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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Well, the biggest problem I have with the G25 is the lack of certain features at its price point that Infiniti decided to charge for it. I think the TSX I4 with tech is a much better option at the same price point plus your getting a nav system in that vehicle. The mpg of the G25 is not really that great considering it is only 1mpg better in city/highway miles compared to a RWD G37. It should be a lot better than 1mpg considering the difference in engines between a G37 and G25.

    Plus, the deals people have been reporting on the G37 and G25 are not that much different from one another. The G37 is not that much more per month and your getting a heck of a lot more car for the money with the G37 then you are with the G25.

    The G25 basically serves the purpose of getting people into the Infiniti brand without too much bells and whistles about it. I still fee the G37 is a much better buy over the G25, obviously for the sport enthusiast as well.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    I don't understand why my post was censored. I quoted right from Edmond's page that the NM was worthy of comparison. The discussion was interesting and informative to any one looking at a ELLPS. It ran it's course and the thread will move on. Looking beyond the box never hurt anyone when shopping for a vehicle. I thought Edmonds was better than this

    I just saw Motor trend uses as a gauge the snobbery factor to judge as in the G25 article linked here. Are we dealing with that here?

    I frequent the "Toyota on the mend" thread and all topics are allowed to be discussed over there, I guess that's where I'm coming from. Maybe a different moderator?

    Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, something I fought for.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited January 2011
    Like it or don't, believe it or not, you have absolutely zero right to "free speech" on any and every private forum, this one included.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,359
    Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, something I fought for.

    The First Amendment does not apply to private internet forums. Start your own board if you want to discuss anything you like- that's what a bunch of us did almost one decade ago...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    If you can live without the extra options that the 37 offers, then by all means, take the 25. Considering that there's virtually NO difference between the cars besides the badges and the engines (same suspension, brakes, steering, and interior appointments), and driving impressions seem to be positive despite the lower HP, it's a good deal to get into an Infiniti instead of settling for a FWD TSX IMO.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    edited January 2011
    This is entirely accurate. A simple reading of the Constitution, rather than a re-phrasing of what one believes it to say, will provide illumination. Freedom of speech allows you the liberty to say whatever you want, without at the same time obligating ANYONE to provide you with a venue in which to say it.

    However, anyone who is truly committed to changing this can take the first step with me - We can drop by your friend's or relative's house (better yet... the boss!), stone drunk, with my accordion, and sit on their porch singing show tunes all night to proclaim our newly-defined right to Freedom of Speech. :)

    I joke, but the fact is that our topic-oriented discussions are just that. We allow you to discuss any vehicle-related topic that might be of interest - we just require that you do so in a discussion about that vehicle. New and old members alike should have some reasonable expectation that the majority of conversation centers around the topic in the discussion title, and/or around the vehicles listed in the discussion header. Some of the discussions in Auto News are looser and more fluid. Sedans discussions are vehicle(s)-specific.

    I have, at least twice, pointed to a perfectly good discussion to talk about the Maxima (plus there are Maxima-specific discussions). No reason that conversation can't be continued there, unless of course there's not enough interest, which would mean there's... just not enough interest in general. It's pretty clear that the Maxima does not, at this time, qualify as an ELLPS.

    And of course you are perfectly allowed to start your own message board - not every Forum style suits every person, and there is no One True Forum. Lots of people frequent a variety of fora, on a variety of topics. That's cool. Hey, we even started an Off-Topic board a few years ago, recognizing that sometimes people just want to chat about stuff other than cars. I think we've actually become more flexible over the past few years... who'd have thought we'd be swapping recipes, book and movie recommendations, political views, and travel ideas on a car site?

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  • I considered it too and found out that in real world G37 costs slightly more than G25 (like may 36K vs 33K). Its up to you what do you prefer, but if you are going to shell out 30 grands anyway does couple of grands make any difference? My only problem with G is that it is tight inside and looks cartoonish and misproportioned at the same time. But I am going to compare it to Regal 2.0T anyway. Acura ugliness keeps me away from it. Regal is European car and may be unreliable, thats my concern. What else. Volvo S60 - good reviews but even tighter than G and overpriced and I did not like interior, and not good reliability record either. I commute a lot so miles pile up quickly and if my car keeps breaking down often it is not okay, so CC and A4 go out of window too. Japanese better outsource designs to California studious otherwise there is almost nothing to consider.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2011
    Wow, there are so many things in your post that I either don't agree with or just don't understand.

    G is tight inside? You do know this is the ELLPS thread, right? All of these sedans are small. If you need space, you should be shopping in another segment.

    Regal a European car? Sort of. The Buick Regal is the American version of the Opel Insignia, which is built by Opel, a GM owned company. There are lots of fine "European" American cars (Holden Commodore, Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Monaro, Opel Vectra), but to imply they might be unreliable because they are European is just ridiculous.

    Volvo S60 small and unreliable? Again, what's all this "unreliable European car" talk? I have owned many European cars over the years and didn't find them any more or less reliable than any other car. And how does the S60 have a poor reliability record when this is the first model year? And again, why do you think the S60 is tight? You do know Volvo also has something called the S80 for people who want more space, right?

    CC and A4 out the window too? Really, I assume they break down too much also?

    Japanese cars need California design? So, the G37 is ugly and so is the TL and TSX I assume?

    You do realize that you've eliminated every car in this discussion thread, right? May I suggest you start a new thread entitled, "ELLPS BRAG" (Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans that are Big Reliable And Good-looking).
  • I am sorry but I expressed my opinion, you can disagree with me and be entitled to your own, but I will spend my hard earned money as I find appropriate and will buy whatever fits best my budget, tastes and requirement no matter what other people think about it.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2011
    I don't think there's anything wrong with your taste, requirements, etc. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I do doubt your reliability claims have any basis in fact, but hey, whatever...

    Here's what I don't understand. I don't like pickup trucks, so I don't bother visiting any truck forums here. Never have. Why would I? Just to tell people I don't like trucks? You don't like cars that are small, ugly, and/or European.

    OK, thanks for visiting.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,359
    edited January 2011
    Here's what I don't understand. I don't like pickup trucks, so I don't bother visiting any truck forums here. Never have. Why would I? Just to tell people I don't like trucks?

    I wrote this in another forum with respect to BMWs, but I think it addresses the situation here as well:

    I have a Jeep TJ and I never post snotty comments on the Hummer or Land Rover boards. My TJ does what I want it to do and I don't need to justify my choice. Ditto for my Mazdaspeed3. I leave the guys in the GTI, MCS, Si, and WRX boards to their own devices. Again, why bother them? And as for my X3 and 3er, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to troll the Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, or MB boards. What's the point? The same goes for my Speed Triple. However, there always seems to be a few non-BMW owners who just have to yell "Mine's bigger!" in the Bimmer topics.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    i'm an owner of a new body g35x (not 37) and at the time they announced the g25 i was excited but since reading the stat lines on the car -mpg, performance, HP, and lack of manual it kind of confuses me a bit- I mean they should of put a turbo 4 in the car with stick 250 hp for that price -- or give it a v4/v6 that gets 30 mpg, for me this is a good looking car-- it turns and breaks well- the base 3 series has more hp and if you can find a base one with a 6speed it sounds like a better deal-- plus with the manual your looking at more power and more fun while in the same price range.

    i also think the selective editing gets old certainly when good points are being made- like why is the TSX in this category again but the Max is not?? same price range and fwd only difference is Acura vs Nissan nameplate.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    Well, most of the time, we go on manufacturer specification. They call it a midsize sedan? OK, we do too. They call it a large sedan? We do too.

    I think you might find the conversation in our mainstream large sedans discussion interesting, as the interior measurements of the Maxima are smaller than the Altima. Would love your perspective there.

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  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited January 2011
    Personally, I think the G25 is being targeted at IS250 buyers - namely, young upwardly mobile females looking to enter the "luxury" market. These buyers don't care about HP or manual transmissions. They're looking for styling and amenities.

    The TSX belongs here because, with the 6MT at least, it is arguably one of the sportiest, most fun-to-drive cars in this category. I actually think it epitomizes the ELLPS segment right now. If you've never driven it, you just cannot imagine how the numbers don't tell the story of how the sum is greater than the parts. I have driven very few cars where every part is in harmony with every other part. The engine, transmission, steering, switchgear, green house - it's just a joy to spend time with. It's not without faults, of course, but they disappear once you're rolling. It's like a symphony - seriously. I'll always remember mine as one of my favorites.
  • i am concerned with the G37 tranny issue, and from what I have been reading the G25 is not having these problems., that's why I was considering the 25. Also, my other option is a CPO G35X, since they don't have the 7 speed tranny.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    belongs here despite the fact that it is FWD (or as many call it, Wrong Wheel Drive). I thought the total package was much better overall than the MINI Cooper S (6MT) I test drove before it. I love how the suspension is tuned. I'm a die hard manual transmission guy & actually really like the way our TSX's automatic performs. Upshifts are smooth & crisp. Downshifts come when you want them too. Driving in M mode, the transmission WILL NOT upshift at the redline unless you select the next gear. It is also the most ENTRY LEVEL of the ELLPS. You can seriously own a TSX Tech for under $30K. Nobody else in this segment can touch that price.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    ... the Saab 9-5? Is that considered a ELLPS?

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, but the upcoming 9-5 SportCombi is actually a decent-looking wagon.

    image

    IMO it's better-looking than the TSX wagon.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    one of those bad boys loaded up is well over $50K. That is NOT entry level by any sense of this board.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    What exactly is the price ceiling then?

    Consider:

    A BMW 335i xDrive with options exceeds $55K.
    An Audi A4 can exceed $51K.
    A C-class (non-AMG) can also exceed $51K.

    Granted, the base price starts higher than the others (at $38,525, according to their website) but it's relatively well-equipped.
  • To me, the price ceiling would be $45K for a car equipped with typical options and navigation system for a luxury car. You know, leather, moonroof, xenon, heated seats, climate control, upgraded audio, auto-dimming mirrors, power seat and memory, those kind of things. So most Japanese ones qualify even if it's G37 or IS350, but not the German ones because they are too expensive. I would consider 9-5 to be in this segment too.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    Also isn't the entry level car in the Saab lineup, that would be the 9-3. I'll have to check, but I think the 9-5 competes with the 5 series & E class.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    +1

    9-5 is too big and not entry-level.
  • Agree. Didn't know that it's almost as long as a Caravan. (Slight exaggeration, but it's definitely way bigger than any car in this category)
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    carguy and lawman.. the TSX i think its a great car for the money but luxury and performance are key factors to consider-- this is the same car sold overseas as the accord - they put leather and chrome in the car here and call it an acura-- msrp ranges from 30k to 39k (yes for a tsx with nav and a V6) and with deals i'm sure you can get a 6speed manual for around 28k which is a great price for a car like this. I have not driven the new tsx but the last generation with the best manual on the planet was a joy - but performance in the current model do not match prev generations as this car has become a little bloated. The base sonada comes with 200 hp and you can get a 275hp turbo 4 for 25k that gets 33mpg highway- you would love to see acura "advance" a bit before the whole line becomes saab or volvo.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    couldn't agree with you more about the TSX and Acura as a whole!

    I do have to say that of the current Acura line-up, the TSX is the only vehicle I could see getting and the only one that I could tolerate the shield grill on. Let's hope Acura gets rid of that styling choice in the next generations of their vehicles!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    edited January 2011
    . . .but the last generation with the best manual on the planet was a joy. . .

    Still is for me -- the TSX manual is really fine. If the car put the power down via the rear wheels and had a 2 or 2.5 litre diesel I'd keep it until they put me in a home.

    As it is, I still haven't seen anything I like enough better to go for it. A Jetta or Golf TDI are possibilities, but I really enjoy the stone solid reliability of a Honda product.

    The transmission clicks nicely into each gear and is certainly the best one I've used since my MGB. Even though the B's tansmission lacked a synchronized first gear, the linkage had absolutely zero play in it and sat right on top of the transmission -- good times. The two Miatas and the 240Z I drove many miles had lots of good features, but the transmissions weren't the equal of the TSX or the B.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    the honda product reliability cant argue with that- and good to hear they didnt fuss with the tranny. Rare manual transmission driver, good job
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,458
    While the TSX V6 with Tech does go into the far reaches of the upper $30K range, they don't sell well & Acura puts big incentives on them to sell. The majority of TSXs out there are 4cyl.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,111
    edited January 2011
    i'm sure thats the case with the 6 --. Acura should invest some money in the line- drop the 6 , clean up the grill, make a coupe?, and throw another 50 plus HP (or more) into a turbo 4, how about a 6speed auto. while keeping weight down..right now its a 4cyl pulling 3500 lbs with just 200hp and 170lbs.. might be nice to sit in but its not a performer in its current form (certainly if ordered with an 5 speed auto). sorry edmunds this current car does not meet ELLPS no matter what acura says on its press releases.
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