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The IS cars are smaller then their competitor which is a negative for me.
When it comes to Business read, my top read is NUTZ, by Herb Keller.
Check out this headline: "Knowledge Doubling Every 12 Months, Soon to be Every 12 Hours"!
While you're at it, check out any number of sources on the subject line "Moore's law": The observation that the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit has doubled approximately every two years.
"Buckminster Fuller created the “Knowledge Doubling Curve”; he noticed that until 1900 human knowledge doubled approximately every century. By the end of World War II knowledge was doubling every 25 years. Today things are not as simple as different types of knowledge have different rates of growth. For example, nanotechnology knowledge is doubling every two years and clinical knowledge every 18 months. But on average human knowledge is doubling every 13 months. According to IBM, the build out of the “internet of things” will lead to the doubling of knowledge every 12 hours."
OK, so where oh where is this going?
This is going to the subject of why the refresh cycles of cars (German ones at least) seems to be (especially for Audi and BMW) 8 years.
Sure there are "mid-cycle" refreshes, but often what happens is some minor styling tweaks, perhaps an MPG increase and certainly an increase in "content" -- but, often content increases annually (sometimes for a bump in price) anyway, or at least there is a rejiggering of option package features.
What if Apple came out with a truly new phone once every 8 years? What if Lenovo or Dell only coughed up a new PC or server even as long as every 4 years? There are numerous other examples across many products and brands that would literally just drop dead if they didn't substantially change (one likes to think enhance and improve) their products much more frequently than 8 or 4 or even 2 years.
Given current technology advancements, check that, given the speed (and frequency) of technology advancements how is it that several significant car manufacturers only really offer more than evolutionary changes every 8-years?
And while incremental changes continue in years 2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8, it is -- as far as I can tell -- literally impossible to upgrade your year 2 version with year 6 features, for any realistic sum of money (and in some cases it is less money to replace your 5 year old BMW with a new one than even dream of [analogy] pulling out the old SIMM chip and replacing it with a new one.)
So much of our cars DNA is based on software and a circuit board, why not allow the customer who wants to pony up the funds to upgrade his/her car's "infotainment" system for the one found in a newer version of his A4 or 5 series?
Is the only reason to not support an upgrade path the desire to sell new cars? Why can you keep your 20 year old aircraft current with the latest and greatest avionics, but your can't upgrade your 2 year old car's 3G wi-fi to 4G LTE for love nor money?
And the refresh cycle at 8-years? Really? Why does it take 8 years between "versions" of these cars? That time frame seems to me to be based on the past, not the currently reality.
I think it is time for the refresh cycle to be shortened -- I'd say, based on where things stand today, cutting the cycle in half would pretty much be a catch up move, not a pull ahead move.
The days of rendering umpteen versions of a new design in clay, destroying them and doing it all over again, are inefficient -- so much so that if anyone is actually still doing this, it would have to be almost literally ineffective.
I've seen some very impressive 3D-printing demonstrations that would seem to eliminate such by-gone days' practices -- the model upgrade can be dreamed up, coded and the printer turned on; model change costs can be slashed as can the time from thought to manufacture to market. No way 8-years is required to recoup the development costs.
Computer controlled machines can be changed to produce new body stampings, etc and every day it is not impossible to believe some engineer somewhere has figured out yet another tweak to improve both power and MPG out of the internal combustion engine -- to say nothing of alternative power-trains.
So, today's car is part mechanical, part computational, part software, part hardware -- I've kept my iPhone current, and so far each upgrade has been a real improvement. This technology is in our cars and it should be similarly updatable (the time frame, the cycle) and notable improvements should be regular and frequent -- not for free, mind you, but this 8-year cycle between serious product upgrades and updates is a practice that needs to be abandoned as soon as possible.
Smart phones are like 8 years old (if we count the iPhone as the first "modern" smartphone; a bit longer if you count earlier "windows mobile" phones). So of course the pace of evolution is much faster.
Auto volumes are also a lot lower. So it's too expensive to retool every year - unless you want to pay triple the cost. And a car represents a much higher fraction of the average owner's income, so it is not going to be replaced at the same pace as your phone.
Regarding software and automakers, this is a very new area for them. They are not that experienced in software at the consumer level. Recent security exploits show how far the automakers need to go to get to the same level of sophistication that Apple or Microsoft are at for their operating systems.
My suggestion was for a cycle of ~4-years, not 1. Also, the experience of driving the automobile is, as I noted, largely based on software and circuit boards. Engine bays can almost certainly house either the tried and true and tired 3.7L (Infiniti, e.g.) or a new cleaner, more efficient and more effective powerplant (make the new stuff available now, don't wait for a new body style, i.e.) -- the point is I was only partially speaking of "retooling." Moreover, now that machines make machines, the cost of retooling has decreased.
But again, my request is for a compression of time for updates to the brain, heart and lungs (so to speak) of the automobile; later, or less frequently if there is a retooling argument at play, the ritual "skin rejuvenation" and lipo-suction can be scheduled.
Let me give a few examples of "improvements" that probably don't required new sheet metal to deploy (and I'll use Audi as my poster-child since I am familiar with that brand):
o Audi will wait to offer LED headlights until the B9 model (A4), but the technology has been in the "C's" (A6) for a couple of years. I can think of no legitimate reason this feature was withheld from the market.
o Top-view monitor, as much, or more, of an advance as the rear-view camera, has been around for years -- Audi will wait for the B9 class debuts before they offer this.
o Driver configurable dash (EFT tech), it too will have to wait for the next generation car
o 4G LTE internet connectivity -- also will have to wait, and no upgrade path is offered for older 3G radios buried in the MMI's guts. This ought to be like opening up your laptop, pulling the hard drive and replacing it with an SSD (all for $150 or less) and enjoying the performance of a no-moving-parts storage system without having to buy an entirely new PC
The list of features that could make the car perform better, be safer, have better in-car entertainment, navigation and driver assist aids do not require much, if any, retooling, but they would allow owners to keep their car's systems, on a selective basis, as current as the owner wants.
Perhaps this has little to do with capability or cost (to both the mfgr and the customer), perhaps it really is a way to compel (or at least impel) "the market" (you and me, perhaps, at the micro level) to trade in, trade up or just "get new" -- perhaps the status quo is as we know it today, to imbue aftermarket providers (SEMA) with endless opportunities to sell their wares. Who knows perhaps the mfgrs and SEMA companies are in a symbiotic relationship (I doubt they actually collude, however).
It just frustrates the ever-lovin' crap out of me to be almost unable to keep my cars as current as possible. I'd like to be able to pick and choose some of this year's features and incorporate them into my otherwise fine 3-year old.
Seems like you can put new wheels and tires on your car with ease -- and W/T combinations can provide performance, safety and styling improvements -- I just believe we have reached a point in time and technology where we ought to be able to do the same thing with the "technology package" most cars come standard with, these days (speaking of the PREMIUM CLASS, of course, for this and other posts).
A really big clue, to me at least, as to the lost opportunity mfgrs are "enjoying" is revealed over on audiworld.com where members breathlessly enthuse about the arrival (yesterday or the day before) of their new cars, then, in the next sentence, conclude "Let the modifications begin."
Lost opportunity if you ax me.
Sort-of unrelated: I finally met my very first non-Apple employee who was wearing an Apple Watch. As she explained it to me, it sounded pretty cool -- until she told me, that if you wanted to do almost anything other than tell time, you had to have your iPhone within about 30-50 feet of your wrist; meaning, effectively, you have to carry the phone to get much, if any, use out of the watch's smart features. I'm hereby volunteering to have an iPhone implanted -- with a charging plug inconspicuously positioned somewhere on my torso. You see: I'm looking to have empty pockets -- while they're at it, they can implant my smart car-key too (Audi keys are about the size of a small potato, for god's sake); I'd rather the car key be included with the car as a stylish and functional Mont Blanc pen. Seriously, I'm starting to list from the weight of all of the "remotes" and do-dads and clips and cards I carry in my pockets. Somebody help me, somebody help us all.
The technology may "be there" to do new things sooner, but it's certainly not a no-cost proposition to continually re-tool parts as plug in replacements for previous ones. And it adds a lot of logistical complexity, too. Your headlight goes out - do you want one non-LED replacement, or two of the new LED equivalents? Let's stock duplicate sets of parts for all the different vintages and variants and versions of parts that are usable in the same basic model of car...etc. And the engineers retrofitting the LED lights to the existing Audi vehicles, the new LTE module to the existing vehicles, the new CPU to the existing vehicles - well they won't be working on designing the next model coming out in a few years then... unless you hire excess engineers for that...
The Apple watch (and Android Wear as well) are designed to be mostly peripheral devices to your phones. The battery technology just isn't there to have much power in the watch and have it still run all day.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I exited my C300 4 Matic Sport sedan build and started a new build. Only this time I built a C400 Sport 4Matic sedan. For about an extra $3500 with the same options, you get a 329 horsepower BiTurbo V6. I like the sound of that.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
The MB Tex is of high quality and the contrasting stitching make it look very upscale, BMW could learn a thing about that.
I think MB did a good job with the new C class, I haven't driven one yet, but will in the next year.
Sure, C-class looks better inside, but almost nobody buys 3-series for their interiors (if anything, those have always been deterrent rather lure). C-class is bigger, but that's not necessarily a good thing in ELLPS - those are not bough per pound or cubic foot.
It's a fine vehicle, if you like that sort of thing, but it is priced just silly. If you break down pricing to the car and the logo on the hood, it seems to me they charge for the star about double or triple of what BMW does (and admittedly BMW charges double or triple of what Acura does). In other words, the star on the hood costs literally thousands of dollars. I wonder how much dealers sell it for as a spare part
MB sometimes gives to dealers very substantial cash incentives once the novelty wears off and they are pretty good in hiding them from the public, so the brand stays protected, but even with that I'm not interested.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I do think that the Turbo V6 is a bit of overkill in the car, but it does compare favorably to a 335i or S4. Perhaps that's because the turbo 4 is so smooth and responsive in the C300. The C400 I drove came in at the mid $50s. The C300 in the low $50s. Pricewise, I don't think the Mercedes is disadvantaged at all against the 3 Series or A/S Audis similarly equipped.
The dealer that I talked to said he'd take 10% off MSRP off any C he had in stock. That was a couple of months ago. So, not sure if it's still the case, but that makes a very, very nice C Class price extremely competitive.
NYC...one of the ones I test drove was a metallic grey C300 sport with the lip spoiler and front chin spoiler. It had red leather sport seats and the open pore wood accoutrements....very sharp. It came in at the high $40s. Dealer said the same as you....about $3,500 more for the same car with the V6 bi-turbo. Personally, I'd save the $3,500 and stick with the 4 pot....and that's saying something about how good the turbo 4 is. In all frankness, I am growing to love all these Turbo 4s these days, regardless of manufacturer. They're really torquey and provide excellent MPG.
The local purveyor of MB's has over (20) 2013 C300 4 Matic all in the 13-17K mile range for about $32K. Not bad for a CPO unit IMHO.
And yes they all have MB Tex.
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2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Test drove several S4s this past weekend (couple used ones and a couple new ones, manual and automatic).
Also looked at a 328d wagon and a 428i gran coupe (x drive).
Wife and I both have historically been very pro-BMW. But ours have almost all been more "enthusiast-oriented" (wife had a wagon much like dino's (m-sport manual)), and neither of us are getting too excited about the current models. The 328d wagon I drove felt somewhat ordinary. To be fair, it wasn't as equipped as we would like, but nevertheless it had a sticker of $55k.
The 428i I really enjoyed and do love the body style for its looks and functionality. The one I drove was a sport-line and pretty well equipped for the low $50k's. If I really checked the boxes for all the options I would like, it gets to the high $50k's pretty quickly.
So having said all that, I'm probably leaning more toward an S4. It's actually quite the value in comparison to some of the other cars I looked at. I think they've done a good job updating the tech in the car to keep it up to date in that way for such an outgoing model. I find it endearing that a car that's been around for so many years is still holding its own against the competition (and then some). And, it's nice Audi still offers the choice of the manual and auto.
If I can hold out for awhile, I may still wait to see the new model.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
"I really like your car, sir"...what a Gentleman!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
C300 Sport with Lighting Package, Rear Spoiler, Premium Package, 4matic, Backup Camera, & Blind Spot Assist - MSRP $48,310 (Black/Black MB Text)
C400 4matic with Lighting Package, Spoiler, Blind Spot Assist, Backup Camera - MSRP $51,625 (Black/Black MB Text)
$3,315 difference
Like @robr2 said, pretty much every C on the lot here in the northeast is going to have MB Text.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
@nyccarguy - I'm with you that the sport package design elements and wheels add a lot to the overall aesthetic.
Of course, when I was looking at the S4 and 428i this past weekend, we went right by a MB dealer and I decided not to stop and look at the C-class. So not sure what that says. I suppose I appreciate the look of the car, but not sure it's a fit for me.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I was driving into the office today and made an attempt (1/2 hour commute) to note the age of the driver of every Mercedes I saw. I only saw E's and S's, but I did see a double digit number. I did not make any attempt to categorize by gender or apparent ethnicity. My memory says I saw only two ethnic groups represented "black and white" -- and of course two genders.
What struck me was the apparent fact that the E's and S's were all AWD versions and were all driven by what certainly appeared to me to be people beyond their 50's. Is this observation in any way statistically significant? Probably not, but it could be, at least, an interesting data-point. I drive through mostly upper-middle income neighborhoods on my commute, FWIW.
Before you think I've gone off some rail here, I was having a conversation with a friend about cars and the subject of Cadillac came up -- his comment was that they remain cars that attract "mature" owners, retired folk, apparently in his view.
The article above about the efforts of the new Cadillac President to change the behavior (mentality) of dealers made me think he was onto something. Cadillac dealers don't act like Audi, BMW and Mercedes dealers -- and they still paint prices on the windshields of the cars on their lots (I make it a practice to avoid dealers who paint prices on the windshield of the cars on their lot, I fear them, frankly.)
My perception is that BMW has the youngest drivers of the German Premium Crowd, closely followed by Audi (but that may be because of the Q5's success -- and that it would appear Q5's have a relatively young owner-set.) Audi, too, with the A3/S3 may be trolling for ever younger owners.
But, that still leaves me with the observation -- this morning -- that the E and S class Mercs were AWD and all driven by, apparently, Baby Boomers, current Xer's and Millennial's weren't participating this AM, at least.
Here I am 64, driving an S4 -- I guess I should be in what -- an A6 or CTS or perhaps a 5 series or should it be an XTS Cadillac. Wondering what, if any, studies of the age of owners exists -- with all the focus on Millennials and away from us Boomers, these days, it would seem to be some valuable data.
Ever notice the current crop of Buick ads wherein the "little ol' lady" remarks "Oh MY!" when she is told she's in a new Buick. Is that a nod toward the past or is that a convoluted way of suggesting that new Buicks will be appreciated by those of a certain maturity and perhaps even attractive to them?
Wondering if part of the issue confronting some car mfgrs, could be they need to make their cars seem to be desired by Millennials.
Maybe on the way home, I'll count BMW drivers.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150810/OEM01/308109966/infiniti-engine-making-isnt-a-job-its-a-craft
Age of buyers
BMW 50.9
MB 54.6
Cadillac 59.5
Audi 50.3
Infiniti 49.4
and the winner for youngest
Land Rover 47.9
Dodge 48.6
and oldest
Lincoln 61.0
Buick 60.3
Age of the average buyer is 52.
MB and Infiniti have also invested in a joint plant in Mexico to build compact vehicles.
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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
YMMV.
I don't agree that Hyun/Kia has the best looking cars out there but they are good looking and affordable and it seems that Mr. Shreyer has been worth a small fortune for the Korean auto maker.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I was quite surprised to see the average age of BMW buyers was "THAT OLD!" But, you see, I've been going to the BMW Store here in Cincinnati at least since the mid 1980's, and my impression is that the show room is full of shoppers who are "really really young" -- and I have always presumed well-to-do. I went the Audi route when all my friends went with BMW's because #1 the Audi brand had quattro and #2, I always felt you could buy the next higher line of Audi for the same price as the lower line BMW, so I thought the value and performance leader was always Audi (you could say, too, I guess, I was, ahem, more frugal than my BMW lovin' friends).
But back to the math -- an average age of 60 does not mean the majority of buyers are over 60. There isn't enough information to know, if all you know is the "average." Mean, Mode, Median, Range and while were at it Standard Deviation, on the other hand would paint a much clearer picture of the number of "old timers" buying a particular automotive brand.
I have one more data point -- every Corvette that I have seen FOR YEARS seems to be piloted by a driver who either looks like Bill Clinton or Bill Cosby (speaking ONLY of a certain appearance that suggests age, not lasciviousness.)
But the car seems to be marketed to a much younger person, if you have ever seen an ad or brochure.
Force of habit, I guess.
Yet, even if the allegation that Premium Car owners chintz out on the gas they put in the FREE loaner cars, the engine management computer probably does do a decent job of preventing any real damage.
I can't remember the last time I put anything but premium gas in ANY car I was driving -- really, force of habit. I would liken this to having a kid with a peanut allergy, I would just automatically avoid anything I thought might have even heard the word peanut.
Sad indictment of folks if they really do put regular in the S4 or A6 or X3 they have just been loaned.
What a world, what a world.