What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

Vbp1 · June 2020

Hello, I need an honest opinion/comparison on my next car purchase.
I currently drive 2010 Subaru Forester premium. I plan to upgrade this year or , at very least , begining of next year.
My 2 main choices are:
A 2020 Forester Sport
OR
A 2020 RAV4 hybrid LE.
The price wise they are almost the same
But I can not make a desicion between.
I like Subaru, my 2010 has been almost bulletproof for all 10 years and 158k miles. It is still in a decent shape but as a 10yo car it starting to become not as reliable as I prefere. I drive over 80miles a day so want a Little better reliability , otherwise I would keep it for another 5 or so years.
A straight comparison put my 2 choices almost head to head but...
Toyota has 2 main things going for it.
1. A better mileage , as I am looking for hybrid
2. The dealership and service department is very close to my home. Much easier maintanace and services.

My Subaru dealer is about 15-20 min away so scheduling service and such is more hustle.
But Forester has better visibility over all and much bigger doors to get in/out
More headroom.
And higher clearance as well, not that I do much off-roading, but even in town I find better clearance helps on occasion.
So give me your take on this.

Thanks.

texases · June 2020

I'll be looking at those two in a year or so, along with the CX-5. Right now I'm leaning towards the Rav4, I currently drive a hybrid, and even though gas prices are low I like the low gas cost and great range between fillups. You're driving lots of miles, so that's another reason to go for the hybrid.

But a long test drive is needed in both, to see if each is comfortable for you.

kyfdx · June 2020

Just a thought... if most of your commute is highway, are you really saving that much with the Hybrid?
Seems the biggest advantage of hybrids is in city driving.

Vbp1 · June 2020

No kyfdx, you are thinking in terms of older hybrids. New ones are more about mpg rather than only ev range .
I'm older hybrids it was like you had a battery and how long you can drive in ev mode before switching to ICE.
New hybrids are always5 drive in ev mode or a combination ice+ev
At least Toyota hybrids.
That is latest RAV4 always AWD. The ice provides boost to the electric motor in front and power to electric motor in the back. Totally different setup comparing to hybrids 10 years ago.
Even with ice it still gets 40+ mpg
And the new prime trim rated at 90+ mpg
But it is too costly for me.

Texesas, I test drove Forester. I had a loaner for 2 days. It does not difer much from my current 2010. A bit roomier, and has a bunch of new safety features which I like, but over all not that different.
Now RAV4 I still need to do test drive but I will do this closer to then I am ready to buy of course.

benjaminh · June 2020

Vbp1 said:
No kyfdx, you are thinking in terms of older hybrids. New ones are more about mpg rather than only ev range .
I'm older hybrids it was like you had a battery and how long you can drive in ev mode before switching to ICE.
New hybrids are always5 drive in ev mode or a combination ice+ev
At least Toyota hybrids.
That is latest RAV4 always AWD. The ice provides boost to the electric motor in front and power to electric motor in the back. Totally different setup comparing to hybrids 10 years ago.
Even with ice it still gets 40+ mpg
And the new prime trim rated at 90+ mpg
But it is too costly for me.

Texesas, I test drove Forester. I had a loaner for 2 days. It does not difer much from my current 2010. A bit roomier, and has a bunch of new safety features which I like, but over all not that different.
Now RAV4 I still need to do test drive but I will do this closer to then I am ready to buy of course.

Have you also considered the new CR-V hybrid?

texases · June 2020

Latest Consumer Reports has a preliminary test of the CR-V hybrid, they were ok with it, but complained about slow acceleration from a stop.

I'm personally not a fan of Honda hybrids, they've had problems with them over the years. Maybe they got it right, now?

Vbp1 · June 2020

I looked at CR-V but point by point CR-V gives me nothing over Subaru.
The dealership is not overly convinient.
It closer, a little, but not very convenient to get to as Toyota.
Mileage is less than Toyota
Warranty is also less.
So no much of an advantage.
Price wise it is only a few hundreds less so no help there.

I think the desicion is between Toyota and Subaru unless something changes.

kyfdx · June 2020

2020 Rav4 hybrid: 41 city/ 38 hwy
2020 Rav4 Gas: 26 city/ 35 hwy

That's what I meant by the hybrid not being that big of an advantage in highway mileage. 3 MPG.

Those are the official EPA estimates.

55 gallon difference for every 25K miles.
$10/mo. in fuel cost savings.

texases · June 2020

I don't see it as an economic purchase. The hybrid version of the Rav4 is faster and smoother than the regular one, according to the reviews/tests, in addition to less gas and better range. I don't look for a return on the electronics on my cars, for example. Also, I bet some of the OP's commute will be more stop and go ('city') than 'highway'.

Vbp1 · June 2020

Well the new Forester has same specs
If am not going hybrid , I might as well stay with Subaru.
And price wise, the ice RAV4 AWD
Is only 1k less than hybrid.
I might as well get the benefits of hybrid for that 1k.

texases · June 2020

I meant that it's not a purchase controlled by the economics - other factors are important to me. If gas prices go up, it could be economic, too.

Vbp1 · June 2020

texases said:
I don't see it as an economic purchase. The hybrid version of the Rav4 is faster and smoother than the regular one, according to the reviews/tests, in addition to less gas and better range. I don't look for a return on the electronics on my cars, for example. Also, I bet some of the OP's commute will be more stop and go ('city') than 'highway'.

In fact most of my commute is highway.
Very Little City driving except on weekend's.
I am driving from Bergen county to Warren county. 30 miles on GSP and 10 on rt78. One way. Adjust a few miles here and there.

mcdawgg · June 2020

Vbp1 said:
Hello, I need an honest opinion/comparison on my next car purchase.
I currently drive 2010 Subaru Forester premium. I plan to upgrade this year or , at very least , begining of next year.
My 2 main choices are:
A 2020 Forester Sport
OR
A 2020 RAV4 hybrid LE.
The price wise they are almost the same
But I can not make a desicion between.
I like Subaru, my 2010 has been almost bulletproof for all 10 years and 158k miles. It is still in a decent shape but as a 10yo car it starting to become not as reliable as I prefere. I drive over 80miles a day so want a Little better reliability , otherwise I would keep it for another 5 or so years.
A straight comparison put my 2 choices almost head to head but...
Toyota has 2 main things going for it.
1. A better mileage , as I am looking for hybrid
2. The dealership and service department is very close to my home. Much easier maintanace and services.

My Subaru dealer is about 15-20 min away so scheduling service and such is more hustle.
But Forester has better visibility over all and much bigger doors to get in/out
More headroom.
And higher clearance as well, not that I do much off-roading, but even in town I find better clearance helps on occasion.
So give me your take on this.

Thanks.

Toyota's long-term reliability ratings are better than Subaru, Honda, etc.

walt501 · June 2020

Buy American, Ford and GM ONLY!!! And no, it doesn't matter where they're made, the PROFITS STAY IN AMERICA!

qbrozen · June 2020

walt501 said:
Buy American, Ford and GM ONLY!!! And no, it doesn't matter where they're made, the PROFITS STAY IN AMERICA!

What do you think a company does with the money it makes?

Vbp1 · June 2020

Sorry walt501 , but I simply can not afford that. I would love to buy American only. And when I can I do, but no American made SUV of the same class and price range last as long as suby or Toyota.
Imperically evident buy numerouse issues encountared by many of my friends and colleagues over the years.

mcdawgg · June 2020

walt501 said:
Buy American, Ford and GM ONLY!!! And no, it doesn't matter where they're made, the PROFITS STAY IN AMERICA!

Toyota's stock symbol on the New York Stock Exchange is TM.

Hiram · July 2020

My 2017 Jetta GLI lease will be ending November 2020.
Payoff amount as of today is $17,314.80

Per Edmunds.com Dealer retail value is $18,381 Private party $15,757 Trade in value $13,351

My monthly payments are $406 and I’m comfortable with that.

Here’s the order of what I would LIKE to do:
1. Used Golf R
2. Used GTI
3. New Jetta GL
4. Atlas
5. Keep the Jetta

I feel like the best thing would be to keep the Jetta.

Like I mentioned, I’m comfortable with my $406 payments, but would love to pay less. It will probably be difficult to get a lower car payment without putting a good down payment.

Another note, I am already over miles. I have 39,xxx...my commute is 50 miles a day round trip. I should decide soon, so I know if I should purchase more miles at a lower rate.

Suggestions?
Thanks

qbrozen · July 2020

Hiram said:
My 2017 Jetta GLI lease will be ending November 2020.
Payoff amount as of today is $17,314.80

Per Edmunds.com Dealer retail value is $18,381 Private party $15,757 Trade in value $13,351

My monthly payments are $406 and I’m comfortable with that.

Here’s the order of what I would LIKE to do:
1. Used Golf R
2. Used GTI
3. New Jetta GL
4. Atlas
5. Keep the Jetta

I feel like the best thing would be to keep the Jetta.

Like I mentioned, I’m comfortable with my $406 payments, but would love to pay less. It will probably be difficult to get a lower car payment without putting a good down payment.

Another note, I am already over miles. I have 39,xxx...my commute is 50 miles a day round trip. I should decide soon, so I know if I should purchase more miles at a lower rate.

Suggestions?
Thanks

$400/mo for a Jetta is nuts. I pay less than that for a $42k vehicle.
How many miles was your original term? Current trade is $15k-$15,250, so edmunds isn't too far off. That would put fair retail at about $17.5k-$18k. In other words, your payoff isn't anything great. It is just about right.

Here is the rub, finance that $17k over 48 mos and you'll be right there at that $400 number, BUT you'll be paying for a used car soon to be out of warranty, not to mention having essentially financed the car over 7 years.

Do some research on leases (read leashackr ... google it), and get yourself into another lease with 15k/yr for quite a bit less ... and don't put anything down!

Hiram · July 2020

Yes, $400 for a car that much isn’t the best, nothing I can do about that now.

36k miles for my original term.

I know I’m not in a good position, that’s why I came here...

qbrozen · July 2020

Buying miles is usually cheaper, BTW. For example, your current payment of $400/mo for 1k miles per month is 40 cents per mile. If the extra miles cost you 25 cents each, you are making out.

You could look to see the current deals and if you could swap early. Unfortunately, your excess miles, remaining payments, and termination fee would add approx $80/mo to the next lease. But I suppose maybe that looks better than the $650/mo or so over the next 4 mos to cover your current payment plus miles. It is a close call, depending how you look at it.

You might want to see what Carvana and Vroom would pay for it. POSSIBLY, if you get a strong offer from one of them, you could get out now for under $2k out of pocket, which would be your cheapest overall solution.

eaw7199 · December 2020

I am the original owner of a 2007 Camry whose exhaust just fell out. Sounds like a rocket ship. In addition, leaks oil from both valve cover, pan. Brakes squeak. Time to get a new car! Need suggestions.
Must have

Blind Spot Monitor
Android Auto
Remote Start
Smart Key
Reliable Brand
Less than 30k out the door in NJ
New car. Not preowned.

Nice to have

Wireless Android Auto
Hybrid
2021 Model

I priced out a 2021 Honda Accord Hybrid with Costco auto that I think meets all of the above criteria but it was $29,400 + tax, tags. I don't want to go above 30k.
Suggestions?

texases · December 2020

Camry hybrid or Corolla hybrid. I would never buy a Honda hybrid, a long history of problems.

kyfdx · December 2020

texases said:
Camry hybrid or Corolla hybrid. I would never buy a Honda hybrid, a long history of problems.

Plus, the hybrid tech has always been behind Toyota..

eaw7199 · December 2020

eaw7199 said:
I am the original owner of a 2007 Camry whose exhaust just fell out. Sounds like a rocket ship. In addition, leaks oil from both valve cover, pan. Brakes squeak. Time to get a new car! Need suggestions.
Must have
Blind Spot Monitor
Android Auto
Remote Start
Smart Key
Reliable Brand
Less than 30k out the door in NJ
New car. Not preowned.
Nice to have
Wireless Android Auto
Hybrid
2021 Model
I priced out a 2021 Honda Accord Hybrid with Costco auto that I think meets all of the above criteria but it was $29,400 + tax, tags. I don't want to go above 30k.
Suggestions?

Ok, need some advice. Best offer on 2020 Accord EX non-hybrid is $25,100 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2021 Accord EX hybrid is $29,400 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2020 Camry Hybrid XLE is $28,951 plus tax and tags.

What should I do? Should I wait another week? Will prices get better closer to December 31st?

Corolla is a great value but too small for my family of 4.

Michaell · December 2020

eaw7199 said:

eaw7199 said:
I am the original owner of a 2007 Camry whose exhaust just fell out. Sounds like a rocket ship. In addition, leaks oil from both valve cover, pan. Brakes squeak. Time to get a new car! Need suggestions.
Must have
Blind Spot Monitor
Android Auto
Remote Start
Smart Key
Reliable Brand
Less than 30k out the door in NJ
New car. Not preowned.
Nice to have
Wireless Android Auto
Hybrid
2021 Model
I priced out a 2021 Honda Accord Hybrid with Costco auto that I think meets all of the above criteria but it was $29,400 + tax, tags. I don't want to go above 30k.
Suggestions?
Ok, need some advice. Best offer on 2020 Accord EX non-hybrid is $25,100 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2021 Accord EX hybrid is $29,400 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2020 Camry Hybrid XLE is $28,951 plus tax and tags.

What should I do? Should I wait another week? Will prices get better closer to December 31st?

Corolla is a great value but too small for my family of 4.

The week between Christmas and New Years is usually the best time of year to shop.

mcdawgg · December 2020

eaw7199 said:

eaw7199 said:
I am the original owner of a 2007 Camry whose exhaust just fell out. Sounds like a rocket ship. In addition, leaks oil from both valve cover, pan. Brakes squeak. Time to get a new car! Need suggestions.
Must have
Blind Spot Monitor
Android Auto
Remote Start
Smart Key
Reliable Brand
Less than 30k out the door in NJ
New car. Not preowned.
Nice to have
Wireless Android Auto
Hybrid
2021 Model
I priced out a 2021 Honda Accord Hybrid with Costco auto that I think meets all of the above criteria but it was $29,400 + tax, tags. I don't want to go above 30k.
Suggestions?
Ok, need some advice. Best offer on 2020 Accord EX non-hybrid is $25,100 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2021 Accord EX hybrid is $29,400 plus tax and tags. Best offer on 2020 Camry Hybrid XLE is $28,951 plus tax and tags.

What should I do? Should I wait another week? Will prices get better closer to December 31st?

Corolla is a great value but too small for my family of 4.

Camry, between Christmas and New Year's.

eaw7199 · December 2020

Thanks everyone for the advice. Ended up buying the 2020 Camry XLE Hybrid for $28,398 plus tax + tags.

KamCottage · February 2021

I am looking at buying a used Nissan Altima, Hyundai Sonata or Kia Optima. Roughly around 3 or 4 years old. I am having trouble comparing because lots of specs have changed over the last several years on all 3. So it's hard to compare, say, a 2017 Sonata with a 2019 Altima or a 2018 Optima. I have to set up basically 12 or more comparisons to really cover everything in this group of choices. Is there an easier way to do this?

Basically I am looking for the most reliable of these 3 with great mileage and good repair ratings. I'm choosing among these because it has to have a minimum 45" leg room in the front, but not be a truck. I haven't test driven any but the Altima. So I am feeling a bit overwhelmed about choosing. My Honda Civic has 179000 miles on it so I am anxious to do something soon. Thanks in advance for any advice you might have. (cross posted with permission from a moderator.)

mcdawgg · February 2021

KamCottage said:
I am looking at buying a used Nissan Altima, Hyundai Sonata or Kia Optima. Roughly around 3 or 4 years old. I am having trouble comparing because lots of specs have changed over the last several years on all 3. So it's hard to compare, say, a 2017 Sonata with a 2019 Altima or a 2018 Optima. I have to set up basically 12 or more comparisons to really cover everything in this group of choices. Is there an easier way to do this?

Basically I am looking for the most reliable of these 3 with great mileage and good repair ratings. I'm choosing among these because it has to have a minimum 45" leg room in the front, but not be a truck. I haven't test driven any but the Altima. So I am feeling a bit overwhelmed about choosing. My Honda Civic has 179000 miles on it so I am anxious to do something soon. Thanks in advance for any advice you might have. (cross posted with permission from a moderator.)

If long-term reliability is your concern, buy a Toyota.

backy · February 2021

KamCottage, these 3 all have similar MPG and reliability, but I'd favor the Sonata and Optima if only because they don't have a CVT, plus the 2015+ Sonata and 2016+ Optima are newer designs than the pre-2019 Altima. If you can afford the 2019+ Altima, that's a very nice car.

I think you need to figure out what else is important to you. Be sure to drive all of them, see if you have a preference. I've driven all of them, the Altima and Sonata for a lot of miles as long-distance rentals, and they were all OK by me with excellent fuel economy for a large-ish car. If money is a factor, you can probably get a 3-4 year old Sonata or Optima for less than a similar vintage Altima. Also if you get a CPO Sonata and Optima, you get the 10-year powertrain warranty.

(A plus for the 3 cars you're looking at is that they offer at least 45" of front leg room, which you said you need, vs. more like 42" for the Camry of 3-4 years ago.)

KamCottage · February 2021

backy said:
KamCottage, these 3 all have similar MPG and reliability, but I'd favor the Sonata and Optima if only because they don't have a CVT, plus the 2015+ Sonata and 2016+ Optima are newer designs than the pre-2019 Altima. If you can afford the 2019+ Altima, that's a very nice car.

I think you need to figure out what else is important to you. Be sure to drive all of them, see if you have a preference. I've driven all of them, the Altima and Sonata for a lot of miles as long-distance rentals, and they were all OK by me with excellent fuel economy for a large-ish car. If money is a factor, you can probably get a 3-4 year old Sonata or Optima for less than a similar vintage Altima. Also if you get a CPO Sonata and Optima, you get the 10-year powertrain warranty.

(A plus for the 3 cars you're looking at is that they offer at least 45" of front leg room, which you said you need, vs. more like 42" for the Camry of 3-4 years ago.)

Thank you backy. Since I first posted this question, I've come to realize, as mcdawgg said above, that I want a Toyota or Honda because of the reliability. I am just so damn used to longevity in all my cars that I think anything less would make me unhappy in the long run. I don't have the patience or money to repair stuff anymore than I have to... and since I have driven beaters into the ground, I don't care about aesthetics as much as durability. That said if no Toyota or Honda is a good fit for the husband than we will look at an Optima CPO. We're heading to Carmax today to just get in a bunch of cars and see what kind of room there is in the front driver seat for him, 6 foot 4, and me who will be the main driver.

mcdawgg · February 2021

KamCottage said:

backy said:
KamCottage, these 3 all have similar MPG and reliability, but I'd favor the Sonata and Optima if only because they don't have a CVT, plus the 2015+ Sonata and 2016+ Optima are newer designs than the pre-2019 Altima. If you can afford the 2019+ Altima, that's a very nice car.

I think you need to figure out what else is important to you. Be sure to drive all of them, see if you have a preference. I've driven all of them, the Altima and Sonata for a lot of miles as long-distance rentals, and they were all OK by me with excellent fuel economy for a large-ish car. If money is a factor, you can probably get a 3-4 year old Sonata or Optima for less than a similar vintage Altima. Also if you get a CPO Sonata and Optima, you get the 10-year powertrain warranty.

(A plus for the 3 cars you're looking at is that they offer at least 45" of front leg room, which you said you need, vs. more like 42" for the Camry of 3-4 years ago.)
Thank you backy. Since I first posted this question, I've come to realize, as mcdawgg said above, that I want a Toyota or Honda because of the reliability. I am just so damn used to longevity in all my cars that I think anything less would make me unhappy in the long run. I don't have the patience or money to repair stuff anymore than I have to... and since I have driven beaters into the ground, I don't care about aesthetics as much as durability. That said if no Toyota or Honda is a good fit for the husband than we will look at an Optima CPO. We're heading to Carmax today to just get in a bunch of cars and see what kind of room there is in the front driver seat for him, 6 foot 4, and me who will be the main driver.

Hands down, Toyota if the best long-term reliability is your main goal. Well, Lexus, but it's just a more fancy Toyota. Honda is stiil good, but not as good as Toyota, especially since 2016.

qbrozen · February 2021

mcdawgg said:

KamCottage said:

backy said:
KamCottage, these 3 all have similar MPG and reliability, but I'd favor the Sonata and Optima if only because they don't have a CVT, plus the 2015+ Sonata and 2016+ Optima are newer designs than the pre-2019 Altima. If you can afford the 2019+ Altima, that's a very nice car.

I think you need to figure out what else is important to you. Be sure to drive all of them, see if you have a preference. I've driven all of them, the Altima and Sonata for a lot of miles as long-distance rentals, and they were all OK by me with excellent fuel economy for a large-ish car. If money is a factor, you can probably get a 3-4 year old Sonata or Optima for less than a similar vintage Altima. Also if you get a CPO Sonata and Optima, you get the 10-year powertrain warranty.

(A plus for the 3 cars you're looking at is that they offer at least 45" of front leg room, which you said you need, vs. more like 42" for the Camry of 3-4 years ago.)
Thank you backy. Since I first posted this question, I've come to realize, as mcdawgg said above, that I want a Toyota or Honda because of the reliability. I am just so damn used to longevity in all my cars that I think anything less would make me unhappy in the long run. I don't have the patience or money to repair stuff anymore than I have to... and since I have driven beaters into the ground, I don't care about aesthetics as much as durability. That said if no Toyota or Honda is a good fit for the husband than we will look at an Optima CPO. We're heading to Carmax today to just get in a bunch of cars and see what kind of room there is in the front driver seat for him, 6 foot 4, and me who will be the main driver.
Hands down, Toyota if the best long-term reliability is your main goal. Well, Lexus, but it's just a more fancy Toyota. Honda is stiil good, but not as good as Toyota, especially since 2016.

source?

texases · February 2021

Consumer reports.

qbrozen · February 2021

texases said:
Consumer reports.

I don’t subscribe. How long are the cars tested? 100k? 200k?

mcdawgg · February 2021

qbrozen said:

mcdawgg said:

KamCottage said:

backy said:
KamCottage, these 3 all have similar MPG and reliability, but I'd favor the Sonata and Optima if only because they don't have a CVT, plus the 2015+ Sonata and 2016+ Optima are newer designs than the pre-2019 Altima. If you can afford the 2019+ Altima, that's a very nice car.

I think you need to figure out what else is important to you. Be sure to drive all of them, see if you have a preference. I've driven all of them, the Altima and Sonata for a lot of miles as long-distance rentals, and they were all OK by me with excellent fuel economy for a large-ish car. If money is a factor, you can probably get a 3-4 year old Sonata or Optima for less than a similar vintage Altima. Also if you get a CPO Sonata and Optima, you get the 10-year powertrain warranty.

(A plus for the 3 cars you're looking at is that they offer at least 45" of front leg room, which you said you need, vs. more like 42" for the Camry of 3-4 years ago.)
Thank you backy. Since I first posted this question, I've come to realize, as mcdawgg said above, that I want a Toyota or Honda because of the reliability. I am just so damn used to longevity in all my cars that I think anything less would make me unhappy in the long run. I don't have the patience or money to repair stuff anymore than I have to... and since I have driven beaters into the ground, I don't care about aesthetics as much as durability. That said if no Toyota or Honda is a good fit for the husband than we will look at an Optima CPO. We're heading to Carmax today to just get in a bunch of cars and see what kind of room there is in the front driver seat for him, 6 foot 4, and me who will be the main driver.
Hands down, Toyota if the best long-term reliability is your main goal. Well, Lexus, but it's just a more fancy Toyota. Honda is stiil good, but not as good as Toyota, especially since 2016.
source?

CR, JDP, independent mechanics, etc.

texases · February 2021

CR's reliability rating come from surveys they send to all subscribers, and they summarize the results of the last 10 years' info.

qbrozen · February 2021

So, when I say source, I mean one you can actually show.
Here is JDP dependability, for example Genesis is #1.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2020/02/12/new-cars-jd-power-2020-vehicle-dependability-study-trucks-suvs/4722896002/

texases · February 2021

I don’t put much weight on JDP new car reliability, pretty short term.

qbrozen · February 2021

Pretty sure they all are. But I’m willing to learn

kyfdx · February 2021

qbrozen said:
Pretty sure they all are. But I’m willing to learn

Consumer Reports surveys their subscribers for their long-term repair/reliability ratings.
It is actually what it says it is.

qbrozen · February 2021

So we're talking specifically about this survey, right?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/how-asian-domestic-european-automakers-rank-for-car-reliability/

I can't view the results, of course. I'm curious to know if they state how many of a particular brand they were able to survey. In their FAQ, they say an average of 200-300 per model per year x20 yrs. They received 329,000 in 2020. That would break down to 66 models. Honda and Toyota alone have 28 (not counting submodels like Prius Prime or Accord Hybrid).

What can I say? I'm a stats guy. It makes me curious. On the surface, it would seem even CR's data is extremely limited. I mean, how many responses did they get for, say, the Optima? Probably a few. What about less common vehicles? Like maybe the Ghibli? Stelvio? You get what I mean.

I've also mentioned many times before, IMHO, CR is for appliance people, so it will skew toward appliance vehicles since they only survey their subscribers. I would think they have a very low subscriber base who are Jaguar owners, for example.

kyfdx · February 2021

qbrozen said:
So we're talking specifically about this survey, right?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/how-asian-domestic-european-automakers-rank-for-car-reliability/

I can't view the results, of course. I'm curious to know if they state how many of a particular brand they were able to survey. In their FAQ, they say an average of 200-300 per model per year x20 yrs. They received 329,000 in 2020. That would break down to 66 models. Honda and Toyota alone have 28 (not counting submodels like Prius Prime or Accord Hybrid).

What can I say? I'm a stats guy. It makes me curious. On the surface, it would seem even CR's data is extremely limited. I mean, how many responses did they get for, say, the Optima? Probably a few. What about less common vehicles? Like maybe the Ghibli? Stelvio? You get what I mean.

I've also mentioned many times before, IMHO, CR is for appliance people, so it will skew toward appliance vehicles since they only survey their subscribers. I would think they have a very low subscriber base who are Jaguar owners, for example.

I'll guess they survey more Accord owners than all Jaguar models combined.
How are you ever going to get meaningful data from a make that sells so few cars?

Name one other organization that actually compiles data or surveys, long term. I don't think there are any.

It's fashionable to crap on Consumer Reports, but they have science on their side, unlike others, such as JD Power that just exist to sell advertising. And, they are open about it. Even without a subscription, you found out they surveyed 329K owners, just last year.

I haven't subscribed in a long time, but they've been doing it for over 50 years. Of course, you could always ask the salesperson at the dealership..

qbrozen · February 2021

kyfdx said:

I'll guess they survey more Accord owners than all Jaguar models combined.
How are you ever going to get meaningful data from a make that sells so few cars?

Name one other organization that actually compiles data or surveys, long term. I don't think there are any.

Oh, you can't. But that's my point when folks throw old thinking around like "Honda and Toyota are the only reliable cars." It just isn't that simple. I would say HyunKia are just as reliable these days. Do I have proof? Nope. But nobody has proof to say otherwise. That's all I'm getting at.

kyfdx · February 2021

qbrozen said:

kyfdx said:

I'll guess they survey more Accord owners than all Jaguar models combined.
How are you ever going to get meaningful data from a make that sells so few cars?

Name one other organization that actually compiles data or surveys, long term. I don't think there are any.

Oh, you can't. But that's my point when folks throw old thinking around like "Honda and Toyota are the only reliable cars." It just isn't that simple. I would say HyunKia are just as reliable these days. Do I have proof? Nope. But nobody has proof to say otherwise. That's all I'm getting at.

I bet CR has a lot of surveys on those two makes. You might be right, and they could probably back it up.

backy · February 2021

KamCottage said:

Thank you backy. Since I first posted this question, I've come to realize, as mcdawgg said above, that I want a Toyota or Honda because of the reliability. I am just so damn used to longevity in all my cars that I think anything less would make me unhappy in the long run. I don't have the patience or money to repair stuff anymore than I have to... and since I have driven beaters into the ground, I don't care about aesthetics as much as durability. That said if no Toyota or Honda is a good fit for the husband than we will look at an Optima CPO. We're heading to Carmax today to just get in a bunch of cars and see what kind of room there is in the front driver seat for him, 6 foot 4, and me who will be the main driver.

Did you get a car yet? If not and are still considering the Optima, JD Power just ranked the 2018 Optima the #1 mid-sized car in its latest Vehicle Dependability Study. And Kia was the highest-ranked mass-market brand overall, behind only Lexus and Porsche. FYI the 2018 Sonata was the #2 mid-sized car.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

RayeEliza · February 2021

I am doing major research in trying to find my new car, which I am more leaning towards an SUV. Since I recently moved to Washington state and having to deal with snow, I will need a car that I can drive in snow without issues. I am also looking for somewhat good mileage and really good cargo space. I have only three cars I'm looking for that I am interested in which are the Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4 hybrid, and the Subaru Forester. Which of these would you all recommend or if there are any others that sound just as good. The optimal price range is below $35,000.

mlevine · February 2021

I would lean toward subaru. Need to see which model you are comfortable in. Mazda SUVs and honda SUVs also not a bad choice.

mcdawgg · February 2021

RayeEliza said:
I am doing major research in trying to find my new car, which I am more leaning towards an SUV. Since I recently moved to Washington state and having to deal with snow, I will need a car that I can drive in snow without issues. I am also looking for somewhat good mileage and really good cargo space. I have only three cars I'm looking for that I am interested in which are the Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4 hybrid, and the Subaru Forester. Which of these would you all recommend or if there are any others that sound just as good. The optimal price range is below $35,000.

Toyota, especially for the long-term reliability.

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