What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

ruking1 said:

Much ado about NOT much!
http://news.yahoo.com/vw-sales-drop-europe-no-092332053.html

VW's real problem (both at home and in the US) is the lack of SUVs for sale. That's the gist of this Bloomberg story, in spite of the diesel focused headline:

VW's European Market Share Slips as Diesel Scandal Hits Demand

I did spot a nice white gasser Tiguan downtown this morning.

stever

Volkswagen apologizes to customers in giant full-page ad with no pictures (Mashable)

Forgot to look while running around this morning, but gasbuddy says diesel is running $2.04 here at one station (most are $2.19). Saw regular at a couple of spots for $1.79, with the majors running a nickel to a dime more.

No wonder people aren't shopping MPG.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree that there are distinct advantages to diesel power, but I wouldn't call them "tremendous"--in fact, it is the lack of any dramatic difference between a gas and diesel car that inhibits diesel sales.

ruking1

stever said:

Volkswagen apologizes to customers in giant full-page ad with no pictures (Mashable)

Forgot to look while running around this morning, but gasbuddy says diesel is running $2.04 here at one station (most are $2.19). Saw regular at a couple of spots for $1.79, with the majors running a nickel to a dime more.

No wonder people aren't shopping MPG.

Yup ! It follows the formula I had posted earlier ! It is the sunshine period for GM, etc. Actually I'm a little disappointed ULSD has NOT dropped to $ 1.85 to lower! Truthfully, if one is already in diesels, it's a wonderful time! ULSD for $ 2.04 @ 50, 40, 36, 33 mpg puts cpmd: fuel @ : 4.1 cents, 5.1 cents, 5.67cents, 6.18 cents!

stever said:

ruking1 said:

Much ado about NOT much!
http://news.yahoo.com/vw-sales-drop-europe-no-092332053.html

VW's real problem (both at home and in the US) is the lack of SUVs for sale. That's the gist of this Bloomberg story, in spite of the diesel focused headline:

VW's European Market Share Slips as Diesel Scandal Hits Demand

I did spot a nice white gasser Tiguan downtown this morning.

Indeed, Gagrice & I are two beneficiaries of those "lack of products" in the CUV segment.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree that there are distinct advantages to diesel power, but I wouldn't call them "tremendous"--in fact, it is the lack of any dramatic difference between a gas and diesel car that inhibits diesel sales.

I'm OK with that ! 95 to 97% of gasser owners totally agree with you! It's the "[non-permissible content removed] est" diesel extermination efforts that I take umbrage ! (Yes, I see the irony here) I was under the impression that was why WW2 was fought to defeat @ least one form of socialistic totalitarian thinking!

In a like model, it's wonderful to me that most folks will get 22 mpg & others get 35 mpg!!! If 59% better diesel mpg (plus others too boring to mention) is (are) not enough, so be it!

fintail

LOL at the "socialism" inclusion, especially seeing as WW2 had as much to do with socialism as either the self-titled victors or most wealthy people have to do with capitalism, and diesel seems most popular in areas called socialist (but also seem to have higher quality of life indices).

But yeah, diesel seems to have distinct advantages - torque and mileage. And often, durability. However, the typical lowest common denominator driver might not notice. They want Camry smoothness and running costs. Nothing else.

ruking1

Yup it is truly funny! [non-permissible content removed]

I'm OK with higher Camry running costs! Toyota Camry's are often cited as one car a lot of folks keep longer than others !

So to me, cycles of 12 years/180,000 miles shoul be one of @ least 2 cycles/markers. Anecdotally, I was hugely disappointed I felt the need to cut mine short @ 98.000 miles.

So 31.8 mpg vs 42.4 mpg (= 5, 660 gal RUG vs 4,245 gal ULSD ) = 1,415 gal more! Camry's use app 33.3% more! MORE gasoline use is ...better!

texases

Camry TCO: $37K
Passat TDI TCO: $40k
According to Edmunds...

carboy21

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree that there are distinct advantages to diesel power, but I wouldn't call them "tremendous"--in fact, it is the lack of any dramatic difference between a gas and diesel car that inhibits diesel sales.

That and the fact that diesels charge a premium over gassers . I would buy diesels only if they were on par with a similar gasser model .

ruking1

carboy21 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree that there are distinct advantages to diesel power, but I wouldn't call them "tremendous"--in fact, it is the lack of any dramatic difference between a gas and diesel car that inhibits diesel sales.

" That and the fact that diesels charge a premium over gassers . I would buy diesels only if they were on par with a similar gasser model" "

To me just make your best deals with gassers and diesels, etc., then (IF the diesel price is not the same) see if the diesel dealer will match a like model gasser's price. It is that easy/ hard for the excuses to vaporize. Essentially that's what I did for the last four diesels bought. and they all did, except one case, where the premium was $236 or so., in 2003. I think if I pressed, they would have dropped the premium. One would surmise it took me many miles to B/E!?

But then on the other hand, judging by the MUCH higher car (GASSER) prices, the reason might be an overall smoke screen.

Mr_Shiftright

BMW put out a pretty good commercial for diesel cars---somewhat daring attempt to actual play off Americans' prejudices. I thought it was funny that they showed us a Mercedes and a Volvo--obviously BMW does not share the counter-culture's enamore for the old oil burners:

BMW Superbowl Ad (2011)

ruking1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree that there are distinct advantages to diesel power, but I wouldn't call them "tremendous"--in fact, it is the lack of any dramatic difference between a gas and diesel car that inhibits diesel sales.

I'm OK with that ! 95 to 97% of gasser owners totally agree with you! It's the "[non-permissible content removed] est" diesel extermination efforts that I take umbrage ! (Yes, I see the irony here) I was under the impression that was why WW2 was fought to defeat @ least one form of socialistic totalitarian thinking!

In a like model, it's wonderful to me that most folks will get 22 mpg & others get 35 mpg!!! If 59% better diesel mpg (plus others too boring to mention) is (are) not enough, so be it!

xwesx

I think your link went astray. I get this page when I click it.

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks! Fixed it! Go look, it's an interesting marketing take on diesels.

xwesx said:

I think your link went astray. I get this page when I click it.

ruking1

Interesting take by a former Obama energy official, why US energy independence might actually not be good for the US! This of course goes against the environmental "nazism" narrative.

http://blogs.wsj.com/experts/2015/11/16/why-the-u-s-should-not-want-energy-independence/

Given the ratio of gasoline to "diesel" in a barrel of oil, (42 gal, 19 gal gasoline, to 10 gal of diesel, etc., etc., EIA.gov) good luck getting rid of gasoline, let alone diesel?

We do remember that our PVF is 95% to 97% gasoline, 3% to 5% diesel?

Oil is an "ORGANIC" resource & product. It always has been.

US market TDI products growth will be organic and not like a start up company! So that I am not vague, 3% to 5% ( this diesel % PVF taking 30 to 40 years to reach) will go to 4% to 6%.

This is why I am a little confused as to why Fintail doesn't chime in, given travels to Germany.

So again for (diesel) example, Germany is almost exponentially WAY further down the "ECO" energy path than the US can even DREAM to be! They are SO far down that path, that it is almost silly to compare the United States to Germany ! Indeed, even CA is not even close! (scale & eco wise) They of course do have the jackboot rules maker (ala, EPA/CARB )

So really it's very easy to see/understand why the Germans (gasoline/diesel car OEM) are so furious about the disengenousness & hypocrisy of the United States (EPA/CARB). Don't forget VW produces a large # and market share in Germany also!?

So another logical reason to BAN diesel & product use in United States is to be able to JACK UP the taxes on gasoline & of course remaining diesel use will follow. To a much lesser extent the profit for gasoline and especially diesel might go up.

So if you like structurally higher prices & taxation & continued & ever rising prices for gasoline, the clarion calls for banning diesels should continue.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Thanks! Fixed it! Go look, it's an interesting marketing take on diesels.

Looked. Hahah, that Volvo wagon seriously cracked me up. I used to see one nearly identical to that (in all ways) frequently on my commute. It's been a few years, though. I wonder if the guy finally bought himself a BMW diesel. LOL

ruking1

xwesx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Thanks! Fixed it! Go look, it's an interesting marketing take on diesels.

Looked. Hahah, that Volvo wagon seriously cracked me up. I used to see one nearly identical to that (in all ways) frequently on my commute. It's been a few years, though. I wonder if the guy finally bought himself a BMW diesel. LOL

Yeah, I think a lot of people forget that the gassers used to be a LOT worse than diesels ! So for example, the best thing that probably happened to gasoline in the middle 70s was lead removal from (RLG) regular leaded gasoline to (RUG) regular unleaded gasoline!!

Why it is not considered a huge dereliction of duty that EPA/CARB did NOT mandate and implement ULSD, 45 to 40 years ago (1970's) continues to confound!

Be that as it may, RUG/PUG (30 ppm, standard to 90 ppm) is still dirtier (2 times to 18 TIMES) than ULSD! (15ppm, standard nominally delivered @ 5 to 10 ppm)

Why EPA/CARB does not mandate RUG/PUG to be as clean as diesel, circa 2006 diesel mandates, continues to demonstrate disingenuousness & hypocrisy! It will not cost more than 20 cents per gal to do it!

texases

"Yeah, I think a lot of people forget that the gassers used to be a LOT worse than diesels !"

In what way? Lead, maybe. I've been behind far too many '70s-'80s diesel smoke generators...

ruking1

texases said:

"Yeah, I think a lot of people forget that the gassers used to be a LOT worse than diesels !"

In what way? Lead, maybe. I've been behind far too many '70s-'80s diesel smoke generators...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-pollution-from-cars.htm

And I take it you never have been behind any to many gasser smoke generators? That's either a lie or you have selective memory ?

Many local, city, and state agencies say that app 5% of PVF cause most (vehicular, aka mobile) gross polluter's ! So by PVF 3 to 5 % diesels. = .15 % to .25% As a public service they offer a mobile gross polluter reporting service, aka phone #.

texases

Diesel smokers = 10 X gasser smokers, on a % basis. ALL '70s diesels were smokers...

ruking1

texases said:

Diesel smokers = 10 X gasser smokers, on a % basis. ALL '70s diesels were smokers...

Then I'd say 6 of 1, half a doz of the other are your answers to the questions, in my post.

Diesel hate in full display? It is almost totally disingenuously & hypocritical to say that gassers are totally free of pollution, aka, are cleaner than diesels, when RUG/PUG is 2 times to 18 times DIRTIER? This is not even to mention the 10% ethanol dilution in RUG/PUG & it's destruction & extra costs of critical components "mandated" to handle this more corrosive product.

Here's another instance of environmental conservatives trying to separate themselves from "The MASSES"! As they pander to the "MASSES" ? http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ultimate-fast-track-for-vips-at-lax-1447872395

Of course, the Hollywood Propagandist Corporations can /will be able to write it off ?

Once again, I can't even make this stuff up !

ruking1

Slow diesel news day! So far only 120,000/482,000 US market VW diesel owners signed up to get gift cards!? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-120-00-u-diesel-owners-gift-231000753--finance.html

stever

Didn't read anything but the intro in your LAX link but since the TSA is publicly funded, I think everyone should be required to go through the same lines. Especially the 1%. But we're off-topic.

VW submits first diesel engine fix to German authorities (autoweek.com)

This fix isn't applicable to any of the US versions.


L.A. Auto Show: Porsche to Stop Selling Diesel Cayenne (hollywoodreporter.com)

I think this is old news rehashed by the CEO, but I don't get to link to the Hollywood Reporter very often.

New Interactive Mapping Tool Shows Effects of VW Diesel Scandal and Suggests How VW’s Response Could Make Amends to Those Hardest Hit (businesswire.com)

stever

Friday is a big day for VW and the EPA and CARB.

Kind of a rough story from the WSJ about it (registration only link).

"No one holds more sway over how much Volkswagen eventually may have to pay in fines and penalties than the EPA. But Volkswagen often has been defiant, to the point of publicly criticizing the agency’s testing methodology and suggesting the EPA was out to stifle competition.

Interactions between Volkswagen and the EPA got so bad that German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt publicly criticized the company after he met with agency officials last month.

The EPA “is dissatisfied—angry,” he said in Washington, D.C., after meeting U.S. officials. “Trust has been destroyed and it will take considerable work to rebuild it.”

Volkswagen also has frustrated regulators in Europe."

ruking1

Let's see, BIG government,BIG Union, BIG ego family, HUGE Union Pension & other ownerships , BIG Union Labor, & we are surprised ? And we want that model for our BIG 3?

stever

Big 2 but who's counting?

And yeah, talk about trying to run a business with all those competing factions, and they all have a seat at the table.

And likely a Seat in their garage. Or whatever the badge is called in their area.

ruking1

Yes, the BIG 3 seems to be metamorphasizing to the BIG 2 ! . With no inside knowledge, it seems MB dodged a bullet by cutting Dodge loose, a few years back.

Well I think one also has to acknowledge that before this fiasco, VW overtook Toyota for the number one unit sales world wide OEM spot! They still are probably #1 overall! They even "forced" Toyota to go to a platform concept. So that is truly no small feat !

Anecdotally I have been treated very well by Toyota and VW dealers. I have been less well treated by Toyota corporate and better treated by VW corporate ! The local MB dealer is also excellent. I've had no real dealings with MB corporate.

ruking1

This second articles' numbers confirm a very low percentage response to any (auto) recalls or even dare I say, eligible monies?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-120-00-u-diesel-owners-gift-231000753--finance.html

stever

Most people don't have time to keep up with that stuff. And some of us have intentionally shined on recalls - I waited ~8 months on the van's ignition key recall, and managed to skip the first one entirely when they updated the recall. But I knew about it and knew how to address the issue if it had actually happened (and told my wife about it too). And we don't carry pounds of trinkets on our key fob.

The other 75% of the people just don't hear about the recalls, don't service their cars and when they do get an oil change, they don't use a dealer. Big problem for the NHTSA.

texases

I'd wait, hoping it'll be like the airlines when they try to encourage folks off an overbooked flight. They keep upping the compensation until they get enough folks accepting. I'd think EPA/CARB will put a lot of pressure on VW to make the deal sweet enough that a fair % of owners will bring them in. We'll see if CARB pulls the 'no fix, no register' trigger...

fintail

Here in Switzerland, gasoline and diesel are about the same price, diesel sometimes a few cents more. Still tons of them on the road, especially for cars that aren't little tin cans. Kind of surprising for a place that in many ways hates cars (save for those owned by brave warriors of the diplomatic/NGO community and the tax dodgers who buy their way in, of course), maybe it isn't such a big deal. I don't notice a diesel pall or similar, but I did see what I think was a later model Alfa letting out some smoke - could have been an Italian registered vehicle though.

Regarding diesel recalls, these are different from some of the generic stuff that makes page 32 of the paper or is featured on the news just after the story of a cat stuck in a tree. The VW thing was a headline for an extended period. If someone missed it, they live in a cave - and I suspect most VW and diesel people in general keep up with things more than average.

ruking1

I have to say that on any number of levels, I am very grateful for having found this Edmunds.com website and this particular topic. IF I have, get or develop the "bugger off" attitude now, from the VW diesel fiasco (2009 Jetta TDI ), I stand to post one of the lowest cpmd: depreciation of all new cars, I have ever bought!?

Further, if I buy one of the "eligible" used VW diesel cars (i.e., 2009 VW Jetta TDI)at a substantial discount, (some articles alleged - minus 13 to 14% depreciation ) and THEN get the $ 1,200 & VW Road Assist (3/4 have not claimed it yet) , sell it, that would drop my costs & cpmd: depreciation (going forward) even further, as low as 2.1 cents per mile driven!? Either scenario pushes the so called "diesel premium" into almost nothingness!?

Yet the truth is : any to all of them (diesels eligible for fiasco monies) are GREAT used cars!? Plus, whatever they agree upon as "a fix" will have to have some sort of a emissions warranty, aka, 7 years/70,000 miles? THEN (man this goes on like waves from a pebble thrown in a pond) one can get loyalty monies i($ 2 k currently ) IF one will want a new VW (going forward again)!

Mr_Shiftright

BIG union? Where, on Mars? Not in the USA at any rate. Private sector unions are minor players here, representing a very small percentage of US workers. 6.7%, that's it. This is 2015, not 1983.

Diesels were way worse as "smokers" than gas cars...some gas cars belched smoke but ALL diesel cars did back then. I think that was BMW's point. That was then, this is now. New ball game.

ruking1 said:

Let's see, BIG government,BIG Union, BIG ego family, HUGE Union Pension & other ownerships , BIG Union Labor, & we are surprised ? And we want that model for our BIG 3?

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

BIG union? Where, on Mars? Not in the USA at any rate. Private sector unions are minor players here, representing a very small percentage of US workers. 6.7%, that's it. This is 2015, not 1983.

Diesels were way worse as "smokers" than gas cars...some gas cars belched smoke but ALL diesel cars did back then. I think that was BMW's point. That was then, this is now. New ball game.

ruking1 said:

Let's see, BIG government,BIG Union, BIG ego family, HUGE Union Pension & other ownerships , BIG Union Labor, & we are surprised ? And we want that model for our BIG 3?

Lol! Reel it back in Shifty! You are running off the reservation there! US big auto UNIONS are a government (franchised) monopoly! I'm not sure about Germany, but I don't imagine it's too much different ? So say you wanted to compete with the UAW @ GM lol! Good Luck with that!?

We are way beyond the 60's Che, Castro, solidarity wid dah people's, etc. I would hate to think that when Castro was first getting in, that you didn't know he was THE emperor! The other slobs were just keeping the throne warm for him. He just had a different clothing style sense! On the other hand, he ripped off the mob BIG time! F/ F to 2015, I think they (Castro Bros ) let Obama think he got a deal because they want "the building trades " to come back to spruce up the island empire after 55 or so years of "bad maintenance" ! ? !

I am talking German auto unions, Lower Saxony (nation state) and THEIR unions!

ruking1

Given some of the stuff said here about diesels, this 2016 Prius review is hilarious!

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-toyota-prius-first-drive-1302286559780918.html

I may have to add that ( Prius) to my list of 11 to 13 things they have to correct in gassers to get me to go back to a gasser, much less a gasser hybrid.

..."This new one feels like an actual car."....After 12 years, already like an actual car?

Still not @ 60mpg sworn to in 2004?

texases

Glad to see they've really upgraded the Prius. Not a fan of the styling, but otherwise a worth a look next time I'm in the market.

stever

I'm ready to buy, waiting on the 2016 Prius V before pulling the trigger on anything (Soul and Encore are the other choices). If the V gets delayed much beyond January, well, I just may eat the higher fuel prices. Be nice to see a 4 door Golf, but sheesh, there aren't any around here.

Tomorrow is the "big" day. Meanwhile, VW America CEO apologizes in person for diesel mess. (autoblog.com)

ruking1

Pray tell, which "high consumptive" gasser would force a religious conversion?

I say bring back the vestal virgins, so the long suffering can worship @ the altar of the persnickety fuel economy gods, of which the article speaks!! Well, they beat the jack boot imperial storm troopers?

Wow, I was surprised to see that the 2016 Kia Soul posts 22 mpg ? ! I've ridden app six round trips in one of those, circa 2015 MY. It belongs to one of the local auto shops I use.

If The Buick Encore is assembled in China, it will be interesting to get your take!

ruking1

Well, (as I have projected and predicted) it looks like 2018, first quarter might probably be the EARLIEST VW can start with the diesel repairs, PENDING EPA/CARB approvals.
http://news.yahoo.com/vw-only-few-costly-options-204355789.html

So if they do a buy back, priced @ high blue book @ announcement in 2015, when the fiasco was announced, 2018, three years hence, I'll get in effect, free use for app 3 years/ 15,000 miles yr or app 4.8 to 5.4 cents, depreciation: cpmd.

IF VW further ante's up with $2 k plus, owners loyalty and ZERO % & down & situational specials, after best deal, I am SO into the next 2018/2019/2020 diesel, already!

Mr_Shiftright

I...er... I'm having a hard time following what you're talking about, sorry.

At any rate, UAW only makes 54% of the cars and trucks in America and this percentage is declining every year . All in all bailing out the American auto industry  has turned out to be one of the greatest examples of prudent and decisive government intervention during grave economic crises. The EU would certainly have done the same. 

ruking1

Essentially this VW "diesel fiasco" might be a real life crisis DRILL, (going forward) just like what happened to GM, but what happened to GM wasn't a drill!? The VW fiasco will probably be sans the bankruptcy & is self inflicted (to concentrate focus) ! VW has 2.5 % of the US market and did FINE when talking heads were sweating if the US market (2007/2008) would hit 10M ! GM has 18% of the US markets!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gives-gm-big-competitive-advantage-003518014.html

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

I...er... I'm having a hard time following what you're talking about, sorry.

At any rate, UAW only makes 54% of the cars and trucks in America and this percentage is declining every year . All in all bailing out the American auto industry  has turned out to be one of the greatest examples of prudent and decisive government intervention during grave economic crises. The EU would certainly have done the same. 

Essentially, Germany will do what it has to for VW's long term survival. I made that point a while back. To cut to the chase, the US government will keep a short leash on the "attack dogs," so to speak.

GM's 2009 market share in Europe was@ 9.4%.

The other disingenuous thing is 44 mpg is the average, European Vs 25 mpg IF the United States is lucky ! So again this diesel fiasco is much ado about nothing.

stever

ruking1 said:

If The Buick Encore is assembled in China, it will be interesting to get your take!

I "wrote up" our test drive a few months back in the 2015 Encore discussion. It's nice, maybe a bit SUVish for my taste. Tad bit better mph at 25/33 than the Soul, which comes in at 24/31.

Jaguar/Land Rover has a new engine out, the Ingenium. The diesel flavor is being shown at the LA Auto Show this week. (gtspirit.com) A Wikipedia Land Rover blurb indicates that the same engine would be tweaked for gas or diesel as well as for hybrid applications.

Mr_Shiftright

Hard to believe that GM used to own about 55% of the market

ruking1

stever said:

ruking1 said:

If The Buick Encore is assembled in China, it will be interesting to get your take!

I "wrote up" our test drive a few months back in the 2015 Encore discussion. It's nice, maybe a bit SUVish for my taste. Tad bit better mph at 25/33 than the Soul, which comes in at 24/31.

Jaguar/Land Rover has a new engine out, the Ingenium. The diesel flavor is being shown at the LA Auto Show this week. (gtspirit.com) A Wikipedia Land Rover blurb indicates that the same engine would be tweaked for gas or diesel as well as for hybrid applications.

Yes, modularity! I'm not sure if they adopted the platform concept ?

It's hardly a stinging diesel rebuke when other OEM's enter the US diesel market: Jaguar/LR, Nissan, GMC, Chevrolet : joining Audi, BMW, ,MB, VW, RAM, Ford, Porsche. Again organic growth seems to be the road map?

stever

Yeah, but maybe not in the US.

carboy21

Mr_Shiftright said:

I...er... I'm having a hard time following what you're talking about, sorry.

At any rate, UAW only makes 54% of the cars and trucks in America and this percentage is declining every year . All in all bailing out the American auto industry  has turned out to be one of the greatest examples of prudent and decisive government intervention during grave economic crises. The EU would certainly have done the same. 

German government will bail out VW , too.
Even if they don't get any fix, VW can afford to dump the US market completely and focus on high profit Audi.
TDI without a fix are good enough for the European markets where its majority sales are.
US has so many Japanese and Korean cars to chose from that VW is an ugly and unreliable option for most car buyers except the hard core frugal German fans .Those who can afford will buy the German luxury marquees.

ruking1

Yes, but there are a host of nays, that get glossed over treatment! The realities up ends the stereotypes! I was reading in an auto industry article that the AVG price for new (gasser- I don't know why I have to say this continuously) cars/autos US market sales is something along the lines of $34,000 . I spent approximately $14,000 less for the 2009 Jetta TDI. In terms of that AVERAGE gasser price, what does the logic imply?

TMI
I will tell you that I thought that I spent too much (@minus - $14,000 less) and got a lot of "options" that I really didn't need nor want. It appears by that (high average) many people prefer to spend their monies on "other than diesel" rather then the issue of diesels costing more than gassers!

So one can get both poles: cheapest gassers &/or diesels TO most expensive. Somehow that logic escapes the diesel haters ! ?

How do they think I get the low (cents cost per mile driven : depreciation ) figures that I do?

In fact, the VW "diesel fiasco" makes the figures (potentially as the $1k GW hasn't arrived. Nor their B/B offers) even better .??!!! Go figure ? Those figures are probably cheaper than their gassers! (like model, competition) In fact, few to nobody else talk/s that way or very very few do. (cpmd)!? When folks refuse to compare, they don't REALLY know if diesels cost more or less ! ? So when I do the math ( with FULL transparency any body can change, check ?, etc.) it threatens the "anti" narrative! IF it helps somebody decide yay/nay, then hopefully it adds value!

So really the (answer) formula is simple! Given 12 years (2/3 rds % avg age of PVF,15k miles per year AVG) 180,000 miles / into the so called premium = CPMD!

So here is an easy one $236. diesel premium/180,000 miles = $ .0013111 cents per mile driven. Even with the latest brouhaha & age, the 03 Jetta TDI can get $1,500 min more resale. Anybody care to see if the calculator batteries are working?

So don't express moral outrage that this is NOT scale able!

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hard to believe that GM used to own about 55% of the market

A stark reality it, is isn't it? Fortunately or UN, they've worked VERY hard to get that current downtrend @ 17/18 %! My father brought me up a GM fanboy (Pontiac fan, he) It might have had something to do with being a volunteer in WW2, IWO JIMA vet no less!

Me? I was never impressed from childhood ! 4/5 years old) I love cars from childhood. However, in 2001, the Corvette Z06 was one of GM's successes, that they were almost able to kill some years earlier. Prior to the Z06, I bought no GM products . Knock on wood with app 76,000 miles, outside of a heap of warranty fixes (again I applied the no harm, no foul principle, as GM stepped up) it has been running well!

Compared to any diesel I've had, it's a junker ?! Do I like it ? Absolutely! Will admit it? Probably not ! I live by dictum, never let a machine know that you like it or need it!

So, ....why do I do that with diesels , one & all will probably ask ?

In effect, I am DARING each & every one of them to fail !

So you can see why I don't even DARE to do that with the Chevrolet !?

stever

News is trickling in, albeit slowly. Guess VW is in "meetings" with the agencies at the moment.

Biggest news so far is that the second (or third?) suspected software cheat on the six cylinder US models goes back to 2009, not just 2014 as the EPA first said. Well, that, and more spending cuts by VW.

The Latest: US says more cars included in VW diesel cheating (sacbee.com)

stever

Another nastygram via Jalopnik. The "Golf" stationery was a nice touch.

Bit of profanity in the link headline, if you're at work....