What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

Michaell

ruking1 said:

To me, arguably part of a very small niche market, a 70# ft of torque advantage (all things being equal) is HUGE!! Indeed on the gasoline side it's like a supercharger vs NONE!

On that point, I will agree with you. The person who was driving the CX-5 complained about the lack of "oomph". I suspect the turbo-diesel, especially here at altitude, would address that.

ruking1

Daughter & SIL did NOT like the Subaru's response! (CVT) We had a three way laugh about this.

To me, one metric is/are 32 to 40 mpg. Another is/are # ft torque 236 to 550. The next is/are a tank/s that allows 550 miles to 998 miles cruising distance. Lastly, effortless operation @ altitude. ( mine needs to be good @ 7,300 ft +.)

gagrice

Mr_Shiftright said:

ruking1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

ruking1 said:

If enough monies are coming from other sources, there are a lot of great things about living in smaller cities/towns, albeit in tax "free" states like NV. Living in taxable states like CA (up to 13%) is a bit, to a lot tricker to live more "tax free", but it's done every day.

California does not have the highest taxes in the USA however, and in some areas, it's nearer the bottom. But overall, it is highly taxed, perhaps 4th or 5th. Depends what you are talking about. Upcoming fuel tax increases won't help the ICEs, that's for sure.

I have no idea what Afghanistan and China have to do with the public's resistance to fracking in the U.S. Seems quite off topic here. The subject we were exploring was future fuel prices.

Again, I'm ok with your opinion/s, but I didn't say CA has the highest state tax rate, even as you are implying that I did say that! !! However, according to TurboTax 2016 it DOES!? So pony up the states with higher than 13.3% ! Till then, you are w...?

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Taxes-101/States-with-the-Highest-and-Lowest-Taxes/INF23232.html

I've gone over more than once about The China rare metals mining opportunities in Afghanistan for the new "environmental nirvana" !

Slow diesel in news day. The MB GLK 250 BT is in the shop for a possible front differential leak. They gave us a loaner, 2017 MB C300 4 door sedan black on black, with less than 2,200 miles on the clock. (Pug) 4 cylinder also runs the MB E 300!?

That's just income tax, not all taxes. CA is not the state with the highest overall taxes.

We do have a rare earths mine, though

Yes we have one of the biggest REE reserves in CA. Too bad we can't process it here. Too bad Molycorp could not compete with the Chinese. Too bad they went bankrupt taking my stock with them. Mt Pass will likely keep it's 12% of the World's known reserves of Rare Earth Elements. Why dirty our environment when we can let others dirty theirs?

PS
Our property taxes may not be the highest in CA. But I pay 3 times as much, $7800 this year, than I will on my newer home in Nevada. No NV state income tax, Gas tax much less making diesel $2.32 vs $2.75 here. Of course most other things are less as well. Electricity San Diego is 43 cents a KWH, Pahrump is 11 cents. Water averaged $93 per month last year. Pahrump average is $30 per month. It all adds up when you are on a fixed income. Of course the crooks in Sacramento could care less about the retirees. And they are leaving in droves to be replaced by the homeless and those requiring welfare to survive. I won't be shutting out the lights.

gagrice

Michaell said:

ruking1 said:

I'm not sure how long this will last, but evidently the redesigned ( for 2017) Mazda's CX–5 is one of the hottest compact CUV sellers. A (2018) TDI version would piggyback an already hot trend & seller.

Nothing will ever outsell the Honda CR-V. The CX-5, while very nice - I took a test drive of one a few weeks ago - will only appeal to a niche market. The availability of a diesel may widen that appeal.

We can only hope.

I think the RAV4 outsold the CRV last month by a good number. And nearly matched it YTD. Of course without diesel neither of them hold ANY appeal for me.

ruking1

Mazda has been a niche company for a very long time! The TDI option will in all likelihood not broadly widen its brand appeal from units sold point of view. Will it sell more units ? I would think & hope so!

fintail

Nobody wants to live near a REE mine, and no entity should be trusted with keeping one clean.

My mom's property taxes are about 1/10th as much as the same house in a nice area in Seattle, as the house is worth 10% as much. That might explain the Pahrump/CA tax differential. Funny thing, in this higher tax county, fuel is actually cheaper. Low cost/low amenity areas have their pros and cons.

gagrice said:

Yes we have one of the biggest REE reserves in CA. Too bad we can't process it here. Too bad Molycorp could not compete with the Chinese. Too bad they went bankrupt taking my stock with them. Mt Pass will likely keep it's 12% of the World's known reserves of Rare Earth Elements. Why dirty our environment when we can let others dirty theirs?

PS
Our property taxes may not be the highest in CA. But I pay 3 times as much, $7800 this year, than I will on my newer home in Nevada. No NV state income tax, Gas tax much less making diesel $2.32 vs $2.75 here. Of course most other things are less as well. Electricity San Diego is 43 cents a KWH, Pahrump is 11 cents. Water averaged $93 per month last year. Pahrump average is $30 per month. It all adds up when you are on a fixed income. Of course the crooks in Sacramento could care less about the retirees. And they are leaving in droves to be replaced by the homeless and those requiring welfare to survive. I won't be shutting out the lights.

ruking1

"Desireable city/urban living" really gets down to this: Disneyland type surroundings, 1.5 miles radius WALK able with most to all "high end amenities". Bikes are great. Even this requires a car for many errands, situations, etc. But stolen bike rates are high & almost not documented. Cars are daily targets of smash windows & grab. I have read there are app 18,000 incidents per year. Getting rid of a car will even trigger another tax on a car substitute like Uber/Lyft, Taxi, etc. rent for a car space (if one is SO lucky) is upwards of $250 per mo.

Currently in San Francisco, CA, if a house is in the center of this "zone", we are talking $1.5 M for an old 2 to 3 bedroom 1 to 2 bath place, that needs extensive renovation/ remodel. Contractors will bump up their bid a minimum of 40% because of the higher costs in San Francisco. Taxes are 1.4 % not including line items $$. 2 B to 3B /1 to 2b rentals are $3,400 per mo. Happy browsing!

andres3

Eureka, CA! That's the answer if you want to live in CA more cheaply and somewhere that isn't a dry desert. It's actually green up there, and good homes for under a half million dollars.

Mr_Shiftright

Porsche considering ending diesel production

ruking1

If that is so, I'll add the Porsche Cayenne to my TDI shop list. I simply love how the VW Touareg handles (.85 g). There's front end suspension components that makes the Porsche Cayenne handle even better! (.94g.) it's amazing that either (mid size CUV) is in super car handling range!

We've got two local VW dealer appointments for affected 2009/2012 TDI's "turn ins " We had difficulty uploading required files via Apple? It was smooth sailing with Lenova windows? Go figure!?

There are all lot of CUV models based on the VW MLQ platform: Audi, Porsche, VW, to name a few.

The 2014 Mercedes Benz GLK 250 BT was checked out under warranty and nothing was found, i.e., front and differential leak. If anything happens out of warranty, @ least it has been documented @ the dealer. We are glad to have it back @ 48,000 miles. We are real happy with this compact CUV. It's easily a keep past 120,000 miles. U Service remains top notch @ the local MB dealership! its also great to have a few Indy shops a mile away!

It's really too bad the new GLC ( GLK 350/250 BT is the precursor model) does not have a diesel option !

ruking1

Well this is the MB PU truck with 4 diesel engine options that we can't get. http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/07/18/forbidden-fruit-mercedes-benz-x-class-pickup-is-ready-to-haul-in-style.html?ref=yfp

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Well this is the MB PU truck with 4 diesel engine options that we can't get. http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/07/18/forbidden-fruit-mercedes-benz-x-class-pickup-is-ready-to-haul-in-style.html?ref=yfp

FYI, that's a rebadged Nissan.

ruking1

It does say that in the article!

Michaell

ruking1 said:

It does say that in the article!

Continued product and component sharing between MB and Nissan.

ruking1

Since VW was one of the largest TDI vendors in US markets, before it left the TDI market, it had implemented (so called MLQ) platforms to more standardized, bring higher & more consistent quality & products, cost save, bring concept to market iterations faster, phase out less popular products faster, etc.

I'm sure also this platform process girds for even fewer auto OEM's in the not too distant future.

fintail

Shameless rebadge IMO, the Nissan roots are visible from space. I hope that one is fake news.

ruking1

This joint Nissan/MB project seems to be a case of MB getting caught both flat footed & not wanting to spend developmental costs in a market (PU truck) they've sworn off for years, but for a host of reasons, wanting one product. It seems to make more sense than MB buying all of Chrysler, not that long ago. MB did make a success of "TDI Sprinter (Dodge) vans" Nissan I'm sure has/had its own fish to fry in this partnership. So hopefully, it's a win-win.

fintail

The Sprinter vans were/are a MB design sold in Europe for years (predating Daimler-Chrysler) before coming here. The only Dodge connection was a badge.

There probably is a market for that pickup, for people who don't know what it is based on, or don't care. Badges mean a lot.

ruking1

It doesn't add to/change the original point. Whether one looks down on Nissan might be a whole other discussion. Evidently by your same metric, MB didn't have much to look up to in their MB PU truck product offering.

andres3

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what MB saw in Chrysler to want that merger to begin with! Maybe too much German beer was involved in the decision-making.

Michaell

andres3 said:

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what MB saw in Chrysler to want that merger to begin with! Maybe too much German beer was involved in the decision-making.

Read the book "Taken for a Ride", a detailed account of the MB-Chrysler merger.

In a nutshell, both CEO's believed that there was an impending consolidation of the companies in the automotive industry. Both companies looked to the other to fill a need - Chrysler looked to MB for a bigger international presence, and MB looked to Chrysler for it's (then) innovative "platform team" approach to development, plus the truck and SUV categories.

In the end, MB knew that this wasn't a merger - it was a takeover. Chrysler was a bit slow on the uptake, until it was too late.

ruking1

& NOW, it is (bigger & financially even less stable) Fiat Chrysler! ?

I'm not sure what the following means or HOW it will be processed, but I've read F/C is MINUS -$2,200 per car BEHIND related to 2025 standards, mpg & emissions. In contrast, VW, Toyota, etc are already @ par or better.

fintail

MB/Chrysler - revenge for 1945

ruking1

Now that is a funny perception, aka, coffee on computer screen variety!

Diesels !
https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-07-19/mercedes-tries-to-keep-diesel-alive?ref=yfp

Indeed, " getting rid" of diesels has been demonstrated (non starter, LA LA County land) to NOT clean up N0X !

Hybrids in LA County ( huge population) have had no measurable effect in N0X reduction!

Indeed, more than a few articles have indicated ( so called next gen) EV cars will NOT make a dent in the N0X issue! This is despite the feel good blather. But it's more of the issue "follow the money".

So if the MB 2.1 L BT twin turbo 369 # ft, 176 # ft per liter (OM 651) are going to be one of MB's last 4 cylinder diesel engines in the AM market, it's a keeper, given that issue alone! .

fintail

As expected, traffic was atrocious for yesterday's trip. 42 mpg per the car, still at least ~30% better than PUG.

ruking1

A post of 42 mpg diesel in the range of 40 to 45 mpg! So it would appear that my swag was totally in the target (swag) area!

andres3

Meanwhile I plod along at 28 MPG in the 1.6T Kia. However, this car was purchasable for $20K +TTL. I doubt any diesel or hybrid could go that cheap and be a bigger mid-size offering.

ruking1

Cost per miles driven: depreciation figures are really good metrics. I've posted both acquisition costs ($20,000) & cpmd: depreciation (2.09655 cents, buyback) . IF you'd care to run your numbers & compare, diesels, despite buyback are probably cheaper. Since there is no Kia like model diesel, diesel competitors are cited.

Operations wise, if a (competitor) Jetta/Passat TDI gets between 40 and 42 mpg, that 50% to 43% better mpg than a very good 28 mpg.

2015 FARS, NHTSA.com data of 11,000 miles to 14,000 miles per yr AVG has been posted. It's been the subject of many articles the average age of the passenger vehicle fleet is approximately 11.5 yrs old. So that is between 126,500 miles to 161,000 miles.

I really didn't get a chance to go over 67,000 miles on the 2012 VW Touareg. Closest calculation is that VW will have paid me 2.694 cents cpmd: fuel to drive the vehicle.

TMI

These (Volt hybrid, gasoline) GM small to midsize sedans might be great deals? ! Hhttp://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/21/gm-may-kill-6-car-models-as-it-works-with-uaw-to-tackle-sales-sl/?ref=yfp

I'm guessing the "MASSIVE" shift from small to large sedans to small to large CUV's puts pressure to offer diesel options.

fintail

I saw a diesel Colorado pulling a 5th wheel today.

I am sure that Kia is fine for what it is, might be hard to compare like for like with a premium brand with premium materials, build quality, and of course, badge.

ruking1

Kia/Hyundai seem to be very serious (South Korean) auto OEM's ! They like to do good quality & constant improvement! I'm sure a non American market diesel is well integrated, if a diesel option I'd offered.

gagrice

fintail said:

I saw a diesel Colorado pulling a 5th wheel today.

I am sure that Kia is fine for what it is, might be hard to compare like for like with a premium brand with premium materials, build quality, and of course, badge.

The diesel Colorado is rated at 7700 lbs towing. Same as our Touareg TDI. Longer wheelbase makes the PU a better choice for towing. Fuelly has the Colorado/Canyon diesels averaging 25 MPG overall. A far cry better than my Nissan Frontier averaging 15 MPG. With the unknown ethanol content in most RUG, I think diesel is a safer choice. I have to wonder if when they test vehicles for the EPA, do they use pure RUG with no ethanol to get the better mileage figures?

kyfdx

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

gagrice

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

kyfdx

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

houdini1

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Michaell

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

fintail

I've always assumed EPA figures assumed an idiot driver who can't keep an even pace and even throttle input. I've had no problem exceeding EPA figures in every gasoline and diesel car I have driven, and I am not a slow driver.

gagrice said:

<
The diesel Colorado is rated at 7700 lbs towing. Same as our Touareg TDI. Longer wheelbase makes the PU a better choice for towing. Fuelly has the Colorado/Canyon diesels averaging 25 MPG overall. A far cry better than my Nissan Frontier averaging 15 MPG. With the unknown ethanol content in most RUG, I think diesel is a safer choice. I have to wonder if when they test vehicles for the EPA, do they use pure RUG with no ethanol to get the better mileage figures?

ruking1

It hasn't been that simple for @ least a couple of decades!? Six signpost scenarios come to mind:

1. the 2003/2004 Toyota Prius hybrid 60 mpgC /50 H (40-43 mpg actual) brouhaha

2. EPA change of mpg ratings protocol to make it far more lenient for hybrids to "game" the very system it's not supposed to game

3. A consumer (who happened to be an attorney) taking & winning against Honda (Accord) in CA Small Claims Court

4. The setting aside of the CA SCC verdict to save the EPA/CARB authority & proably saving $ M's in CA SCC lawsuits.

5. These types of lawsuits coul now be either class action lawsuits &/or in FED courts. This would save $B's if not more!

6. EPA/CARB mpg protocols are actual protocols which are largely NOT transparent! I doubt the Honda case could have been won in CA SCC IF they were. All Honda had to do was to run the plaintiffs car through a certified mpg protocol! Bata bing bata boom ase thrown out. Bill the plantiff for the test! We of course now know that EPA/car barely even checks them!

gagrice

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

Michaell

gagrice said:

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

I had a chance to ride along with a friend who test drove a diesel Canyon a couple weeks ago; he drove it back to back with a V6 version. The V6 pulled better; I think that because the diesel is only a 4-cyl, it didn't have a whole lot of grunt.

And, the diesel version is something like $5K more. Hard to justify.

gagrice

Michaell said:

gagrice said:

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

I had a chance to ride along with a friend who test drove a diesel Canyon a couple weeks ago; he drove it back to back with a V6 version. The V6 pulled better; I think that because the diesel is only a 4-cyl, it didn't have a whole lot of grunt.

And, the diesel version is something like $5K more. Hard to justify.

Not at all hard for me to justify. First off I have not worried about 0-60 times since I was a teenager. Second the Canyon diesel is rated higher towing than the V6 gasser. Third it is the 50-80 MPH times for passing on two lane roads that is my interest. Fourth I want the range only diesel offers. I have done better at resale time with diesels.
Just a side note. In Hawaii even Costco offered REAL RUG at a premium over that Ethanol tainted crap we are forced to use in California. Never have gotten to do a comparison. Must be a reason people will pay more to eliminate that nasty stuff in our gas. GM says B20 is approved for their diesels. Many stations in Oregon only have B20, like Safeway and Shell. Will give it a try for sure, as it is cheaper than ULSD in Oregon.

fintail

MB always did it right, the diesel was marginally cheaper than the gasser.

ruking1

Michaell said:

gagrice said:

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

I had a chance to ride along with a friend who test drove a diesel Canyon a couple weeks ago; he drove it back to back with a V6 version. The V6 pulled better; I think that because the diesel is only a 4-cyl, it didn't have a whole lot of grunt.

And, the diesel version is something like $5K more. Hard to justify.

I bet you'd never guess which has more torque: 369# ft vs 275# ft? You & your cohort both chose 3.5 L V6 275# ft over 2.8 L 4 cylinder 369# ft as the more powerful?! MINUS- 94 # ft, & with two more cylinders 25% more L.

TMI

B20 has WAY more lubricity than ULSD!

fintail

Trip back this morning was much more pleasant even with a couple long construction stop-and-go slowdowns, as traffic in general was lighter. Per the car, 45.2 mpg, that's with the AC on more than half the time.

andres3

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:

gagrice said:

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

I had a chance to ride along with a friend who test drove a diesel Canyon a couple weeks ago; he drove it back to back with a V6 version. The V6 pulled better; I think that because the diesel is only a 4-cyl, it didn't have a whole lot of grunt.

And, the diesel version is something like $5K more. Hard to justify.

I bet you'd never guess which has more torque: 369# ft vs 275# ft? You & your cohort both chose 3.5 L V6 275# ft over 2.8 L 4 cylinder 369# ft as the more powerful?! MINUS- 94 # ft, & with two more cylinders 25% more L.

TMI

B20 has WAY more lubricity than ULSD!

Torque is good, but HP does matter. I suppose a 50-80 acceleration test would have to be done on both engines to see who the true winner is. Maybe one unloaded, another fully loaded.

Speaking of gassers, the Alltrack 1.8T performed admirably in a trip up and through the Big Bear Mountains in Southern CA. The car handles great, on both smooth pavement (rare for Caltrans), and on some minor off-roading excursions where we tested the Alltracks ruggedness a bit.

Heck, even a guy in a Jeep going the other direction waved at me in approval for taking the Alltrack where it belongs This was a road even regular 2WD compact cars could go, but highly unrecommended. There was a section where the road narrows into a one way section where you can see from above, and wait your turn. Well, two slow moving compact 2WD vehicles crawled their way through, while a Subaru and I waited and then finally proceeded about 4X faster though the same section of unpaved road.

I used the "off road" drive mode. Seemed to keep the brakes on more than anything when going from a standing start (hill assist-like),,but perhaps it makes it less FWD biased and more RWD engaged. Need further testing.

It was certainly far more comfortable on off-road undulations than my S4 was during my AZ off-road adventure. That one knocked some tooth fillings out.

On the way home, I took the curvy scenic route that goes up and down several times (Hwy 38), including a 8,443 summit climb (Onyx Pass), Averaged 32 MPG in an AWD vehicle with 3 people and lots of luggage inside it. That's 32 MPG with regular 87 Octane Costco CA unleaded gas. AC was on all the time too; I'm happy with that.

ruking1

As we've been saying....& vastly more importantly the CA governor has signed into law : no smog checks !!??http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/24/why-californias-most-polluting-vehicles-arent-required-to-get-smog-checks-9/?ref=yfp!

fintail

Gotta be business friendly, LOLOL

99%+++ of the smoky diesels I see are trucks, and most of them are lighter duty than a semi.

gagrice

andres3 said:

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:

gagrice said:

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

kyfdx said:

gagrice said:

kyfdx said:

Our new Tacoma with the tow package is rated at 6400 lbs.

I would keep my Nissan Frontier over a Tacoma. Checked out both when I bought. It is 10 times the truck that my Ranger PU was. I am ready for a small diesel PU, so it looks like GM will get my cash.

I pay $265/mo. for a $35K MSRP truck, though..

Here is another advantage the Tacoma has. I sold my 2003 Tacoma in 2013 for $10,500. It only had 140,000 miles on it. 4-door, 4-WD.

Here is a good article:

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/i-cant-believe-people-are-paying-this-much-for-used-toy-1797112721

I would be happy to get $8k for my 2008 Frontier with only 66k miles on it. Runs fine, just put a new set of Bridgestone tires on it. If Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma, I would give them a shot. I will NEVER buy another gas powered vehicle.

I had a chance to ride along with a friend who test drove a diesel Canyon a couple weeks ago; he drove it back to back with a V6 version. The V6 pulled better; I think that because the diesel is only a 4-cyl, it didn't have a whole lot of grunt.

And, the diesel version is something like $5K more. Hard to justify.

I bet you'd never guess which has more torque: 369# ft vs 275# ft? You & your cohort both chose 3.5 L V6 275# ft over 2.8 L 4 cylinder 369# ft as the more powerful?! MINUS- 94 # ft, & with two more cylinders 25% more L.

TMI

B20 has WAY more lubricity than ULSD!

Torque is good, but HP does matter. I suppose a 50-80 acceleration test would have to be done on both engines to see who the true winner is. Maybe one unloaded, another fully loaded.

Speaking of gassers, the Alltrack 1.8T performed admirably in a trip up and through the Big Bear Mountains in Southern CA. The car handles great, on both smooth pavement (rare for Caltrans), and on some minor off-roading excursions where we tested the Alltracks ruggedness a bit.

Heck, even a guy in a Jeep going the other direction waved at me in approval for taking the Alltrack where it belongs This was a road even regular 2WD compact cars could go, but highly unrecommended. There was a section where the road narrows into a one way section where you can see from above, and wait your turn. Well, two slow moving compact 2WD vehicles crawled their way through, while a Subaru and I waited and then finally proceeded about 4X faster though the same section of unpaved road.

I used the "off road" drive mode. Seemed to keep the brakes on more than anything when going from a standing start (hill assist-like),,but perhaps it makes it less FWD biased and more RWD engaged. Need further testing.

It was certainly far more comfortable on off-road undulations than my S4 was during my AZ off-road adventure. That one knocked some tooth fillings out.

On the way home, I took the curvy scenic route that goes up and down several times (Hwy 38), including a 8,443 summit climb (Onyx Pass), Averaged 32 MPG in an AWD vehicle with 3 people and lots of luggage inside it. That's 32 MPG with regular 87 Octane Costco CA unleaded gas. AC was on all the time too; I'm happy with that.

I love that highway 38 drive out of Big Bear to Forest Falls. I have not been up there since Forest Falls was washed away a few years ago.

ruking1

I'm keeping my mind open to what the local VW dealer might offer (new & used) when I turn in the 2 buybacks. The ALL track Golf does not get use through the ad hoc 4WD Caltrans winter chain controls points. The latest model year VW Touareg is a (unremarkable [Edmunds.com ] ) conventional V6. 19-22 mpg PUG is really not appealing after 32-35 mpg.ULSD.

We might just put the extra miles on the MB GLK 250 BT. Doing that means two less registrations, taxations, insurances, & upkeep!

andres3

ruking1 said:

I'm keeping my mind open to what the local VW dealer might offer (new & used) when I turn in the 2 buybacks. The ALL track Golf does not get use through the ad hoc 4WD Caltrans winter chain controls points. The latest model year VW Touareg is a (unremarkable [Edmunds.com ] ) conventional V6. 19-22 mpg PUG is really not appealing after 32-35 mpg.ULSD.

We might just put the extra miles on the MB GLK 250 BT. It's two less registrations, taxations, insurance, & upkeep!

Whats the rule on chains if you already have snow tires and AWD your good to go, or are chains sometimes required? The Alltrack just came out with the '17 models in the US, and I don't think they are selling a ton of them; helped to get a killer deal on one!