different than your situation) is the quality of the units. the cheaper sales idea makes sense as long as the small guy has the access and can grab the good quality cars. I always thought the the dealers cherry picked the real good newer stuff off the manufacturer specific auctions.

I guess though once you get into slightly older (so not CPO level) cars, it all depends on if they want to pay a little more to get better quality stock for the lots. I guess there is no reason that a mom and pop can't do that. The problem is, traditionally, a lot of them have gone with older/more miled up units to sell cheap.

I would love Boom's lot, but I would really have to have a good reason to trust them!

abacomike · February 2015

nyccarguy said:

@boomchek‌ You know, I never thought of the small lot/low overhead business model in a positive light when it comes to the car sales industry. I always think it is some sort of shady operation. I just realized after reading your post that I should look at those types of independent dealers in a different light because that's how I do business myself. It makes perfect sense. My plumbing supply store is small, it is dirty and dingy, we don't have a fancy showroom. We sell the same basic things as other plumbing supply shops, but can do so at a lower price because my overhead is lower. This is truly fascinating. What is something you have on your lot right now that you'd consider a bargain or a better deal than if it were at a dealer or a place like car max?

Every business, whether it is in the auto industry, plumbing supplies, neighborhood bakery or pharmacy, can be successful with the correct/effective "niche"! It is the market niche that determines relative success with an appropriate business model coupled with a "style" of doing business that is trustworthy and consistent - something that customers can count on to be treated fairly and honestly.

My Dad owned and operated several retail women's shops on New York and New Jersey that were successful and the style of doing business that consumers trusted. Often he would get a phone call from various customers who said they were sending in their daughter with a blank signed check and to let them buy what they wanted - just fill in the amount. That required a tremendous amount of trust and a merchant who had integrity.

In summary, integrity breeds trust which in turn creates an atmosphere conducive to generating sales because of the maintenance of an effective marketing niche. One cannot succeed unless all of the above are well integrated into the business model and constantly monitored for adherence to sound business practices.

Boomchek is an example of that effective business model as I suspect you and your Dad are as well. I am sure driver100 followed that same modus operandi.

Even when I was a public school and private school administrator, I implemented those same principles - trust, integrity and honesty.

Michaell · February 2015

nyccarguy said:
@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.

roadburner · February 2015

tommister2 said:
@roadburner nice looking TJ. You'll love the new tires. The picture makes it look like you have no driver's side wiper blade (or maybe just how it displays on my iPad).

I DO love the BFGs; they are simply amazing! And I do have a drivers side wiper blade. I had both lifted both wipers off the windshield so that they wouldn't freeze, and I had not repositioned the driver's side wiper yet.

driver100 · February 2015

abacomike said:

nyccarguy said:

@boomchek‌

You know, I never thought of the small lot/low overhead business model in a positive light when it comes to the car sales industry. I always think it is some sort of shady operation. I just realized after reading your post that I should look at those types of independent dealers in a different light because that's how I do business myself. It makes perfect sense. My plumbing supply store is small, it is dirty and dingy, we don't have a fancy showroom. We sell the same basic things as other plumbing supply shops, but can do so at a lower price because my overhead is lower. This is truly fascinating.

What is something you have on your lot right now that you'd consider a bargain or a better deal than if it were at a dealer or a place like car max?

Boomchek is an example of that effective business model as I suspect you and your Dad are as well. I am sure driver100 followed that same modus operandi.

Even when I was a public school and private school administrator, I implemented those same principles - trust, integrity and honesty.

A small businesses can do well if the business owners are honest and treat their customers well. One thing boomers lot has, nyc has, your Dad's dress shops had, and I had was we were the original owners of the business. I have noticed to be on guard when new owners take over a business. Not always, but often, they have to raise prices to raise money to pay off the money thay paid for the business, and, since they didn't build the business from the ground up they don't know all the secrets - how to get the best product, how to keep customers, how to grow the business.

When I had to use independent garage mechanics I sometimes got a really good one...and I treated the guy like a king...because he should be valued.....there were 10 bad ones for every good one.

driver100 · February 2015

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.

Is a V6 higher or lower than a V8? What is worth more for residual value, diesel or gas? I assume a 4X4 is worth quite a bit more than a 4X2? I guess color can't be a factor, or is it?

houdini1 · February 2015

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.

Very interesting, keep us posted. The $130. a month adds up to almost $5,000. over the lease term.

Michaell · February 2015

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.
Is a V6 higher or lower than a V8? What is worth more for residual value, diesel or gas? I assume a 4X4 is worth quite a bit more than a 4X2? I guess color can't be a factor, or is it?

For reference, here are the 36/15 lease numbers for the JGC Limited:

4x4 gas - .00012 and 54%

4x4 diesel - .00012 and 56%

4x2 gas - .00016 and 53%

4x2 diesel - .00016 and 55%

Vehicle color or individual options do not affect the numbers. Neither does the V6 vs V8 engine choice for the gas models.

graphicguy · February 2015

Micheall....interesting to note about the different residuals for the different trim levels. Someone, somewhere is putting a ton of effort into coming up with the residuals to a level that granular. As houdini said, $5,000 over the course of the lease term isn't pocket change.

It's been a long time since I last leased. One of my biggest complaints about leasing is you do due diligence, carefully research everything, make a good deal, and then get barraged with all the other fees to make the deal much less attractive. Thinking lease inception fees, disposition fees, cap cost reduction, security deposits, abnormal wear and tear fees (which is something of a voodoo science in and of itself), etc.

Yeah....I'd like to hear how this plays out, too.

stever · February 2015

Yeah, even if I got a good initial deal, I'd worry about going over miles during the lease and would worry about getting dinged at lease turn-in.

driver100 · February 2015

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
@‌verdugo

There could be one of a couple things going on here:

#1 - they are bumping up the money factor on you. This is obviously unacceptable as you are an informed consumer with excellent credit.

#2 - they are using a different bank other than Chrysler's Finance arm, which would explain the 50% residual as opposed to the 56% residual that @Michaell told you. Remember, the residual is set by the bank and CANNOT be altered by the dealership.

Like @abacomike said, sometimes the manufacturers "play" with the numbers. A base Grand Cherokee 4 x 4 might have a 61% residual while a loaded Overland V8 might have a 56% residual. They might put a higher residual on a V6 GC vs. a V8 GC. Offers vary by region as well. Stand your ground & good luck. As always, keep us posted!

While #1 is possible, I'm thinking more along the lines of #2 .. Jeep dealers have several banks available to them for leases (US Bank and Ally are just two). The problem is, we don't have their numbers to validate against. And, the other banks often have large lease rebates available to offset the higher numbers.

And, I agree with the lower residuals for higher trim lines. Overland has a lower residual than a Limited. However, there is no difference in the numbers for V6 vs. V8. There are, however, different numbers for the diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee. And for 4x2 vs. 4x4.
Is a V6 higher or lower than a V8? What is worth more for residual value, diesel or gas? I assume a 4X4 is worth quite a bit more than a 4X2? I guess color can't be a factor, or is it?

For reference, here are the 36/15 lease numbers for the JGC Limited:

4x4 gas - .00012 and 54%

4x4 diesel - .00012 and 56%

4x2 gas - .00016 and 53%

4x2 diesel - .00016 and 55%

Vehicle color or individual options do not affect the numbers. Neither does the V6 vs V8 engine choice for the gas models.

Interesting! So, just to be clear, a higher residual will mean a lower monthly payment, but the buy-back price will be higher. And, does that mean you could get a more expensive car and actually pay less for it monthly, but, plan on not buying back at the end, and come out way ahead of the game?

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