Real-World Trade-In Values

Michaell

g8orgrant said:

Some have suggested that banks (and it's US Bank in this case) have insurance against residuals. Even if that's the case, that car will still hit an auction or be sold to a dealer for far less than my residual. Was it really such a bad idea to suggest to the dealer he can do all the back-end stuff (buy it for the actual wholesale value), Certify it, re-sell it to me for the real market price, and sell a car within one day of it being sellable on his lot?

But the bank is made whole by the insurance policy, so they have no vested interest in doing anything else.

Your dealer has to work with the bank to make this happen as you describe. But, the bank isn't going to budge.

Ergo, no deal for you.

g8orgrant

Michaell, so how's that car eventually going to wind up on some dealer's lot at the market price, which right now is about $19k for a certified version? It's great for the bank if they have some insurance here, but something has to give if the off-lease ones are sitting on dealer lots for $19K certified? I know residuals can fluctuate month to month, but no chance that my residual was $20.8K and the prior months it was $17K. So insurance or not, the bank and Volvo North America are finding a way to get them onto dealer lots at a price that allows them to be certified and listed for $19K. What am I missing here?

Or another way, if I turn my car in and walk away, what's going to happen to it? Nobody's EVER paying the bank $20.8k for it. So what's next for it?

kyfdx

10 years ago, it happened all the time. So, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Also, we don't know that they have residual insurance, we just know that most banks put a stop to negotiating the buyout. Especially, the captive finance companies. They'd rather cut a deal for their dealer network, than cut you one. I think it was a smart decision for them.

qbrozen

g8orgrant said:

Michaell, so how's that car eventually going to wind up on some dealer's lot at the market price, which right now is about $19k for a certified version?

Well, I THINK they have to send it off to auction, then the insurance pays the difference between actual selling price and the residual (or maybe some portion of the residual??). I've never gotten a totally straight answer on it.

asafonov

Mr_Shiftright said:

asafonov said:

Would appreciate guidance on private party asking price.

2002 Chevrolet Prizm
162,000 miles
Manual transmission
Power locks, crank windows, cruise control
CD/MP3 detachable face stereo
Good condition, no rust.
Diligently maintained, have all receipts since 2003

Minneapolis

Maybe $2500 for a decent one, $3000 for a puff?

A couple of months ago, I asked here about a private party value for a 2002 manual Prizm. Ended up listing on on Craigslist for $2,500, got no responses, so gradually lowered my price to $1,800. Just sold it for $1,600 - the car needed about $200 of parts and labor to take care of the check engine caused by the vapor lock.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I must have been thinking California prices---but the public has spoken, at least in MN

qbrozen

To be fair, the original post said nothing of a CEL

asafonov

qbrozen said:

To be fair, the original post said nothing of a CEL

The CEL appeared shortly after my original posting.

As Mr_ShiftRight said, the market has spoken.

xwesx

asafonov said:

qbrozen said:

To be fair, the original post said nothing of a CEL

The CEL appeared shortly after my original posting.

As Mr_ShiftRight said, the market has spoken.

Overall, I'd say you did just fine. Once a car reaches that age and mileage, I figure that when you sell it, you're just getting residual value of out of it. It really doesn't have any remaining useful left (it served its role for you through that period). So, anyone who buys it is most likely going to drive it until it quits, and then go looking for the next cheap car.

It is a sad but true cycle of the life of most cars.

xwesx

Okay, Q, please give me an idea of trade-in value on this. I'm trying to peg a reasonable retail price:

2011 Ford Flex Limited w/ AWD & Ecoboost
51,213 miles
Earthtone Metallic (sort of a silver-brown color) w/ tan leather interior
Nav, roof rack, trailer hitch.
No Pano Roof, DVD system, or rear console (bucket seats)

Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
The dealer said they plan to CPO this one, which is basically an extension of factory powertrain to 7/100, with original in-service date as 11/29/2010, and will retail it for $26,500 (seems a little high to me, but hard to gauge since used Ecoboost Flexes are really hard to come by up there).

Condition is good overall (no dents), but does have a few significant scratches in the paint here and there, as well as having the passenger door mirror glass detached (held in place w/ duct tape around the perimeter. The interior is, um, perhaps typical family? Dirty, but doesn't appear damaged (e.g., will look really good after a detailing with perhaps some scuffs here and there).

Let me know if I missed anything, and thanks!

js06gv

I don't know much about CPO programs other than what I've read, but it doesn't seem plausible to me that any dealer could get away with labeling a car CPO with duct tape holding a part together. Am I off?

xwesx

js06gv said:

I don't know much about CPO programs other than what I've read, but it doesn't seem plausible to me that any dealer could get away with labeling a car CPO with duct tape holding a part together. Am I off?

LOL; no, this thing was fresh off the trade - they had yet to prep it for resale. They said that they had the sideview on order and would replace it as part of the prep, which is why it was not yet prepped....

I was just giving current condition information as I would expect that had some feedback into the trade value. However, according to the salesman who contact me on it, the PO was the regional manager's (adult) daughter, so she probably got a smokin' deal on her new Explorer, and who knows how they wrote it up to make that happen?

asafonov

xwesx said:

asafonov said:

qbrozen said:

To be fair, the original post said nothing of a CEL

The CEL appeared shortly after my original posting.

As Mr_ShiftRight said, the market has spoken.

Overall, I'd say you did just fine. Once a car reaches that age and mileage, I figure that when you sell it, you're just getting residual value of out of it. It really doesn't have any remaining useful left (it served its role for you through that period). So, anyone who buys it is most likely going to drive it until it quits, and then go looking for the next cheap car.

It is a sad but true cycle of the life of most cars.

I completely agree with you, considering the deafening lack of interest from (non-spam) buyers. It took some time and a significant price lowering, but the first buyer who took the time to test-drive it and have it checked by a mechanic, bought it for his son. I am sure that the manual significantly reduced the pool of buyers.

explorerx4

@xwesx,
In service date 11/29/2010, seven years ends 11/29/2017. The are supposed to provide you with a carfax report, too. This is assuming it's a Ford CPO and not a 'dealer' CPO.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

@xwesx,
In service date 11/29/2010, seven years ends 11/29/2017. The are supposed to provide you with a carfax report, too. This is assuming it's a Ford CPO and not a 'dealer' CPO.

I just took an initial look / drive at this point, so haven't asked them for much regarding it other than the in-service date. Nearly 2.5 years of powertrain coverage (would definitely run out of time before miles) and twelve months of an approximation of factory bumper-to-bumper is appealing, but I'm not sure it is worth the added cost (NADA says that is ~$1,800 added to price). So, they have the car priced exactly at NADA retail from what I can tell.

qbrozen

Well we know alaska is its own little world when it comes to used cars, usually much higher, right? Down here, that's a $23k car at auction, so sounds like a good deal for CPO. 

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Well we know alaska is its own little world when it comes to used cars, usually much higher, right? Down here, that's a $23k car at auction, so sounds like a good deal for CPO. 

Thanks, Q. Yeah, it is definitely its own world, whether used or new, which is why I typically buy out-of-state. This one seemed like a somewhat reasonable asking price (exactly NADA retail value, from what I can tell), so I thought I would get a reality check. I figured I must me missing something!

lekun

I am considering trading in my 2012 Acura TL Base with 44k miles. Dark Grey, black interior in Oregon. Probably needs new tires, but otherwise in excellent condition.

Any ideas on what I should expect on trade?

isellhondas

No bank is going to allow a lessor to negotiate a residual. this would open a huge can of worms once the word got out. You can certainly ASK but any "deals" will be made between the dealer and the bank. Neither the bank or the dealer want you involved you, again, you can either buy the car or walk away. These were the terms you signed up for and hopefully understood at the time of your lease inception. By the same token, if for some reason your car ended up being worth a lot more than the residual, thy bank couldn't have raised the price on you.

Not every used car buyer cares if the car is a CPO car. for some shoppers this adds very little value in their minds. It can cost a store a couple of thousand dollars fixing and replacing the nitpicking little things the manufactures require.

abatra

Looking for a trade-in value for my car if anyone can help?

2009 Audi A4 Quattro - Premium Plus trim with Nav
65,000 miles
Dark Blue color

Trying to see if I can trade-in for an A3 and what the delta would be.

explorerx4

@abatra,
Location and condition info helps.

abatra

explorerx4 said:

@abatra,
Location and condition info helps.

@explorerx4 thanks for asking

Location is SF Bay Area, CA and condition is good - clean, dealer maintained, mostly used on weekends

qbrozen

2012 TL - hmmm... I have no northwest data to go on, unfortunately. Out east, we're talking $16k-$16.5k. In CA, maybe $17k.

A4 - $12k-$13k for the 4cyl; add $2k for the 6-cyl.

sb55

Q. Any idea of private party sale of 2006 Subaru Legacy wagon, 99,xxx miles in Northern VT. SE model, blue with tan leather. Tires less than 8K miles and all services up to date. Panoramic sunroof doesn't work. Body is good and straight, but few small dings here and there. These cars are know to need head gasket work that has not been done and is recommended within 10K miles when the timing belt is changed.

qbrozen

Maybe $3500-$4k trade, if that, given the moonroof problem. Private party? Eh, who knows? I think you'd be lucky to get $5k, but I'd be sure it is someone who knows the work it needs.

Mr_Shiftright

It would be great if you could dump it before the odometer rolls over to 100,000. It's psychological, so don't ask.

crob125

Trying to figure out if I have any equity in my lease 2013 MDX Awd Base Model, Dark Cherry Red, Running Boards, Roof Rack, excellent condidion 31,700 miles. I have 4 payments left at $430/monthly, but need front tires. My residual value on my lease says $24378. The dealer told me my appraisal value is $27500 so it's a wash to start a new lease. What do you think?

kyfdx

crob125 said:

Trying to figure out if I have any equity in my lease 2013 MDX Awd Base Model, Dark Cherry Red, Running Boards, Roof Rack, excellent condidion 31,700 miles. I have 4 payments left at $430/monthly, but need front tires. My residual value on my lease says $24378. The dealer told me my appraisal value is $27500 so it's a wash to start a new lease. What do you think?

If the difference is $3000, how is that a wash? Are they giving you $3000 of credit for the new lease?

qbrozen

So, you have $1720 of payments remaining, plus the residual, bringing you to $26,100. They are appraising it at $27,500. So $1400 equity.

stickguy

IOW, fees, etc required to roll out in a fresh lease. Just bring it in and swap keys.

robr2

So I'm sitting here at the Honda dealer getting the oil changed on the Odyssey. I walked the used line and suddenly became enamored with this as my sales rep vehicle:

2007 Lexus ES 350 base
Red over tan leather
71K miles
Nav, heated and cooled seats, sunroof, back up camera
tires about 80%
couple of nicks and scratches
1 owner and carfax shows serviced at Lexus dealer every 4-5 months or 5K miles
dealer asking $16K no haggle
JTHBJ46g872102242
Boston as usual

qbrozen

That's quite high.
Average units are $9k-$10k. Creampuffs are mid $11s.

robr2

Thanks q...off to the next one.

ssk2k

Hi all.. Newbie here. I tried to search thru the 1500 pages here but couldn't get a good idea on a trade in price for a 2009 bmw 535i.

I have about $8000 remaining on the loan, I bought it certified in 2011 for $40k, and it currently has 67000 miles on it.
It has the premium and sport package. Last year I had a front bumper crash which did hurt the front bumper that needs to replaced, approx cost would 1000 to 1200.

I love the car, but we are looking at a CUV now, and am curious if it is worth trading in or holding on to, especially if dealers low ball it due to the accident??

qbrozen

Looking back at old prices wouldn't give you a good idea of current value anyway.

So, let's see...
So you've got a banged up bumper. I'll assume no metal has been damaged. Do you know if it shows on carfax? Was it reported?

I'll also assume it is an automatic. I'll call it good condition otherwise, with all maintenance up to date, tires have plenty of tread, brakes have plenty of pad, no other damage to the car. If any of these assumptions are incorrect, start deducting.

I'd expect $10k ... maybe wander up to $11k if they feel they can get the bumper fixed on the cheap.

ssk2k

It was reported to insurance unfortunately, so it may show in carfax. Maintenance is up to date with 3 new run flat tires over the last 2 years. I am thinking of taking it to carmax to get an estimate.

roadburner

Any idea about this puppy?
Ford CPO 2015 Mustang GT Premium
The only options it lacks are Recaros and the rear parking sensors; I believe MSRP was around $42k-$43k, so I'm thinking $35k might snag it.
In other news, I don't think my BMW dealer will go for $36k on that 335is- even if it would keep me in the BMW fold...

nyccarguy

It says in the description that they are a no haggle dealership.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

It says in the description that they are a no haggle dealership.

We'll see; that's what I like about not needing to buy a car- I just walk if the deal doesn't work out.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

Any idea about this puppy?
Ford CPO 2015 Mustang GT Premium
The only options it lacks are Recaros and the rear parking sensors; I believe MSRP was around $42k-$43k, so I'm thinking $35k might snag it.
In other news, I don't think my BMW dealer will go for $36k on that 335is- even if it would keep me in the BMW fold...

Their price isn't bad, actually, compared to those at auction, which are in that $33k+ neighborhood.

roadburner

Thanks!

roadburner

Without ant bargaining on my part the Ford dealer went down to $36,500 and offered $4,500 for the MS3- $32,000+TTL. Now I just have to decide if I really want it...

cocon

Hello. I have an 2014 Audi RS5 coupe with about 25K mi on it. I need to know what is the trade in value. Car is in exceptional mint condition!! Has MMI+,Alu-optic pkg,20''silver wheels,sepang blue pearl paint,black nappa leather..

nyccarguy

Nice rig! @qbrozen is going to want to know what city & state you are located in. How come you are dumping it?

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Nice rig! @qbrozen is going to want to know what city & state you are located in. How come you are dumping it?

@cocon is in the Denver metro area and we've been going back and forth on a lease of an RS7. His lease is almost up.

qbrozen

RS5 - so I guess you are trying to find out if you have any equity. I'd be surprised if you did on an Audi, but let's find out ... 25k miles is higher than any others that have gone through auction, so that's not good. I'm going to have to hit is at $51k ... maybe MAYBE $52k if the dealer really loves it and they are popular in your area. On the other hand, could be down as low as $50k if they are a tough sell.

g8orgrant

So here's the post-mortem on my end of lease experience with my Volvo S60. And it's really a head scratcher, at least in my opinion.

The crux was that I wanted to buy my car off-lease for market price, and ideally have the dealer CPO it. My residual was about $20.9K, and similar ones are on dealer lots for about $19K - $20K CPO'ed. I visited the dealer a few weeks ago, and the manager was adamant that it wasn't possible, and he even suggested that the car would wind up in the midwest when I asked how any local dealer would be able to buy it for a price higher than they're being listed for, CPO'ed. The whole thing made no sense, even after I kept stressing that I was looking to make it the easiest CPO sale he's ever had. He kept saying that it can't be purchased by anyone for below residual, which just seemed incomprehensible to me.

So I turned it in on Friday, and it's already on his lot as a CPO for $21K. I recently had some back and forth here with isellhondas, who was insistent that the residual wasn't intended to be negotiated, and I get all the reasons why the banks can't be in that business. But if the dealers are able to buy them at market rate, than the real answer is that residuals ARE negotiable, at least for Volvo dealers. But it still doesn't make sense why the General Manager was insistent that it's not possible. Keep in mind that I leased my car from his dealership, and routinely brought it to him for service (the car had full maintenance included, so it wasn't me eating the high dealership service costs, but that's not really relevant here). So I can't figure out why he'd have me walk out and take the risk of sitting on that car to try to sell it to someone else when the whole process could have been so easy and smooth, as I had expected it to be. And even crazier, my in-laws had an S60 coming off lease, so i was really trying to do this with two cars. He let both those sales walk out of his store, for no reason at all, at least as I can tell.

qbrozen

definitely a head scratcher.

kyfdx

@g8orgrant Don't know about Volvo, but a few years back, BMW put in some restrictions that keeps the original lessee from doing exactly what you wanted to do.. Adding hefty fees on the vehicle, if the dealer sells it back to them, after buying it at a discount from Volvo Finance.

It's possible that Volvo does something similar.

10 years ago, there were all sorts of ways around unrealistically high residuals at lease end. The banks/manufacturers are trying to capture some of that money for themselves. (not that the high residuals aren't good for the lessee.. that's what gets you the low lease payment).

qbrozen

regardless, the GM should have been honest about it. If he has to bid on it just like all other dealers, than say so. To say it is impossible and then have it on your lot is an awful way to try to do business.

I'm usually one to just move on with my life, take my business elsewhere, and let my money do the talking. But this calls for a letter to the owner, IMHO, to let him/her/them know why I am now going to a competing dealership.