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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    qbrozen said:

    Warning: the BMS will void your warranty. Unless the dealers have started offering it, which would shock me.

    I had the BMS stage 1 on my 320 and never had an issue, I'm not worrying about the JB4.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    stickguy said:

    sounds like the car I would look at later in the year (the service loaner lease part). What did the before tax payment end up being on that?

    I rolled some negative cash from the 320 into this new car, the value of the 320 was falling, and wasn't going to get better.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited June 2017

    qbrozen said:

    Warning: the BMS will void your warranty. Unless the dealers have started offering it, which would shock me.

    I had the BMS stage 1 on my 320 and never had an issue, I'm not worrying about the JB4.
    Question is if it will void your warranty. And the answer is yes. At least as far as damage that may be related to it, such as the entire drivetrain.

    The BS about it being "undetectable" is just that. That was proven to me firsthand by my service advisor.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    qbrozen said:

    qbrozen said:

    Warning: the BMS will void your warranty. Unless the dealers have started offering it, which would shock me.

    I had the BMS stage 1 on my 320 and never had an issue, I'm not worrying about the JB4.
    Question is if it will void your warranty. And the answer is yes. At least as far as damage that may be related to it, such as the entire drivetrain.

    The BS about it being "undetectable" is just that. That was proven to me firsthand by my service advisor.
    The trick is finding a dealership and service advisers that ignore a TD1 flagging.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Mine was good about it and helped me get things fixed but he did say if the engine blows, for example, there isn't much they can do because corporate will inspect the computer and find out.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    qbrozen said:



    Question is if it will void your warranty. And the answer is yes. At least as far as damage that may be related to it, such as the entire drivetrain.

    The BS about it being "undetectable" is just that. That was proven to me firsthand by my service advisor.

    There is always a change but my 320 and Ricks 328 hasn't had an issue, I don't plan on pushing more than the tune.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Boy did this forum die....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Along with the sedan...

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,145
    In the interest of reviving this thread, I pose a hypothetical.

    In 2-3 years I could be in the market for a CPO ELLPS - what do you recommend?

    Audi A4
    BMW 3-series
    MB C-class
    Something else?

    Figure I'd be looking at 2017 or 2018 MY.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    edited October 2017
    Q50
    S60

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Michaell said:

    In the interest of reviving this thread, I pose a hypothetical.

    In 2-3 years I could be in the market for a CPO ELLPS - what do you recommend?

    Audi A4
    BMW 3-series
    MB C-class
    Something else?

    Figure I'd be looking at 2017 or 2018 MY.

    Drive them all and buy what YOU like. I want a RWD, car, so that biases my choices

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    C class is really really nice.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,145
    stickguy said:

    C class is really really nice.

    Yeah, I've been admiring them lately.

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  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    edited October 2017
    You pretty much can’t go wrong with all of the above. The only thing I have against a 3-Series is that they haven’t changed much, and the interior has remained essentially the same through the years. Still wouldn’t throw it out of bed for eating crackers. It’s all personal choice.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    carnaught said:

    You pretty much can’t go wrong with all of the above. The only thing I have against a 3-Series is that they haven’t changed much, and the interior has remained essentially the same through the years. Still wouldn’t throw it out of bed for eating crackers. It’s all personal choice.

    Your statement is completely wrong, The 3 series has changed where it was needed, with the new B46 engine I feel it is a lot more fun to drive as the torque is lower in the rev band. The small changes to the interior and iDrive software has been an improvement.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    edited October 2017
    @flightnurse, no doubt that the 3-Series BMW’s are being improved. With regard to my expressed opinion, I’m talking about looks. I know you’re BMW guy; no offense intended.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    I just bought 2018 430i Gran Coupe. Keen eye would see subtle difference with the 330 sedan, but from a distance they both look similar. BMW has made a decent progress in addressing my largest complaint, i.e. steering wheel and suspension feel. It's not quite as heavy as my previous 2018 328, but it got to the area where it's no longer Buick. The interior is improved, the stitched plastic dashboard cover is a nice touch. One thing that feels really old and tired, are the speedometer and odometer. Almost the same as they were 10 years ago, which were almost the same as those 10 years prior that. I even joke that those BMW designers obsess about their engine, transmission and everything else, then three weeks before launch they suddenly realize that they need a new dashboard, so they stick the old one, again.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    carnaught said:

    @flightnurse, no doubt that the 3-Series BMW’s are being improved. With regard to my expressed opinion, I’m talking about looks. I know you’re BMW guy; no offense intended.

    When it comes to looks, you can tell BMW is playing it safe, the look is evolution and bold and in your face like what Acura had done to the TL, I think the BMW is a handsome sedan. I'm not 100% sold on the new C class but like the looks of the A4.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    dino001 said:

    I just bought 2018 430i Gran Coupe. Keen eye would see subtle difference with the 330 sedan, but from a distance they both look similar. BMW has made a decent progress in addressing my largest complaint, i.e. steering wheel and suspension feel. It's not quite as heavy as my previous 2018 328, but it got to the area where it's no longer Buick. The interior is improved, the stitched plastic dashboard cover is a nice touch. One thing that feels really old and tired, are the speedometer and odometer. Almost the same as they were 10 years ago, which were almost the same as those 10 years prior that. I even joke that those BMW designers obsess about their engine, transmission and everything else, then three weeks before launch they suddenly realize that they need a new dashboard, so they stick the old one, again.

    Congrats on the 430, so you went with the 8 Spd auto, how you like it? I'm still leaning towards a 440 GC next.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    edited October 2017
    I went with auto, cause there wasn't anything else available with GC. When I was preparing to change from my wagon, I made peace with AT as my next transmissions already some time ago. I decided that the form factor (body type) with equipment and color were more important than the transmission. The transmission is alright - very responsive, efficient, seamless. It isn't manual, but it will do.

    I thought I wanted 435, then 440 GC all that time until I spent some good time with the 430/330, got to play with the sport/sport+ modes and became convinced to keep the money, both in the purchase and at the pump. For me it's good enough. I think I'm already past the "got to have the horses" stage. There is minimum I want/need, of course, probably higher than the market average, but 430 is quite enough.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • pensfan83pensfan83 Member Posts: 2,538
    Aside from a 3 year stint with the Fusion I've had a manual for the better part of the last 15 years, granted not as long as some here but long enough that was very accustomed to the enjoyment of rowing my own gears. I lucked out in 2014 when it came to the A4 however this time my dealer had no manual A4's in stock and no immediate plans to order any, my salesman said they sell on average less than 4-5 per year and most times they sit waiting for a buyers like folks on this board, who are becoming rarer by the day. Like @dino001 I resigned myself to the fact the next car was going to be an auto, which opened up many more options because finding a manual entry level luxury car is like finding hen's teeth. It did also open up another vehicle for my wife to drive, who was confined to her Altima the last 3 years.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    edited October 2017
    I've come to the point where I prefer manuals in cars that really need one- those with engines that need to be wound out to make significant power, like my Club Sport. With engines that make peak torque from 1300-4500 rpm-such as the N55 and B58-I prefer theZF 8HP; it shifts quickly, rev matches, and has a true manual mode.
    That said, I'm not all that enamored by the DCTs in the M cars; if I was going to replace my M235i; I'd go with an M240i if I wanted two pedals and an M2 if I wanted three...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's my feeling. If you don't need to work the stick, then don't buy the stick.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    Michaell, since shopping is free and fun, and you never know which dealer will have free food!, why not visit your local Jag dealer too, and check out the XE? Good driving from what I've read, interior may not be up to snuff (more performance than lux). But, only you can decide what floats your boat.

    Re: BMW, its Motor Works, not Style Works (roughly translated).

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,031

    Michaell, since shopping is free and fun, and you never know which dealer will have free food!

    That is something that sadly has gone away here in recent years. There was one GM dealer in particular that always had free food on offer. It changed ownership and that is now gone.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    we looked at a used Jag XF (2013) Wednesday. Wife was not impressed by the interior (I found the seats fantastic, her less so, but mostly because is was that odd orange color). But the part she found oddest was when I finally figured out how to put the AC on, and the vents rotated open and close. Just seems like a solution to a problem that did not exist, and one more thing to break (expensively).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729

    I've come to the point where I prefer manuals in cars that really need one- those with engines that need to be wound out to make significant power, like my Club Sport. With engines that make peak torque from 1300-4500 rpm-such as the N55 and B58-I prefer theZF 8HP; it shifts quickly, rev matches, and has a true manual mode.
    That said, I'm not all that enamored by the DCTs in the M cars; if I was going to replace my M235i; I'd go with an M240i if I wanted two pedals and an M2 if I wanted three...

    I don't have any experience with BMW's DCT's. I heard the early ones a long time ago were lackluster to put it nicely, but I thought they had made vast improvements? What would be your "complaint" list on the current crop of the latest and greatest DCT's from BMW?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    They are okay onde you are on the move, but they are a bit laggy at low speeds and when shifting from forward to reverse.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • john4545john4545 Member Posts: 136
    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    I'd imagine if the Mazda 6 was given an upgraded wheel/tire size it would hang as long as horsepower was previously agreed to not be used.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.

    Check out this review - it might.

    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2017/10/first-drive-2018-kia-rio/

    Best of all, there’s a lot more driving fun than you’d expect in an entry-level scooter, especially considering its front struts, rear torsion beam setup. Its progressive and predictable in its behavior, so much so, you might wonder when the hot hatch variant will arrive, something you would never say of a Kia Rio in past form.
    It lacks the expected Korean floatiness and excessive brake dive, even at extremes. Take a corner too fast, brake hard and crank the wheel and the Rio will scrub off speed while maintaining way more grip than you’d come to expect. Credit the car’s rigid structure; the suspension pieces themselves are nothing special.


    When it comes to tech, Kia has you covered with Bluetooth, a six-speaker stereo with satellite radio and a rear-view camera system, seven-inch touchscreen infotainment system with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Standard safety features include six airbags, side-impact door beams, electronic stability control, anti-lock brakes, hill-start assist and vehicle stability management.

    There's a brand new 2018 Kia Rio5 over at George Gee Kia in Spokane Valley, WA, selling for $14,795. 6-speed stick model.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Probably closer than you think if the 330i has the base suspension. If the 3er has the M Sport or the Adaptive M Suspension all bets are off. Neither car is a rocket sled, but the with a 0-60 in the mid-fives and a fourteen second quarter mile 330i is about 0.5 seconds quicker than the Mazda. The 330i will likely return better fuel economy, especially if equipped wit the superb ZF 8HP automatic.

    I don't like FWD in anything larger than a Mini Cooper, so I'd go with the 330i- in RWD of course.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312

    Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.

    Check out this review - it might.

    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2017/10/first-drive-2018-kia-rio/

    Best of all, there’s a lot more driving fun than you’d expect in an entry-level scooter, especially considering its front struts, rear torsion beam setup. Its progressive and predictable in its behavior, so much so, you might wonder when the hot hatch variant will arrive, something you would never say of a Kia Rio in past form.
    It lacks the expected Korean floatiness and excessive brake dive, even at extremes. Take a corner too fast, brake hard and crank the wheel and the Rio will scrub off speed while maintaining way more grip than you’d come to expect. Credit the car’s rigid structure; the suspension pieces themselves are nothing special.


    When it comes to tech, Kia has you covered with Bluetooth, a six-speaker stereo with satellite radio and a rear-view camera system, seven-inch touchscreen infotainment system with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Standard safety features include six airbags, side-impact door beams, electronic stability control, anti-lock brakes, hill-start assist and vehicle stability management.

    There's a brand new 2018 Kia Rio5 over at George Gee Kia in Spokane Valley, WA, selling for $14,795. 6-speed stick model.

    That does it- the 2er and 3er are going on Craigslist and I'm headed to the Kia Store!!!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited October 2017

    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.

    Getting the upgraded :):) 15 wheels on a fire red Rio may help in the agility tests.

    Buick Regal GS vs Mazda6 might be a better square off. The New 2018 Regal is updated and refreshed this year. Lets see if GM builds on some previous model positives . Regal's 2.0- turbo accelerated 0 to 60 mph in 7.2 sec. The Rio just may give it a run for its money down a straightaway

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Probably closer than you think if the 330i has the base suspension. If the 3er has the M Sport or the Adaptive M Suspension all bets are off. Neither car is a rocket sled, but the with a 0-60 in the mid-fives and a fourteen second quarter mile 330i is about 0.5 seconds quicker than the Mazda. The 330i will likely return better fuel economy, especially if equipped wit the superb ZF 8HP automatic.

    I don't like FWD in anything larger than a Mini Cooper, so I'd go with the 330i- in RWD of course.
    Agree .. my neighbor's kid has the mazda6 which has 19's. I'm not a mazda6 fan but the handling on this Mazda is excellent

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    brian125 said:

    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Probably closer than you think if the 330i has the base suspension. If the 3er has the M Sport or the Adaptive M Suspension all bets are off. Neither car is a rocket sled, but the with a 0-60 in the mid-fives and a fourteen second quarter mile 330i is about 0.5 seconds quicker than the Mazda. The 330i will likely return better fuel economy, especially if equipped wit the superb ZF 8HP automatic.

    I don't like FWD in anything larger than a Mini Cooper, so I'd go with the 330i- in RWD of course.
    Agree .. my neighbor's kid has the mazda6 which has 19's. I'm not a mazda6 fan but the handling on this Mazda is excellent

    I had a Mazdaspeed 3 and I really liked it. My wife may well end up getting a CX-3 in a year or two. Mazda is my favorite of all the Asian brands; I actually put off replacing my Mazdaspeed3 for a year in hopes that the rumored 300hp AWD Mazdaspeed3 was coming to market. No such luck...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    john4545 said:

    Mazda6 handling vs BMW 330 . Does Mazda6 have a leg to stand on?? Love to see the 6 in a manual? I thought the 17 Mazda's handling was superb

    Why not wonder if a Kia Rio handles just as good as a 330i.
    In the right hands......
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Bingo, shifty!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,145

    Bingo, shifty!

    Yet I get the feeling we've strayed a bit off topic this last day or two.

    Anybody in the market for an ELLPS?

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    Not any longer! Though my looking supported a theory of mine. This class is hurting, because the competition from below is fierce. Mainstream cars, for much less money, that are so good already that the extra money is hard to justify for many people. Especially in the smaller models.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    stickguy said:

    Not any longer! Though my looking supported a theory of mine. This class is hurting, because the competition from below is fierce. Mainstream cars, for much less money, that are so good already that the extra money is hard to justify for many people. Especially in the smaller models.

    Also prices have continued to skyrocket in ELLPS. I know what I bought my Audi A4 for in 1998, and I'm not gonna spend my money on their current prices. So ELLPS is more or less out of what I want to pay.

    However there are some decently compelling "mundane" cars that can be loaded up to levels that approach (and sometimes exceed) ELLPS. If you want the badge then you go ELLPS. If you want much of the actual benefit and to save some cash, then dropping down a market notch is not a bad idea.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    stickguy said:

    we looked at a used Jag XF (2013) Wednesday. Wife was not impressed by the interior (I found the seats fantastic, her less so, but mostly because is was that odd orange color). But the part she found oddest was when I finally figured out how to put the AC on, and the vents rotated open and close. Just seems like a solution to a problem that did not exist, and one more thing to break (expensively).

    That's the fun of shopping, looking, smelling, tasting, trying on, driving... Funny, seats, while comfortable, have kinda short bottom cushion for my taste. Gotten used to/adjusted, so no worries. Maybe the one you looked at had the upgraded seats? I have standard black interior, not my first choice, but when you're buying from inventory on New Year's Eve, variety is not your spice of life! I like the overall interior, a bit too much aluminum staring me in the face for my taste, but enough wood to keep me warm.

    The rotating vents are a cool feature....the first couple of times you see 'em. You can easily program them to stay open, which I will do as soon as the warranty expires!

    Drove into Boston for dinner/show Saturday night. Parking garage, didn't realize until I was all the way in that it was valet only. The attendant told me no worries, they always take special care of Jags! Uh, huh.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    well, my pending Elantra sport is an interesting example, compared to my son's A3. Not as many gizmos (his is loaded). But similar size, comparable performance (short of Quattro), many same features. similar ride and handling. Less prestigious badge. But for most people, not a huge difference. Other than price, which was a full $20,000 cheaper.

    put another way, you can get so much car for 20-25K now, that justifying 40-50k is hard (assuming you even have the budget to pull it off!)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,145
    edited October 2017
    stickguy said:

    well, my pending Elantra sport is an interesting example, compared to my son's A3. Not as many gizmos (his is loaded). But similar size, comparable performance (short of Quattro), many same features. similar ride and handling. Less prestigious badge. But for most people, not a huge difference. Other than price, which was a full $20,000 cheaper.

    put another way, you can get so much car for 20-25K now, that justifying 40-50k is hard (assuming you even have the budget to pull it off!)

    Interesting - forgot about the A3 in your family. A longer term comparison will be interesting. Gotta have your son drive the Hyundai and offer his opinion. Better yet, let him take it to NY and drive it for a month (when the weather is nicer).

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    If you want a RWD sport sedan the mainstream brands really don't offer any competition- although the Genesis G80/G90 and the KIA Stinger are notable exceptions. If you don't care which wheels are driven and simply want a wide assortment of gadgets then a bread and butter sedan may well be the way to go.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    stickguy said:

    well, my pending Elantra sport is an interesting example, compared to my son's A3. Not as many gizmos (his is loaded). But similar size, comparable performance (short of Quattro), many same features. similar ride and handling. Less prestigious badge. But for most people, not a huge difference. Other than price, which was a full $20,000 cheaper.

    put another way, you can get so much car for 20-25K now, that justifying 40-50k is hard (assuming you even have the budget to pull it off!)

    But is it really comparable?

    220 HP vs. 201 hp for the Hyundai
    Torque disparity is larger I believe if I'm not mistaken.
    24/33 MPG vs. 26/33 for the Hyundai; now that's close, but the Audi engine is 20% bigger.
    Car and Driver is posting 5.4 0-60 time for A3 Quattro, with 129 MPH Top Speed

    Wasn't able to find figures on the Elantra Sport (too many trims).

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,145
    andres3 said:

    stickguy said:

    well, my pending Elantra sport is an interesting example, compared to my son's A3. Not as many gizmos (his is loaded). But similar size, comparable performance (short of Quattro), many same features. similar ride and handling. Less prestigious badge. But for most people, not a huge difference. Other than price, which was a full $20,000 cheaper.

    put another way, you can get so much car for 20-25K now, that justifying 40-50k is hard (assuming you even have the budget to pull it off!)

    But is it really comparable?

    220 HP vs. 201 hp for the Hyundai
    Torque disparity is larger I believe if I'm not mistaken.
    24/33 MPG vs. 26/33 for the Hyundai; now that's close, but the Audi engine is 20% bigger.
    Car and Driver is posting 5.4 0-60 time for A3 Quattro, with 129 MPH Top Speed

    Wasn't able to find figures on the Elantra Sport (too many trims).

    I think the point is you can get 80% (or more) of the performance and features for 50% of the price.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    yes, pretty much. The incremental improvement costs a whole lotta money.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that's the whole marketing scheme isn't it? To dangle a few extra baubles in front of the consumer so that he upgrades? I mean, isn't advertising about making you dissatisfied with what you already own? Certainly, that seems to drive the leasing of ELLPS, at any rate.
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