The Future Of The Manual Transmission

british_rover

AHar har funny.

One of my co-workers just had his Fifefiehisihthish birthday the other day.

Being the youngest guy here I nailed him with old man jokes all day.

shipo

...hell I don't know. ;-)

To tell the truth my mind still thinks it's in its twenties, however, my first car with a manual gearbox was a "three on the floor", with Reverse up and to the left, First below that, Second up and to the right, and Third below that. Ummm, I guess that kinda dates me huh?

Best Regards,
Shipo

seminole_kev

Seems I remember 3-speed Mustangs from the 60's being that config.

Jumping back and forth between the old Jag with R at top left, and a modern stick with 1st at the top left can cause some interesting moments from time to time.

Nothing like the ol', look one way while the car moves another trick for a laugh.......

shipo

I'm thinking that all four U.S. manufacturers used a "Three on the Floor" in a few cars. A friend had a Camaro with it, my best friend's mom had a Javelin with a three on the floor, and when I bought my 1970 Challenger it had it as well. That said, I probably only drove that tranny for 20,000 miles before I yanked it and threw in a New Process 4-Speed that I got out of a wrecked 440 Super-Bee.

Years after I put the 4-Speed in I would still upon occasion accidentally throw it into first when I meant Reverse. The only car that I ever drove after that that "felt" right was a 1983(ish) Porsche 928 5-Speed. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

andys120

my first car with a manual gearbox was a "three on the floor", with Reverse up and to the left, First below that, Second up and to the right, and Third below that. Ummm, I guess that kinda dates me huh?

I'll go you one better, a college buddy of mine bought a new
'63 Sting Ray with a three on the floor. :sick:

cdnpinhead

drive manual transmission cars, as do I. I taught two of them to drive, and that too was a pleasure.

OTOH, their spouses . . . well, not so much, except for one. We're a car family, and thrifty (cheap) besides, generally speaking. Manuals are more fun & cost less. What's not to like?

In the "number of manual gears owned at any one time" discussion, I'd have to go back to the days of my Fuller RT9509, 240Z & 610 (both Datsuns). Two people, 17 gears -- engaged and/or skipped whenever and however we wanted, but it's been a couple decades or so.

nippononly

I for a brief time (a few months if memory serves) owned cars totalling 25 gears, among 5 stick shift cars. Including two Supras of different generations at the same time. One was my baby, the other was a newer one I was trying on for size, which I didn't like as much (the much-maligned MkIII).

But I must confess I am amazed at the vintage of some of our posters here (:-P), and that I have never sampled a 3-speed manual, although I have owned my share of 4-speeds. 5 forward gears is better than 4. :-)

PF_Flyer

5 is better than 4, and now I'm adjusting to 6 forward gears in the new Versa. The problem hasn't been in the Versa really. It's that when I get in one of the other cars I now WANT a 6th gear :P

I darn near got the Altima into 6th the other day. Of course, I think it's that "racing" gear because it's labeled "R"

Grind 'em till they fit! :surprise:

bumpy

25 in five vehicles here, for a month after I bought the S2000 and before I sold the Isuzu. Only drove a 3-speed once, a mid-70s F100 with a loose column shifter and a clutch that acted like a torque converter.

british_rover

I drove a couple of 3 speed Chevy/GMC pickups at one time or another but I never owned one.

kyfdx

...was a '76 Jeep CJ-5.. Reverse up, with 1st below.. I think all 3-speeds are that configuration, even column-shifters... I really liked the 5-speeds that had that same configuration, with 1st gear below reverse.. I think the early Datsun 5-speeds were that way, also.

Most cars from the '60s came with 3-speed manuals... The 4-speed was a hot-rod set-up for performance cars, mostly...

Heck, the Chevy Powerglide automatic only had 2 speeds back then!!

tallman1

The first stick I drove was my great aunt's 1950 Chev. Three on the column, of course. She drove that until she passed away at 82. That was in the late 70's. That car had all of 76,000 miles when she died.

Except for my first car (used 71 Dodge Charger) and a mini van, the rest have all been manuals. My son is driving my old 95 Accord and the 06 Accord is a 5 speed manual too. It took him awhile to get the hang of it but he loves driving it.

It sure is getting tougher to find manuals though. Even harder to find them in the higher trim levels. I hate to think how tough it is going to be when I'm ready for another car.

studbutter

We have a 5-speed in our '99 Volvo, but we counter it with the AOD in my '84 Crown Vic. Does it temper anything to have the 5-speed on my motorcycle?

I learned to drive in a 1969 Ford F-250 with a 4-speed that had a "granny" 1st, so for anything outside a hayfield, it was a 3-speed. "My" first car was a 1960 Ford F-100 that had the classic 3-speed on the column. When I'd park, I used to put the lever up into reverse so it looked like I was putting it into "park."

alltorque

Hey we have two cars and 13 gears - a 6-spd manual and a 7-spd CVT...........does that count ?

shipo

Does the CVT have a clutch pedal? :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

andys120

7-spd CVT

Actually it's a 7-step CVT, the actual number of "speeds" is infinite. Yours may be set up so that you can manually select 7 speeds but left on it's own it will select from that infinite number.

british_rover

For someone with an 18 Speed peterbuilt or mack truck to chime in.

cdnpinhead

I tried.

My single-axle (as in drive axle) KW had a Roadranger RT9509 -- that'd be a 9-speed without overdrive (RTO9509). The hot ticket back then was the 13-speed, but I didn't have one. I did learn on a 5 & 4 logging truck though, so that'd be 20 (for those who can't multiply).

That's how I got to the 17 in my previous post.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and posit that there aren't a lot of Class 8 truck drivers posting here. There have been a couple, but I can't remember which boards they inhabit.

spoom

....but that's on 5 motorcycles :P
sorry, couldn't resist
¿

explorerx4

good one! i have 13 gears or 14, depending which vehicles are in the garage. either way, zero carbs. all fuelies.

stickguy

My first (and 2nd, and 3rd) stick cars were all 3 speeds on the floor (disclaimer: my very first car of my own was a '67 Camaro 6 cyl with a powerglide. Had it a few months, and couldn't stand not having a stick, so I sold it. This was in HS< and in almost 30 years, I have not had another AT of my own).

The best was my Hornet. It had 3 on the floor, but was originally on the tree (precious owner converted it). Don't know what they did with the linkage, but when I shifted, a collar on the column rotated!

We also had 2 manuals for about 9 years (me and my wife). That lasted until child #2, and minivan # 1). She can still drive one, but very rarely touches my car (probably been about 3 years now). I should let her do it now and then, just for practice.

My son starts driving this summer. I plan to get a 3rd car, something older with a stick to teach him on. THe Wife can practice on that one too.

Not sure if I will ever get her back in one (in the distant future when the kids are out of the house, and we don't need an Odyssey anymore). But, my Mom, at 75, still drives one, and even talks about getting a Mini for herself!

iluvmysephia1

do you still own a Scion tC? Still liking it?

Fo whatever reason a lot of people in Tucson, Arizona love Scion tC's. I even see the kind that Scion was rumoured to be holding back from buyers, the 2007 Scion Spec tC. I see the Spec tC's being driven there. It must be a good demographic match for Tucsonians.

stickguy

No, I kept the tC for about 1.5 years, and traded it in on an Accord EX-L 4 cyl 5 speed sedan. The kids kept growing, and the 2 door just wasn't working. The Accord drives just as nice (better engine clutch and shifter, has nice handling, and is way more comfy, especially with all 4 of us in the car.

iluvmysephia1

and wondering if you still liked your tC. I see them all over Tucson.

Sounds like you made a good choice for you and your family.

I researched the Scion tC for a long time and still like the car. I am now looking into getting a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, 5-speed and optional Sun and Sound Package. It has a 9-speaker, 650-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo with 6-CD changer and a power sunroof. I think it would be a great choice for my wife and I to head into the southern Arizona summer with. I have a salesman hot on to finding me the right color and options and now I'm just waiting for them to come in to the Sierra Vista dealer.

Oh, and to keep track with this thread, I'm getting a 5-speed manual-trannied '08 Lancer.

Good for you stick for getting a stick for your latest ride.
What town or region are you in anyway?

stickguy

the Lancer sounds nice. I read a road test recently and it sounded impressive.

I'm in NJ, down near Philadelphia. I don't commute through Phila, and my 5-10 minutes a day stuck in traffic isn't a big deal.

stickguy

Actually, driving in town is IMO actually better suited to a stick. Only on the highway (if you get stuck in traffic every day) can I really see the AT being preferable.

In the city, I prefer the stick since I can keep it in the gear I need, anticipating a hole shot in traffic, etc. Drives me nuts when an AT always tries to shift up right away, then doesn't want to downshift when you need it. Might be the difference between wearing a crown vic in your side!

I used to have lots of fun ripping up the avenues in NY in my Colt (late at night, of course) trying to time the lights.

timothyaw

but I am a one household with THREE manuals. Two five speeds and one six speed. 16 speeds in my house

PF_Flyer

Same here! 16 forward gears! And three reverse :P

lilengineerboy

As long as we are talking about things that don't count, my Cannondale Dura Ace road bike has 2 in the front and 9 in the back, and my mountain bikes (3, one legacy Cannondale dual suspension, a cheeseball hard tail, and a reasonably competitive full suspension) have 3 in the front and 9 in the back.
Along the same lines, everything (including the cars)has front and rear disc brakes except the road bike.

habitat1

My wife and I were at our daughters' schools annual fundraiser on Saturday and were made an offer that will be tough to turn down - a Cayenne at the "employee" pricing. A fellow father is a lobbyist/consultant for Porsche. His daughter was on the 3rd grade girls basketball team I coached that went undefeated this season. He now considers me "family". That works out to very healthy discount to MSRP

Friday's WSJ included an insert on the new Cayenne. With the base V6 now bumped to 290 horsepower, the 6-speed manual would be perfect for my wife, as long as she can give up playing chauffer to all of our kids friends via our 7 passengger MDX. We'll see.

P.S. Since we are so far off topic, I must brag that my girls pulled off a 3 pass "Give and Go" play the last game of the season - with the lay-up made by a 7 year old second grader that we snuck on the team. :surprise:

goodegg

I wouldn't say a stick is better than an auto in the heavy stop and crawl, but it isn't all that bad. Just bought an 06 4 cyl. Frontier with a stick (had only 2800 miles on it) for those weekend hauling needs. Haven't owned a stick in years. Like riding a bike tho. Nissan makes a nice 4 cyl.

Got in some gnarly Northern Va. creep the other day. Left it in second gear almost the entire time and just hit the clutch when needed. Clutch-dicap wasn't that overbearing. Kinda fun. You really drive the vehicle and make the decisions. Save on gas too (altho probably not much when creeping thru Springfield VA at 6 mph)

boaz47

Until I had a long commute in LA I had quite a few manuals. After about 8 years of commuting on the 60,10, 91,55 and any other way i could find to get home I decided a manual just wasn't worth it. I got a automatic. Lift your foot and the car moved forward. Six disk changer and a large Starbucks and my blood pressure went down ten points. But even freeway traffic in LA wasn't impossible with a manual. However once I moved to the mountains I dropped the automatic and got another manual. Then about three years ago one of the three roads leading to our mountain community washed out and everyone had to come home on "my" side of the mountain. For about a month there was a 3 mile back up where the mountain road split heaving into our sleepy town. The back up started at one of the steepest part of the road and it was move a few feet than stop for at least an hour. Thank goodness they got the road fixed because nothing can be harder on a manual than a steep upgrade where you can only move in one gear for a few feet and then stop. It is way too hard on the clutch plate and your left leg. I almost considered driving the Big SUV just because it was so much easier to drive in those conditions. But the road has been repaired and I have sold the SUV instead. Plus I no longer commute off of the mountain. But if I had a long commute again? A manual just doesn't offer enough to make it worth the effort in heavy stop and go traffic. Even if you never get out of first gear. Just my opinion.

lilengineerboy

Boaz,
If I had to the the 405 or the 5 every day, even I would consider an automatic (or moving). For a little while I was driving highway 1 from about LAX up to Ventura a couple of times a week. I found that dropped my blood pressure a couple of points over slogging the 405 to the 101.
I do like how you underlined the opinion statement, sorry if we got to militant for a while there :P

boaz47

No problem. Everything is from our own perceptions. I used to avoid the 101, where it was called the Hollywood freeway, like the plague. The 405 was only if I couldn't find another way to get where I was going. But even in City driving I might consider a stick in LA but never in San Francisco. Nippon is closer than me so maybe he has developed a method for the hills. Downtown San Diego is no piece of cake for a manual either.

I understand people have different opinions. Even in such things as Binocular forums your can make blanket assumptions. Some will insist that Porro Prism Binoculars are far better for looking a the night sky and three posts later someone will tell you how they simply love their Roof Prism Binoculars. Just the nature of people.

nippononly

For me it just isn't that big a deal, I dunno. I can appreciate how it could be for others.

Funny story: I was on Gough headed up over the hill from the marina yesterday, and boy does that hill get steep near the top. The lights are timed but everyone always goes up and over so slow that some folks inevitably get stranded just below the crest. Anyway, big ol' SUV was waiting at the light and imagine the driver's surprise when she let off the gas as the light turned green and rolled straight back into the car behind her with a gentle tinkle of breaking headlights! Gee, when you let up off the gas, isn't the car supposed to creep forward?! :-P

Me, on hills that steep, I do employ the hand brake for take-offs from a dead stop, but the steepest hills in the City don't bug me or anything, and I have driven all over that town in a manual for years and years without ever replacing a clutch. My latest car is light as a feather, real easy to get moving from a stop even when the nose is practically pointed straight at the sky.

Oh yeah, and as for traffic, one thing I look for when I buy a car is gentle, well-modulated throttle tip-in. With a gentle throttle, you can move most cars like 2 mph with first gear fully engaged, which is what I generally do. Easier on the clutch, and the only thing to remember is no sudden throttle inputs. Works well. This is even easier to find now that most cars have gone to electronic throttle control.

lilengineerboy

When I was living in the Bay Area, or I guess this was immediately before I had moved up there, as I was bumming a ride back from San Jose to the central coast from my dad who had a conference in SF. My dad did his thing, I took BART up and met my mom and sister and we wandered around until my dad was done.
Long story slightly shorter...I asked if he wanted me to drive as I know most of the escape routes out of the city (280 baby) and he says no, I can just navigate. So of course we get caught on a hill going from the trolly stop over to 280.
I suggested the parking brake method to get him going again...he said he was fine and went to take off. Burning clutch/burning tires/burning clutch, light red again. Opts for the parking brake method and we get smartly underway on the next attempt. The only downside is the car REEKS OF CLUTCH for the next 350 miles home.
In fairness, my dad had driven up 350 miles that morning and was driving the 350 miles back that night, and on subsequent trips to the city, never had that issue again, even parking on the street by Coit Tower.
Oh and the car has 140k and is still on that same clutch.

nippononly

Oh man, you had me ROLLING with "Burning clutch/burning tires/burning clutch, light red again."!!! :-)

Which reminds me to add one thing: I would never EVER buy a car with a foot-operated parking brake, at least not as long as I still plan on driving regularly in San Francisco. But with a hand-operated brake, it is no problem at all.

PF_Flyer

I can understand that for some folks it would be a bother to have to operate a clutch in a lot of stop and go traffic, especially under hilly conditions. Really, after about a year or so, the operation of a manual transmission pretty much became automatic for me. And I've observed the same with my 18 year old who has no fear of finding herself at a backed up red light on a fairly steep slope.

It's just "operating the vehicle" to us. When I was teaching her to drive, I took her to a steep side street and had her stop the car. I got out and stoodnear therear of the car holding a broom handle vertically about a foot behind the rear bumper and told her to pull away. She protested it was going to roll back and hit it, but I made her do it anyway. :P It rolled back about 6-8". Sure FELT like a lot more, but that was about the extent of it. So she's never trying to hold the car in place on a hill with the clutch.

Bringing up the Bay area makes me want to revisit Lombard Street. Back in'67 on vacation we drove down it in a '66 Newport!

shipo

It's been years since I've driven Lombard Street with a manual transmission, however, IIRC, it's very-very easy with a stick. Why? He-he, traffic flow is downhill only. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nippononly

Lombard isn't very steep anyway, just very very curvy. :-)

rockylee

Is that in San Fransisco, pf_flyer ?

Looks pretty cool as I've never seen anything like it before.

Rocky

lilengineerboy

Lombard Street is in SF. Its kind of a touristy thing now, there are usually faster ways to get somewhere than that street.

tallman1

Billed as the "Crookedest Street in the World." Or it used to be anyway.

iluvmysephia1

Ghirardelli's, the Golden Gate Bridge are all some of the "must-see's" in beautiful San Francisco, CA.

Oh, a ride on the trolley should be added to the list.

michaellno

Do you mean the cable car, or the trolley?

Last time I had business in SF, I stayed at the Westin St. Francis and the building I was working in was futher east on Market Street, so I took the trolley each morning.

For those of you who may not know, the city of SF imported a number of trolley cars from other cities from here in the US as well as overseas, and incorporated them into their system.

Very cool riding in an Italian trolley car.

PF_Flyer

I only brought up Lombard street and SF as an interesting place to find yourself with a manual transmission.Didn't intend it to be a gateway to trolley discussion

Swinging back to the topic... could a manufacturer carve out a niche for themsleves by making more manuals available and catering to the third-pedal crowd?

bumpy

could a manufacturer carve out a niche for themsleves by making more manuals available and catering to the third-pedal crowd?

Mazda seems to be doing that already. They offer manuals on their entire lineup except on the rebadged Fords.

PF_Flyer

Wasn't really thinking of offering manuals across modellines. More like could a manufacturer survie making nothing but a limited line of manuals and doing it very well

boaz47

A manufacturer that only made manuals would be eliminating a large segment of the consumer market, better than 90 percent, but they could be successful if everyone else dropped the manual option from this lineup. If you only make manuals but everyone else makes both manuals and automatics you would need more than a transmission to bring people in. But if you were the only game in town you might do OK.

lilengineerboy

Lotus? I think that is the only manufacturer that doesn't have an auto, and that might change.