What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

texases · January 2016

According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."

texases · January 2016

And more of the same from Cars.com:
https://www.cars.com/articles/used-vw-diesel-prices-continue-to-decline--1420682860308/

ruking1 · January 2016

Well then, the VW buyback option would probably yield the highest prices! Pre "diesel gate" the 2003 VW Jetta TDI would have cost 6.42 cents cpmd: depreciation! So that would be my target (or better) for the 2009 Jetta TDI and the 2012 VW Touareg TDI.

So ultimately it doesn't seem to be as bad as some to most people would like to make it out to be! But I just recently got a two-year good to go certification on the 2009 TDI.

stever · January 2016

"It's especially critical for VW to figure out what it needs to do with the crisis and get it behind them," he said.

Caldwell said she doesn't think VW can truly craft a new image until the diesel fix is approved and announced. The effort has taken too long, she said, even longer than the crises which hit Toyota and General Motors in recent years.

"That there isn't a fix yet is shocking," Caldwell said, adding that the issue continues to linger."

Volkswagen burnishing the brand amid scandal (timesfreepress.com)

houdini1 · January 2016

carboy21 said:
fortune.com/2015/09/16/tesla-lithium-gigafactory-nevada/

Pollute Nevada so that California can have their Tesla cars .

I guess diesel mfgs. are lucky that lithium is not necessary for their mfg. process. They would NEVER get approval to mine lithium in Nevada.

People who buy "electric or hybrid" cars should be suing because the true environmental damage done due to their mfg. is not disclosed. Not to mention that old dirty coal used to make their electricity. If it is good for the goose.....

carboy21 · January 2016

houdini1 said:

carboy21 said:
fortune.com/2015/09/16/tesla-lithium-gigafactory-nevada/

Pollute Nevada so that California can have their Tesla cars .
I guess diesel mfgs. are lucky that lithium is not necessary for their mfg. process. They would NEVER get approval to mine lithium in Nevada.

People who buy "electric or hybrid" cars should be suing because the true environmental damage done due to their mfg. is not disclosed. Not to mention that old dirty coal used to make their electricity. If it is good for the goose.....

The sheer hypocrisy of it all beggars belief. Even the motorheads here on Edmunds support the hypocrisy.
Mining Lithium the most volatile metal, pollute the environment . Its ok as long as it is in someones else's backyard. I HOPE a massive earthquake strikes California and slides it on into the ocean forever. Good riddance to bad rubbish

Lithium is corrosive and requires special handling to avoid skin contact. Breathing lithium dust or lithium compounds (which are often alkaline) initially irritate the nose and throat, while higher exposure can cause a buildup of fluid in the lungs, leading to pulmonary edema. The metal itself is a handling hazard because of the caustic hydroxide produced when it is in contact with moisture. Lithium is safely stored in non-reactive compounds such as naphtha.[134]

gagrice · January 2016

texases said:
And more of the same from Cars.com:
https://www.cars.com/articles/used-vw-diesel-prices-continue-to-decline--1420682860308/

Just like the Stock market, when prices are down you have a buying opportunity. From what I am reading the wholesale prices are down on the VW TDIs. That would make sense as a dealer would likely not be able to sell a vehicle that cannot pass smog in many states. For the less than one tenth of one percent that are upset with VW, they are likely to get shafted by a Toyota dealer on a trade-in.

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy the best vehicle I have ever owned and spend the thousand bucks VW is sending me.

gagrice · January 2016

I guess diesel mfgs. are lucky that lithium is not necessary for their mfg. process. They would NEVER get approval to mine lithium in Nevada.

I think China has the Lithium market under control. I don't know of any lithium mining in the USA. The largest known reserve of lithium is in Bolivia. A country we screwed over and hates US. I am skeptical of Elon Musk and his various enterprises. I have listened to his promises of a Tesla for the less wealthy for several years. Still all talk and no vehicles. I think he hopes to get Lithium from a NV mine?

carboy21 · January 2016

Elon Musk is a bleeding liberal and bossum buddy of Obama admin. He is ripping the US taxpayers off with billions in subsidies for his pie in the sky ventures.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

@carboy---do you really want gagrice to fall into the ocean?

Actually the faults in California are north-south for the most part, so gagrice won't fall into the ocean, he will slide closer to Los Angeles.

By the way, VW really did imply that their diesels were "clean", not "cleaner than other diesels". I dug up VW ads with children, dogs, balloons, little furry animals, parades of marching oil barrels that were being "saved" by the TDI.

VW laid it on really thick. I could see people being suckered into thinking they were driving a new green miracle.

ruking1 · January 2016

houdini1 said:

carboy21 said:
fortune.com/2015/09/16/tesla-lithium-gigafactory-nevada/

Pollute Nevada so that California can have their Tesla cars .
I guess diesel mfgs. are lucky that lithium is not necessary for their mfg. process. They would NEVER get approval to mine lithium in Nevada.

People who buy "electric or hybrid" cars should be suing because the true environmental damage done due to their mfg. is not disclosed. Not to mention that old dirty coal used to make their electricity. If it is good for the goose.....

TOTAL head scratcher!! ?? COAL is absolutely INTEGRAL to EV !! US can't have EV without COAL! In 2016, 39 % of the US electrical energy is supplied by coal! This is down from app 53% in 1997. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States 67% is still provided by fossilized fuel !!

Solar EV is totally anemic at .40 % ! In fact, that percentage is barely measurable! ( tad more than 1/3 of 1%) http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3

stever · January 2016

Lithium is kind of like some oil/gas deposits. It's all over the place, just need to figure out ways to extract it that are economical. (reviewjournal.com)

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Not in forward-thinking, progressive, smart California. We only use 6.4% coal...the rest of the country uses 39% coal. There goes your "hypocrisy" theory for CA at least. You could cite Colorado for hypocrisy, though, as it uses 58% coal for energy needs in those trendy Greenie cities along the eastern and western slopes.

ruking1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
@carboy---do you really want gagrice to fall into the ocean?

Actually the faults in California are north-south for the most part, so gagrice won't fall into the ocean, he will slide closer to Los Angeles.

By the way, VW really did imply that their diesels were "clean", not "cleaner than other diesels". I dug up VW ads with children, dogs, balloons, little furry animals, parades of marching oil barrels that were being "saved" by the TDI.

VW laid it on really thick. I could see people being suckered into thinking they were driving a new green miracle.

What a load that is on the load you are emphasizing! I'm with carboy 21 oon this one!

..."buy a Passat TDI , 2 weeks before the scandal hit the news. I interpreted Clean Diesel as cleaner then the previous diesels. No time was I deluded that it is a pollution free clean car. Either I was stupid or I have English comprehension problem"...

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

So you are a database of two then? I'm not convinced. I can offer two TDI owners who think otherwise.

gagrice · January 2016

By the way, VW really did imply that their diesels were "clean", not "cleaner than other diesels". I dug up VW ads with children, dogs, balloons, little furry animals, parades of marching oil barrels that were being "saved" by the TDI.

Clean is an ambiguous term and rarely means actually clean, as in "Clean Room" clean. Which is about the closest to Clean manufacturing we have attained. I always remind people their Prius does not attain a clean image over the gas counterpart until it passes 100k miles. There is NO such thing as Clean transportation, including walking. What you pick up on your walk could kill you or someone close to you when you take your shoes off at home.

Over the last two years and 27,000 miles I have saved 800 gallons of fuel compared to my Sequoia SUV. That makes the Touareg TDI far cleaner than the gas counter part I sold.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

It's a very good argument to say your TDI saves barrels of oil--cdan't argue with that--- but it's just spin to declare it "cleaner" than a Sequoia. You have to measure emissions per gallon burned.

By your definition, the "cleanest" SUV ever made would be one that isn't driven.

ruking1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
So you are a database of two then? I'm not convinced. I can offer two TDI owners who think otherwise.

You know it's really hard to believe that you think that we are the only two sane people on the face of the planet!

gagrice · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
So you are a database of two then? I'm not convinced. I can offer two TDI owners who think otherwise.

All I can say is your friends are not that bright. It does not take any kind of scientific knowledge to compare the various vehicles. I don't know of any diesel that is as clean as an EV while driving. And most hybrids are going to be cleaner while driving. NOx and PM have always been the issue with diesels. The fact that CA allows over 1 million semis to put millions of miles in our state with regs allowing 125 times as much NOx, should tell you how concerned CARB really is about NOx.

ruking1 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
It's a very good argument to say your TDI saves barrels of oil--cdan't argue with that--- but it's just spin to declare it "cleaner" than a Sequoia. You have to measure emissions per gallon burned.

By your definition, the "cleanest" SUV ever made would be one that isn't driven.

Again I'm not sure what is hard to understand? Using the (like model) MB GLK 350/250BT 21 mpg/ 36 mpg @ 27,000 miles = 1,286 gal vs 750 gal?

So IF hear you correctly, you're saying that burning 536 gal MORE is cleaner than burning 536 gal less? From that, perhaps we should ask the broader question, why are we even trying to save gasoline in the first place ?

I can't even make this stuff up!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

gagrice said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
So you are a database of two then? I'm not convinced. I can offer two TDI owners who think otherwise.
All I can say is your friends are not that bright. It does not take any kind of scientific knowledge to compare the various vehicles. I don't know of any diesel that is as clean as an EV while driving. And most hybrids are going to be cleaner while driving. NOx and PM have always been the issue with diesels. The fact that CA allows over 1 million semis to put millions of miles in our state with regs allowing 125 times as much NOx, should tell you how concerned CARB really is about NOx.

Well one's an FBI agent, so I think he knows a bit about fraud. The other couple conscientiously recycles, installed solar panels on their house, and have a large organic garden. They are hoppin' mad at VW, for good reason.

I suspect if we filled a hall with recent TDI owners and polled them, you two would be soundly out-voted.

Of course, in your defense you didn't buy the TDIs because they were touted as "clean" (by your own admission). So I can see your point of view that you are not offended by VWs deceptive advertising, because you weren't a victim of that particular form of deception.

fintail · January 2016

The FBI one would also know how to play the system, no doubt - we all know how much money that and similar groups inhale. Claim offense when money becomes a possibility. That's kind of a fraud too.

If they actually thought a form of personal transport was literally "clean", it makes me sad for society. Knowing the Bay area, these are likely fairly affluent people too. I am rolling my eyes so much at some of these claims, it is audible.

Was VW deceptive no more than people were deceiving themselves, looking to justify their purchases? "Clean".

Mr_Shiftright said:

gagrice said:

Well one's an FBI agent, so I think he knows a bit about fraud. The other couple conscientiously recycles, installed solar panels on their house, and have a large organic garden. They are hoppin' mad at VW, for good reason.

I suspect if we filled a hall with recent TDI owners and polled them, you two would be soundly out-voted.

Of course, in your defense you didn't buy the TDIs because they were touted as "clean" (by your own admission). So I can see your point of view that you are not offended by VWs deceptive advertising, because you weren't a victim of that particular form of deception.

ruking1 · January 2016

gagrice said:

texases said:
And more of the same from Cars.com:
https://www.cars.com/articles/used-vw-diesel-prices-continue-to-decline--1420682860308/
Just like the Stock market, when prices are down you have a buying opportunity. From what I am reading the wholesale prices are down on the VW TDIs. That would make sense as a dealer would likely not be able to sell a vehicle that cannot pass smog in many states. For the less than one tenth of one percent that are upset with VW, they are likely to get shafted by a Toyota dealer on a trade-in.

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy the best vehicle I have ever owned and spend the thousand bucks VW is sending me.

Yes, I'm at the stage of my life where I actually want to own less cars, not buy more!? But the truth: it's a great time to buy a used/ new TDI ! So if VW really makes it worth my while, I might be tempted to go to a 2016/2017 VW Touareg TDI. If not, I'm very happy with what I have !

I just received the VW letter & registered online for the 2012 VW Touareg TDI VW customer care package! ($500. each debit/dealer card/s & Road Assist!) I will have to go to the dealer again to register the package when I get it in the mail.

gagrice · January 2016

Well one's an FBI agent, so I think he knows a bit about fraud. The other couple conscientiously recycles, installed solar panels on their house, and have a large organic garden. They are hoppin' mad at VW, for good reason.

Not being one that is impressed by titles, I do question his investigative abilities. And I think you know what I think of people that waste energy and resources recycling most things. Both should be hopping mad at CARB for their poor system of testing emissions. I'm hopping mad that I had to pay for a tester to look at my exhaust to see if it was spewing pollutants. The electronics part only makes sure you have not disabled the emissions, HMMMM. It would seem it was a total waste of $50.

ruking1 · January 2016

Put me down in the " ripped off by EPA/ CARB" column for the ( fake) lack of bi annual emissions testing , masquerading as a real emissions test ! There is really no surprise why they didn't catch it ! TNow that is fraud @ the $50 to $75 level. It was more fair and honest when it was exempt . Again, why is it a surprise that Volkswagen took advantage of this FAKE emissions test?

andres3 · January 2016

texases said:
According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."

13.8% doesn't seem jaw dropping to me. Seems like a minor blip. And you only suffer resale loss if you actually sell your car. Otherwise, you haven't suffered any loss (using insurance speak here). How hypocritical of me.

andres3 · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
It's a very good argument to say your TDI saves barrels of oil--cdan't argue with that--- but it's just spin to declare it "cleaner" than a Sequoia. You have to measure emissions per gallon burned.

By your definition, the "cleanest" SUV ever made would be one that isn't driven.

I have to say that pollution per mile driven seems about 100% more relevant than pollution per gallon burned. A gallon is a meaningless measurement as it relates to pollution when burned. Since the purpose of a vehicle's existence is to get people from A to B, I see no spin in looking at pollution per mile traveled as the most relevant way to compare vehicles cleanliness.

This is why I advocate that safety ratings of roadways always be judged on fatalities or accidents per mile traveled. It is the great equalizer.

texases · January 2016

andres3 said:

texases said:
According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."
13.8% doesn't seem jaw dropping to me. Seems like a minor blip. And you only suffer resale loss if you actually sell your car. Otherwise, you haven't suffered any loss (using insurance speak here). How hypocritical of me.

So I can build an eyesore next to your house, cut your house's value by 13.8%, and you can't complain unless you sell?

andres3 · January 2016

texases said:

andres3 said:

texases said:
According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."
13.8% doesn't seem jaw dropping to me. Seems like a minor blip. And you only suffer resale loss if you actually sell your car. Otherwise, you haven't suffered any loss (using insurance speak here). How hypocritical of me.
So I can build an eyesore next to your house, cut your house's value by 13.8%, and you can't complain unless you sell?

Seems the banks and Wall Street are sheltered from complaints for plummeting housing values far more multiples than 14% due to their ill-advised loans to ill-advised deadbeats.

But two wrongs don't make a right. I suppose the neighbor could argue they'd agree to remove the eyesore when you put your house on the market for sale as a compromise?

ruking1 · January 2016

texases said:

andres3 said:

texases said:
According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."
13.8% doesn't seem jaw dropping to me. Seems like a minor blip. And you only suffer resale loss if you actually sell your car. Otherwise, you haven't suffered any loss (using insurance speak here). How hypocritical of me.
So I can build an eyesore next to your house, cut your house's value by 13.8%, and you can't complain unless you sell?

The truth: what you're saying is true, however it's a very poor analogy. So for example one is the case of the monster house on a postage stamp lot ! And yes, I can paint my house PURPLE! Now in California PUD's that's to most other things are all regulated, i.e.t, you give up a lot of rights. There are also other ways to make sure that a lot of people don't do weird things to their houses, but that's really not germane to diesels discussions.

In so far as cars are concerned, a lot of people crash the value of their cars, not taking care of it before they put it on the market. Tbey treated it like an appliance that needs to be taken to the dump!

So without a doubt, a car in 12 years and 180,000 miles requires a certain amount of care!

So in the case of TDI owners, it's really a case of more potential sellers than buyers! One thing that crashes prices of used cars is the fact that the 2015 auto sales was a total banner year exceeding 17.22 m units.( Siri) but then the WSJ puts down 17.47 M. http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
Another thing is diesel is @ $.93 wholesale with RBOB gas @ $ 1.03.

stever · January 2016

There's a few interesting stories and op eds this holiday Monday:

Volkswagen's diesel disaster set to worsen as shareholders prepare lawsuit (Mashable)

Weak EU tests for diesel emissions are ‘illegal’, say lawyers (theguardian.com)

Diesel As Dangerous As Asbestos, But Europe Looks The Other Way (Forbes)

stevedebi · January 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
@carboy---do you really want gagrice to fall into the ocean?

Actually the faults in California are north-south for the most part, so gagrice won't fall into the ocean, he will slide closer to Los Angeles.

...

What? A North/South fault means that the side to the west would fall into the ocean... assuming that part of it would go under. In reality, sliding north/south is generally what happens. Maybe that is what you meant.

stevedebi · January 2016

andres3 said:

texases said:
According to Autoweek:

"Wholesale prices down 13.8% and dropping

Prices for used Volkswagen diesels have accelerated their decline as the automaker's emissions scandal entered its second month with no definitive word from VW on its repair plans.

Moreover, the actual volume of used VW diesels sold at auction has plummeted, making it tough for analysts to get a clear sense of just how severely the scandal will hit the value of the affected cars."
13.8% doesn't seem jaw dropping to me. Seems like a minor blip. And you only suffer resale loss if you actually sell your car. Otherwise, you haven't suffered any loss (using insurance speak here). How hypocritical of me.

If there are fewer diesels at auction, that means people are not turning them in to dealers, i.e., they are holding on to them, and not worried about the VW scandal.

Ditto for me, we bought our 2014 Passat TDI based on the performance and MPG. I want them to fix it, of course, but ours isn't as bad as the non DEF diesel anyway. We planned to keep it a long time, and we still plan to do that.

ruking1 · January 2016

The 2009 TDI is @ 105,000 or app 17,500 miles per year (438 gal yr) 12 years @ this yearly rate should post 210,000 miles . Its' commute posts a consistent 40 mpg. So @ current prices ($1.99) fuel costs are approximately $73 per month or $ 870 per year. Cpmd:fuel=4.975 cents . We all love the way it runs!

To be truthful, I've have far more issues with the gas TLC's and other gassers, over diesels ! (like miles)

DEF is a total non issue, aa consumer! Some OEMs have hidden it away some just put it right out there, so available…

gagrice · January 2016

So I can build an eyesore next to your house, cut your house's value by 13.8%, and you can't complain unless you sell?

If you are concerned about such things happening, you do need to buy where it is not likely to happen. Such as a subdivision with good covenants. Or a place where the lots are all built on. There was a recent lawsuit here where the homeowners were complaining of smells from a chicken ranch. Contractor built 57 homes on 17 acres adjoining a large egg ranch. It was there when I went to high school with the daughter of the owner. Before a single home was built the egg ranch put up a sign warning of smells. I guess people did not think the wind would ever blow their direction. Needless to say the judge tossed the case out of court.

As with all purchases "Buyer Beware"

gagrice · January 2016

stever said:
There's a few interesting stories and op eds this holiday Monday:

Volkswagen's diesel disaster set to worsen as shareholders prepare lawsuit (Mashable)

Weak EU tests for diesel emissions are ‘illegal’, say lawyers (theguardian.com)

Diesel As Dangerous As Asbestos, But Europe Looks The Other Way (Forbes)

Well VW is in trouble now. One of the SLEAZIEST attorneys to ever walk the planet is after them. John Edwards.

fintail · January 2016

"Diesel As Dangerous As Asbestos" - there's an inflammatory clickbait headline if I've ever seen one.

stever · January 2016

lol, I started to doubly emphasize that the headline was from Forbes instead of The Guardian, figuring that some people would think the links were switched around.

Hadn't heard anything from Edwards in a long time. (Mashable)

Cheater chasing cheater?

gagrice · January 2016

fintail said:
"Diesel As Dangerous As Asbestos" - there's an inflammatory clickbait headline if I've ever seen one.

If diesel is as dangerous as asbestos, how does that stack up against gas vehicles that put out more Carcinogens?

Emission factors of particulate-bound Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAHs) including benzo(a)pyrene and, for the first time, the highly carcinogenic dibenzo(a,l)pyrene, dibenzo(a,e)pyrene, dibenzo(a,i)pyrene and dibenzo(a,h)pyrene have been determined in exhausts from two diesel- (DFVs) and two gasoline-fuelled light-duty vehicles (GFVs) operated in the Urban (AU), Rural Road (AR) and Motorway (AM) transient ARTEMIS driving cycles.

Furthermore, the study showed an increase in PAH emissions per km driving distance with increasing average speed for the GFVs with the opposite trend found for the DFVs. The GFVs generated particulate matter with higher PAH content than the DFVs in all three driving cycles tested with the highest concentrations obtained in the AR driving cycle.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231009004129

ruking1 · January 2016

Lol, it's even worse for gassers than diesels!! Gasser, gasser hybrid deniers will probably still deny!

elias · January 2016

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.

Michaell · January 2016

elias said:

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.

The new Cruze Diesel HB is intriguing to me, depending on the price. I've got a lease ending later this year, so I'm keeping my options open as to what I get next.

andres3 · January 2016

Michaell said:

elias said:

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.
The new Cruze Diesel HB is intriguing to me, depending on the price. I've got a lease ending later this year, so I'm keeping my options open as to what I get next.

If GM gets caught in a few years doing a similar cheat to VW's for diesel emissions, what do you think the odds are GM will give as much goodwill to customers as VW already has?

I put the odds in Vegas at 100 to 1 that GM's goodwill would be as good as VW's.

Michaell · January 2016

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

elias said:

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.
The new Cruze Diesel HB is intriguing to me, depending on the price. I've got a lease ending later this year, so I'm keeping my options open as to what I get next.
If GM gets caught in a few years doing a similar cheat to VW's for diesel emissions, what do you think the odds are GM will give as much goodwill to customers as VW already has?

I put the odds in Vegas at 100 to 1 that GM's goodwill would be as good as VW's.

If GM cheats the regs, I would agree that the goodwill would be less than VW.

But, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Any indication that the current Cruze diesel is cheating?

carboy21 · January 2016

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

elias said:

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.
The new Cruze Diesel HB is intriguing to me, depending on the price. I've got a lease ending later this year, so I'm keeping my options open as to what I get next.
If GM gets caught in a few years doing a similar cheat to VW's for diesel emissions, what do you think the odds are GM will give as much goodwill to customers as VW already has?

I put the odds in Vegas at 100 to 1 that GM's goodwill would be as good as VW's.
If GM cheats the regs, I would agree that the goodwill would be less than VW.

But, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Any indication that the current Cruze diesel is cheating?

Cheating is besides the point. Cost difference between an equivalent gasser cruze and diesel cruz would kill its sales.At least for me. Gas is 47 cents a gallon in Michigan Why buy diesel

Michaell · January 2016

carboy21 said:

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

elias said:

- Who else is looking forward to the 2017 Cruze Hatchback Diesel, or at least the new Cruze Diesel. With stickshift !?!?

- VW TDI owners ought not feel bad about being duped by VW. Only engineers and scientists and other automotive buffs could have realized that VWs emissions claims were impossible for their post-2006 diesel vehicles.
The new Cruze Diesel HB is intriguing to me, depending on the price. I've got a lease ending later this year, so I'm keeping my options open as to what I get next.
If GM gets caught in a few years doing a similar cheat to VW's for diesel emissions, what do you think the odds are GM will give as much goodwill to customers as VW already has?

I put the odds in Vegas at 100 to 1 that GM's goodwill would be as good as VW's.
If GM cheats the regs, I would agree that the goodwill would be less than VW.

But, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Any indication that the current Cruze diesel is cheating?
Cheating is besides the point. Cost difference between an equivalent gasser cruze and diesel cruz would kill its sales.At least for me. Gas is 47 cents a gallon in Michigan Why buy diesel

Wasn't that .47/gal a promotional thing for the weekend?

And yes, the cost differential between gas and diesel Cruze will factor into my thinking. Diesel is about 10 cents more per gallon than RUG at the moment here in Colorado. But, I suspect the price upcharge for a diesel Cruze will be much more than what I could save over the 3 year lease term.

ruking1 · January 2016

Leasing is the most expensive way to use a (gasser/diesel, etc) car. So, unless the terms dial OUT the "diesel" premium, the increased cost almost makes NO sense for the time & more importantly mileage !

So really, it's a shop the best deal (terms/lowest per mile driven ) sort of scenario.

On the other hand...

With ULSD @ $1.99

RUG @ $2.27 PUG @ $ 2.49

It is an absolute no-brainer with diesel.! ( Fuel prices WILL vary ) TMI !

So for my anecdotal scenario, we are putting approximately 16,000 miles per year on the MB GLK 250. @ 21 MPG PUG =762 gal vs 36 MPG ULSD = 444 gal. 318 gal/ $1,013 yr saved ($1,897-$884) Over 12 years= $12,156.!

The easiest way to put it: would one rather pay 5.525 cents (cpmd:fuel), or 11.85625 cents? The majority of folks are making the case for the HIGHER figure!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Popular Mechanics Says Diesel Cars are Dead in the USA

stever · January 2016

"The Volkswagen emissions scandal is still rumbling on like a vast, sooty mess, and plenty of pundits are predicting the end for compression ignition in smaller vehicles. Not Audi, though, with the president of Audi USA, Scott Keogh, saying last week in Detroit that he thinks TDI still has a future over here, albeit probably one limited to a relatively small part of the market."

Audi Chief Thinks Diesel Has a Future in the U.S. (Car and Driver)

stever · January 2016

"Robert Bosch, a key supplier of diesel components to Volkswagen, has gone public with a vigorous defense of the technology, even as VW remains embroiled in a dispute with U.S. regulators over the steps it must take to fix its diesel emissions systems."

Bosch says diesel has a future in the U.S. (Automotive News)

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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