2017 Volvo S60 Lease Deals and Prices

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

enjoyed the test drive didnt get too far into negotiating/figures quite yet, wanted to see if June numbers were up before engaging further.

Not yet.

kyfdx

swimfree said:

Hi everyone, first post here. 

Can anyone tell me the lease lease numbers or the following for CT and/or MA...
- 2017 S60 Dynamic AWD
- 2017 S60 Inscription AWD

Both 36k/10mi terms. 

I am also looking for reccomendations on the best dealer to deal with in these areas (CT and Mass) for sales. 

Thanks!

Dynamic: .00001 MF and 49% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $2750 Lease Bonus
Inscription: .00003 MF and 50% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus

kyfdx

taxi_driver said:

Looking for RV/MF and current incentives on 24mo with 12 + 15k/yr in CA (Bay Area or SoCal)

2017 Dynamic FWD
2017 Inscription FWD
2017 Inscription Platinum FWD

Thanks!

.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $2750 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 51%/49% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus

taxi_driver

kyfdx said:

taxi_driver said:

Looking for RV/MF and current incentives on 24mo with 12 + 15k/yr in CA (Bay Area or SoCal)

2017 Dynamic FWD
2017 Inscription FWD
2017 Inscription Platinum FWD

Thanks!

.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $2750 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 51%/49% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus

thanks! adjustments for 36mo, same mileage?

kyfdx

taxi_driver said:

kyfdx said:

taxi_driver said:

Looking for RV/MF and current incentives on 24mo with 12 + 15k/yr in CA (Bay Area or SoCal)

2017 Dynamic FWD
2017 Inscription FWD
2017 Inscription Platinum FWD

Thanks!

.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $2750 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 53%/51% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus
.00001 MF and 51%/49% residual. $1500 Volvo Allowance + $4050 Lease Bonus

thanks! adjustments for 36mo, same mileage?

Subtract
5%
5%
4%

taxi_driver

likely stupid questions..

are both the bonus + allowance numbers I can expect to further negotiate off advertised price? no wrong answer, don't have enough info from dealer side other than seeing 10-11% off MSRP off the bat. not sure how much room is left to press for

if not, how and when are they applied? is A-Plan pricing something to ask for?

waterisgood

Hi, whats the MF/RV for 36 months/7500 miles, S60 Dynamic FWD and S60 Inscription FWD, as well as any incentives and rebates for Miami-Dade, FL and Broward County, FL? Thanks!

kyfdx

taxi_driver said:

likely stupid questions..

are both the bonus + allowance numbers I can expect to further negotiate off advertised price? no wrong answer, don't have enough info from dealer side other than seeing 10-11% off MSRP off the bat. not sure how much room is left to press for

if not, how and when are they applied? is A-Plan pricing something to ask for?

They've probably included the incentives in any advertised price (not the lease bonus, though, assuming the ad price is for a purchase). Do you qualify for A-Plan?

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

likely stupid questions..

are both the bonus + allowance numbers I can expect to further negotiate off advertised price? no wrong answer, don't have enough info from dealer side other than seeing 10-11% off MSRP off the bat. not sure how much room is left to press for

if not, how and when are they applied? is A-Plan pricing something to ask for?

The incentives should be applied after you've negotiated your best price.

I suspect you can do better than A-Plan pricing, on your own.

Michaell

waterisgood said:

Hi, whats the MF/RV for 36 months/7500 miles, S60 Dynamic FWD and S60 Inscription FWD, as well as any incentives and rebates for Miami-Dade, FL and Broward County, FL? Thanks!

.00001 and 50% for both trims

$1500 Volvo allowance for both
$2750 lease bonus for DYN
$4050 lease bonus for INSC

kyfdx

waterisgood said:

Hi, whats the MF/RV for 36 months/7500 miles, S60 Dynamic FWD and S60 Inscription FWD, as well as any incentives and rebates for Miami-Dade, FL and Broward County, FL? Thanks!

.00001 MF and 50% residual for either model
$1500 Volvo Allowance + $2750/$4050 lease cash on Dyn/Inscr

taxi_driver

Michaell said:

taxi_driver said:

likely stupid questions..

are both the bonus + allowance numbers I can expect to further negotiate off advertised price? no wrong answer, don't have enough info from dealer side other than seeing 10-11% off MSRP off the bat. not sure how much room is left to press for

if not, how and when are they applied? is A-Plan pricing something to ask for?

The incentives should be applied after you've negotiated your best price.

I suspect you can do better than A-Plan pricing, on your own.

Thanks. I'm narrowing it down to a few different builds at socal dealers and will see how I fare on negotiating before going in.

If I don't land in Tier 1 credit, how much could they mark up the MF going a notch down?

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

Michaell said:

taxi_driver said:

likely stupid questions..

are both the bonus + allowance numbers I can expect to further negotiate off advertised price? no wrong answer, don't have enough info from dealer side other than seeing 10-11% off MSRP off the bat. not sure how much room is left to press for

if not, how and when are they applied? is A-Plan pricing something to ask for?

The incentives should be applied after you've negotiated your best price.

I suspect you can do better than A-Plan pricing, on your own.

Thanks. I'm narrowing it down to a few different builds at socal dealers and will see how I fare on negotiating before going in.

If I don't land in Tier 1 credit, how much could they mark up the MF going a notch down?

We don't have any information on MF mark ups based on credit score.

swimfree

Is this crazy?

S60 Dyanmic AWD 
MSRP: 38,565
-1500 Volvo allowance
-2000 lease bonus
-1291 Discount
$33,774 Lease price

Fees: 
389 Doc fee
132.50 Reg Fee
995 Bank Fee
Cap cost: 32,769
Sale price: 33,774 (Lease)
Residual: 49%
Money factor: .00001

36 Months and 10k Miles:
$410/Month with $3080 down

Same car was offered last month for $329/$0 down. 

kyfdx

swimfree said:

Is this crazy?

S60 Dyanmic AWD 
MSRP: 38,565
-1500 Volvo allowance
-2000 lease bonus
-1291 Discount
$33,774 Lease price

Fees: 
389 Doc fee
132.50 Reg Fee
995 Bank Fee
Cap cost: 32,769
Sale price: 33,774 (Lease)
Residual: 49%
Money factor: .00001

36 Months and 10k Miles:
$410/Month with $3080 down

Same car was offered last month for $329/$0 down. 

That's not much of a dealer discount. Acquisition fee is marked up from $695 base.

The offer was from this dealer, last month? If so, why didn't you take it?

miamifiremedic

Good morning, Can someone please tell me MF and RV for the 2017 Volvo S60 inscription in Miami, Florida 33186 please?

The dealer quoted us this :"$359 not including taxes. That is for 12k per year, no money down, just your inceptions, which is your first payment and all fees, including all DMV fees is $2,789."

Inception fees seem kinda steep. Is he including allowances and incentives?
I will email him now and see what the MSRP is and sale price. I'm doing it through a Costco dealership.

Thank you

miamifiremedic

Oh and Which is taxable incentive ? Are rebates taxable? I am trying to get the math right so there are no surprises. They are also willing to pay the last months ($313) payment for our current lease.

Michaell

miamifiremedic said:

Good morning, Can someone please tell me MF and RV for the 2017 Volvo S60 inscription in Miami, Florida 33186 please?

The dealer quoted us this :"$359 not including taxes. That is for 12k per year, no money down, just your inceptions, which is your first payment and all fees, including all DMV fees is $2,789."

Inception fees seem kinda steep. Is he including allowances and incentives?
I will email him now and see what the MSRP is and sale price. I'm doing it through a Costco dealership.

Thank you

miamifiremedic said:

Oh and Which is taxable incentive ? Are rebates taxable? I am trying to get the math right so there are no surprises. They are also willing to pay the last months ($313) payment for our current lease.

What lease term?

All incentives are taxable, so far as I know.

Ask for the breakdown of the $2789 - I'm sure there is an outrageous dealer doc fee, the acquisition fee, first payment, taxes on the incentives, DMV costs and the first payment.

taxi_driver

Got a few quotes (All 36mo/15k), all before credit was ran. Dealer 1 and 2 were all done over the phone. T5 Dynamic FWD model

Dealer 1/Car Pref #3:
MSRP 40,490
Discount: 9,500
Selling Price 30,990
Drive off 825.67
MF .00001
Payment - 364.47 + Tax/399 tax incl

Numbers on 24mo/15k were 452/mo not incl tax so closer to 500. Unsure of drive-off amount (likely min) here though total lease cost is less than 36mo thus far. Semi-attractive

Dealer 2/Car Pref #1:
MSRP 41,290.00
Discount. 8,700.00
Selling Price.  32,590.00
Drive off 790.34
MF .00031 (obviously being marked up though haven't pointed out/made known to the salesperson)
Payment - 457.59 tax incl

Did not get 24mo figures. In a perfect world I'd get this at 399 incl tax.

Dealer 3/Car Pref #2:
MSRP 42,505
Discount 8,664
Selling Price 33,841.00
Drive off 843.85
MF - Missing from sheet; going to ask tmrw AM though my math leads me to think it's base or slightly marked up
Payment - 464.21

No 24mo numbers

I'm debating if it's worth paying higher drive-off inclusive of acquisition fee to bring my payment down a bit. Also may want to spend less in total lease costs by going 24mo. Can't discern if its worth having a longer term/smaller payments.

If dealer #2 will match the discount dealer #1 is offering and maintain that MF, that payment incl tax I get is 399. Even knowing it was marked up, I'm a little okay with it being it's not a terribly large margin and I'd get the car I want. Salesperson was adamant this was as far as they could come though I have not met face-to-face.

Appreciate any comments or thoughts on the above.

miamifiremedic

36 months / 12k miles

kyfdx

miamifiremedic said:

36 months / 12k miles

The 24 month lease residual is only 5% higher. It will be substantially more expensive per month. Comparing total cost to a 36 month lease is useless, as you only get the car for 24 months.

Paying more money upfront to get a lower payment is just fooling yourself. The average monthly outlay remains the same. The finance charges are virtually zero on this model.

taxi_driver

kyfdx said:

miamifiremedic said:

36 months / 12k miles

The 24 month lease residual is only 5% higher. It will be substantially more expensive per month. Comparing total cost to a 36 month lease is useless, as you only get the car for 24 months.

Paying more money upfront to get a lower payment is just fooling yourself. The average monthly outlay remains the same. The finance charges are virtually zero on this model.

I just assumed if I paid the acquisition fee in my drive-off I'd get a little closer to where I want to be on the car I really want at Dealer #2.

taxi_driver

Now have Dealer 3 car at 442/mo incl tax.

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

Now have Dealer 3 car at 442/mo incl tax.

how much due at signing?

taxi_driver

843

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

843

Go back to the first two dealers and see if they'll drop their price (and payment). Eventually, you'll reach bottom.

taxi_driver

Dealer 2 isn't wavering after exchanging emails/calls, not willing to match the 9500 discount or move on the MF. Offered to have my credit ran with him before driving down to close if he would do so, still no dice. It was set as my most preferred only for being the middle of MSRP's of the bunch.

Given the below from Dealer 3 (closest to me), I'm getting the priciest car/best optioned than my first choice paying a little less monthly. One strike against myself was falling into Tier 2 after having credit ran.

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @46%

The only area I could improve on is MF however they did comply to meet me at the 9500 so were at the point of being off by about $20/mo somewhere. I'm not sure where they'd be making money on this deal. If they can come down another 20 great, if not maybe splitting the difference is something I could agree to at $430/mo.

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

Dealer 2 isn't wavering after exchanging emails/calls, not willing to match the 9500 discount or move on the MF. Offered to have my credit ran with him before driving down to close if he would do so, still no dice. It was set as my most preferred only for being the middle of MSRP's of the bunch.

Given the below from Dealer 3 (closest to me), I'm getting the priciest car/best optioned than my first choice paying a little less monthly. One strike against myself was falling into Tier 2 after having credit ran.

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @46%

The only area I could improve on is MF however they did comply to meet me at the 9500 so were at the point of being off by about $20/mo somewhere. I'm not sure where they'd be making money on this deal. If they can come down another 20 great, if not maybe splitting the difference is something I could agree to at $430/mo.

Looks like you are pretty close to the bottom, payment wise.

dawkins20

Hi. I know this is the 2017 thread but any info on programs for the 2016 s60 Polestar?  New car still, looking for 36/12 or 15 in NJ/PA market.  I think there is 4k dealer cash , and additional lease allowances?

taxi_driver

Michaell said:

taxi_driver said:

Dealer 2 isn't wavering after exchanging emails/calls, not willing to match the 9500 discount or move on the MF. Offered to have my credit ran with him before driving down to close if he would do so, still no dice. It was set as my most preferred only for being the middle of MSRP's of the bunch.

Given the below from Dealer 3 (closest to me), I'm getting the priciest car/best optioned than my first choice paying a little less monthly. One strike against myself was falling into Tier 2 after having credit ran.

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @46%

The only area I could improve on is MF however they did comply to meet me at the 9500 so were at the point of being off by about $20/mo somewhere. I'm not sure where they'd be making money on this deal. If they can come down another 20 great, if not maybe splitting the difference is something I could agree to at $430/mo.

Looks like you are pretty close to the bottom, payment wise.

Anything left to pry on at this point?

Michaell

dawkins20 said:

Hi. I know this is the 2017 thread but any info on programs for the 2016 s60 Polestar?  New car still, looking for 36/12 or 15 in NJ/PA market.  I think there is 4k dealer cash , and additional lease allowances?

We don't have any 2016 lease numbers. 

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

Dealer 2 isn't wavering after exchanging emails/calls, not willing to match the 9500 discount or move on the MF. Offered to have my credit ran with him before driving down to close if he would do so, still no dice. It was set as my most preferred only for being the middle of MSRP's of the bunch.

Given the below from Dealer 3 (closest to me), I'm getting the priciest car/best optioned than my first choice paying a little less monthly. One strike against myself was falling into Tier 2 after having credit ran.

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @46%

The only area I could improve on is MF however they did comply to meet me at the 9500 so were at the point of being off by about $20/mo somewhere. I'm not sure where they'd be making money on this deal. If they can come down another 20 great, if not maybe splitting the difference is something I could agree to at $430/mo.

Looks like you are pretty close to the bottom, payment wise.

Anything left to pry on at this point?

Selling price is your only lever available.  

taxi_driver

Thanks Michaell. I spoke with a Edmunds Advisor before doing a lot of this (Blake) I'm in pure awe of what you guys do here.

swimfree

kyfdx said:

Is this crazy?

S60 Dyanmic AWD 
MSRP: 38,565
-1500 Volvo allowance
-2000 lease bonus
-1291 Discount
$33,774 Lease price

Fees: 
389 Doc fee
132.50 Reg Fee
995 Bank Fee
Cap cost: 32,769
Sale price: 33,774 (Lease)
Residual: 49%
Money factor: .00001

36 Months and 10k Miles:
$410/Month with $3080 down

Same car was offered last month for $329/$0 down. 

That's not much of a dealer discount. Acquisition fee is marked up from $695 base.

The offer was from this dealer, last month? If so, why didn't you take it?

I checked out the car the afternoon of the last day of the month- coincidentally. It was the first dealer I checked out so I didn't want to make a move before investigating other dealers. They also didn't really have a vehicle that was close to my desired specs. 

taxi_driver

I closed mine today at 440/mo incl tax so I'm pretty happy with how I fared.

swimfree

taxi_driver said:

I closed mine today at 440/mo incl tax so I'm pretty happy with how I fared.

What are the details of your lease? 

taxi_driver

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount, weren't budging from this)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @ 46% (I was off by 8 in my post)

We were back and forth over $20 bucks in monthly adjustment. I resisted to their first impulse on taxing me on Tier 2 credit, at 468. Irregardless, I feel pretty good how this went down and am happy with the car.

For what it's worth I was very picky on builds/options, the sticker on mine is on the higher side for not being AWD. My only gripe was not getting the Harmon Kardon Premium sound but my car came with navigation and everything else. I lucked out that the dealer closest to me had it on their lot.

Michaell

taxi_driver said:

42,505 - MSRP
33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount, weren't budging from this)
33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)
633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)
843 due at signing
448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @ 46% (I was off by 8 in my post)

We were back and forth over $20 bucks in monthly adjustment. I resisted to their first impulse on taxing me on Tier 2 credit, at 468. Irregardless, I feel pretty good how this went down and am happy with the car.

For what it's worth I was very picky on builds/options, the sticker on mine is on the higher side for not being AWD. My only gripe was not getting the Harmon Kardon Premium sound but my car came with navigation and everything else. I lucked out that the dealer closest to me had it on their lot.

Congrats, and thanks for sharing your deal details with us.

swimfree

taxi_driver said:

42,505 - MSRP

33,005 - Sales Price (9500 Discount, weren't budging from this)

33,752 - Adj Cap Cost (incl 695 Acquisition Fee didn't let them mark up to 995, 27.74 cap cost red, 80 doc fee)

633.12 - Rent Charge (at Tier 2 uptick actualizes to 15/mo added on instead of the free money)

843 due at signing

448.08/mo including tax, 36/mo 15k @ 46% (I was off by 8 in my post)



We were back and forth over $20 bucks in monthly adjustment. I resisted to their first impulse on taxing me on Tier 2 credit, at 468. Irregardless, I feel pretty good how this went down and am happy with the car.



For what it's worth I was very picky on builds/options, the sticker on mine is on the higher side for not being AWD. My only gripe was not getting the Harmon Kardon Premium sound but my car came with navigation and everything else. I lucked out that the dealer closest to me had it on their lot.

Looks like a good deal to me. Is this an Inscriptipn or Dynamic? I assume you made this deal in June?

I'm looking to spend around $400, which I think should be doable based on what I've seen. 

Enjoy your new ride! 

taxi_driver

Dynamic, got it this past weekend. Thanks!

You might have to broaden your search or be willing to give up options in some cases if not finding anything locally

miamifiremedic

Hello everyone!
FINALLY! Got the numbers from the dealer on the inception fees for a 2017 Volvo S60 inscription. 12/36 months. Miami, Fl

First payment 384.1

License fee 250..00
MV 2.00
Rental surcharge 60.00
Tire and battery 6.50
Dealer fee 699.00
Bank acq 995.00
Tag agency 20.00
Electronic file 199.95
Tax on ccr 59.70
County tax 9.95
Tax on FL fees 57.93
County tax on FL fees 9.65 Total = 2,753.81

Just to make sure......
What was the RV/MF for this model?

What do you think? LOTS of fluff....going to get the numbers done as soon as I get the RV/MF

miamifiremedic

The dealer does not want to provide the MSRP and discount Costco price over the phone. Its frustrating because I would have to drive over an hour and I am trying not to waste my time.

Michaell

miamifiremedic said:

Hello everyone!
FINALLY! Got the numbers from the dealer on the inception fees for a 2017 Volvo S60 inscription. 12/36 months. Miami, Fl

First payment 384.1

License fee 250..00
MV 2.00
Rental surcharge 60.00
Tire and battery 6.50
Dealer fee 699.00
Bank acq 995.00
Tag agency 20.00
Electronic file 199.95
Tax on ccr 59.70
County tax 9.95
Tax on FL fees 57.93
County tax on FL fees 9.65 Total = 2,753.81

Just to make sure......
What was the RV/MF for this model?

What do you think? LOTS of fluff....going to get the numbers done as soon as I get the RV/MF

.00001 and 48%

Acquisition fee is marked up. Dealer fee is outrageous, typical for Florida.

Roll those two into the payment; everything else is government related and should be paid up front.

Michaell

miamifiremedic said:

The dealer does not want to provide the MSRP and discount Costco price over the phone. Its frustrating because I would have to drive over an hour and I am trying not to waste my time.

Either you make the drive, or you walk. Not sure there is any compromise to be had here.

miamifiremedic

Thank you !! I really appreciate the info. Going to take the drive up tomorrow morning. We will see what they have to offer.

vadimr1

Could you please post the MF/RV for 2017 S60 T5 for 24/10,000? Thank you.

kyfdx

vadimr1 said:

Could you please post the MF/RV for 2017 S60 T5 for 24/10,000? Thank you.

Dynamic, Inscription or Inscription Platinum?
FWD or AWD?

vadimr1

kyfdx said:

vadimr1 said:

Could you please post the MF/RV for 2017 S60 T5 for 24/10,000? Thank you.

Dynamic, Inscription or Inscription Platinum?
FWD or AWD?

Can you do on all? AWD and FWD? As well all 3 trims? Trying to figure out what would be the best deal and which configuration.

Michaell

vadimr1 said:

kyfdx said:

vadimr1 said:

Could you please post the MF/RV for 2017 S60 T5 for 24/10,000? Thank you.

Dynamic, Inscription or Inscription Platinum?
FWD or AWD?

Can you do on all? AWD and FWD? As well all 3 trims? Trying to figure out what would be the best deal and which configuration.

.00001 and 54% - Dyn, Dyn AWD, Insc
.00003 and 54% - Insc AWD
.00001 and 52% - Insc Plat
.00003 and 52% - Insc Plat AWD

$1500 Volvo allowance for all
$2750 lease bonus for Dyn
$4050 lease bonus for the rest

vadimr1

Michaell said:

vadimr1 said:

kyfdx said:

vadimr1 said:

Could you please post the MF/RV for 2017 S60 T5 for 24/10,000? Thank you.

Dynamic, Inscription or Inscription Platinum?
FWD or AWD?

Can you do on all? AWD and FWD? As well all 3 trims? Trying to figure out what would be the best deal and which configuration.

.00001 and 54% - Dyn, Dyn AWD, Insc
.00003 and 54% - Insc AWD
.00001 and 52% - Insc Plat
.00003 and 52% - Insc Plat AWD

$1500 Volvo allowance for all
$2750 lease bonus for Dyn
$4050 lease bonus for the rest

Thank you so much, could you also share the MF and residual for 36/10?