Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette · November 2018

qbrozen said:

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

One of the web people wrote back again, "oh, I'm sorry for the confusion, the person who called you is your salesperson. Is there anything you'd like me to pass along to him?"

"since you asked, you can inform him those 'incorrect prices' are also shown in truecar."

Can’t wait for him to respond that they don’t advertise with truecar, either.

Aaaannd...that's exactly what he said

I think I’d just respond with screenshots of Truecar and the other site and copy the GM if you have their email. Maybe include a “fake news” meme image as well.

stickguy · November 2018

pensfan83 said:
I've seen other BMW loaners with that mileage but as @28firefighter pointed out because those vehicles aren't eligible for incentives, they usually aren't good lease candidates unless you get a sizable discount from sticker, usually close to or over 30% IIRC.

Sounds like a good candidate to buy though, if you want something to be a keeper.

roadburner · November 2018

stickguy said:
here is another mini Ute that is similar color to that X2. Just half the price! Pretty loaded up little buggy.

https://www.royalautogroups.com/vehicle-details/2018-ford-ecosport-titanium-awd-nav-dr-asst-pkg-tech-pkg-panoroof-wagon-419842ffd6eeb04982ba5252321b0bc9

My wife saw one and actually liked the size and overall appearance. After a little research I realized it would be a penalty box- for my wife and I at any rate.

roadburner · November 2018

au1994 said:
So it looks like we’ve arrived at a decision and will have a punch to replace the X6 in the next week or so. First, a little background on the going’s on in au1994 land...

About 2 months ago I was recruited to a new opportunity and now work from home 90% of the time. When I do go to an office, its 10-15 miles away vs the 30 I was driving. We’ve also taken the plunge on a lake house in the north GA mountains, thus the boat purchase a week ago. While we are not lake front, we are using a marina for storage that will not require us to get a tow vehicle. We’re very happy and very excited for the next lake season but will still go up over the fall and winter to hike.

For the longest time we were operating under the line of thought that we needed one large, ‘family’ vehicle in the fleet to get us to and fro and haul sports equipment etc. and were looking at everything from a Pilot to an Ascent with some Outbacks and Highlanders sprinkled in. Basically there wasn’t a midsized SUV that didn’t get a look on line or in person. We eventually looked at the compacts, Forester and CR-V specifically. Very impressed with both.

This weekend we sat back and really took stock of what we’ve got and what we need. We need a hauler, good gas mileage, good (but not cavernous) cargo capacity and a good price. After all the shopping and pricing we did, the answer was already in the garage and at a great price. The X1 is going to remain and move to Mrs. au1994 primarily. Her commute is 8 miles so she won’t be piling on the miles, its sitting at 22k right now. My only regret in getting the X1 is I got fwd instead of awd. My wife is in healthcare and has to be at work in all types of weather. We don’t deal with snow well in the Atlanta area and the mountains where the lake house is can get some snow, so I feel much more comfortable having 1 awd vehicle in the fleet. So...we’ve got a great quote on a Crosstrek Limited. That will become mine and fill the awd gap and leave us with a nice economical choice in the fleet. We briefly toyed with just having 1 car for a while but that just doesn’t work for us for many reasons. Mostly because neither of us has been without a car and the ability to go at any time since we were 16. Some would call it a control issue

I know the Crosstrek is slow, maybe even painfully slow but the value you get from it and any Subaru frankly, is amazing. Plus it will be a good car to pass on to little au1994. How much trouble can he get in with 152 hp on tap??

Headed out of town for a wedding so it will likely be next week before we can close the deal. Thanks for reading. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

Congrats! Just be sure you can live with thw CVT- I couldn't.

28firefighter · November 2018

Congrats, @au1994 - both on the new car, but also the boat and the lake house! Very exciting stuff.

stickguy · November 2018

keeping Georgia’s economy afloat!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

Personally, I take the rational approach to driving. I just assume that every other driver is a recently escaped psychopath who has just completed a car-jacking. I developed this approach during my motorcycle days. Worked for me. No hits, no runs, no errors on two wheels.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

benjaminh said:
Congrats on the Crosstrek!

My friend loves her Crosstrek. She's very very happy with it.

xwesx · November 2018

qbrozen said:
Great discount on this one for starters. I showed it to the wife to check on her reaction to the color. she said "YIKES!" But then agreed if we could get a good price on it....

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?sourceContext=untrackedWithinSite_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2623&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=08510&distance=500&searchChanged=true&lostFilters=Trims&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=MILEAGE&sortDirection=DESC#listing=201539831

Funny; I think it's color is quite pretty, and you won't lose it in a parking lot!

jpp75 · November 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

My friend loves her Crosstrek. She's very very happy with it.

We have a few people at work who have them and another friend of mine does as well, they all love them.

xwesx · November 2018

nyccarguy said:
Hey guys I just wanted to give everybody a quick update on my Pilot vs Rogue Sport saga. Called All State (my insurance company). Spoke to the claims person and then gave a statement to a claims investigator who ultimately decides who is at fault and at what percentage. He pulled up a google map of the intersection.

I explained what happened. He said that according to CT law, that even though there IS room, technically I’m supposed to wait for the other vehicle to turn. He also said that CT law states that a vehicle making a right turn must be as far to the right as possible (without being on a shoulder or curb) when making a right turn (the other driver was not far). Since he was in front of me, he had the right of way. He’ll take a look at the damage to the other vehicle and take a statement from the other driver, but more than likely I’ll be somewhere between 50 - 70% responsible for the damages. Their insurance will be responsible for the rest.

Besides my perfectly unblemished insurance record, I’ll also have to deal with the fact that my Pilot will most likely have a “dirty” car fax attached to it.

Didn't you say that this guy had been sitting there a while, was on the left side of the lane, and did not have a turn signal on? What does the insurance company think you were supposed to do - go knock on his window to find out what the eff he wanted to do?

I had an interesting one this morning (well, nearly so). I was pulling up to a 4-way stop, planning to turn left. There is a vehicle approaching the intersection from all three other directions as well, all somewhat behind me. I stop, look to the right, start to go, look left toward my intended turn, and realize that the guy approaching from that way is clearly NOT intending to stop. I stop cold, guy passes me with about two inches from the front of my rig, then has the audacity to honk at me! LOL I just shook my head and said, "seriously?"

Once he passed by, I continued on my turn.... except that the guy who was opposite me, who planned to turn right (same lane as I was taking), reached the intersection while all that was going down, and then decides that he now has ROW (I guess since he was right of the guy who blew the sign?), and starts making his turn as I'm making my left. Annoyed at this point, I just kept turning, laid on the horn, and cut him off.

kyfdx · November 2018

jpp5862 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

My friend loves her Crosstrek. She's very very happy with it.
We have a few people at work who have them and another friend of mine does as well, they all love them.

Subaru owners seem to be a loyal lot. Guess I failed that test. Was not fond of the one I had.

ab348 · November 2018

kyfdx said:

Subaru owners seem to be a loyal lot. Guess I failed that test. Was not fond of the one I had.

Yeah, it seems like you are either one of the loyalists, or you don't care for them at all. Not much middle ground.

Sort of related, I found this online yesterday and was a bit surprised with some of the results:

xwesx · November 2018

au1994 said:
So it looks like we’ve arrived at a decision and will have a punch to replace the X6 in the next week or so. First, a little background on the going’s on in au1994 land...

I know the Crosstrek is slow, maybe even painfully slow but the value you get from it and any Subaru frankly, is amazing. Plus it will be a good car to pass on to little au1994. How much trouble can he get in with 152 hp on tap??

Headed out of town for a wedding so it will likely be next week before we can close the deal. Thanks for reading. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

Great choice, au! My first recommendation for modding this car is to get a Class III hitch for it and a cargo tray! This will bump your cargo area dramatically for those runs to the lake house, and you will not take any fuel economy penalty for doing so.

Cargo space in the Crosstrek is pretty limited when you have the rear seats filled with passengers, but the above solution will make short work of that!

xwesx · November 2018

au1994 said:
thanks! A new set of tires is definitely in the offing. Since new one of my complaints has been the noise level with the X1 so we are going to replace the OEM Pirelli Cintuato (sp?) early next year. As noted it only has 22k miles so the tread is fine but the noise level is just unacceptable at any price point. We’ll look at all seasons and try to split the difference between the best rated for weather and quietness.

Take a look at the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady tire. All-season and long-lasting but also rated with the mountain-and-snowflake symbol for winter tires.

stickguy · November 2018

that chart might seem shocking, but really proves how good all cars are now, and how little variation there is among brands.

technically the top to bottom is double the problems! Oh My! But looking at it, that means on average the best make has 1 problem per car, the worst is 2. Ignoring the key question of how they define a problem (and treating a loose knob and a bad transmission most likely as equal), that is not enough of a difference to get me to not buy what I like and want to drive!

28firefighter · November 2018

I love Subaru, truly, and we almost bought a Forester XT - they couldn't guarantee pricing though on an order. Now they're doing away with the turbo engines except in the WRX, which stinks.

stickguy · November 2018

the Ascent has a turbo too. Just got rid of it in the Forester. Must have been a pretty low take rate.

henryn · November 2018

roadburner said:

My wife saw one and actually liked the size and overall appearance. After a little research I realized it would be a penalty box- for my wife and I at any rate.

I first saw an ecosport about 4 or 5 months ago, while I was shopping for my new F150. I was sitting around on the sales floor, waiting on some paperwork, and there was a brand new ecosport sitting right next to me. So naturally, I checked it out. I was rather surprised at how roomy it felt sitting in the driver's seat, quite a bit better than the last Escape I tried to sit in.

Which interested me enough to go online and read a bit. Wherein the phrase "penalty box" really took on new meaning. This is from Edmunds review of the ecosport, I mean, seriously, 10.4 seconds 0-60 with the optional bigger engine??? Sheesh!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Unless the three-cylinder engine's turbochargers are spooled up and ready for action, it requires a Herculean effort to bring the EcoSport to highway speeds. In Edmunds testing, it required 11.4 seconds to reach 60 mph from a stop, one of the most leisurely paces in this segment. Selecting the 2.0-liter/AWD combo shaves a full second off the 0-60 mph time.

nyccarguy · November 2018

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:
Hey guys I just wanted to give everybody a quick update on my Pilot vs Rogue Sport saga. Called All State (my insurance company). Spoke to the claims person and then gave a statement to a claims investigator who ultimately decides who is at fault and at what percentage. He pulled up a google map of the intersection.

I explained what happened. He said that according to CT law, that even though there IS room, technically I’m supposed to wait for the other vehicle to turn. He also said that CT law states that a vehicle making a right turn must be as far to the right as possible (without being on a shoulder or curb) when making a right turn (the other driver was not far). Since he was in front of me, he had the right of way. He’ll take a look at the damage to the other vehicle and take a statement from the other driver, but more than likely I’ll be somewhere between 50 - 70% responsible for the damages. Their insurance will be responsible for the rest.

Besides my perfectly unblemished insurance record, I’ll also have to deal with the fact that my Pilot will most likely have a “dirty” car fax attached to it.
Didn't you say that this guy had been sitting there a while, was on the left side of the lane, and did not have a turn signal on? What does the insurance company think you were supposed to do - go knock on his window to find out what the eff he wanted to do?

I had an interesting one this morning (well, nearly so). I was pulling up to a 4-way stop, planning to turn left. There is a vehicle approaching the intersection from all three other directions as well, all somewhat behind me. I stop, look to the right, start to go, look left toward my intended turn, and realize that the guy approaching from that way is clearly NOT intending to stop. I stop cold, guy passes me with about two inches from the front of my rig, then has the audacity to honk at me! LOL I just shook my head and said, "seriously?"

Once he passed by, I continued on my turn.... except that the guy who was opposite me, who planned to turn right (same lane as I was taking), reached the intersection while all that was going down, and then decides that he now has ROW (I guess since he was right of the guy who blew the sign?), and starts making his turn as I'm making my left. Annoyed at this point, I just kept turning, laid on the horn, and cut him off.

Yes. He had been sitting there long enough for an F150 to pass him and for me to come up 1/4 way through before he decided to make a right. That might have very well been his intention the entire time. IF he would have had his right blinker on, this NEVER would have happened in the 1st place. Without video evidence of the F150 making the right, it doesn't exist. Without video evidence of him not having the blinker on and him sitting towards the middle of the road, the insurance company can ONLY go by the accounts that we humans provide as well as the physical evidence (vehicle damage, maps that show the width of the roadway), and the law of the State of Connecticut.

4 way stop sign intersections are a tough one. I'll ALWAYS let the other 3 cars go even if I was there 1st.

corvette · November 2018

That reliability chart has really flattened over the years. There used to be a much larger delta between best and worst. I’m not sure how much better the best have gotten, but I know the worst are much less worse.

xwesx · November 2018

nyccarguy said:

Yes. He had been sitting there long enough for an F150 to pass him and for me to come up 1/4 way through before he decided to make a right. That might have very well been his intention the entire time. IF he would have had his right blinker on, this NEVER would have happened in the 1st place. Without video evidence of the F150 making the right, it doesn't exist. Without video evidence of him not having the blinker on and him sitting towards the middle of the road, the insurance company can ONLY go by the accounts that we humans provide as well as the physical evidence (vehicle damage, maps that show the width of the roadway), and the law of the State of Connecticut.

Yeah, very true. All the more support for the dashcam argument.

As the winter progresses and no movement on the Q7, I'm thinking more and more that I am just going to keep it a while. I plan to get a dashcam, remap the transmission so that it works like it did before the diesel modification (it stutters terribly now on occasion, and is pretty sluggish overall), and probably do an ECU remap as well, which means I also need to get a Ross-Tech tool.

roadburner · November 2018

henryn said:

I first saw an ecosport about 4 or 5 months ago, while I was shopping for my new F150. I was sitting around on the sales floor, waiting on some paperwork, and there was a brand new ecosport sitting right next to me. So naturally, I checked it out. I was rather surprised at how roomy it felt sitting in the driver's seat, quite a bit better than the last Escape I tried to sit in.

Which interested me enough to go online and read a bit. Wherein the phrase "penalty box" really took on new meaning. This is from Edmunds review of the ecosport, I mean, seriously, 10.4 seconds 0-60 with the optional bigger engine??? Sheesh!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Unless the three-cylinder engine's turbochargers are spooled up and ready for action, it requires a Herculean effort to bring the EcoSport to highway speeds. In Edmunds testing, it required 11.4 seconds to reach 60 mph from a stop, one of the most leisurely paces in this segment. Selecting the 2.0-liter/AWD combo shaves a full second off the 0-60 mph time.

According to Car and Driver the 2.0 liter EcoSport takes 17.5 seconds to run the quarter mile as compared to 14.6 for my X1- yet CD managed to wring only one more MPG out of the EcoSport(24 mpg as opposed to 23 mpg for the X1).
Glacially slow and mediocre fuel economy- what an alluring combination.

xwesx · November 2018

Yes, for a vehicle that small, such abysmal fuel economy just makes no sense. That thing should get high 20s in urban driving.... and MUCH higher on the highway.

I could probably do as well in my Q7.

boomchek · November 2018

nyccarguy said:

boomchek said:

stickguy said:
but of course, those are the easiest deals. Skinny maybe, but it moves another unit, and takes no effort. get the price approved, send an email, pass some info back and forth, and he shows up the next day to sign papers and take car home. Heck, you could work 5 of those deals before lunch.
Unfortunately based on experience at multiple dealerships I worked at is that a dealer will have greater success closing a deal to someone in person than on email, and that means getting the person who emailed to acutally come in.

I've worked hundreds of email leads over the years and probably a good 90% of best price quotes sent out never came in, bought, or turned into a deal, skinny or not, even if the quote left nothing on the table for us. We have better chance of getting the deal by NOT quoting best number over email and instead inviting the customer to come in person.
This is why I'm so glad you are back @boomchek. It is great to have someone's perspective from "the other side" of the table. Do you think you didn't hear back because people were just poking around or did they just shop your price around?

Thanks, it could be both. I can quote a really low $500 over cost price over email but that doesn't stop someone from printing it out and getting another dealer to beat it, so there's very little incentive to "drop your pants" to someone anonymously emailing for quotes. A dealer has to make some sort of a small profit on the car they sell, otherwise there's no money to be made and the reason you see high staff turnover and management turnover, and in a extreme scenario why some dealerships close down. In the long run it's not a sustainable business model to be giving cars away. The manufacturers get reports on dealership new and used car grosses and share them with competing dealers in the region (we see what the exact volume and profit numbers are for every other dealer in our region). Low volume sales may result in poorer allocation which in turn limits product availability and ultimately hurts the dealer even more in the long run. CSI scores also have a lot do with it.

And yes, there are a lot of people poking around working their way backwards in the buying cycle. They'll send out emails, or visit dealers asking for "best price" on cars they have not even sat in or aren't sure they want to buy, basically spending hours negotiating on something the're not sure they want to buy.

Will we take a few skinny deals? Yes absolutely. But that's more like a last resort. Considering a Honda Civic, which is our bread and butter car, has about $1k-$1.5k markup, there isn't much room to play with from the start. And if we sell 95% of them with minimal discounts, there isn't an incentive to sell one at cost because we know we will sell it eventually for a more reasonable price than at or close to cost.

qbrozen · November 2018

It seems I may be zeroing in on a deal. Finally had a Volvo dealer contact me who is ready to drop 20% off loaners before incentives. I have a deal in hand, but it is FWD and now wife is insisting on AWD. A couple of my numbers and the salesperson's numbers don't quite align, so I'm trying to square that away, but we are within a few bucks at this point. I think.

graphicguy · November 2018

28firefighter said:
Congrats, @au1994 - both on the new car, but also the boat and the lake house! Very exciting stuff.

X2.....big congrats @au1994

jpp75 · November 2018

xwesx said:

Yeah, very true. All the more support for the dashcam argument.

As the winter progresses and no movement on the Q7, I'm thinking more and more that I am just going to keep it a while. I plan to get a dashcam, remap the transmission so that it works like it did before the diesel modification (it stutters terribly now on occasion, and is pretty sluggish overall), and probably do an ECU remap as well, which means I also need to get a Ross-Tech tool.

I've been ~~complaining~~ talking to @michaell and @breld for a while about my desire to get out of my Touareg TDI. After almost a year I haven't fallen in love with it and while the torque is amazing, the turbo lag isn't and I find myself annoyed with it way more than I find myself appreciating it. Especially since I'm paying a lot more for it than I was the first Touareg, which admittedly was a little low on power but the TDI just isn't proving to be worth the extra money for me.

Unfortunately I have a good bit of negative equity, so I have few options but am looking at rolling some of it into a cheaper lease. If that doesn't work I'll do the same as you and just live with it, certainly not a penalty but a VERY expensive lesson learned.

graphicguy · November 2018

@boomchek ...I get where you're coming from as a dealer. Go look at the pricing threads here at Edmunds. People will put themselves through all sorts of contortions for a deal....email a bunch of dealers (only to find the deal they thought they had falls through because of a myriad of other reasons), call a bunch of internet depts looking for a low ball quote (only to find out it wasn't valid once they get to the store), etc.

I've always felt....you can't make a deal unless you're sitting in the dealership's office.

I do most of my research before walking in the door. I make an appointment to visit the dealership. What drives me crazy is when the appointment is made and the sales person doesn't tell me they have that day off, or they're out to lunch, etc. I made the commitment to be there when I said I would. You would hope the sales person would do the same.

Price, taxes and tags are all figured into my offers.....all-in-one offer. That's what I expect to write the check for when in F&I. If the dealer agrees to my number? We have a deal, on the spot. If there's a variance in the numbers on the dealer's side, or there's any sort of bump they want to make, or there's some surprise fee, deal's off.

I'm fortunate. I've bought enough cars that most of what I buy, I've bought from the same salesperson and/or sales managers at my favorite dealerships over the years. I've bought 4 Acruas from the same dealership and salesperson over the years. I've bought 3 BMWs from the same dealership and same sales manager over the years. I've bought 3 Chevies from the same dealership. Although they seem to turn their sales staff over quite a bit, and I have to rely on the management of the dealership to make my deals.

I've bought 4 Hondas from the same dealership and the same sales person over the years.

They know what to expect from me. I know what to expect from them. That makes for a quick and easy deal. They spend very little time with me and they make a little money on a skinny deal. No muss. No fuss!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

stickguy said:
that chart might seem shocking, but really proves how good all cars are now, and how little variation there is among brands.

technically the top to bottom is double the problems! Oh My! But looking at it, that means on average the best make has 1 problem per car, the worst is 2. Ignoring the key question of how they define a problem (and treating a loose knob and a bad transmission most likely as equal), that is not enough of a difference to get me to not buy what I like and want to drive!

The bottom 6 are no surprise, but I would have expected Subaru and Acura to at least be closer to "industry average". I would have thought Mazda would be a bit higher, and Audi a bit lower, but close enough I guess.

Michaell · November 2018

Subaru - we've had our 2015 Outback for almost 4 years and 30,000 miles. Wife loves it; I'm …. more ambivalent. It doesn't help that @breld allows me time behind the wheel of the rotating fleet he and the Mrs. have. If I could afford a Q7 …. or a Macan …. or a Golf R …. or ….

Anyway, the Outback is competent enough, though I'm not 100% convinced that we would replace it with another Subaru when the time comes. No big rush, at the slow pace we are accumulating miles.

The Jetta has less than 14K on the clock after 27 months; looking more and more likely that it will get returned at lease end and not get replaced, immediately.

stickguy · November 2018

Shifty, Acura was skewed a few years ago by some trans glitches (not failing, but programming). And I think some infotainment stuff. So minor bugs to resolve, but still enough to up the count even if the issues were not really significant. Audi, somehow, they have become rock solid.

stickguy · November 2018

qbrozen said:
It seems I may be zeroing in on a deal. Finally had a Volvo dealer contact me who is ready to drop 20% off loaners before incentives. I have a deal in hand, but it is FWD and now wife is insisting on AWD. A couple of my numbers and the salesperson's numbers don't quite align, so I'm trying to square that away, but we are within a few bucks at this point. I think.

I have learned the hard way. Get her what she wants, or you will be doing this again sooner than you wanted too.

Now, If I only knew someone interested in a killer deal on a FWD S60.....

stickguy · November 2018

was out doing some shopping so I stopped into the Honda dealer nearby. Just browsed and sat (no drives today). Spent some time playing with a CRV EX-L. That is a seriously nice package. Seats were comfy, and seemed to be plenty adjustable with good thigh support. Lots of space inside without being huge outside (probably more cargo space than the RDX, but similar overall). Loaded with features (including all the Hondasense stuff). Lots of car for MSRP of ~$31K

Assuming it has enough scoot, I think the wife would really like it. Has all the goodies (and more) that my cars have had that she doesn't. She has a nasty commute now (lots of traffic to fight through coming home) and would really appreciate the BLIS, and having the emergency braking assist stuff at some point will probably come in handy. Plus Car Play so navi capable when she wants to try an alternate root. Really can't think of anything important it doesn't have.

Also was a good height. Easy to get in and out of, and good sightlines. I also sat in an Accord and it felt lower than my Elantra. I think that is a mistake for a larger sedan like this. Old people want a higher hip point!

But man, at least based on Honcker, they lease like crap. I can get a $42K QX60 for significantly less per month.

This would be something to buy and hold (her preference). But I still don't trust they have the oil contamination issue resolved. At least on a lease, no exposure!

28firefighter · November 2018

CR-V leases terribly. High MF, realistic residuals, and little to no incentive money. Better to buy the CR-V (and most Hondas...).

stickguy · November 2018

I think the lease was in the $440 range (I think for 36). so about $15,000 into it. with the likely leftover discounts, for about another $12K, I could just own the thing. And I highly doubt in 3 years, I could buy a like new clean low mile one for close to $12K.

au1994 · November 2018

Thanks all! And yes, its does feel a bit like we are single handily keeping the Georgia economy rolling.

I’m looking forward to Subaru ownership. I toyed with a Forester many years ago but couldn’t pull the trigger. I like the quirkiness of them, one of the reasons I was a huge Saab fan in the past. Definitely going to take advantage of the accessories offered and get some type of a cargo rack or hitch based cargo rack.

qbrozen · November 2018

stickguy said:

It seems I may be zeroing in on a deal. Finally had a Volvo dealer contact me who is ready to drop 20% off loaners before incentives. I have a deal in hand, but it is FWD and now wife is insisting on AWD. A couple of my numbers and the salesperson's numbers don't quite align, so I'm trying to square that away, but we are within a few bucks at this point. I think.
I have learned the hard way. Get her what she wants, or you will be doing this again sooner than you wanted too. Now, If I only knew someone interested in a killer deal on a FWD S60.....

Well, its black/black, which I believe is a deal killer for you. Also no BLIS. Does have moonroof, heated seats, and nav. MSRP is a bit over $38k. We were at about $305-$310 on it with just title/reg and first month at signing, and VFCS rebates the first month. So really just title/reg at signing. Oh and that was 36/15, so you'd be a good bit lower still. Dealer is up north so probably about 2 hrs from you.

xwesx · November 2018

jpp5862 said:

I've been ~~complaining~~ talking to @michaell and @breld for a while about my desire to get out of my Touareg TDI. After almost a year I haven't fallen in love with it and while the torque is amazing, the turbo lag isn't and I find myself annoyed with it way more than I find myself appreciating it. Especially since I'm paying a lot more for it than I was the first Touareg, which admittedly was a little low on power but the TDI just isn't proving to be worth the extra money for me.

Unfortunately I have a good bit of negative equity, so I have few options but am looking at rolling some of it into a cheaper lease. If that doesn't work I'll do the same as you and just live with it, certainly not a penalty but a VERY expensive lesson learned.

jpp, I think you bought yours after modification, yes? Good or bad, I had mine prior to the mod, so I had about 15,000 miles of knowing how it is supposed to operate... and it is fabulous! After another 10,000 with the modification, I'm pretty convinced that my discontentment rests largely on the mods they did to the transmission's operation. Some of it may be the engine mapping too, but what I have read about it leads me to suspect that the primary culprit is transmission.

Since you are underwater on it, maybe it is a good idea to remap your TCU back to factory spec, then see if you still feel the same way. I don't have a lot of additional details on remapping at this point, since I only decided in the last couple of weeks that I am probably going to keep this thing longer (and therefore am willing to sink more money into it for my own happiness). I still have it for sale, but so far I have only had lowballers contacting me wanting me to sell it for the low side of the KBB numbers, and I want it more than they do for that price!

28firefighter · November 2018

My Dad flipped his 2014 Touareg TDI shortly after getting the TDI fix done because of how badly it was stuttering while driving. Said it took an otherwise amazing engine and transmission combo and ruined it.

His "penalty box" is a 2014 Cayenne Turbo S he bought with 66k miles on it.

xwesx · November 2018

28firefighter said:
My Dad flipped his 2014 Touareg TDI shortly after getting the TDI fix done because of how badly it was stuttering while driving. Said it took an otherwise amazing engine and transmission combo and ruined it.

His "penalty box" is a 2014 Cayenne Turbo S he bought with 66k miles on it.

Yep, I've come to agree with that. My plan is to un-ruin mine.

tbirdmarco · November 2018

Q nice on almost having an punch hoping you and the wife do tomorrow. Stick guy, nice and the cards you sent in today at the Honda dealership. You should bring the wife to sit in one of those CRPS and if she likes it can you go can work out a deal where another dealership. All those charts even years back, I would take with the big queen of salt. Nothings perfect yes some car brands have more problems than others but nothings perfect. And me machines. Get what you like most overall of course can afford that’s a tough combination sometimes. Having the alternator conversion kit put on my 61 Thunderbird tomorrow along with a few other little things new tires finally. Going to be ready for the spring. Just have to fix the registration fiasco. Just some form I have to print out the brink of with me to the New York state DMVE and the next week or so with my dad, and I should be good to go.

nyccarguy · November 2018

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

It seems I may be zeroing in on a deal. Finally had a Volvo dealer contact me who is ready to drop 20% off loaners before incentives. I have a deal in hand, but it is FWD and now wife is insisting on AWD. A couple of my numbers and the salesperson's numbers don't quite align, so I'm trying to square that away, but we are within a few bucks at this point. I think.
I have learned the hard way. Get her what she wants, or you will be doing this again sooner than you wanted too. Now, If I only knew someone interested in a killer deal on a FWD S60.....

Well, its black/black, which I believe is a deal killer for you. Also no BLIS. Does have moonroof, heated seats, and nav. MSRP is a bit over $38k. We were at about $305-$310 on it with just title/reg and first month at signing, and VFCS rebates the first month. So really just title/reg at signing. Oh and that was 36/15, so you'd be a good bit lower still. Dealer is up north so probably about 2 hrs from you.

Tell me more about this S60. Inquiring minds want to know. $305/$310 for 36/15 sounds like a phenomenal deal. If it falls through, can you post a link or a pic? 17” wheels?

qbrozen · November 2018

Salesperson didn't get back to me tonight. I'll call her tomorrow and get back to you.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

My car buying saga just got even weirder. This is soooo unlikely, but it really happened.

I told you guys that the dealer with the RX-8, who refused my offer, called back with a "price reduction"? So I got to enjoy telling him I bought another car.

Well, now---remember the Volvo dealer in Sacramento who had what I thought was just the perfect C30, who then sold it out from under me after telling me not to come up yet, because it was in "recon" and "couldn't be sold"? Yeah, I was so mad I called them up to let them know what weasels they were.

Well, turns out the man who brought the car back because he "lost his job". Basically, yep, he defaulted.

So THEY just called me and left a message to let me know the car was mine if I wanted it. I can hardly wait to tell them I bought a nicer car for less money.

NO....WAIT! It gets weirder. I don't know if I mentioned that I also contacted another indie dealer called Mango Motors---nice people. They had a red C30--manual transmission -- but a bit higher miles than I liked. So when I inquired about coming up to see it, they said I had to "wait a few days" because it was possibly under contract.

So yeah, you guessed it--I got a phone message yesterday that THAT deal unwound as well. Financing fell through.

Moral of this whacko story? I guess I got the car I was destined to have! or perhaps it proved the old adage: "All things come to he who waits".

tbirdmarco · November 2018

Wow all crazy! Yes Agreed. With your sayings. Above you got the car you wher meant to have. Good luck Q can’t to hear the rest tomero

stickguy · November 2018

thanks Q. Yeah, the price is tasty. But black over black is a real tough one to bite on. especially missing something I want to have. I should stop by my local place and see what they are willing to do.

I assume this is a loaner? How many miles?

benjaminh · November 2018

stickguy said:
was out doing some shopping so I stopped into the Honda dealer nearby. Just browsed and sat (no drives today). Spent some time playing with a CRV EX-L. That is a seriously nice package. Seats were comfy, and seemed to be plenty adjustable with good thigh support. Lots of space inside without being huge outside (probably more cargo space than the RDX, but similar overall). Loaded with features (including all the Hondasense stuff). Lots of car for MSRP of ~$31K

Assuming it has enough scoot, I think the wife would really like it. Has all the goodies (and more) that my cars have had that she doesn't. She has a nasty commute now (lots of traffic to fight through coming home) and would really appreciate the BLIS, and having the emergency braking assist stuff at some point will probably come in handy. Plus Car Play so navi capable when she wants to try an alternate root. Really can't think of anything important it doesn't have.

Also was a good height. Easy to get in and out of, and good sightlines. I also sat in an Accord and it felt lower than my Elantra. I think that is a mistake for a larger sedan like this. Old people want a higher hip point!

But man, at least based on Honcker, they lease like crap. I can get a $42K QX60 for significantly less per month.

This would be something to buy and hold (her preference). But I still don't trust they have the oil contamination issue resolved. At least on a lease, no exposure!

As you've discovered, the CR-V is a lot of SUV for the money. The engine oil issue you mention is supposed to be fixed for the 2019 model year, while earlier years are probably going to get a software update. I think the 1.5 liter turbo has good power, but as mentioned there's a bit of turbo lag in some situations. Honda only offers low financing and lease rates on the base LX model, but imho all CR-Vs are priced fairly for what you get. But like with your Elantra you'd have to go with market financing.

But if you want to lease, you could probably lease an Acura MDX for about the same price as a CR-V EXL. Here's the advertised lease at my local dealer....

"Lease a 2019 Acura MDX 9-Speed Automatic AWD for $369/mo. for 36 months
$2,699 due at signing, $0 security deposit
MDX17-202P_Base_SH_AWD_White_SoftShadow.jpg
Plus tax, title, license, dealer processing fee."

stickguy · November 2018

MDX can be a deal, but too big for our needs. And sadly the RDX is worse to lease than the CRV, but without the affordability to buy.

problem with the oil issue is, the 2019s are not out yet, so it would be buying a 2018 without a fix. And I assume the "built in" fix for 2019 might be more robust.

Kinda odd actually that it is already the end of November, and no sign of 2019 units. Since it isn't being redesigned. Though my dealer now has some listed as "coming soon". So might be that they still have a ton of 2018s to unload, so they are hiding the 2019s in the back for now!

we aren't in a hurry, so waiting for 2019s to come out and doing something over presidents day is an option. Plus the new design RAV-4 should be out soon I think And that looks quite interesting in this class.

Plus, looking is fun!

qbrozen · November 2018

stickguy said:

thanks Q. Yeah, the price is tasty. But black over black is a real tough one to bite on. especially missing something I want to have. I should stop by my local place and see what they are willing to do. I assume this is a loaner? How many miles?

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me but I believe just under 5k miles.

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